Leicester Tigers 2016/17 thread.

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :

2016/17:
Director of Rugby: Richard Cockerill
Head Coach: Aaron Mauger
Assistant Backs Coach: Geordan Murphy
Assistant Forward Coach: Richard Blaze
Defence and Scrum Half Coach: Scott Hansen
Head of Rugby Operations: Ged Glynn
Team manager: Matt Cornwall

2016/17 Senior Squad: (Confirmed So Far) (Blue = EQP)
Hookers: Bateman, McGuigan, Thacker, Youngs
Props: Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara Cilliers, Cole, Genge, Mulipola, Rizzo
Locks: Barrow, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
Back Row: Croft, Fonua, Hamilton McCaffrey, O'Connor, Williams
Scrum Half: Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
Fly Half: Burns, Williams
Centre: Catchpole, Roberts, Smith, Toomua, Tuilagi
Back 3: Betham, Brady, Pieterson, Tait, Thompstone, Veainu
Squad number: 37, EQP: 24, Academy products: 8

Transfers
IN: (7)
McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons), Cilliers (Montpelier), Genge (Bristol), Hamilton (Agen), Toomua (ACT Brumbies). JP Pieterson (Sharks), Brady (Sale)

OUT: (12)
Ghiraldini (Toulouse), Pasquali (Treviso), De Chaves (London Irish), Crane (Bristol), Pearce (Sale), Bell (London Irish), Baikeinuku (retirement), De Villiers (Retirement), Benjamin (retirement), Morris (N/A), Camacho (N/A), Goneva (Newcastle Falcons)

Not Sure: (No official confirmation of leaving or Staying) 3
Aguero, Sio Loamanu,

Rumours:
Harry Wells (Bedford) Lock/6

2016/17 Development Squad: (15)
Bryant, Evans, Hills, Lewis, Mahoney, Maksymiw, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Owen, Simmons, Thacker, Tuilagi, White, Worth, Yawayawa

Transfer
IN: (7)
Lewis, Mahoney, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Simmons, White, Yawayawa

OUT: 11
Odogwu (sale), Beckett (Glous), Povoas (Coventry), Tresidder (Rotherham Titans), Douglas, Farnworth, Galletly, Hogan, Murrin, Nairn, Priestley-Nangle.


Academy
Academy Head Coach/forwards Coach: Brett Deacon
Academy Backs Coach: Anthony Allen

[formerly known as Sam]

Wells and Rizzo also staying.

Looks like our policy is now just to retain everybody we can.

[Geordie]

Not sure about Tait, but keeping the other 3 is good - particularly wee Harry.

Do you think he'll be a 7?

And Wells looks promising.

[Welly]

Wells and Rizzo also staying.

Looks like our policy is now just to retain everybody we can.

Makes some sense though the last 2/3/4 seasons we have been having a squad turnover of 10+ players leaving and coming.

Rizzo has been great this season and with Marcos future up in the air is an important re-signing.

Tait I can live with, contract will be reduced he will prob focus on 13 aswell, which doesn't hamper our academy players (Thacker to me is a 12 IMO). He is also a good example of an player recovering from a string of horrible injuries.

[Big]

With regards to Tait, it really depends on how much of a chunk he is taking from the salary cap. He is a useful utility player, and if he is being paid as such then there is no issue in my view and I'm glad we've kept him.

I'm hoping we'll see more of Harry at 7 - for some strange reason I feel compelled to like opensides that are deemed to be 'too small'. I guess it depends how MOC sees him, which is anyone's guess at the moment but hopefully we'll find out soon.

[formerly known as Sam]

I like Harry because he is abrasive, hard working and skillful. His ability to bounce through tackles when he absolutely no right to do so is also an endearing trait.

Tait, I think we could have recruited other utility options who aren't prone to missing tackles and who haven't lost their pace. I like the guy but his time at the top level in England has passed. Really he should be replaced in the squad by Worth with Holmes additional cover at 15 and wing. We need another centre to come in anyway woth Roberts off.

[king_carlos]

Harry re-signing is the one that I've been waiting for. Hopefully it's long term! I think the lad has huge potential at 7 and him rotating with Evans would be awesome.

Wells deserves his extension. His game has improved so much after an extended spell in the Championship. His more permanent move to Bedford is one that other academy grads should copy to prevent their progress stalling.

I agree with Big on Tait. If the salary fits his squad role then I'm happy to have him here. He knows the club well and is good with the younger players by all accounts. He's a guy that should transition into coaching very well if he wants to. I expect we will see him more at centre than full back from now on with TV showing his class there and Worth coming through. Everything has gone quiet on it now but also, Mike Brown?

[formerly known as Sam]

We've signed the Yorkshire wing/fullback Holmes who by all accounts has plenty of gas and a very healthy tries to games ratio.

[screamingaddabs]

So has O'Conner arrived now?

What kind of changes can we expect before the end of the season in terms of playing style and team selection? I guess he won't have time to change too much in the tactics.

[formerly known as Sam]

MOC's previous tenure showed a cohesive attacking approach which meant our forwards and backs were well integrated. Where it fell down was that we lacked any real guile and we're often a little predictable against the top level teams. So expect greater integration between forwards and backs to be the most obvious change with a fairly direct game plan.

[king_carlos]

MOC will need to add some more variety to his attacking game plan without the explosiveness of Manu and Alesana, amongst others to fall back on.

I'm not expecting too many changes in the short term to be honest. I could see Owen Williams being used at 12 as a second playmaker and kicking option in the short term. I'm not a fan of OW at 12 but I'd be on board with the second kicking option for the Bath game on the HQ pitch. Youngs-Burns-Williams would be a good axis to control field position with.

Genge, Youngs, Cole, Barrow, Kitchener, Williams, O'Connor, McCaffery
Youngs, Burns, Pietersen, Williams, Mermoz, Thompstone, Veainu

Reps: McGuigan, Rizzo, Cilliers, Fitzgerald, Hamilton, Kitto, Roberts, Tait

I could see something like that running out at HQ. Second fly half gives tactical kicking and Locky adds pace around the big pitch.

[Geordie]

No wee Harry?

[king_carlos]

I'd have him on the bench covering back row but I can't see MOC do so against Bath in his first game in charge.

It would be harsh on Hamilton because he's been good at 8 but I'd prefer 2 opensides in the back row against Louw and Faletau at HQ. O'Connor and McCaffery starting with Harry coming on for either would challenge breakdown excellently and gives us link play in attack.

[formerly known as Sam]

BOC and Burns left the field with head knocks vs Saints. It's not definite either will be fit. BOC was lucky to leave under a HIA given the three penalties he conceded in less than five minutes two of which were cynical and 5m out. The introduction of McCaffery helped us and considering how well Thacker played the week before I know which two I'd look to.

Mermoz and Roberts in the centre for me as well. Maybe Smith if we need someone to man mark Joseph.

[Welly]

Got to say watching them go head to head Ford completely outplayed Burns and Williams.
I am getting worried about Burns cramp issues he seems to get them every game wonder if it is him or our training.

So team next season looking like IMO from what i have heard.
1) Genge, Ayerza, Rizzo, (Hills)
2) Youngs, McGuigan
3) Cole, Mulipola, Cilliers, Bateman (Betts) (Heyes)
4) Barrow, Kitchener, (Lewis)
5) Slater, Fitzgeral, Wells, (Maksymiw)
6) Williams, Croft, (Fenner)
7) O'Connor, Evans, Thacker (Reffell)
8) Kalamafoni, Hamilton, McCaffrey (Grahamslaw)
9) Youngs, Harrison, Kitto, (White) (Simmons)
10) Ford, Ford, (Hardwick)
11) JPP, Betham, Holmes (Olowofela)
12) Toomua, (New Signing), Smith (Thacker)
13) Manu, Tait, Catchpole
14) Thompstone, Brady, (Yaywayawa), (Olowofela)
15) Veainu, Worth,

Now Development is harder to predict who is going to stay and who is leaving. Bryant and Tuilagi apparently def off. Bryant to Worcester being rumoured.

Outside of that not sure Yawayawa maybe but he might not be getting much game time due to injuries, Will Owen is a probable but again not sure.

I expect Joe Heyes (Tighthead prop) and Tom Hardiwck (10) to 100% be promoted might also see Oscar Harper (Loosehead) get promoted aswell.

Ayerza is the biggest ? in the senior team and then comes the question if he does retire what to do with the cap. Replace Marcos with like for like big name LH? or get a promising Loosehead and spend the rest of cap elsewhere? I like Hills and glad he is back from nearly 2 years out but don't know if he will be ready. Saying that i remeber him coming on V Argentina and doing a very good job.


Have to say that squad currently is looking Very iffy, first choice 23 looks good but depht a bit mhmmmm.

[LondonTiger]

Genge, Youngs, Cole, Barrow, Kitch, Williams, O'Connor, Kalamafoni, Youngs, Ford(jr),JPP, Toomua, Manu, Thompstone, Veainu

McGuigan, Ayerza, Logo, Slater, Evans/Thacker, Harrison, Ford(sr), Smith, Betham

Looks like a solid Top 6 team, but with issues in the backrow, and a lack of pace on the wing not one capable of getting top 2.


Throw in a handful of injuries and international call-ups and:

Rizzo, Youngs, Cilliers, Barrow, Fitzgerld, Slater, Croft, O'Connor, Hamilton, Harrison, Ford (sr), JPP, Smith, Tait, Thompstone, Worth

starts to look like a team in the depths of the lower half.

[Welly]

With the right game plan you don't need pace on the wings, MOC game plan last year didn't require pace on the wings TBF. The key is having a fit Toomua and Manu which allows Ford jr to play other into holes those two should create.

it's tough like i was impressed with BOC yesterday considering the bath back row.

8 is the biggest issue in the pack followed by IMO a big lock or Hooker. Now Kalamafoni might do a very good job as being a battering ram which i think he will.

I have high hopes for Holmes as a signing aswell.

I think if we can get one more 12/13 player of some youth and quality we should be okay for top 4 challenging next season, and that should allow MOC to sort out who he wants.

[Welly]

Leicester Tigers Development XV
15 George Worth
14 Ryan Olowofela
13 Peter Betham
12 Charlie Thacker
11 Tom Brady
10 Oli Bryant
9 Ben White
1 Owen Hills
2 Isaac Miller
3 Greg Bateman
4 Harry Wells
5 Joe Maksymiw
6 Tom Croft (c)
7 Will Evans
8 Fred Tuilagi

Replacements
16 Willie Priestley
17 Riccardo Brugnara
18 Joe Heyes
19 Sam Lewis
20 Will Owen
21 Harry Simmons
22 Joe Milligan
23 Sam Yawayawa

[king_carlos]

With the right game plan you don't need pace on the wings, MOC game plan last year didn't require pace on the wings TBF. The key is having a fit Toomua and Manu which allows Ford jr to play other into holes those two should create.

it's tough like i was impressed with BOC yesterday considering the bath back row.

8 is the biggest issue in the pack followed by IMO a big lock or Hooker. Now Kalamafoni might do a very good job as being a battering ram which i think he will.

I have high hopes for Holmes as a signing aswell.

I think if we can get one more 12/13 player of some youth and quality we should be okay for top 4 challenging next season, and that should allow MOC to sort out who he wants.  

+ 1 to that Welly.

After whining about England needing pace on the wings for years I'm actually less concerned about it with the current Tigers squad. Especially with TV at full back. Thompstone and JPP are extremely solid in their basics, good finishers and have enough pace to burn still. Betham offers a slightly quicker option and Brady has played above expectation. Catchpole has looked better at wing than centre IMO. Holmes seems an exciting addition. That's a good batch of wingers.

A centre signing to replace Mermoz is now needed most IMO. Smith is a great squad player and Taity is useful for his versatility. A step up from what they now offer is needed to push Toomua/Manu and allow genuine rotation.

A marquee 8 signing would be great of course but the cap and money simply isn't there. Kalamafoni is a solid signing on the budget available.

If Logo and Marcos both return (big ifs) then the depth that allows in the front row would make a huge difference to the power of our scrum. If the amount of money invested in that front row is to be justified then the scrum has to be a weapon.

[king_carlos]

Leicester Tigers Development XV
15 George Worth
14 Ryan Olowofela
13 Peter Betham
12 Charlie Thacker
11 Tom Brady
10 Oli Bryant
9 Ben White
1 Owen Hills
2 Isaac Miller
3 Greg Bateman
4 Harry Wells
5 Joe Maksymiw
6 Tom Croft (c)
7 Will Evans
8 Fred Tuilagi

Replacements
16 Willie Priestley
17 Riccardo Brugnara
18 Joe Heyes
19 Sam Lewis
20 Will Owen
21 Harry Simmons
22 Joe Milligan
23 Sam Yawayawa

Evans back 

Isaac Miller?

It's a good side, interesting blend of senior and development. The centre partnership of Thacker and Betham should combine well.

Is Ben Betts injured?

[Welly]

Miller is the students captain.

Guess Betts is out.

[formerly known as Sam]

I note Ryan Mills has yet to agree a new contract with Worcester who are also publicly chasing a big name 10. He'd be an ideal understudy to Ford and Toomua but that's probably wishful thinking.

Yesterday showed some real promise in our backrow. Probably BOC's best game in a Tigers shirt and during the first half Hamilton was giving Falatau a lesson in how to play 8 (shame that Falatau managed to remember how to play in the second half). I think backrow balance will be a big aspect in whether we are successful, Fitz for all his work rate isn't mobile enough and he looked to be tiring by the half hour mark, similarly in the second half the combination of BOC at 8 and Thacker at 7 left us a little light physically. 

I can't see Ayerza retiring. If he did we'd suddenly be shopping with some serious budget. A Georgian prop and hooker for the winter months to aid our tight game would be feasible then.

I'm a little surprised we aren't tapping into the Tuilagi PI player agency links. We could do with a fleet footed battering ram.

[Welly]

I note Ryan Mills has yet to agree a new contract with Worcester who are also publicly chasing a big name 10. He'd be an ideal understudy to Ford and Toomua but that's probably wishful thinking.

Yesterday showed some real promise in our backrow. Probably BOC's best game in a Tigers shirt and during the first half Hamilton was giving Falatau a lesson in how to play 8 (shame that Falatau managed to remember how to play in the second half). I think backrow balance will be a big aspect in whether we are successful, Fitz for all his work rate isn't mobile enough and he looked to be tiring by the half hour mark, similarly in the second half the combination of BOC at 8 and Thacker at 7 left us a little light physically. 

I can't see Ayerza retiring. If he did we'd suddenly be shopping with some serious budget. A Georgian prop and hooker for the winter months to aid our tight game would be feasible then.

I'm a little surprised we aren't tapping into the Tuilagi PI player agency links. We could do with a fleet footed battering ram.

Mills will prob stay or go back to Glous.

Ayerza's injury is pretty serious from what i gather, lifting that AWC trophy sort of makes me think it is a possibility.

RE Fred player contracts trouble is alot of PI 8's who can catch are signed up by french teams from the off almost.

Always wondered if Tigers should of moved Pohe to 8 during his academy days, he had the size and speed of a carrying 8 and could of learnt the basics in the development squad. He just wasn't athletic enough to be a manu centre.

[formerly known as Sam]

Pohe to 8 would have been a good shout. I think he got pushed to centre when he was younger because his dad and uncle were coaches and also built to a similar shape and have good skills ( I played with his uncle in a charity game, really nice bloke, people that size shouldn't be able to be playmakers). Now of course a big lad that can smash and then offload is what you need.

Not just an 8 from the PI we could do with. Hooker, blindside or centre would all be welcome additions. The French are keen as are the NZ schools to grab young talent but it's not a sure fire system. People develop late and change sports etc. I can't believe we don't have a scout out in Eastern Europe having a chat with Cobden and monitoring who's coming through in Romania, Georgia and Russia. Those guys out there are big and tough.

Mills won't go back to Glaws. Glaws have Burns Jnr, Williams and Twelvetrees available at 10 and Twelvetrees, Scott and Atkinson able to play 12. He'd be getting less time than staying at Wuss. If we could afford to offer him a contract he'd be at least in the 22 shirt and the 10 shirt for a third of the season.

[Welly]

Ayerza confirms his retirement.

No surprise for me, but it still hurts knowing that he won't be in a Tigers shirt again.

[formerly known as Sam]

 . Sad times. One of the last great Tigers players. Hopefully Genge has been paying attention because Marcos was head and shoulders above 99% of other looseheads for most of his career.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Real shame, a genuine world class player for most of his career.

[LondonTiger]

"Marcos has been an outstanding representative of the club on and off the field in more than 10 years at Tigers.

"He has been at the very heart of the Tigers squad for the last 11 seasons and continually worked hard on his game while also assisting those around him.

"Marcos has had the respect of team-mates and rivals around the rugby world, as well as from the pundits and journalists who follow the game closely. He has been without doubt one of the leading players in his position in the world game.

"The affection in which he is held here is evident in his interaction with supporters at Welford Road and in the support for his testimonial events as well as from within the playing squad.

"We wish Marcos and his family well for the future. They will always be part of the Tigers Family and welcome at Welford Road."

I echo everything said by Peter Tom.

A world class player and a great tiger.

[yappysnap]

Shame to see him go, he's been a nightmare for all opposing props across Europe this last decade. At least he's got to pick the time he retires though.

[formerly known as Sam]

Shame to see him go, he's been a nightmare for all opposing props across Europe this last decade. At least he's got to pick the time he retires though.

He's been out injured for some time and I think that has sadly forced his hand. It would have been much more preferable to seeing him get one more standing ovation from the Welford Road crowd  (he's had several over the years and deserved them). Hopefully he'll get that standing ovation at a home game before the end of the season, if he's invited on to the pitch before the game the fans will show their appreciation.

[LondonTiger]

I hope we get to see him on Saturday.

[HongKongCherry]

I don't think its hyperbole, but I can't think of a better prop to have graced the Jeff. We've had great players such as Somerville and Dowd at the end of their careers, but Ayerza was here for the peak.  I've made my feelings about modern day fancy props quite clear, but Ayerza is the epitome of what a prop should be, an absolute destructive scrummager first and foremost; a set piece anchor to set up attacking play. He will be greatly missed, but should look back fondly on a fantastic career      

[Sgt_Pooly]

Hayman was the best prop I've seen the AP, he made Jon Golding look amazing.

1. Ayerza
3. Hayman

Would be one hell of a scary combination.

[king_carlos]

One of the best props in the world for much of his career and widely considered the best LH in the world for several as well. The huge reputation he holds around the club and area as a gentleman as well as a great player speaks for itself.

One of a small band of props who managed to keep developing their game to the ever adapting scrum and line-out whilst also keeping up with the increasing pace and physicality of open play.

I hope he goes into coaching at some point as his vast knowledge of forward play and analytic nature to small details would make him a fantastic teacher.

Cheers Marcos 

[Gooseberry]

Thinking back a few years to when Tigers had Ayerza, Castro, and Cole in their prime supported by White and Stanko.
Might never seen a stable of props like that again.

11 years ...its making me feel old realising he'd been with the club that long.

[nathan]

I spotted him last week sat outside our local deli, really didn't look happy. Wondering if this was the reason.

All the best to him, a true gent and amazing player.

[king_carlos]

Genge re-signing finally confirmed by MOC in post match coverage. That's our best signing if you ask me!

[king_carlos]

With Kalamafoni, Mapapalangi, Holmes and Joe Ford all reportedly done deals the squad for next season is looking like.

1.Genge, Rizzo, Mulipola
2.Youngs, McGuigan
3.Cole, Cilliers, Bateman
4.Barrow, Slater
5.Kitchener, Fitzgerald, Wells
6.Williams, McCaffery, Croft
7.O'Connor, Evans, Thacker
8.Hamilton, Kalamafoni, Mapaplangi

9.Youngs, Harrison, Kitto
10.G Ford, J Ford

11.Pietersen, Brady, Catchpole
12.Toomua, Smith
13.Tuilagi, Tait
14.Thompstone, Betham, Holmes
15.Veainu, Worth

Rumours are that the club are still searching for:

12/13 to replace Mermoz - No names mentioned
15 - Aaron Morris mentioned
3rd hooker - Not heard any names yet
A squad prop with Marcos retired plus Balmain and Brugnara leaving - Perhaps Betts will be promoted?

Geoff Parling might be returning as a player/coach working with the academy forwards. This would be a very good addition on both counts IMO.

Charlie Thacker seems inline for a senior contract as well.

[formerly known as Sam]

You've included Slater twice but not Wells. We look a bit well stocked on the wings but not so much at centre (particularly 12) and fullback.

[king_carlos]

Changed that now, fkaS!

It depends where Betham and Catchpole will predominantly play with the wingers. Catchpole will probably move back to centre as he develops but currently I think he's looked best on the wing. Betham is harder to call given how bad his form has been this season.

A high class replacement for Mermoz is vital, especially if Toomua is effectively second choice 10.

[formerly known as Sam]

There's a few wingers that can step in at 13 but little cover at 12 and little size at centre. A Tait and Betham midfield will have all the defensive capabilities of a wet paper bag. Unless the plan is to use Worth who tackles well but only has a handful of senior starts (he has played 10 on loan at Notts).

A utility player who is also a bit of a unit would be nice. Will Hurrell at Bristol or Jaco Taute if Munster aren't allowed to hang on to him.

[LondonTiger]

Tiffany Youngs diagnosed as terminal. Words sometimes are never enough.

[carpet baboon]

Tiffany Youngs diagnosed as terminal. Words sometimes are never enough.

Christ that's terrible news. The world dosent care who it kicks does it.

[formerly known as Sam]

Thoughts and prayers are with their family. Horrible news.

[Ozzy3213]

Just no words really. 100% respect to Ben for his decision re the Lions. Thoughts with him, Tom and their entire family.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Such awful news, thoughts are with the family and what a massive decision for Ben to make. A real measure of the man, incredible respect to him.

[king_carlos]

Oli Bryant has signed for Jersey for next season. A championship contract is a good move for him, I hope he does well there. His passing game is excellent but he just didn't kick on at fly-half or centre. He hasn't been helped by injuries either sadly.

Tom Croft to Coventry is a new rumour as well. If he's getting released    and can't find a Prem contract due to his injury problems then it could make sense. There is a link with Stanko and if he wants to keep playing whilst shifting into coaching then it would allow both. It still sounds like it's been plucked from thin air by someone IMO!

[formerly known as Sam]

Sounds like 2+2 = 5 with that Croft rumour. I suspect there's probably a few lower league teams that would like him as a player coach. There's surely more money available abroad for the same job and he's a young bloke still, chance to stretch his wings a little.

Bryant needed to move to boost his career. His kicking game lacks range but he'll breath some life into the Jersey backline. He'll have a big pack in front of him so should get some good ball to move around.

[Welly]

For Bryant
Hardwick was likely to overtake him at 10 and Thacker is ahead of him at 12.

Best move all round and not sure why some people on Twitter think it's another Tigers messing up their academy.

[formerly known as Sam]

Bryant has had bad injuries at unfortunate times. It's stopped him pushing for a regular place in the first team and it's just one of those things that hasn't worked out. I agree with you Welly the move to Jersey is best for him and Tigers. I think he'll show well in the Championship and might get an AP contract in a couple of years.

[formerly known as Sam]

Leicester Tigers (v Wasps, away, Saturday 5.15pm)
15 Telusa Veainu
14 Adam Thompstone
13 Mathew Tait
12 Owen Williams
11 Peter Betham
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs
1 Ellis Genge
2 Tom Youngs (c)
3 Dan Cole
4 Dom Barrow
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Mike Fitzgerald
7 Brendon O'Connor
8 Luke Hamilton

Replacements
16 George McGuigan
17 Greg Bateman
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Ed Slater
20 Mike Williams
21 Sam Harrison
22 Jack Roberts
23 Matt Smith


Oh dear. I fear it might be a long game tomorrow. Why the bloody hell are we starting Fitz and Tait when we have Williams and Roberts on the bench?

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