Australia v England, 18 June
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Australia v England, 18 June
First topic message reminder :
AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
18 June 2016
20:00 AEST (UTC+10)
AAMI Park, Melbourne
Live on [tbc]
Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]
A. Head to Head
45 Played 45
25 Won 19
1 Drawn 1
19 Lost 25
968 Points 713
B. Recent Form
11 June 2016 - Suncorp, Brisbane: Australia 28–39 England
3 October 2015 - Twickenham, London: 13 – 33 to Australia
29 November 2014 - Twickenham, London: 26 – 17 to England
2 November 2013 - Twickenham, London: 20 – 13 to England
17 November 2012 - Twickenham, London: 14 – 20 to Australia
13 November 2010 - Twickenham, London: 35 – 18 to England
19 June 2010 - Telstra Stadium, Sydney: 20 – 21 to England
12 June 2010 - Subiaco Oval, Perth: 27 – 17 to Australia
C. Teams
AUSTRALIA
Israel Folau; Dane Haylett-Petty, Tevita Kuridrani, Samu Kerevi, Rob Horne; Bernard Foley, Nick Phipps; James Slipper, Stephen Moore (capt), Sekope Kepu, Rory Arnold, Sam Carter, Scott Fardy, Michael Hooper, Sean McMahon.
Replacements (three to be omitted): Tatafu Polota-Nau, Toby Smith, Greg Holmes, James Horwill, Dean Mumm, Wycliff Palu, Ben McCalman, Liam Gill, Nick Frisby, Christian Leali'ifano, Luke Morahan
ENGLAND
AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
18 June 2016
20:00 AEST (UTC+10)
AAMI Park, Melbourne
Live on [tbc]
Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]
A. Head to Head
45 Played 45
25 Won 19
1 Drawn 1
19 Lost 25
968 Points 713
B. Recent Form
11 June 2016 - Suncorp, Brisbane: Australia 28–39 England
3 October 2015 - Twickenham, London: 13 – 33 to Australia
29 November 2014 - Twickenham, London: 26 – 17 to England
2 November 2013 - Twickenham, London: 20 – 13 to England
17 November 2012 - Twickenham, London: 14 – 20 to Australia
13 November 2010 - Twickenham, London: 35 – 18 to England
19 June 2010 - Telstra Stadium, Sydney: 20 – 21 to England
12 June 2010 - Subiaco Oval, Perth: 27 – 17 to Australia
C. Teams
AUSTRALIA
Israel Folau; Dane Haylett-Petty, Tevita Kuridrani, Samu Kerevi, Rob Horne; Bernard Foley, Nick Phipps; James Slipper, Stephen Moore (capt), Sekope Kepu, Rory Arnold, Sam Carter, Scott Fardy, Michael Hooper, Sean McMahon.
Replacements (three to be omitted): Tatafu Polota-Nau, Toby Smith, Greg Holmes, James Horwill, Dean Mumm, Wycliff Palu, Ben McCalman, Liam Gill, Nick Frisby, Christian Leali'ifano, Luke Morahan
ENGLAND
Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:18 am; edited 2 times in total
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
boomeranga wrote:Barney McGrew did it wrote:I was nervous when they dropped Sio (as he would have lost Aus the game), but after hearing Cheika crying over those naughty burly English types pushing the poor little Aus players a bit I’m feeling much better. They certainly don’t like it up ‘em.
I've seen the Dwyer comments that have upset everyone so, but nothing from Cheika. What did he say?
I can't imagine him 'crying' over a team being physical. He was a dirty bugga himself and everything about him loves that side of it. Everyone else complained about the Waratahs when he was coach and that was never an issue for us before he arrived. The opposite was generally the case. He tends to move his teams towards that end of the scale.
Cheika stated that England play with a lot of "niggle" and they will not react. He stated that his teams will never play that way.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
boomeranga wrote:...I've seen the Dwyer comments that have upset everyone so, but nothing from Cheika. What did he say?
I can't imagine him 'crying' over a team being physical....
“I love being in this situation, which I know sounds crazy, but one down in the series, in a scrap, and we’re Aussies, in a battle, so let’s go,” said Cheika. “It’s true that I didn’t have this head on after the match. I was miserable, hurting, wanting to cry. But now, let’s get into it, show our character, and I want my players to enjoy the experience, this really good shindig. We never want to take a backward step. But losing is part of life. You can’t have a golden pathway all the way through where everything is happy and rosy and everyone is singing songs together.
“Sometimes it is tough, you are in that scrap. We have had a good run and now we need to find out about character so that we can build something of substance.”
“We have got to deal with the niggle a bit better, that off-the-ball stuff,” said Cheika. “You can’t whack a bloke because you will get caught. Niggle is not in our game, that’s not the Aussie way but if that is England’s strategy then that is their strategy. I am not against it but we have to find our way. I won’t be sledging England. I don’t do that if I can’t get out on the field myself to back it up. You can’t pin this or that up on the dressing-room wall for motivation. We want to be bullet-proof against all that sort stuff. On Saturday, it’s clear and simple, we have to be better.”
Rugby Fan- Moderator
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
LondonTiger wrote:boomeranga wrote:Barney McGrew did it wrote:I was nervous when they dropped Sio (as he would have lost Aus the game), but after hearing Cheika crying over those naughty burly English types pushing the poor little Aus players a bit I’m feeling much better. They certainly don’t like it up ‘em.
I've seen the Dwyer comments that have upset everyone so, but nothing from Cheika. What did he say?
I can't imagine him 'crying' over a team being physical. He was a dirty bugga himself and everything about him loves that side of it. Everyone else complained about the Waratahs when he was coach and that was never an issue for us before he arrived. The opposite was generally the case. He tends to move his teams towards that end of the scale.
Cheika stated that England play with a lot of "niggle" and they will not react. He stated that his teams will never play that way.
The Lancaster approach. Good to know
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Will be interesting to see if Daly is only in the 23 for injury cover or whether there is a plan to utilise him. If the rumours are true that he has been running at 15, it would offer a hell of an attacking threat in the backline because when he plays there for Wasps he comes into the line at pace, something we've all been crying out for for a long time. Would be very useful with Ford and Farrell offering the additional width.
jamesandimac- Posts : 233
Join date : 2011-07-28
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
It doesn't read like much to me because he says a lot of words that don't support that interpretation. But if it does to you guys then fair enough.
I disagree with him that niggle is not our way when we pick Fardy. He loves it.
I disagree with him that niggle is not our way when we pick Fardy. He loves it.
boomeranga- Posts : 794
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
'Niggle' - as in Itjoe shouting in everyone's faces at every opportunity did seem to be a feature of last Saturday's game
lostinwales- lostinwales
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
He is rather good at that
BamBam- Posts : 17226
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
lostinwales wrote:'Niggle' - as in Itjoe shouting in everyone's faces at every opportunity did seem to be a feature of last Saturday's game
If that was what he meant, I can agree with him - it was getting damned annoying.
However he spoke about marginally late hits and holding players back off the ball.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
LondonTiger wrote:lostinwales wrote:'Niggle' - as in Itjoe shouting in everyone's faces at every opportunity did seem to be a feature of last Saturday's game
If that was what he meant, I can agree with him - it was getting damned annoying.
However he spoke about marginally late hits and holding players back off the ball.
Nice to know his sides will never play like that. Someone must have forgotten to tell Hooper at the world cup!
We do put in some occasional marginally late hits, admittedly, though I suppose you always risk a penalty with that
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
LondonTiger wrote:lostinwales wrote:'Niggle' - as in Itjoe shouting in everyone's faces at every opportunity did seem to be a feature of last Saturday's game
If that was what he meant, I can agree with him - it was getting damned annoying.
It's a good job you won or he would have looked pretty stupid.
Luckless Pedestrian- Posts : 24898
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
This is a good look at Australia's attack last weekend.
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-australia-1-3-3-1-shape-england-2016-2825557-Jun2016/
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-australia-1-3-3-1-shape-england-2016-2825557-Jun2016/
Rugby Fan- Moderator
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:LondonTiger wrote:lostinwales wrote:'Niggle' - as in Itjoe shouting in everyone's faces at every opportunity did seem to be a feature of last Saturday's game
If that was what he meant, I can agree with him - it was getting damned annoying.
It's a good job you won or he would have looked pretty stupid.
Fortunately Itoje has had a habit of winning rugby games so far..... Could change on the weekend though.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
I liked what he had to say, especially about how distraught he was at losing. You wouldn't really want it any other way.boomeranga wrote:It doesn't read like much to me because he says a lot of words that don't support that interpretation. But if it does to you guys then fair enough.
I disagree with him that niggle is not our way when we pick Fardy. He loves it.
I don't think he was whining but there's little doubt he didn't intend to be complimentary about England.
Rugby Fan- Moderator
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Rugby Fan wrote:This is a good look at Australia's attack last weekend.
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-australia-1-3-3-1-shape-england-2016-2825557-Jun2016/
Interesting analysis. Two notable points - one is that Burrell's slow / incorrect reactions to the Australian moves was a big contributor in England's defence being out of shape; he clearly wasn't prepared for how they were going to use their pods.
The second was that Billy V was effectively required to defend against much faster backs in a couple of the examples, and his comparative lack of pace was exploited. I imagine that might be why Clifford is on the bench (aside from his role as cover for 12, obviously) - so that England have some very quick but very powerful legs to help close out the game in the last quarter. The same goes for Lawes.
Poorfour- Posts : 6407
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Not convinced we need 2 locks on the bench but I'm assuming that Daly has convinced Jones he has what it takes to play 12! Bit risky for my tastes. Yardes unlucky to be dropped based on last week.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
beshocked wrote:Luckless Pedestrian wrote:LondonTiger wrote:lostinwales wrote:'Niggle' - as in Itjoe shouting in everyone's faces at every opportunity did seem to be a feature of last Saturday's game
If that was what he meant, I can agree with him - it was getting damned annoying.
It's a good job you won or he would have looked pretty stupid.
Fortunately Itoje has had a habit of winning rugby games so far..... Could change on the weekend though.
To be fair when you look at the other locks picked then it has to be Itoje doing the shouting, the others would probably get the words wrong or scare themselves!
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
6/2 split does have risks but it shows quite clearly Englands plan for the match, which is to really go after Australia up front. We saw something very similar in the 6Ns against Italy whereby it was full on for 50/60 mins and then the bench emptied to take the game away.
I don't think it'll be quite the same as that score but if England do get out of the starting block early and physically impose themselves on the Aussie pack then having those forward replacements coming on will only enhance things.
George is a good move and will keep the set piece ticking once Hartley comes off and I can see Launchbury and Lawes making a big impression with Itoje, Clifford and Vunipola in the back row.
The only problem will be if there are injuries elsewhere to alter the plan.
I don't think it'll be quite the same as that score but if England do get out of the starting block early and physically impose themselves on the Aussie pack then having those forward replacements coming on will only enhance things.
George is a good move and will keep the set piece ticking once Hartley comes off and I can see Launchbury and Lawes making a big impression with Itoje, Clifford and Vunipola in the back row.
The only problem will be if there are injuries elsewhere to alter the plan.
jamesandimac- Posts : 233
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Picking a bench is always tricky. It's a balance between what you want to do and what you might have to do.
Luckless Pedestrian- Posts : 24898
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
It's this from the mentioned article......
'Marler's team-mate Mako Vunipola says he can "see where Marler is coming from" but is confident referee Craig Joubert will not be influenced by external noise come the weekend.
"We are all human beings. I can't comment on what Marler tweets. You can see where he is coming from, but it's tough. It's one of those things - a reaction," Vunipola said.
"We just have to go out there and do what we can.
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have every confidence in Coley. We are very lucky to have one of the best referees in the world, Craig Joubert.
"We trust he will make the calls that are needed. That World Cup [game] is history."'
WTF?
'Marler's team-mate Mako Vunipola says he can "see where Marler is coming from" but is confident referee Craig Joubert will not be influenced by external noise come the weekend.
"We are all human beings. I can't comment on what Marler tweets. You can see where he is coming from, but it's tough. It's one of those things - a reaction," Vunipola said.
"We just have to go out there and do what we can.
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have every confidence in Coley. We are very lucky to have one of the best referees in the world, Craig Joubert.
"We trust he will make the calls that are needed. That World Cup [game] is history."'
WTF?
Tattie Scones RRN- Posts : 1803
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:It's this from the mentioned article......
'Marler's team-mate Mako Vunipola says he can "see where Marler is coming from" but is confident referee Craig Joubert will not be influenced by external noise come the weekend.
"We are all human beings. I can't comment on what Marler tweets. You can see where he is coming from, but it's tough. It's one of those things - a reaction," Vunipola said.
"We just have to go out there and do what we can.
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have every confidence in Coley. We are very lucky to have one of the best referees in the world, Craig Joubert.
"We trust he will make the calls that are needed. That World Cup [game] is history."'
WTF?
He's hardly going to say 'Well Joubert is a complete bumhole and the way he handled Scotland Australia in the RWC was a total disgrace. BTW I am pure as the driven snow and anything bad that happens on my side of the scrum will always be the fault of those cheating shackle draggers*'
*Saw that on Green and Gold - as in the results of the tests so far is soap dodgers 1 shackle draggers 0..
lostinwales- lostinwales
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
You doubt hes 1 of the best?
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Jamesandimac
I think we'll finish with Itoje, Haskell, Clifford. Vunipola's fitness is light years ahead of where it was but in a game like this I'd expect him to drop off, whereas you wouldn't expect to see Haskell being replaced.
I think we'll finish with Itoje, Haskell, Clifford. Vunipola's fitness is light years ahead of where it was but in a game like this I'd expect him to drop off, whereas you wouldn't expect to see Haskell being replaced.
thomh- Posts : 1816
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
thomh wrote:Jamesandimac
I think we'll finish with Itoje, Haskell, Clifford. Vunipola's fitness is light years ahead of where it was but in a game like this I'd expect him to drop off, whereas you wouldn't expect to see Haskell being replaced.
Depends how much last week took out of him. And he has had that reputation of yo-yo form.
Won't happen but would be great to see a repeat of Billy's Ireland 6N performance on Saturday
lostinwales- lostinwales
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
thomh wrote:Jamesandimac
I think we'll finish with Itoje, Haskell, Clifford. Vunipola's fitness is light years ahead of where it was but in a game like this I'd expect him to drop off, whereas you wouldn't expect to see Haskell being replaced.
It's been a long season too. The England guys have done well so far. I think it's also another reason why it's 6/2 to share the workload in the forwards.
It makes it all the more impressive that England won the first test and managed to see out the game.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Anyone else think Moore is pretty much Mr Niggle himself.
I noticed in the first 10 minutes when he was clearing a ruck he kept using his arms in the faces of English players
I noticed in the first 10 minutes when he was clearing a ruck he kept using his arms in the faces of English players
nathan- Posts : 11033
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
beshocked wrote:thomh wrote:Jamesandimac
I think we'll finish with Itoje, Haskell, Clifford. Vunipola's fitness is light years ahead of where it was but in a game like this I'd expect him to drop off, whereas you wouldn't expect to see Haskell being replaced.
It's been a long season too. The England guys have done well so far. I think it's also another reason why it's 6/2 to share the workload in the forwards.
It makes it all the more impressive that England won the first test and managed to see out the game.
After seeing you have a pop at benches in the past we're 1 broken nose from Daly at 12 or wing. Thought that would fill you with dread!
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
nathan wrote:Anyone else think Moore is pretty much Mr Niggle himself.
I noticed in the first 10 minutes when he was clearing a ruck he kept using his arms in the faces of English players
Moore is a very dirty player, quite an old school hooker really.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
lostinwales wrote:Tattie Scones RRN wrote:It's this from the mentioned article......
'Marler's team-mate Mako Vunipola says he can "see where Marler is coming from" but is confident referee Craig Joubert will not be influenced by external noise come the weekend.
"We are all human beings. I can't comment on what Marler tweets. You can see where he is coming from, but it's tough. It's one of those things - a reaction," Vunipola said.
"We just have to go out there and do what we can.
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have every confidence in Coley. We are very lucky to have one of the best referees in the world, Craig Joubert.
"We trust he will make the calls that are needed. That World Cup [game] is history."'
WTF?
He's hardly going to say 'Well Joubert is a complete bumhole and the way he handled Scotland Australia in the RWC was a total disgrace. BTW I am pure as the driven snow and anything bad that happens on my side of the scrum will always be the fault of those cheating shackle draggers*'
*Saw that on Green and Gold - as in the results of the tests so far is soap dodgers 1 shackle draggers 0..
No.....
But Marler hopefully might.
Tattie Scones RRN- Posts : 1803
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Sgt_Pooly wrote:nathan wrote:Anyone else think Moore is pretty much Mr Niggle himself.
I noticed in the first 10 minutes when he was clearing a ruck he kept using his arms in the faces of English players
Moore is a very dirty player, quite an old school hooker really.
Hopefully he'll learn from his opposite number how to conduct himself on a rugby pitch.
Luckless Pedestrian- Posts : 24898
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Sgt_Pooly wrote:nathan wrote:Anyone else think Moore is pretty much Mr Niggle himself.
I noticed in the first 10 minutes when he was clearing a ruck he kept using his arms in the faces of English players
Moore is a very dirty player, quite an old school hooker really.
Don't think he's dirty but he plays right up to the line. He was definitely looking to intimidate or aggravate the England players. Nothing illegal about a wind up merchant and whilst holding players down with his forearm is a bit naughty he's unlikely to get pulled up for it. Did make me laugh when he complained about England players holding down Aussies off the ball to the ref.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21245
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
I don't think it's a particularly bad thing. You play to the limits and see what you can get away with. I think he's a good player, quite old school.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
boomeranga wrote:It doesn't read like much to me because he says a lot of words that don't support that interpretation. But if it does to you guys then fair enough.
I disagree with him that niggle is not our way when we pick Fardy. He loves it.
boomeranga - you make your point clearly and well, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Cheika mentions 'niggle' which by implication can be verbal or physical. If he means the physical - reference to marginally late hits and holding off the ball - let's see the evidence. Either of those is foul play and should be punished as such, provided the hits are late (I'm not sure what 'marginally' late is, it's either legal or illegal.) If he means verbals well, excuse me, but Aussies complaining about verbals/sledging? Someone should give him Steve Waugh's phone number for advice: his teams took it further than anyone ever in any sport. As for Cheika's 'my teams will never play like that', then either he has very bad amnesia and has completely forgotten how other teams viewed his Waratahs or else he's a barefaced you know what. Whatever next? Brian Moore complains the game is getting a little too rough for his liking, especially in the front row. Pffft.
SimonofSurrey- Posts : 909
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't think it's a particularly bad thing. You play to the limits and see what you can get away with. I think he's a good player, quite old school.
I think you need some aggression and niggle in the front row. No point being overly nice up front. The key is to do it and not get pinged. I think Hartley has lost a little of his edge recently, he's gone from being too aggressive and getting himself into trouble to being too nice and not quite as effective. He needs to find some middle ground. Moore seems to have found that medium and must be rather unpleasant to play against.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21245
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
I certainly approve of the bench changes for this match. I much prefer George to Cowan-Dickie and Clifford should offer impact off the bench. Daly gives a place kicking option in the event of an injury to Farrell.jamesandimac wrote:6/2 split does have risks but it shows quite clearly Englands plan for the match, which is to really go after Australia up front. We saw something very similar in the 6Ns against Italy whereby it was full on for 50/60 mins and then the bench emptied to take the game away.
I don't think it'll be quite the same as that score but if England do get out of the starting block early and physically impose themselves on the Aussie pack then having those forward replacements coming on will only enhance things.
George is a good move and will keep the set piece ticking once Hartley comes off and I can see Launchbury and Lawes making a big impression with Itoje, Clifford and Vunipola in the back row.
The only problem will be if there are injuries elsewhere to alter the plan.
Exiledinborders- Posts : 1645
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Happy enough for Hartley to keep his cool, be the captain, hit his targets in the lineout, do his jobs in the scrum and the loose. These are more important than him 'niggling'. Others can do that job
lostinwales- lostinwales
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Agreed. If there is one player who you do not want to up the aggression it is Hartley.lostinwales wrote:Happy enough for Hartley to keep his cool, be the captain, hit his targets in the lineout, do his jobs in the scrum and the loose. These are more important than him 'niggling'. Others can do that job
Exiledinborders- Posts : 1645
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
formerly known as Sam wrote:Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't think it's a particularly bad thing. You play to the limits and see what you can get away with. I think he's a good player, quite old school.
I think you need some aggression and niggle in the front row. No point being overly nice up front. The key is to do it and not get pinged. I think Hartley has lost a little of his edge recently, he's gone from being too aggressive and getting himself into trouble to being too nice and not quite as effective. He needs to find some middle ground. Moore seems to have found that medium and must be rather unpleasant to play against.
Hartley has always annoyed me as a hooker. His set piece is generally superb which an absolute must at Int level, no problems there. He's a big unit though, why does he not impose himself around the park more? His carrying is pretty poor and his breakdown work(on the fetching side) mostly non-existent. I really rate him as a hooker, I just wish he added more around the park.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
I don't think Hartley has ever really been a big carrier or anything...which has puzzled people. Nevermind for the moment I'm happy to have a real top quality hooker in the set pieces and tight exchanges.
Now I have had a vision....I am not, nor ever will be a fan of Mako. I thought he wasn't all that great on Saturday....however I think there'll have been a little word in his ear and he's going to have an absolute blinder on Saturday...and ive got him down for 2 tries - £100-1 :-)
Now I have had a vision....I am not, nor ever will be a fan of Mako. I thought he wasn't all that great on Saturday....however I think there'll have been a little word in his ear and he's going to have an absolute blinder on Saturday...and ive got him down for 2 tries - £100-1 :-)
Geordie- Posts : 28849
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
I think we should accept that deservedly we got the rub from Poite last week and things being what they are we won't necessarily garner the same response from Joubert.
I'm expecting Ozy to bring it all on saturday much like in 01 & 13 where they won both Melbourne 2nd tests. It's too close to call but the way I'm reading it we'll be too strong upfront, however all could be negated by Joubert's interpretations??? We'll need to be extra clean - NO bloody penalties
What a fantastic advertisement for our game, though obviously its a shame this is all in the shadow of the european football and not last autumn when the limelight was ours.
Finally, I could very easily imagine a scenario where both captains/hookers are sent from the field......bring it on indeed.
I'm expecting Ozy to bring it all on saturday much like in 01 & 13 where they won both Melbourne 2nd tests. It's too close to call but the way I'm reading it we'll be too strong upfront, however all could be negated by Joubert's interpretations??? We'll need to be extra clean - NO bloody penalties
What a fantastic advertisement for our game, though obviously its a shame this is all in the shadow of the european football and not last autumn when the limelight was ours.
Finally, I could very easily imagine a scenario where both captains/hookers are sent from the field......bring it on indeed.
kingelderfield- Posts : 2325
Join date : 2011-08-27
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
I'm thinking all options are on, a blow out either way or more likely it'll be extremely tight.
kingelderfield- Posts : 2325
Join date : 2011-08-27
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Teams seem to perform better when he is playing, though.Sgt_Pooly wrote:formerly known as Sam wrote:Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't think it's a particularly bad thing. You play to the limits and see what you can get away with. I think he's a good player, quite old school.
I think you need some aggression and niggle in the front row. No point being overly nice up front. The key is to do it and not get pinged. I think Hartley has lost a little of his edge recently, he's gone from being too aggressive and getting himself into trouble to being too nice and not quite as effective. He needs to find some middle ground. Moore seems to have found that medium and must be rather unpleasant to play against.
Hartley has always annoyed me as a hooker. His set piece is generally superb which an absolute must at Int level, no problems there. He's a big unit though, why does he not impose himself around the park more? His carrying is pretty poor and his breakdown work(on the fetching side) mostly non-existent. I really rate him as a hooker, I just wish he added more around the park.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12279
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
nathan wrote:Anyone else think Moore is pretty much Mr Niggle himself.
I noticed in the first 10 minutes when he was clearing a ruck he kept using his arms in the faces of English players
Yep, noticed this as well. I thought Cheka was right that we were hitting people a little late and holding their 9 down a lot, and Itoje was a complete wum. But Moore, as you say, was showing plenty as well.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
I was all for George starting the Six Nations before Hartley was made captain, but like with Haskell I think Jones has restricted Hartley's role and told him to just do a few things well. And it's amazing how Haskell just tackled everything in the Six Nations, and now his confidence is up and he's winning turnovers. Think it was three last week, although I don't think they were all Pocock-style jackals. Still, a turnover is a turnover.
I hope we see similar from Hartley, he gets so comfortable in the basics of his game before he starts adding a bit more responsibility carrying etc. These are experienced players with 50+ caps, but both of them seem to have relished the new approach and are playing some of their best rugby.
I still wouldn't be completely averse to George starting more matches possibly in a future series and Hartley (as squad captain) coming on after 55 to close things out, as I think we'll need a second experienced hooker (assuming Youngs is gone) and not having a cool head at the sharp end of games has cost us before.
I hope we see similar from Hartley, he gets so comfortable in the basics of his game before he starts adding a bit more responsibility carrying etc. These are experienced players with 50+ caps, but both of them seem to have relished the new approach and are playing some of their best rugby.
I still wouldn't be completely averse to George starting more matches possibly in a future series and Hartley (as squad captain) coming on after 55 to close things out, as I think we'll need a second experienced hooker (assuming Youngs is gone) and not having a cool head at the sharp end of games has cost us before.
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
No 7&1/2 wrote:beshocked wrote:thomh wrote:Jamesandimac
I think we'll finish with Itoje, Haskell, Clifford. Vunipola's fitness is light years ahead of where it was but in a game like this I'd expect him to drop off, whereas you wouldn't expect to see Haskell being replaced.
It's been a long season too. The England guys have done well so far. I think it's also another reason why it's 6/2 to share the workload in the forwards.
It makes it all the more impressive that England won the first test and managed to see out the game.
After seeing you have a pop at benches in the past we're 1 broken nose from Daly at 12 or wing. Thought that would fill you with dread!
It's not as if I am the only person who has questioned England's bench selections in the past. You say one broken nose away but none of the starting backs have played a few games together now, should be able to handle the situation.
I would be filled more with dread if May was starting!
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Fair enough, happy with a backline of Ford, Nowell, Daly, Joseph, Watson, Brown? I honestly question this wisdom as I think it's much more vulnerable to anything Lancaster put out. Fingers crossed for a bit of luck here.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Farrell is sent of for a high tackle, Ford carried off with concussion after tackling the Aussie centres for 40 minutes- leaving us with a backline of:
Care, Youngs; Nowell, Clifford, Daly, Joseph, Brown (with one short in the pack)
Care, Youngs; Nowell, Clifford, Daly, Joseph, Brown (with one short in the pack)
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Australia v England, 18 June
Plenty of pace.
dgttaylor- Posts : 84
Join date : 2011-08-27
Age : 39
Location : London
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
EnglandGlory would love Clifford at 12 at least!
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
dgttaylor wrote:Plenty of pace.
True
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Australia v England, 18 June
There has been a ton of analysis of last weekend's match, much more than I can recall for any 6N fixture, or even England's World Cup games.
In particular, Green and Gold have had at least a couple of gif-heavy features, and there must be at least a dozen accounts of aspects of the game on The Roar. I also liked that piece on the Irish site linked above.
You don't have to agree with their analysis to recognise that it can all add to appreciation of the sport. It makes some of the guff offered up by the UK papers look weak beer by comparison.
In particular, Green and Gold have had at least a couple of gif-heavy features, and there must be at least a dozen accounts of aspects of the game on The Roar. I also liked that piece on the Irish site linked above.
You don't have to agree with their analysis to recognise that it can all add to appreciation of the sport. It makes some of the guff offered up by the UK papers look weak beer by comparison.
Rugby Fan- Moderator
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