Euro 2016 Discussion

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Duty281 wrote:Sterling and Rooney have been woeful thus far and need to be dropped (but 1 of them certainly won't be), but I would favour giving Kane one final chance. He's had an excellent couple of seasons, and England shouldn't jettison him at the first sign of difficulty.

Rooney woeful? I'm not his biggest fan but he's been pretty good so far, working well alongside Dier allowing Alli to push on further

GSC - I bet Spain and Germany are thinking the same. Or...alternatively they are thinking...well even if our opposition decide to sit and defend we will unlock them creativity and urgency in the final 3rd.

3 games, 3 absolute battering's, 5 points. That's football sometimes but it really is galling

Batterings! Come on now.

Have you actually watched Germany Owen. Or Spain against Czech Republic? Breaking down teams that set up like Slovakia tonight is hard for even teams that boast the best playmakers in the world.

Terribly poor final ball and shooting letting down some great play

Can someone tell Roy that Arsenal didnt win the league this year...

that being said, that third place rule was in full display, Slovakia couldnt be bothered in the end

Only chance we've got is scrapping through to the QF & then we might actually look better against sides that attack us & we can counter, because breaking down teams we look clueless

GSC wrote:Have you actually watched Germany Owen. Or Spain against Czech Republic? Breaking down teams that set up like Slovakia tonight is hard for even teams that boast the best playmakers in the world.

It's the biggest problem with the expansion, all it means is more teams sitting back hoping for a 0-0, Germany and Spain tend to excel against the better teams who open up a bit more.

GSC wrote:Have you actually watched Germany Owen. Or Spain against Czech Republic? Breaking down teams that set up like Slovakia tonight is hard for even teams that boast the best playmakers in the world.

Please don't use common sense here GSC

Ah, looks like my original prediction was right - Wales top the group, and England finish second.

I haven't seen the game, so can't really comment, but Roy's decision to rest* half the squad means that England are going to play host nation France in the Quarter-Final, instead of a somewhat easier task against Portugal/Belgium.

*And it's 7 days till the next fixture. Rest players, really?!

Anyway, well done Wales. They should make the Semis now, at least.

Combination of poor finishing (Vardy, Sturridge, Lallana in particular) and a couple of slices of luck with some very good defending - happens in football sometimes

Watching the Wales goals - Russia's defending is so comical it genuinely makes me think it may have been fixed.

Duty281 wrote:Ah, looks like my original prediction was right - Wales top the group, and England finish second.

I haven't seen the game, so can't really comment, but Roy's decision to rest* half the squad means that England are going to play host nation France in the Quarter-Final, instead of a somewhat easier task against Portugal/Belgium.

*And it's 7 days till the next fixture. Rest players, really?!

Anyway, well done Wales. They should make the Semis now, at least.

The only teams who England should fear is Germany/Spain. Everyone else has been as rubbish as them (heck Portugal might not even make it out of a group with Austria/Hungary/Iceland ffs).

And congrats to Wales - and Gareth Bale too. Arriving on the big stage

Russia had to force the issue a tad against Wales needing a win at all costs. That defense with space in behind them is always going to be trouble.

Yep...Germany broke down Ukraine and won...Spain broke down Czech and won and steam rolled Turkey. All 3 teams arguably better than the dross of Russia and Slovakia yet we only managed two draws. I'm not debating that it isn't difficult to break teams down when they sit with men behind the ball...what I am saying is that if we have any intention of doing anything in this tournament or others to come we have to be able to show much much more guile and creativity and be clinical.

Yourself, Olly and others can keep using the word luck all you like but at some point it may dawn on you that 9/10 times its more than that which carries you past these types of teams and far into tournaments..not the other way around. It's why we have 1 major tournament win(funnily enough with controversy of a did or didn't it cross line) and the likes of Brazil, Spain, France, Italy, Germany have multiple victories.

Like I said...for all the excitement about all this young, vibrant talent coming through..they have looked as technically bereft thus far at the finals as years gone by.

Anyhow onto the last 16, where we could meet any one of the four teams the way that group has been going. France in the quarters...Spain or Italy in the semis is the likely route now if we are to make the final.

You conveniently ignored that Germany drew 0-0 with Poland there.

Germany broke down Ukraine with a set piece goal and a counter attack when Ukraine sent everyone up for a last minute corner. So not really that creativity and urgency in the last third.

They should've lost to Poland and it really wasn't close.

No, it's France in the QF, Germany in the Semi & possibly Spain in the final.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You conveniently ignored that Germany drew 0-0 with Poland there.

Plz HH, stop using common sense and facts - must be negative

John wrote:No, it's France in the QF, Germany in the Semi & possibly Spain in the final.

And yes, Rooney is finally gonna come good...

And for all Spain's creativity and urgency, it was a ball clipped in for a CB to head in that broke down the Czech Republic.

Need to score early against teams that set out to just park the bus. Vardy or Lallana take their chances and we probably romp home when Slovakia have to chase it.

If Portugal win their group, they face Belgium. If they come second in their group, they face England

Poland who I think are far better than Slovakia...you mean that Poland team. I didn't conveniently forget them...I just don't think a draw against them is as poor as ours against Slovakia.

Don't Germany also currently have just one out and out striker...I do believe we have 3 who are all supposedly top class.

Anyhow clearly we see things vastly differently, your happy with 2nd place in arguably the 2nd weakest group of the tournament..I'm not. Your happy with less goals and points this team around than Euro 2012..I'm not. We may have got out of the group unlike 2014 WC but I wouldn't have expect anything less in first place with the other 3 teams in it!

England are doing fine. About par. Wales have benefited a little from the fact they are little Wales and people outside of us would have targeted them for points, and that Russia had to win. Russia played for the draw against us and so did Slovakia.

We could win or lose to Portugal, but to be honest the damage is after. We won't have a sniff even if we do get past them. France Germany and Spain are the only teams of quality and they would all beat us.

Wales/Belgium quarter final must be on now. Could be interesting. They have the players to stop Bale, but goodness knows if they'll turn up. Wales won't choke, they'll just play and everyone will expect to beat them so they will always have teams open to leaving space.

Don't think France are anything special to be honest and the pressure is only going to ramp up on them.

owen10ozzy wrote: Your happy with less goals and points this team around than Euro 2012..I'm not.

That's a good point. A dilapidated and disjointed England managed to defeat Sweden and host nation Ukraine in Euro 2012, and get a credible draw versus France - this time, a 92nd minute winner v Wales, and two draws against Slovakia and Russia - hardly progress.

owen10ozzy wrote:Poland who I think are far better than Slovakia...you mean that Poland team. I didn't conveniently forget them...I just don't think a draw against them is as poor as ours against Slovakia.

Don't Germany also currently have just one out and out striker...I do believe we have 3 who are all supposedly top class.

Anyhow clearly we see things vastly differently, your happy with 2nd place in arguably the 2nd weakest group of the tournament..I'm not. Your happy with less goals and points this team around than Euro 2012..I'm not. We may have got out of the group unlike 2014 WC but I wouldn't have expect anything less in first place with the other 3 teams in it!

Now, Owen, you aren't watching the games in comments like that. It's just "team a is better than team b" whereas Poland had the best chances in that game and Germany created nothing. Also not sure how it's an excuse that Germany have chosen to play a style; there are other German strikers they could have picked if they had wanted.

Maybe you have no realism. England have done fine. Germany are better than them. So are Spain. At the end of the day England have given away about one chance and got punished for it. It's not a drama, really. Today they needed Carroll, (and arguably Noble) but people didn't want that option and we don't have it. People such as yourself wanted England to play possession football and be more modern. And we did what "good" teams do, but we don't have a Champions League level striker.

Funny, but after all the Rooney bashing, how I wish we had a striker who scored goals against poor teams...

Portugal stands as much chances of winning that group than finishing last. Hungary will probably park the bus as with one point they are almost guaranteed the 1st spot (unless Iceland scores more than 2 goals against Austria which is well not that likely)

Im hoping Will Grigg gets a run out tomorrow.

Be a waste if he doesnt.

Pressure is getting thrown around far too much.

Poland aren't any better than Slovakia, they get boosted up for having one household name and a couple of other decent players, performances in qualification were pretty similar, so much so they beat Germany and Spain at home respectively.

Second round predictions or looking likely

France vs Northern Ireland
Wales vs Czech Republic
England vs Hungary
Portugal vs Belgium
Italy vs Croatia
Switzerland vs Poland
Spain vs Slovakia
Germany vs Austria

Gotta say, Henderson and Wilshere both looking fantastic picks. Well done Roy for sending Drinkwater home and not having a look at Noble. And good to see Roy has found a new position as a winger for Sturridge. Who'd have known he had been wasting all that time as a striker.

Roy

Should of gone post WC

Roy's in a defiant mood: 

"Soon we will make someone pay, we will score goals one day," said Hodgson, 68.
"You just don't know, the way we are playing I am not frightened of anybody."


One day, it'll all come good...

Don't think 5 points and 2nd place is something England can be happy with. Not sure the team that started against Wales would have done much better tonight though. Shame that England often look completely devoid of ideas so quickly.

Actually think the choices of teams England may face could be easier than if they won the group though. Group F is such a weak group, I'd expect England to beat Austria, Hungary and probably Portugal. Particularly in a knock out format.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Gotta say, Henderson and Wilshere both looking fantastic picks. Well done Roy for sending Drinkwater home and not having a look at Noble. And good to see Roy has found a new position as a winger for Sturridge. Who'd have known he had been wasting all that time as a striker.

I agree on the second point, but do you actually think having Noble and Drinkwater playing today instead of Henderson and Wilshere would have made much difference? I think even if it was Rooney and Alli they'd have had the same problem. Noble and Drinkwater are hardly creative masters. Drinkwater in particular is very one-dimensional and I don't think he's international level at all. Expect him to seriously struggle in the Champions League next season.

Duty281 wrote:Roy's in a defiant mood: 

"Soon we will make someone pay, we will score goals one day," said Hodgson, 68.
"You just don't know, the way we are playing I am not frightened of anybody."


One day, it'll all come good...

This is the problem I have with this kind of comment; for all the possession comments, shots at goal stats, how comfortable we look in games  from both Hodgson and posters online etc the simple fact of the matter is teams have allowed us those things! It's easy to have 30 shots at goal when a team sit on the edge of the box, it's easy to dominate possession when teams allow you too. The challenge comes when they don't. One day it may come...but to win these tournaments is a knockout phase...something which doesn't make room for 'one day'..because by time that day comes you may already be sat at home wondering what might have been.


Do you think we will get 65% possession against Spain, Germany etc..no. Will those teams allow us to shoot at goal from all areas..no. We will have to be clever on the ball, we will have to show intelligence in our passing decisions, we will have show some guile and creativity in the final pass. These are all things that I personally think we will fail to do. Tonight for instance...for all the ball we had and time on the ball we had...we properly tested the keeper 4 times (Lallana, Vardy, Clyne and possibly Sturridge on the over the top ball). That doesn't fill me with confidence going into the knockout phase.

We may get one opportunity to spot and play that killer ball, one opportunity  to take a half chance...one corner in the whole game to test the opposition..do people believe we have shown the ability to take advantage of those situations against better teams than ourselves?

And added to this woe, England have a poor defence. When they come up against France, they won't even be able to hold on for penalties like they did four years ago versus Italy!

Hey look 2nd place and a paucity of goals is disappointing - no argument. But given not particularly high confidence going in to the tournament I'd say the glass is currently about half full.
Playing against teams who actually want to try and score - and are good enough to do so - carries some danger (and I am concerned about a defence which sometimes looks a little wobbly) ; but on the other hand it is likely to mean chances will fall to the strikers at some point... just have to be able to take them. In fairness , Sturridge and Vardy did so against Wales - just didn't tonight. Doesn't mean they'll miss next week...

Whether it is Portugal , Hungary - or Iceland - I give this England side at least an even chance of winning. After that it gets tricky , sure : but what did anyone expect ? 6/10 for the Group Stage. Let's hope it gets better...

Is it some sort of archaic FA by-law that England must take at least one unfit player to a major tournament? Do it every time and it never works.

I have a feeling that the people moaning about England's style were the same people who were moaning that you have to keep the ball at international level 2 years ago.

Our first half performance was fine last night. Quick passing, the ball was won back quickly, and we created some chances. Second half petered out a little, though we still created a couple even though Slovakia had 10 men behind the ball, and seemed to block everything we threw at them.
Another day may have seen us score early and go and get a few more once they came out and played ball, but not to be. I'm hopeful we're still make the quarters, and then with a bit of luck, beyond.

Depending on how the groups finish it we could actually end up with an easier second round game than Wales. Obviously Roy being the tactical genius that he is had thought about this before the Slovakia game.

I think the media have really overreacted to the changes made last night. I didn't think that the team was significantly weaker, Sturridge and Vardy were likely to play anyway. I thought the only player to play significantly worse than the players they replaced were Bertrand and Wilshere, for Rose and Wilshere. 

I think even if you started the team that played against Wales, we'd have seen a similar result. Let's not forget that the "first choice" side struggled to break down both Russia and Wales. I think the changes were not the problem at all last night and it's been blown out of proportion.

Also I wish Skrtel could have played like that for Liverpool more last season, he was an absolute rock. Probably the best individual defensive performance of the tournament so far. I think any of the lower-table teams who play with a deeper line should be thinking of going in for him. In that kind of system I think he'd be great.

With my predictions Czech Republic finish above Croatia on fair play and Croatia play Wales in the last 16. That would be funny.

I think it's very easy for limited defenders like Skrtel to play in a system where they sit deep enough where's there's no space behind them and there's cover sat deep ahead of them from midfielder.

Probably extended Terrys career by a year or two. Issue is you can't play that way every game as we've seen in England's games, it's very difficult to create any opportunities when you play that way.

GSC wrote:I think it's very easy for limited defenders like Skrtel to play in a system where they sit deep enough where's there's no space behind them and there's cover sat deep ahead of them from midfielder.

Probably extended Terrys career by a year or two. Issue is you can't play that way every game as we've seen in England's games, it's very difficult to create any opportunities when you play that way.

I agree for top teams, but think that's a good system for a team further down the league, hence why I think Skrtel would be a really good signing for that kind of side.

Can't sit in your own half every game still.

GSC wrote:Can't sit in your own half every game still.

Obviously, but I don't think Skrtel is awful at doing the opposite either. He's been playing in a high line for 5 years now at Liverpool and doing pretty well, so I think a team that plays predominantly defensively would suit him. I think West Brom would likely be a great fit, Olsson and McAuley are pretty old now. Skrtel would be their best defender immediately.