Euro 2016 Discussion

by GSC Mon 27 Jun 2016, 8:18 pm

First topic message reminder :

Thats an awful pass from Kane

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 29 Jun 2016, 9:40 pm

He won the Ballon D'Or because he captained Italy to the world cup. I think you're massively under rating how good Ferdinand was on the ball, he started off in midfield and occasionally played there for Man United. I think we English have a habit of ignoring that some of our players are technically brilliant, the same happened to Scholes, not being a typical 'English' style player worked against them to an extent.

by Nico the gman Wed 29 Jun 2016, 9:59 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He won the Ballon D'Or because he captained Italy to the world cup. I think you're massively under rating how good Ferdinand was on the ball, he started off in midfield and occasionally played there for Man United. I think we English have a habit of ignoring that some of our players are technically brilliant, the same happened to Scholes, not being a typical 'English' style player worked against them to an extent.

Certainly rate Ferdinand, but Cannavaro was a 5ft 9 CB who had everything even good in the air for he's height, all time great, as for Scholes, International career ruined by a Swedish idiot, who played him out of position, sickened him to the point of International retirement at 29, better than both Gerrard and Lampard, would have had 100 caps had he been any other nationality, not good, brilliant world class player for me, Pogba's worth £75 mill, Scholes is £90mill, won't forgive Eriksson for that, very sore point.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 29 Jun 2016, 10:09 pm

Not disputing that Cannavaro was a world class defender, just think that Ferdinand was every bit as good, in my opinion was both England and Man United's most important player, huge miss during Euro 2004.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 29 Jun 2016, 10:17 pm

Rio didn't start off in midfield. In fact, youth wise he had a small spell as a striker but then became a centre back. I'm not sure he played a minute in midfield for us and he was on from young.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 29 Jun 2016, 10:18 pm

I prefer Rio by the way. Best centre back the English game has seen in my lifetime. Cannavaro and Nesta were unreal players too but I think Rio was underrated a bit cos people thought he was dumb.

by Ent Wed 29 Jun 2016, 11:45 pm

Ferdinand beat centre half I've ever seen, trying to split greats here imo.

by **Hero** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 12:01 am

Always be biased on this one myself after Rio went out of his way on a day off to spend half an hour to do one on one training with my son.

by VTR Thu 30 Jun 2016, 9:29 am

Rio was a world class* player and certainly a ball playing centre half. Anyone arguing otherwise is either thinking of Anton Ferdinand or letting some kind of bias against him as a character take hold

*not using that term lightly - one of the very few England players since I have been watching them (from Italia 90) that deserve that label

by Stella Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:41 am

Since 1990? We've had a few.

Gazza
Lineker
Shearer
Seaman
A Cole
Scholes
Becks
Gerrard
Lampard
Rooney
Owen
Ferdinand
Campbell
Terry

I may have missed some.

by Guest Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:47 am

World class?

Lineker
A Cole
Gazza
Ferdinand
Scholes
Owen

Rest were not

by Stella Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:48 am

Not Sir Gary?

by VTR Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:49 am

Stella wrote:Since 1990? We've had a few.

Gazza - had the potential but injuries and drink mean he did not convert his talent to be the player he should have been
Lineker
Shearer
Seaman
A Cole
Scholes - certainly, but gave up on internationals at 29 when he was coming into his prime because Sven thought he was a left winger
Becks
Gerrard - could never produce club form on the international stage
Lampard
Rooney - too many poor tournaments to be considered world class
Owen - agree, but always seemed to be injured leading up to or during major tournaments
Ferdinand
Campbell
Terry

I may have missed some.

Good list, but I do have question marks on some of them as noted. I can't think of any others to add to it. Either way, over 26 years that isn't many

by **Crimey** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 11:30 am

LiamB wrote:World class?

Lineker
A Cole
Gazza
Ferdinand
Scholes
Owen

Rest were not

if Gascoigne, Scholes and Owen are considered world class then Gerrard definitely is. You can't be marking it down to who produced on international level, because you included Scholes. Otherwise it'd make sense as the other five did produce the same form at international level.

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 11:43 am

Gerrard & Lampard were definitely world class in their primes.

by nadeem2099 Thu 30 Jun 2016, 11:47 am

I'm so proud of Raheem Sterling! You can tell how much he missed his luxury cars and diamond sinks when he was at the Euros.

Spoiler:

by **Crimey** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 11:51 am

What a nob.

by Nico the gman Thu 30 Jun 2016, 12:34 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Not disputing that Cannavaro was a world class defender, just think that Ferdinand was every bit as good, in my opinion was both England and Man United's most important player, huge miss during Euro 2004.

Your entitled to your opinion but Cannavaro wasn't just a world class defender he was an all time great defender, he arguably plays in any world 11, only 3 defenders in history have won the Ballon d or and he's one of them, Beckenbauer been one of the others, Ferdinand was a superb defender, but neither of us are going to change our opinions on who was the best, so I shall respect your opinion and leave it at that.

by compelling and rich Thu 30 Jun 2016, 1:24 pm

i thought ronaldinho should have won it in 2006. the key player in getting barcalona winning the champions league scoring 26 goals and 23 assists, but like many of these things far too much sway was given to what happened in the world cup. in which brazil were disappointing. cannavaro was good and got most plaudits being captain but thought buffon was italys best player in that comp.

by Scottrf Thu 30 Jun 2016, 1:40 pm

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You can make it completely risk free by going over 0.5 goals before the game and betting on 0-0 in play. Will mean you win £325 if the game is 0-0 or £5 otherwise. Or you can choose another scoreline and cover the 0-0 separately.

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by Born Slippy Thu 30 Jun 2016, 2:29 pm

Stella wrote:Since 1990? We've had a few.

Gazza
Lineker
Shearer
Seaman
A Cole
Scholes
Becks
Gerrard
Lampard
Rooney
Owen
Ferdinand
Campbell
Terry

I may have missed some.

I'd probably add Gary Neville - as a right back there weren't too many better. Paul Ince as well maybe?

by Hammersmith harrier Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:00 pm

The only truly world class English players in my life time would probably be;

Lineker
Shearer
A Cole
Scholes
Gerrard
Owen
Ferdinand

There's a few very very good ones like Rooney, Neville, Beckham and Lampard but wouldn't consider them quite on the level of the above.

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:09 pm

Lampard was pretty obviously world class in his prime. 150 PL goals from midfield, 2nd in PL assists behind Giggs I think, runner up to Ronaldinho in both player of the year awards in 2005.

Also he's a twunk, but Terry was among the worlds best during his prime also.

by Stella Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:20 pm

Beckham has been arguably England's best attacking player since he started playing. I'd have him as world class, during his prime years.

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:22 pm

I have Beckham in the tier below, think his reputation exceeded his performances a bit

by Duty281 Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:24 pm

Why are we missing out Heskey, lads?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpnHaJmUFpA

by Hammersmith harrier Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:29 pm

GSC wrote:Lampard was pretty obviously world class in his prime. 150 PL goals from midfield, 2nd in PL assists behind Giggs I think, runner up to Ronaldinho in both player of the year awards in 2005.

Also he's a twunk, but Terry was among the worlds best during his prime also.

Statistically Lampard is better than he actually was, world class for me is the best of the very best, neither he nor Terry were.

by Guest Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:30 pm

Notch wrote:
Rowley wrote:For what they're worth here are my views on England's woes. My own view is that England players are just not very good. Accept we should be good enough to beat Iceland but the crucial difference is teams who accept their limitations cut their cloth tactically around those limitations, as Iceland did last night. England genuinely think they're one of the of the best teams in the world and such things as tactical adjustments or putting a big man up top are beneath them.

It is a complete delusion created and fed into by Sky and BT, best league in the world, most exciting league in the world, shown on 307 planets or whatever other marketing guff they spout. Go through the league, who are the best keepers in it, De Gea and Cech, who are the best centre halves, Kompany and Vertongen, pretty much go through every position and none of the best players are English. Hell, Wilshire is that good we'll take him not fit, he barely gets in the Arsenal side if everyone is fit.

Think about it how many premier players in recent years have Barca or Real Madrid genuinely tried to buy, Bale, Suarez, De Gea, Mascherano and Henry, something of a theme there. You've got to go back to Beckham and Owen since they were interested in anyone English. They're rubbish and should accept it. Once they have accepted it they may, like other teams who are rubbish, appreciate they may have to make up for their deficiencies in ability through such things as tactical astuteness or graft.

Well said. I'm always completely bemused by the hype around England every two years- they've won two knockout games since Italia 90, which puts them on four knockout wins in my lifetime. I expected them to beat Iceland unconvincingly before going out in the quarters, so I am surprised at the manner of their exit- I probably overestimated them a bit. But their record shows that they are not a top-tier side who will always be amongst the contenders at a major tournament. They are a decent mid-tier side that can realistically expect to qualify for the big tournaments every time but once they get there, anything past the group stages should be considered a major plus. Players come and go, managers come and go, but the results have been the same for 26 years now. Maybe thats just their natural level.

Good posts, I concur.

Unrealistic expectations when in reality we don't have good players - simple.

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:31 pm

Lampard was voted the 2nd best player in the world by 2 different awards. He was a great player, statistically or otherwise.

by Nico the gman Thu 30 Jun 2016, 3:53 pm

What makes world class players stand out from good players is that they do it on the big stage in the big tournaments when it counts, and our so called world class players have failed miserably in that respect.

by Duty281 Thu 30 Jun 2016, 7:16 pm

I fancy the Poles tonight. thumbsup

by Duty281 Thu 30 Jun 2016, 8:05 pm

Full-back misses the interception. Lewandowski finishes.

1-0.

by **Hero** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 8:07 pm

I got Poland in my work sweepstakes and was quietly happy with that at the time.

by Guest Thu 30 Jun 2016, 8:33 pm

Definite penalty, for me.

by **Crimey** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 8:35 pm

Think the way Ronaldo went down swayed the referee's opinion, seemed a little too theatrical.

by Guest Thu 30 Jun 2016, 8:35 pm

Renato wow

by **Hero** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 8:37 pm

How Utd let him slip after scouting him over 20 times this past season is mind boggling.

by Holymiky Thu 30 Jun 2016, 8:42 pm

Nice goal from him.

by **Crimey** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 8:42 pm

He's good but that goal took a big deflection.

Not sure United would have necessarily got him if Bayern were coming in for him as well.

by **Hero** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 9:03 pm

Utd could have had him wrapped up before he was on Bayern's radar.

by **Crimey** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 9:32 pm

I think Ronaldo isn't fully fit.

by Guest Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:16 pm

Del Bosque resigns

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:24 pm

Crimey wrote:I think Ronaldo isn't fully fit.

Would help explain his sub par tournament - well below his usual standards

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:33 pm

Doesn't feel like he's ever turned up for one of these tournaments. Messi similar

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:38 pm

Ronaldo's ****ed if keepers ever realise to dive to their right.

by Ent Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:39 pm

He does go left enough times to keep them honest.

Interesting he took the first one. Think he's low on confidence/under pressure in this tournament.

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:40 pm

Play the percentages, you're right more often than not.

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:41 pm

3-3 after 6, some high class pens

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:41 pm

4-3 Nani

by Guest Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:44 pm

In the semi's & still haven't won a game in 90

by GSC Thu 30 Jun 2016, 10:44 pm

Portugal genuinely might be the crappiest side to ever get this far

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