Munster v Edinburgh, 24 September

by **George Carlin** Tue 20 Sep 2016, 9:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Munster v Edinburgh, 24 September - Page 2 Edinbu12

Munster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby
Saturday 24 September 2016
KO 15:00
Thomond Park, Limerick

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Ben Whitehouse (WRU, 28th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Gwyn Morris (WRU), Mark Patton (IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Eddie Wigglesworth (IRFU)
TMO: Jon Mason (WRU)

A. Head to Head

28 Played 28
22 Wins 6
6 Losses 22
0 Draws 0
64 Tries 50
43 Conversions 37
56 Penalties 65
1 Drop Goals 1
577 Points 522

B. Form

Munster Rugby: Good

Edinburgh Rugby: Pants

C. Teams

Munster Rugby
Munster v Edinburgh, 24 September - Page 2 Terryw10

Munster v Edinburgh, 24 September - Page 2 Terryw10

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Edinburgh Rugby
Munster v Edinburgh, 24 September - Page 2 Rory-b10

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by des Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:16 pm

Very big, and almost nothing there should anything go wrong.

Does an unused bench slot count as a rest for an international player?

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:20 pm

I know this is a minor point, but it's a very Scottish starting 15 with 13 out of the 15 SQ, with CDP qualifying this year.

Also good to see Hardie back on the bench, hopefully he is over the head knock.

by Sin é Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:20 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Tories overall have been centre-right but have generally not been as right wing as expected under Cameron. As for the EU referendum, the EU would not get off the ground if the treaties were actually voted on by voters. A massive flaw that is steadily being exposed. A hard exit where the Slovaks block a deal would be interesting. The Irish would be furious at a northern border. It is interesting times for the EU project. I believe it will fall apart into several levels with the UK joining Norway/Switzerland on the outer rim.

As for cuts to welfare, after 13 years of Labour it was bound to happen. It is a re-normalisation process and a realisation that there is "no money left". You are right of course that neither political party has a real vision. The problem is people with vision tend to do stupid stuff before getting to the top. That is now recorded and there is "outrage" from people about how someone told an impolite joke or was part of a rugby club that sung too loudly.

Plenty of countries had an opportunity to agree or reject treaties. Its up to your own country's Gov. to give that option. Even the UK had a referendum on joining the UK.

Denmark, France and Ireland had referenda to accept the Lisbon Treaty, with Ireland securing written legal guarantees on protecting Irish sovernity on Defence/EU army, tax and some social issues.

Norway has come out and said they don't want the UK in its trade block as it would unbalance it - at the moment the combined population is about 15m. At the moment, Norway is top dog and if the UK joined, it would want to be top dog.

Oh, and there isn't a chance that Ireland would leave the EU over a Northern border. Its more likely that Northern Ireland would leave the UK than Ireland the EU over that issue.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:36 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:I know this is a minor point, but it's a very Scottish starting 15 with 13 out of the 15 SQ, with CDP qualifying this year.

Also good to see Hardie back on the bench, hopefully he is over the head knock.

Du Preez is weeks away from being officially Scottish!

Well a lot of Edinburgh fans complain that too many NSQ players are picked (an outdated complaint IMO) - this is what they wanted so lets see how they get.

I've just noticed Alan Dell is covering tighthead on the bench - that won't end well. Scrums may be an issue this game.

by **BigGee** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:37 pm

Who is the back up TH, I thought Cosgrove and Dell were both loosie's. One of them must be able to cover both sides.

I am actually quite happy to see Bryce start at TH, after making the effort to change over, we need to see what he can do. Resting Nel at this stage in the season may well pay off further down the line, as might using a few more of the squad and making them think that they have a chance if they play well.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:38 pm

Munster XV: Ian Keatley; Darren Sweetnam, Keith Earls, Cian Bohane, Ronan O'Mahony; Tyler Bleyendaal, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Billy Holland - capt.; Dave O'Callaghan, Jack O'Donoghue, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Donnacha Ryan, Conor Oliver, Duncan Williams, Dan Goggin, Alex Wootton.

by **BigGee** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:40 pm

RDW just answered my question. To be honest, if he can switch, he might well get a lot more game time on that side, its THs that are in short supply and Berghan does not really look like he will fill the gap.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:42 pm

Munster don't have great depth at 7. JOD isn't very effective there. Hopefully Oliver gets a good chance to impress.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:43 pm

When Dell signed he was classed as both LH and TH but I'm not convinced he can cut it at tighthead - he isn't that big and has rarely played there. Hopefully he's good enough to play 20 minutes or so.

He has actually played well coming off the bench - Sutherland has been OK without hitting the heights of last season so he may find himself up the pecking order soon enough.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 1:47 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Munster don't have great depth at 7. JOD isn't very effective there. Hopefully Oliver gets a good chance to impress.

What's your thoughts on the Munster team generally? Out tighthead and midfield are our biggest unknowns. We haven't got a great bench either.

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Sep 2016, 2:10 pm

BigGee wrote:RDW just answered my question. To be honest, if he can switch, he might well get a lot more game time on that side, its THs that are in short supply and Berghan does not really look like he will fill the gap.

I think Berghan has shown during the limited gametime he's had so far (thanks Solly) he's actually an able deputy to Nel. Certainly when he's played he's either improved the team (coming on for Andress) or performed ok. I wouldn't write him off just yet.

RDW wrote:Sutherland has been OK without hitting the heights of last season so he may find himself up the pecking order soon enough.

Sutherland has looked very good so far this season in my opinion. Last week he continually had the beating of the opposition TH in the scrum. He's still young and can only improve but I think he's continued where he left off last season. That said Dell seems to have done ok when he's come on. It's nice to have a bit of depth at LH.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 2:21 pm

It's a fair point - I'm maybe being harsh on Sutherland.

My main point is Dell has looked good when he's come off the bench, which is a positive thing.

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Sep 2016, 2:29 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:It's a fair point - I'm maybe being harsh on Sutherland.

My main point is Dell has looked good when he's come off the bench, which is a positive thing.

Totally agree he's looked good when he came off the bench, I suspect though he might not be happy with just a bench slot for much longer. Ali & Rory are our 1st & 2nd choice LHs & Cosgrove is coming through there as well. Dell probably needs to move to get more playing opportunities.

by **BigGee** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 2:44 pm

No the jury is out on Berghan. He has not played much and does seem to have been injured a bit as well, though he has looked like he can scrum a bit when he has had chances.

Solly clearly never sees him as anything other than an impact sub. That may be a bit harsh on his part and we know he only seems to trust certain players but I would have to say that he is a big lump who does not look particularly fit.

He is probably never going to get his chance unless he can be trusted to be able to run around the pitch for at least half a game. I hope that he does get over this injury and gets the chance to show us what he can do. This year may otherwise be his last shot.

by **profitius** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 2:49 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Munster don't have great depth at 7. JOD isn't very effective there. Hopefully Oliver gets a good chance to impress.

What's your thoughts on the Munster team generally? Out tighthead and midfield are our biggest unknowns. We haven't got a great bench either.

The pack is good but the backs have done very little so far. The problem is the centers are not getting the ball out wide and after Murray theres a massive drop off in quality. Earls is back now so should give Munster a bit more cutting edge. Sweetnam has been playing excellently on the wing apart from forgetting to place the ball down when in the act of scoring a try!

Rory, Oliver looks impressive from what I've seen. He would be with Leinster only that he was unlucky to be behind VDF and Leavy. JOD is a rangy ball playing 8 so I'm not sure why they insist in playing him at 7.

As for the match, I think it'll be close enough.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 23 Sep 2016, 3:10 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Munster don't have great depth at 7. JOD isn't very effective there. Hopefully Oliver gets a good chance to impress.

What's your thoughts on the Munster team generally? Out tighthead and midfield are our biggest unknowns. We haven't got a great bench either.

The pack already looks much better this season with a lot of competition for places. The scrum especially has looked very powerful with John Ryan at tighthead. The line-out needs tightened up a bit and the back row is a little imbalanced without Tommy O'Donnell but apart from that, it looks more like what you would expect from Munster.

The midfield is a big issue. So many injuries affecting Munster there which is making it very difficult for the exciting outside backs (keep an eye on Sweetnam) to make much of an impact.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 3:12 pm

So basically both sets of backs are a bit 'meh', and the game will be won up front!

by Nematode Fri 23 Sep 2016, 4:07 pm

I feel that there are players starting in the backs that on past performances do not really merit their selection. For instance:

- I'd like to see more of Rory Scholes - if he was good enough to be starting for Ulster (and scoring against Edinburgh), he is good enough for the Edinburgh XV (I'd put him at FB). You would think he'd have good knowledge of the Irish teams so would be handy for a game vs Munster and would have a point to prove...

- Blair Kinghorn has impressed when he has played and looks like he could replace Matt Scott at 12 for Edinburgh. He needs to get more involved than just FB and with Weir and Tovey 10 won't get him gametime.

by **RDW** Fri 23 Sep 2016, 5:42 pm

Blair Kinghorn is going to be a good 15 and maybe 10, but he certainly isn't a 12!

by EWT Spoons Fri 23 Sep 2016, 7:02 pm

Yeah got to agree with that, let's not try and shoehorn players into the team for the sake of it

by **profitius** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 1:41 pm

I don't know what the weather is like in Limerick but down in cork it's been peeing all day!

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:12 pm

Blimmey, Kevin Bryce subbed off after 5 mins and 2 disastrous scrums. Never seen that before!

by **RDW** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:14 pm

Was he not even injured?

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:17 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Was he not even injured?

Don't think so, they said it was tactical. He got murdered in the first 2 scrums

by **RDW** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:18 pm

That's a big worry.

Has loosehead Dell improved things?

by Nematode Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:18 pm

Here's the thing - AS must have known how bad Kevin Bryce was if he was up against Nel in training. Why start him against Munster of all teams if you know he cannot scrummage?

by Nematode Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:20 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:That's a big worry.

Has loosehead Dell improved things?

From Munster's twitter feed, it doesn't look like it picard

by Artful_Dodger Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:22 pm

I have a link if anyone wants a pm.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:22 pm

Flip me. That was awful.

by Artful_Dodger Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:22 pm

I have a link if anyone wants a pm.

by Nematode Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:23 pm

And Fraser Mackenzie picks up a yellow card... Glad this game is away and on Sky. Don't think I'll bother keeping up with the scores via twitter.

by Artful_Dodger Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:23 pm

Missed the reason for the yellow card, what happened and who is injured?

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:25 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:Missed the reason for the yellow card, what happened and who is injured?

An attempted clear-out on Jack O'Donoghue ended up as a flying headbutt to the face. He has to leave on a stretcher.

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:26 pm

Nematode wrote:Here's the thing - AS must have known how bad Kevin Bryce was if he was up against Nel in training. Why start him against Munster of all teams if you know he cannot scrummage?

Probably lack of options had something to do with it, Nel can't play every game. Solly has tried that and it does not work. Dell is primarily a LH. He won a scrum penalty after he came on, then got destroyed in the next one! Jury out I think.

Edinburgh now down to 14. McKenzie in the bin for 10 for a reckless clear out and a Munster player stretchered off!

by demosthenes Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:26 pm

BigGee wrote:Blimmey, Kevin Bryce subbed off after 5 mins and 2 disastrous scrums. Never seen that before!

Doesn't look like its improved things any!

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:32 pm

Munster are getting destroyed at the breakdown here.

by **RDW** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:33 pm

I'm assuming the game isn't very good given the lack of points in 30 minutes.

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:33 pm

This ref wants players to release immediately, has pulled up both teams on it so far

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:35 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm assuming the game isn't very good given the lack of points in 30 minutes.

If Edinburgh come out of a sin bin still 0-0 they will be pretty happy

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:36 pm

and Edinburgh score a man down. Ball popped out of the side of the ruck into Chris Dean hands, bye bye

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:37 pm

and Weir kicks the extras

by **RDW** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:38 pm

Are both teams so attackingly inept that we might actually win this?

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:41 pm

Push over try Munster, probably no sense in collapsing it as it would just have cost us a card and a PT

by Pot Hale Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:44 pm

Sounds like it's going to be one of those days scrabbling at the coal face.

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 3:56 pm

Edinburgh give away a crazy try when SHC fumbles on his own line, all came from getting mashed in another scrum unfortunately

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 4:14 pm

Duncy Weir misses a soft tackle to let Munster in for their 3rd try. A long way back for Edinburgh now, playing into a stiff breeze now as well

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 24 Sep 2016, 4:22 pm

Bradbury looks like an excellent player.

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 4:26 pm

Dell goes into the bin as well. Uncontested scrums now, which might work to Edinburgh's advantage. Makes a mockery of the tactical substitution earlier though, surely Bryce should come back on

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 4:27 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Bradbury looks like an excellent player.

A rare bright spot!

by **BigGee** Sat 24 Sep 2016, 4:34 pm

Crikey that was a bit of a farce, no one seems to know what to do with the front row

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