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[kwinigolfer]

First topic message reminder :

There . . . .

[pedro]

Super, as I have said before, TW in the team is a huge advantage for Europe. In fact the US haven't won with him on the team since 1999.

So I was more relating to the fact that he WAS on the team - and in this context they should have hidden him. They can't undo picking him. 2 fourball sessions would have been appropriate. Less would cast doubt on the captains judgment on actually picking him, and already he only played Phil (another pick) once.

[kwinigolfer]

Kwini, where is “they”? And how would you like a statement like that announced. How do you define underachiever (does RC really come into a career being judged, I wouldn’t give it more than a passing consideration). You can only under achieve if you had specific targets, so what were Ricky’s, bearing in mind he’s 29?

Digs,
I suppose that this assessment is relative to the amount of ink and other media attention he gets, but he still has only four Tour wins, plus just 3 RC wins in four matches - and the pundits over here still talk about him in the same breath as their top players. No he's not!
As golfchannel.com assesses: He "ended with a familiar whimper. For all the promise he brings, he is what his record says he is" (which is won 3, lost 7, halved 5).


Seems like Justine Reed is fuelling the fire of the Reed/Spieth split: "Maybe you should ask Jordan why he didn't want to play with Patrick. You don't have to love the people you work with - but when you have chemistry and success, you go with it for the TEAM."

Most losses in Ryder Cup history:
22: Mickelson (in 12 matches)
21: Woods (in 8 matches) - tied with Coles and Himself

[LondonTiger]

Rumours out that not everyone was happy with the Spieth/Reed split. Apparantly it was Spieth who wanted to play with JT.

“The issue’s obviously with Jordan not wanting to play with me, I don’t have any issue with Jordan. When it comes right down to it, I don’t care if I like the person I’m paired with or if the person likes me as long as it works, and it sets up the team for success. He and I know how to make each other better. We know how to get the job done.”

[JAS]

What were the stats in terms of matches played/points won in the end for the picks?

I’m pretty sure that stats will say Bjorn chose smarter but as I think most would agree it was about more than just points delivered with the picks. I.e. European picks enhanced the dressing room, American picks sucked the life out of it.

Besides the better picks I think the Europeans benefitted significantly from course knowledge under competition conditions in other words that stat that said American team had played a cumulative  8 competitive rounds on the course while European team had notched up over 200.  I seriously think that’s a factor the Yanks just completely miss. Both Gleneagles and Celtic Manor were used as ET venues before their staging.

Finally  there’s the world rankings, these flatter the Americans possibly to the point of complacency a) because PGATour prizemoney is greater so ranking points greater (yes I know a significant portion of our team also play on the PGAT) and b) they are predominately strokeplay based.

That’s my views on the contributing factors as to how emphatic the victory was in the end.

[raycastleunited]

Why did Woods not follow team uniform? He had black trousers on, others had white. Tells you all you need to know about how he feels about being part of a team.

He wore his rain gear yesterday as he didn't want to be seen wearing those ghastly Phil-like striped strides. Looked like the same thing today, but couldn't tell for sure.

I noticed that too. He was wearing the navy USA team rain trousers... part of the team uniform but given the sunny weather it was obviously because he didn't like the standard trousers. Come to think of it, I have never ever seen Tiger wear white trousers.

However, the Europeans did the same on Saturday.... half the team tried to hide their ghastly brown outfits.

[raycastleunited]

Further to this, I think you need to go back a long way (maybe Brookline 99) to find a worse outfit than the Euros kitsch 70s brown/beige combo. I think team USA won the style war this year with their Ralph Lauren gear (apart from the USA logo on the trouser leg). Small consolation.

[pedro]

Apart from the striped pants the US outfit was far classier than thre European. You should have seen the Euro Thursday outfit: Lemon yellow, they looked like easter chickens. Yiikes. The rust coloured was dodgy too, not the colour itself, but the design and general appreance of the fabric, and the yellow and blue stripes across the chest yesterday was so last year. Can't see why we can't do better.

[pedro]

Further to this, I think you need to go back a long way (maybe Brookline 99) to find a worse outfit than the Euros kitsch 70s brown/beige combo. I think team USA won the style war this year with their Ralph Lauren gear (apart from the USA logo on the trouser leg). Small consolation.

hear hear

[wiretapper]

I was just watching a short overview while on lunch there and I know I'm being greedy but Rose and Rahm loosing their fourball on Friday morning still stings

[McLaren]

I think I mentioned earlier that not many of the individual matches at this years RC were very tight and now clearly the overall score wasn't all that close. 

And looking at the winning margins this century they don't tend to be all that close; 7, 6, 5, 1, 1, 5, 9, 9, 3.  Giving an average winning margin of 5.  With only 2 USA wins to Europe's 7.

The RC is about as competitive as a top 4 team in the EPL playing a mid table side, usually the winning margins are comfortable but over a decade or so the middle tear team will nick a couple of home wins.  Think the record a team like Man Utd would have over an Everton or Spurs (back in the day).  It does beg the question just why there is so much hype?

[Roller_Coaster]

Only saw the beeb highlights but from what I saw it looked good and was played in the right spirit. Was pretty close yesterday for a good while too, score could have been anything from fractional loss to the battering the scoreline appears to suggest. Very sporting in defeat from the US and not too "rub your face in it" from the winners. Reed's "shush" at the end of his game was very funny, hats off to him for that and applauding the crowd with a smile immediately thereafter.

Crowd were in the main good I thought, I don't like the booing of players - even if it wasn't much (that I heard), and similarly I don't like the enthusiastic cheering for bad shots from the opposition but (as ever) it was only the small minority. Good shots applauded all round. Unfortunately, Mashed Potato! was there along with other idiotic shouts.

Course was fantastic and brutal. Premium for plotting your way round and punished for getting offline, which I thought was the overall difference between the 2 sides. I doubt the US venue will be set up anything like that penal. Bang, lob and putt golf, which Europe aren't as good as the US at. No problem with that in and of itself, but I hope the Ryder Cup doesn't get like test cricket seems to be where home advantage now feels like it's more of a decider than the players and the play.

All in all, I'd give it a

[GPB]

Tiger wore white trousers earlier in the week.  Friday in fact.  But yes, he apparently doesn't like white trousers.  I am pretty sure he had white trousers underneath the rain pants.

I really don't like the look of white pants, especially if they are not opaque.

This is not a good look:

Rory:

[McLaren]

If wozniaki is to be believed Rory doesn't have much to show of below the belt. So maybe avoid that style Rory.

[JAS]

If wozniaki is to be believed Rory doesn't have much to show of below the belt. So maybe avoid that style Rory.

Another comment that smacks of “I’m not getting it at the moment so i’ll Have a pop at somebody else’s prowess”. Do you have a source/confirmation for Wozzers assertion?

Wasn’t it nice to see Sergio get the all time points record Mac? D’ya reckon Mrs Garcia got it large last night?

[Roller_Coaster]

No spitting in the hole references please.

[GPB]

If wozniaki is to be believed Rory doesn't have much to show of below the belt. So maybe avoid that style Rory.

Another comment that smacks of “I’m not getting it at the moment so i’ll Have a pop at somebody else’s prowess”. Do you have a source/confirmation for Wozzers assertion?

Wasn’t it nice to see Sergio get the all time points record Mac? D’ya reckon Mrs Garcia got it large last night?

Apparently Moliwood "got some" last night

https://twitter.com/RyderCupEurope/status/1046688393005060096

[McLaren]

Gpb that's funny but the butchered the joke. Shouldn't frankie have said 4 out of 5 followed by Tommy saying I give you 5 out of 5?

[McLaren]

Jas

Can't remember the source but super seems more into tennis so maybe he can help. They way I remember it she hinted at it via a silly joke rather than outright saying it.

[raycastleunited]

If wozniaki is to be believed Rory doesn't have much to show of below the belt. So maybe avoid that style Rory.

Another comment that smacks of “I’m not getting it at the moment so i’ll Have a pop at somebody else’s prowess”. Do you have a source/confirmation for Wozzers assertion?

Wasn’t it nice to see Sergio get the all time points record Mac? D’ya reckon Mrs Garcia got it large last night?

Mrs Garcia is American, so too Mrs McIlroy. Don't know Casey's current status but if he is attached she will undoubtedly be American too. I wonder how these partners reacted to the result? If anything I think it's more likely they withdrew their affections last night....

[Guest]

Don't know Casey's current status but if he is attached she will undoubtedly be American too

English. Paul is with Pollyanna Woodward. She used to present Gadget Show

[Be_the_ball]

I wonder how much the Spieth/Reed issue threw a spanner in the works for Furyk's planned picks? There were certainly some very odd pairings sent out. Was he rushed and into changing things up?

As for Tiger, this is the one RC I'd give him a pass on, he's had a long season and is really just coming back from major surgery. Plus he's the oldest looking 42 year old I think I've ever seen. His focus is majors, let him focus on that.

[super_realist]

Did 9C and Mad Scientist play together because they both have the Bridgestone ball?

[super_realist]

If wozniaki is to be believed Rory doesn't have much to show of below the belt. So maybe avoid that style Rory.

Another comment that smacks of “I’m not getting it at the moment so i’ll Have a pop at somebody else’s prowess”. Do you have a source/confirmation for Wozzers assertion?

Wasn’t it nice to see Sergio get the all time points record Mac? D’ya reckon Mrs Garcia got it large last night?

Mrs Garcia is American, so too Mrs McIlroy. Don't know Casey's current status but if he is attached she will undoubtedly be American too. I wonder how these partners reacted to the result? If anything I think it's more likely they withdrew their affections last night....

Ray, Casey is married to Pollyanna Woodward off The Gadget Show, I don't know if he got her in the good years, but she used to be a knockout.

[pedro]

Wozza once said she’s happy to finally be able to wear high heels again. Haven’t heard anything about a minimac though.

The Reed thing is now blowing up in US media. You can say he threw Spieth under the bus and Furyk was driving. Spieth and JT wanted to play together. No wonder if Reed (and Rickie?) were a bit p!ssed off.
Time for a new task force?

[raycastleunited]

GPB, When Reed holed a putt to win his match, he did his trademark finger to lips, but did it with an smile on his face and it was clearly a joke.
Harmon said it was a disgrace, but I think he must have been the only person who didn't realise that Reed was not being serious and was only having a laugh.

Given Reed's record, I don't think you can blame Harmon for thinking he was being serious.

How many sentences contain the phrases "Reed" and "lack of class"? And he's playing true to stereotype with his recent comments.

[pedro]

I think it was pretty obvious it was a joke. Those who think it wasn’t must be due to their inability to disguise their contempt for Reed.

[kwinigolfer]

If there was to be a contentious pairing, or divorce, surely that should have been all talked through weeks ago?
Most of the Europeans seemed to know who they'd be playing with and when. Why should it be a surprise to the US? And it doesn't say too much about the relationship between Reed and Woods - I thought they got on well together.
Also thought Reed's gesture after his win was just fine, good for him.

[Davie]

Reed is one of the few Americans I can really take to. I know he can be abrasive but he just seems to "get it". If we could transfer any USA players to Europe he would be one of the few I would take.

[NedB-H]

Seems to be mixed messages about the Reed/Spieth split. The first thing I read suggested everyone gave Cap’n Jim two names they’d like to play with:, Jordan said JT and Reed, and Patrick said Jordan and Tiger. If that’s true then Furyk’s decisions are perfectly reasonable and Reed needs to grow up, those are two good pairings on paper, and every team member having a couple of possible partners is perfectly normal.

Since I read that the narrative seems be changing to Jordan specifically saying he DIDN’T want to play with Reed, in which case I have more sympathy for the guy. While it’s understandable if Spieth wanted to pair with his best mate instead of a guy no one likes, Reed could still feel legitimately put out by being effectively ditched by someone he considered a mate. It’d be beholden on Furyk at that point to sit the two of them down and iron out their differences, though I don’t doubt that’s easier said than done when it comes to Reed. I wonder if Furyk missed a trick in hindsight by not playing to his ego: pair him with Finau or Bryson, and give him the line of “you’re my best Ryder Cup player, I can’t afford to waste you with Jordan, I need to mentor one of the kids to a couple of points”.

[pedro]

I think the Europeans got to know their pairings wed or thu morning. At least that was when Rory said he learned he’d play foursomes with Poults. Don’t think they’d know for sure much earlier, (some may), the rest of course have a hunch. The captains have an idea weeks before but I’m sure they’d want to see how the practise sessions turn out before settling 100%.

[pedro]

Dunno know what’s up and down re. Spieth/Reed. But I think it’s true the players gave two names if desired partners. Reed just interpreted it as being unchosen. All in all I think it falls back on Furyk not communicating differences well enough.

[GPB]

Reed did throw some shade onto Spieth back at the Bay Hill

https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2018/3/19/17137914/patrick-reed-ruling-dispute-arnold-palmer-invitational-2018

[GPB]

Seems to be mixed messages about the Reed/Spieth split. The first thing I read suggested everyone gave Cap’n Jim two names they’d like to play with:, Jordan said JT and Reed, and Patrick said Jordan and Tiger. If that’s true then Furyk’s decisions are perfectly reasonable and Reed needs to grow up, those are two good pairings on paper, and every team member having a couple of possible partners is perfectly normal.

Do you remember where you read this?

[Diggers]

Kwini, where is “they”? And how would you like a statement like that announced. How do you define underachiever (does RC really come into a career being judged, I wouldn’t give it more than a passing consideration). You can only under achieve if you had specific targets, so what were Ricky’s, bearing in mind he’s 29?

Digs,
I suppose that this assessment is relative to the amount of ink and other media attention he gets, but he still has only four Tour wins, plus just 3 RC wins in four matches - and the pundits over here still talk about him in the same breath as their top players. No he's not!
As golfchannel.com assesses: He "ended with a familiar whimper. For all the promise he brings, he is what his record says he is" (which is won 3, lost 7, halved 5).


Seems like Justine Reed is fuelling the fire of the Reed/Spieth split: "Maybe you should ask Jordan why he didn't want to play with Patrick. You don't have to love the people you work with - but when you have chemistry and success, you go with it for the TEAM."

Most losses in Ryder Cup history:
22: Mickelson (in 12 matches)
21: Woods (in 8 matches) - tied with Coles and Himself

But he qualified by right. You yourself were talking about earning qualification a week or so ago. So is it meant to be announced in advance he’s a career underachiever? What’s to be gained by that. Don’t really see your reason for having a go at him other than he, along with several others, had a poor RC. There are a lot of players who could be spoken of as underachievers with only 4 tour wins by 29.
I really do think far too much credit to the RC in terms of judging players careers, in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter a rats arse.

[super_realist]

No one is using the RC to judge any players career. It's a biannual event, but it's clear to see that Fowler hasn't fulfilled his hype and has blown many a good position to win.

He's still done better than dross like Jeff Overton, but he's certainly a player who should be disappointed with his career so far compared to what he should have achieved.

[GPB]

As of last Thursday, Chico has exactly ZERO wins in five matches in the Ryder Cup.

[Diggers]

I think they do, I see examples of it influencing views on here.
Has he blown many good positions to win? He’s been in contention but I can’t remember him having leads he’s thrown away (talking majors here). Usually a case of someone playing well to beat him, though I could be forgetting something. You could say he could have done better, but to label him as a career underachiever (again, he’s 29, though you do write off your footballers at 21 I suppose) seems very harsh, especially when a player like Rafa gets bigged up for...well a decent RC maybe?

[super_realist]

Bello isn't hyped up anywhere near the level that Fowler has been. He was up at near Wie levels of hysteria for a while, even awarded "Rookie of the year" before he even won a sausage.

He's a fine player, now he's got a reliable swing,  very much in the mould of Gordon Spieth and Justin Thomas, and he probably should have done as well as them but he's lacking somewhat for a player of his standard.

Yes, he's only 29, but look at what his peers have achieved in that time.

[Diggers]

I didn’t say he was hyped, I meant he gets praised for achieving not much. I think Fowler is popular, people like him and want him to well, I don’t feel there is a massive press saying he’s going to win stacks of majors.

[pedro]

Seems to be mixed messages about the Reed/Spieth split. The first thing I read suggested everyone gave Cap’n Jim two names they’d like to play with:, Jordan said JT and Reed, and Patrick said Jordan and Tiger. If that’s true then Furyk’s decisions are perfectly reasonable and Reed needs to grow up, those are two good pairings on paper, and every team member having a couple of possible partners is perfectly normal.

Do you remember where you read this?

NYT did the interview with Reed
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/sports/golf/ryder-cup-europe-united-states-egos.html

[super_realist]

I didn’t say he was hyped, I meant he gets praised for achieving not much. I think Fowler is popular, people like him and want him to well, I don’t feel there is a massive press saying he’s going to win stacks of majors.

I've only ever really heard people say that Bello has a good looking golf swing, much like they do with Els, Donald, Ogilvy etc. I haven't heard much about the rest of him other than he had a good Ryder Cup in 2016.

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