Plastic Pitches

I don't know if anyone feels the same way... But there's something not right with rugby on them when I watch it.

Is it just me?

I read an article somewhere in the last week that all the plastic pitches in Holland are being ripped up due to health concerns.

Maine man wrote:I read an article somewhere in the last week that all the plastic pitches in Holland are being ripped up due to health concerns.

That would be interesting to read.

I have also heard some players with past knee injuries can't play on them.

Watching Saracens today the play seemed more Rugby League than ever... Is their pitch narrower?

Yeah, I read about that when my team (Worcester) installed theirs. However I think much of that research is countered by other research, if you take my meaning. I think the main thing is that players make sure they don't eat the tiny plastic pellets that act as soil in some of these pitches! Worcester have decided to move away from plastic pellet infill and use coconut fibre instead - that seems like a good choice to me. As to the rugby I agree it is different but it is fast and exciting and will probably take a scrum all year round.

toml wrote:

Maine man wrote:I read an article somewhere in the last week that all the plastic pitches in Holland are being ripped up due to health concerns.

That would be interesting to read.

I have also heard some players with past knee injuries can't play on them.

Watching Saracens today the play seemed more Rugby League than ever... Is their pitch narrower?

There must be a standard dimension they have to adhere to?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/15/why-3g-pitches-are-being-ripped-up-in-holland-over-health-fears/amp/

toml wrote:Watching Saracens today the play seemed more Rugby League than ever... Is their pitch narrower?

Sarries played some cracking rugby yesterday. I like RL too, so is this a pop at Sarries, because they are a very entertaining side to watch nowadays?

I was always a bit opposed to artificial pitches (traditional play in all elements argument) but we get much, more consistent rugby with fewer stoppages on this surface.

Obviously health/injury concerns need to be taken into account.

I prefer plastic pitchs than some of those badly covered-up potato fields we often play rugby on in France.

Maine man wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/15/why-3g-pitches-are-being-ripped-up-in-holland-over-health-fears/amp/

It's no secret that the Dutch prefer grass.

Is there any plastic pitches in France whocares?

Oyonnax one as far as I know

I would like to see how Leicester's new pitch stands up this season. So far it looks good, though players are cramping more. It is real grass, on turf but bound by a plastic mesh underneath.

I heard a rumour Ulster are looking into it as well

There is more than one solution and I'd guess some are better than others.

LondonTiger wrote:I would like to see how Leicester's new pitch stands up this season. So far it looks good, though players are cramping more. It is real grass, on turf but bound by a plastic mesh underneath.

It looks much better than the full plastic ones, i'd say its probably better to play on.

toml wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I would like to see how Leicester's new pitch stands up this season. So far it looks good, though players are cramping more. It is real grass, on turf but bound by a plastic mesh underneath.

It looks much better than the full plastic ones, i'd say its probably better to play on.

As winter approaches I think we'll find out

It's the same as Twickenham isn't it? If so then it should last very well all year round.

Leicesters was one of the worst previously.

yappysnap wrote:It's the same as Twickenham isn't it? If so then it should last very well all year round.

Leicesters was one of the worst previously.

It was last season due to the concerts and building work being held but was fine before hand

toml wrote:I don't know if anyone feels the same way... But there's something not right with rugby on them when I watch it.

Is it just me?

Nope and I miss the Cardiff Arms Park mud fests.

I think I'm right in saying, but please correct me if I'm wrong...

There's a bit of a difference here and I'm not sure everyone is talking about the same thing. There's 3 and 4 G pitches (maybe even beyond that now) which are (I think) various degrees of synthetic fibres woven into real grass and turf or similar. Quite a few varieties of this but loads of modern sports sides have them. Desso is the big 'brand' and lots of football premierships sides have them, I believe Twickers and Aviva, Millennium Stadium now has a version, Ospreys and Scarlets in Wales, I'm sure some others in English rugby prem, loads of football sides in Europe too. I think you can check on wiki for teams sporting desso pitches. Essentially you wouldn't really know you're not on a grass pitch.

Then there's the out and out plastic pitches like Cardiff Blues and Saracens. Not sure fully what the difference is but they are very different. More towards the AstroTurf side of things I think. You could probably play on them in trainers!

Tigers pitch is a Eclipse Turf System, so not a plastic one.

The Eclipse Turf System pitch will be in place for the home game against the Ospreys next Friday (August 26) following a significant investment by the club.

The previous top turf has been removed since the end of last season and improvements made to the drainage, while the club has also taken the opportunity to install a sprinkler system to assist the groundstaff in the maintenance of the new surface.

Developed and installed by Lincolnshire-based County Turf, the pitch features natural turf held together by a sub membrane.

Ged Glynn, head of rugby operations at the Tigers, said: "The previous pitch has served us very well but everything has its lifespan and the Board gave the go-ahead to replace it with a new surface.

"County Turf is a very well respected name within the industry with clients across the UK and elsewhere in Europe, and the Eclipse system produces a hard-wearing and very consistent surface which is obviously important to us.

"This is completely natural turf, which is what we prefer at Welford Road. The only artificial element is in the membrane beneath the surface which keeps the turf tight and stable and reduces the possibility of divets and damage."

A section of turf was installed at the Oval Park training ground during last season to allow the playing and coaching staff to assess its credentials before getting the go-ahead to install the new pitch at Welford Road.

List of the two types of Desso pitches (Hybrid and fully artificial) can be found here.

http://www.dessosports.com/sports/rugby/rugby-projects

Sarries use a 3G surface (fully artificial) from a company callled SIS who also have their pitches at Newcastle and Leinster Lions.

Here's quite a long list of the Desso Grassmaster pitches including all 4 'home nations' international pitches (I wasn't aware that Murrayfield had one too):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

Can't see Blues or Saracens on there. I know players have talked about the pellets flying up off the Blues pitch and how there is a very different bounce to the ball.

Griff wrote:Here's quite a long list of the Desso Grassmaster pitches including all 4 'home nations' international pitches (I wasn't aware that Murrayfield had one too):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

Can't see Blues or Saracens on there. I know players have talked about the pellets flying up off the Blues pitch and how there is a very different bounce to the ball.

Desso didn't install the Sarries one, that was SIS. I think Cardiff and Glasgow used another comapny

nathan wrote:

Griff wrote:Here's quite a long list of the Desso Grassmaster pitches including all 4 'home nations' international pitches (I wasn't aware that Murrayfield had one too):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

Can't see Blues or Saracens on there. I know players have talked about the pellets flying up off the Blues pitch and how there is a very different bounce to the ball.

Desso didn't install the Sarries one, that was SIS. I think Cardiff and Glasgow used another comapny

Yeah, sorry wasn't suggesting they had a Desso pitch (although I did say they weren't on the list which might imply it). Just trying to point out that the Blues and Saracens pitches are completely different from the majority of hybrid pitches that sides plump for today.

So back to the OP. If it's hybrid style pitches like the MS, Twickers, Wembley, Ospreys, Scarlets, etc. then I don't see much difference from previous 100% mud and grass pitches, and nor do players from some reports. A lot of the time it's just the same but with fake grass sewn in as well. But yes, with pitches like Cardiff Blues it just doesn't look right watching rugby on it. The players seem to bounce funny off it when tackled; the ball skips and bounces weirdly; they look like they're playing NFL!

I agree 100% with you, it does look weird to me.

Hoping the tigers one works well, as has done at twickers. When did MS replace their pitch from ththe disaster

Griff wrote:So back to the OP. If it's hybrid style pitches like the MS, Twickers, Wembley, Ospreys, Scarlets, etc. then I don't see much difference from previous 100% mud and grass pitches, and nor do players from some reports. A lot of the time it's just the same but with fake grass sewn in as well. But yes, with pitches like Cardiff Blues it just doesn't look right watching rugby on it. The players seem to bounce funny off it when tackled; the ball skips and bounces weirdly; they look like they're playing NFL!

As I understand it, there are essentially two types of non- standard pitches.  Hybrid, which is the natural grass growing around a matrix of artificial fibres; and 100% artificial , which as you can guess has no natural component.  The hybrid plays almost totally like natural grass but doesn't offer as much enhanced playability as an artificial.  I think the approximate ratios are 1:3:10, so for every hour of play you get on a pure grass park the hybrid gives you three, and the artificial ten.  This is to do with amounts of maintenance etc.

So, ignoring cost factors, for grounds which are only used for match rugby the hybrid offers the best solution, but if there are other users, or seconds / academy / community users as well as training, artificial is preferred.

Couple of points, I think Sarries had to go with an artificial pitch due to the "community use" regulations that came with them being given permission to use the stadium.
The health point appears to be around the small rubber beads that are used on the pitches, there are some health issues which have possibly been identified with them being ingested by players.

Are they not also supposed to burn the skin when sliding on them? They wouldn't have the moisture levels of genuine grass and therefore friction burns might be an issue in an intense forward oriented game? No?

whocares wrote:I prefer plastic pitchs than some of those badly covered-up potato fields we often play rugby on in France.

Dead right, if it's a choice between a plastic pitch and that cabbage patch for the Montpellier-Leinster game yesterday, then I'll take plastic any day. Whocares, maybe you can enlighten us - do the French clubs not care about the state of their pitches - yesterday wasn't the first time I've seen a French game ending up being played on a ploughed field. And it can't be the weather - maybe I'm wrong but I'd imagine that in Ireland we get a lot more rain even in winter than the south of France but still the pitches here in Thomond, RDS, Ravenhill and even the Sportsground out on the wind and rainswept west coast seem to hold up.

brennomac wrote:

whocares wrote:I prefer plastic pitchs than some of those badly covered-up potato fields we often play rugby on in France.

Dead right, if it's a choice between a plastic pitch and that cabbage patch for the Montpellier-Leinster game yesterday, then I'll take plastic any day.  Whocares, maybe you can enlighten us - do the French clubs not care about the state of their pitches - yesterday wasn't the first time I've seen a French game ending up being played on a ploughed field.  And it can't be the weather - maybe I'm wrong but I'd imagine that in Ireland we get a lot more rain even in winter than the south of France but still the pitches here in Thomond, RDS, Ravenhill and even the Sportsground out on the wind and rainswept west coast seem to hold up.

The mucho bucks from Top14 go into the pokittzez of the owners and players. It's a 'people-first' sport in France, not a vegetable growing contest

Are a lot of the French sides playing in Stadiums owned by the Local Authorities and thus unable to invest in the surface (and of course the plus side is it costs them nowt - apart from having to clean muckier strips)

SecretFly wrote:Are they not also supposed to burn the skin when sliding on them?  They wouldn't have the moisture levels of genuine grass and therefore friction burns might be an issue in an intense forward oriented game?  No?

I see this has raised its head again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-39423293

Sounds to me like poor preparation (watering) of the pitch rather than an intrinsic issue, but them photos look - sore!

demosthenes wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Are they not also supposed to burn the skin when sliding on them?  They wouldn't have the moisture levels of genuine grass and therefore friction burns might be an issue in an intense forward oriented game?  No?

I see this has raised its head again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-39423293

Sounds to me like poor preparation (watering) of the pitch rather than an intrinsic issue, but them photos look - sore!

There's also speculation that synthetic pitches with those rubber pellet things are linked to cancer. Some study carried out in the Netherlands I think, or perhaps just some cases. Can't remember. But either way it was only a very small sample so not possible to draw any concrete conclusions.

Burn 'em all!!!

Plastic pitches that is.

Players have enough to worry about in rugby without thinking about friction burns which are no laughing matter. There just has to be a better solution. Clay/sand - sprayed green to keep the traditionalists like myself happy?

Are we going to see a time soon when players don't even where studded boots and are instead running out in plain daps (trainers to the non-welsh amongst us)?! Do you need studs to run on the Cardiff Blues, Glasgow and Saracens pitches?!

Coming next: barefoot rugby...

Griff wrote:Are we going to see a time soon when players don't even where studded boots and are instead running out in plain daps (trainers to the non-welsh amongst us)?!  Do you need studs to run on the Cardiff Blues, Glasgow and Saracens pitches?!

Coming next: barefoot rugby...

Oh goodie!!!!  Beachball Ladies Rugby Please!!!!!   Wonderfully skilled game... especially when you do a lot of close-up TMO slow-mo replays to make sure everything is legal...

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:Are we going to see a time soon when players don't even where studded boots and are instead running out in plain daps (trainers to the non-welsh amongst us)?!  Do you need studs to run on the Cardiff Blues, Glasgow and Saracens pitches?!

Coming next: barefoot rugby...

Oh goodie!!!!  Beachball Ladies Rugby Please!!!!!   Wonderfully skilled game... especially when you do a lot of close-up TMO slow-mo replays to make sure everything is legal...

Can we play it abroad ONLY please? Like Rio, for example. Or even Spain. Great away trips. Beats beach rugby in Wales in Winter with the ladies wearing head to toe fleece suits

I play 5-a-side twice a week on these 3/4 G surfaces and we all ware moulded stud boots, although you can ware proper studded boots, trainers/daps are not really ideal for these surfaces as the crumb acts like mud in the way you need to get a grip on it.

Also I will say, that I have been playing on these surfaces for years and have never had the injuries I saw the RGC1404 players have, nor have I seen anybody else who takes part on these surfaces with me have them, so I cannot say what happened at Sardis Rd.

SecretFly wrote:Are they not also supposed to burn the skin when sliding on them?  They wouldn't have the moisture levels of genuine grass and therefore friction burns might be an issue in an intense forward oriented game?  No?

I played for a few seasons in Hong Kong on these pitches, the ones that are well watered and with the rubber chip stuff on, they aren't that bad. Certainly saw anything like the injuries from that pitch. Everyone used moulded firm ground boots. Only real problem was the wet pitch + tropical climate meant you had to properly disinfect any cuts/grazes after the game or risk a skin infection.

There was one pitch (University IIRC) that was an unholy combination of particularly short, matted plastic grass and sand though Both sides tended to just avoid too much 'groundwork'.

nathan wrote:Tigers pitch is a Eclipse Turf System, so not a plastic one.

The Eclipse Turf System pitch will be in place for the home game against the Ospreys next Friday (August 26) following a significant investment by the club.

The previous top turf has been removed since the end of last season and improvements made to the drainage, while the club has also taken the opportunity to install a sprinkler system to assist the groundstaff in the maintenance of the new surface.

Developed and installed by Lincolnshire-based County Turf, the pitch features natural turf held together by a sub membrane.

Ged Glynn, head of rugby operations at the Tigers, said: "The previous pitch has served us very well but everything has its lifespan and the Board gave the go-ahead to replace it with a new surface.

"County Turf is a very well respected name within the industry with clients across the UK and elsewhere in Europe, and the Eclipse system produces a hard-wearing and very consistent surface which is obviously important to us.

"This is completely natural turf, which is what we prefer at Welford Road. The only artificial element is in the membrane beneath the surface which keeps the turf tight and stable and reduces the possibility of divets and damage."

A section of turf was installed at the Oval Park training ground during last season to allow the playing and coaching staff to assess its credentials before getting the go-ahead to install the new pitch at Welford Road.

That sounds like the same stuff Austin Healy used to advertise