Ulster v Munster

First topic message reminder :

Ulster team and replacements to play Munster, Friday 28th October, Kingspan Stadium (kick-off 7.05pm):
(15-9): C Piutau; T Bowe, L Marshall, D Cave, C Gilroy, P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring (capt), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F van der Merwe, R Diack, S Reidy, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, K McCall, A Warwick, C Ross, C Joyce, P Marshall, B Herron, J Stockdale.

Munster XV: Andrew Conway; Darren Sweetnam, Jaco Taute, Rory Scannell, Ronan O'Mahony; Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams; Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Donnacha Ryan, Billy Holland; Peter O'Mahony - capt., Tommy O'Donnell, Jack O'Donoghue.
Replacements: Vincent O'Brien, Brian Scott, Stephen Archer, Darren O'Shea, Robin Copeland, Abriel Griesel, Alex Wootton, Dan Goggin

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 139th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Gwyn Morris (WRU), John Carvill (IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Murray Whyte (IRFU)
TMO: Tim Hayes (WRU)

A touch of class from Ulster- doing the province proud and proving Irish Rugby really is a family. Also great to have the munster team get a very warm ovation from the crowd on the way onto the pitch

http://www.the42.ie/ulster-beer-munster-changing-room-belfast-3053290-Oct2016/?utm_source=facebook_short

marty2086 wrote:The Facebook critics are at it again, the Kiss out comments are beginning

They have a point. Somethings not right with this side and the buck stops with Kiss, although Kiss might like to blame it on Pienaar not "changing the direction of the game"...

Losing after being 14 points up is really very pathetic. What are these guys doing in training? Maybe the coaches need to pull some of the players aside, including Piutau and Bowe, and teach them some basic skills.

Why do we invite other sides to run at us by aimlessly kicking to them? Is that really under orders? Restarts are a joke. Breakdown no better.

On a positive note; great to see Herbst and Tuouy doing well on their return. Tuohy giving us that bit of missing dog. Marshall and Reidy played out of their skins. Ross didn't have a bad game either.

One small positive - Reidy made 25 tackles with 0 missed. That is mightily impressive. I do believe he has earned the 7 shirt but the back row needs to be formed into a combination that can function at the highest level. We would probably need a 6/8 who can compete more at the breakdown as that is an area where Reidy isn't quite as strong.

Obviously the main problem with that is two of our best back row options are injured longterm. Any word on when Chris Henry is expected to return?

Another thing to note - Piutau is better on the wing for us, with Payne at fullback. He just doesn't have the passing game that Payne possesses but his finishing is excellent. It also allows the midfield to actually create something instead of relying on the "give the ball to Charles" option.

Henry must be close to playing now. My memory might be playing tricks on me, but think I read he was just a few weeks away from starting, and that was a couple of weeks ago.

Agree on Reidy. He is one of the few bright lights we have at the moment. I would also like to see Matty Rea get a few starts as he looks a prospect.

Good - I think we should think about Henry starting at 6 with Reidy at 7. That would certainly help add a bit of aggression at the breakdown and contact area. Then we just need an 8 who can actually break a tackle...

Henderson should play in the second row on his return as well. He is just more effective there.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Good - I think we should think about Henry starting at 6 with Reidy at 7. That would certainly help add a bit of aggression at the breakdown and contact area. Then we just need an 8 who can actually break a tackle...

Henderson should play in the second row on his return as well. He is just more effective there.

Henderson is a better 6 than this seasons showing would suggest. He's not firing for some reason, but I would still have him playing 6 ahead of Diack and maybe until Henry returns. I think Tuohy and O'Connor would make a formidable second row until then. They would add that bite we are woefully lacking. Remember the days when Tuohy was scoring try's for fun? That's what we are missing, along with a destructive ball carrying 8 and a 7 that can win turnover ball.

Oh, and another positive; Lyttle had a pretty good game. Barged his way over for his try, even if there was something keystone cops about the Munster defence. He can catch a pass, and knows how to kick for touch. He panics a bit under the high ball, but experience should put that right.

Lyttle was all over the place in terms of positioning in defence, and particularly in terms of positioning in the backfield.

Conway et al. were immaculate in their positioning in the backfield, making decent kicks look like really poor kicks and defusing even some very good kicks from Jackson (who had his best game of a relatively indifferent season so far). But Munster didn't kick much better than us and found grass consistently because our back three weren't in good positions to start with

Conways reading of the game from 15 was immensely impressive I must say.

Notch wrote:Lyttle was all over the place in terms of positioning in defence, and particularly in terms of positioning in the backfield.

Conway et al. were immaculate in their positioning in the backfield, making decent kicks look like really poor kicks and defusing even some very good kicks from Jackson (who had his best game of a relatively indifferent season so far). But Munster didn't kick much better than us and found grass consistently because our back three weren't in good positions to start with

Conways reading of the game from 15 was immensely impressive I must say.

It's already been said on here that he needs to learn his defence. I wouldn't damn him for it. He's really only starting out at senior level. Gilroy is still learning, as is Diack, apparently... I would have started Lyttle over Bowe who hasn't really offered anything of note, bar one decent linebreak in the previous game.

The problem for Ulster is deeper than individual errors though. In fact the errors may be symptomatic of a deeper issue.

Obviously very pleased that Munster won, but it was close enough. PJ unfortunate with banger going off (probably Axel looking after Munster )!

The Ulster pack needs to be sorted with a Johann Muller type of player recruited who will provide leadership and set standards.

Sin é wrote:Obviously very pleased that Munster won, but it was close enough. PJ unfortunate with banger going off (probably Axel looking after Munster )!

The Ulster pack needs to be sorted with a Johann Muller type of player recruited who will provide leadership and set standards.

We're short on options. Our only real hope is that Coetzee can step up and lead the way, or Nucifora does the sensible thing and sends POM our way

Sin é wrote:Obviously very pleased that Munster won, but it was close enough. PJ unfortunate with banger going off (probably Axel looking after Munster )!

The Ulster pack needs to be sorted with a Johann Muller type of player recruited who will provide leadership and set standards.

You might have got the perfect man Sin, we need to bring back Muller as a coach, whatever it takes, just give him a farm or whatever he want's here but we need him to lead our forwards. Coetzee is a big loss but realistically we should have enough to cover without him and Henry but we just don't. Wilson should not be in our first team either. If Henry was back I'd be tempted to play hendo at 6, reidy at 7 and Henry at 8. Maybe we need to just look at some of the academy guys now, the current back row ain't doing it.
The one thing I am very dissapointed about is the restarts we have been terrible on them over the last few weeks and that needs to be sorted asap. Game management when you are 14-5 up nees to be better too, we should always be playing in their half and pinning them back but we were not.

Big question is what sort of backline are we going to have v Edinburgh next week? Cave looked injured, You imagine Jacko and possibly Marshall will be with Ireland too

Sin é wrote:Obviously very pleased that Munster won, but it was close enough. PJ unfortunate with banger going off (probably Axel looking after Munster )!

The Ulster pack needs to be sorted with a Johann Muller type of player recruited who will provide leadership and set standards.

It wasn't really as close as the scoreline suggests. If Keatley had not missed easy kicks Ulster might not have had a LBP. Neither do I think the bang put Paddy off - when he was lining up the kick he looked nervous, something that unfortunately happens a bit too often on really important kicks.

Absolutely spot on with the Muller type of player - except the pack needs a Muller type of player who is actually from Ulster and about three others. Leadership and coaching is needed but Ulster have too many ordinary forwards to compete at the highest level. Coetzee's interview at halftime was more mountain man than man mountain so leadership expectations there could be misplaced. Munster's second choice backrow of say DOC2, Copeland and JOD would all be starting for Ulster right now. When Pienaar is rushed into mistakes as he has been this season, the conclusion is that the forwards aren't giving him any decent ball.

I don't think there is much wrong with Ulsters playing panel, they are paying the price for not replacing Anscombe with an experienced and top quality coach.

Kiss seems intent on running the ball from everywhere and playing a high tempo offloading game, which is great when it comes off but the inability to vary the game plan and control possession and territory is really costing Ulster.

That's a number of games now where they have started well and let teams back in the game.

Well done Munster.

rodders wrote:I don't think there is much wrong with Ulsters playing panel, they are paying the price for not replacing Anscombe with an experienced and top quality coach.

Kiss seems intent on running the ball from everywhere and playing a high tempo offloading game, which is great when it comes off but the inability to vary the game plan and control possession and territory is really costing Ulster.

That's a number of games now where they have started well and let teams back in the game.

Well done Munster.

rodders anybody who has worked with Kiss seem to think he is a top quality coach, lets not forget hes been coaching for 15 years

The biggest problem is execution right now, Pienaar for me is out of form and not providing the service he is capable off and for all those lauding Piutau for his running he needs to learn to hold on to the ball at times and recycle the ball rather than offloading to the nearest white shirt which he looks to do every time

Execution is certainly a problem, but coaching is the biggest issue. Ulster are weak at the breakdown, weak at the maul, are pathetic at restarts, have no clear exist strategy and have no Plan B. They are not playing as a team. They are playing well below the sum of their parts, even if they don't have the strongest pack.
I think the errors are symptomatic of a side attempting to play to a plan they're not confident in. They look unsure of themselves and panicky.

I wouldn't be calling for the head of Kiss though. I do question the coaching talents of Clarke and Barakat. Barakat is leaving soon, and maybe Ulster should think about replacing him and Clarke with proven, top class, coaching staff.

I think Kiss has some blame from selections as the rotation seems to mean guys are trying to get up to speed at times, persisting with Wilson is another one and Ross on the bench on Friday was one I wondered about before hand, though he didn't have much of an impact when he did come on.

The pack is too lightweight and is something discussed to death on here, there no big ball carriers and the one left standing in the team is Piutau and is Nick Williamsesque when it comes to offloading.

At the breakdown though there seems to be a lack of intelligence there as well as bulk, without guys like Best around to lead its easy to bully Ulster and Munster did that. How many times in recent games have we seen Pienaar having to get stuck in at a ruck because the opposition are making a fight of it?

I think in the last few weeks Ruan has had to ruck more than he had all last season. It's becoming far too common as the forwards aren't getting to where they should be on time. The rotation part has been forced to a large degree with the injuries we've had and there isn't yet a settled core element to this Ulster side. That added to game plan or lack there of is frustrating to say the least. As Munckin said it's all symptomatic of a side attempting to play to a plan they're not confident in. Is there nobody that can step up and take control of the game management?