Wales v Japan 19/11/16

by wayne Tue 15 Nov 2016, 10:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Wales v Japan 19/11/16 - Page 4 Wales_10

Wales v Japan 19/11/16 - Page 4 Japan110

WALES v JAPAN
19 November 2016
KO: 14:30
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
Assistant referees: John Lacey (Ireland), Craig Maxwell-Keys (England)
Television match official: Eric Gauzins (France)
Assessor: Bryce Lawrence (New Zealand)

Wales played 9 Won 8 Lost 1

Wales: Liam Williams; Halfpenny J Davies, Roberts, Cuthbert; Anscombe, Lloyd Williams; Smith, Baldwin, Lee, Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Lydiate, Warburton (capt), King.

Replacements: Dacey, Gill, Andrews, Ball, Moriarty, G Davies, S Davies, Giles.

Japan: Matsushima, Yamada, Lafaele, Tatekawa, Fukuoka, Tamura, Tanaka; Nakatani, Horie, Hatakeyama, Kajikawa, Anise, Ilaua, Nunomaki, Mafi

Replacements: Hino, Yamamoto, Ito, Helu, Matsuhashi, Mimura, Uchida, Lotoahea

This is a potential banana skin game for us, IMO we cannot treat Japan with contempt and select a completely different team from last weekend, we should try to bed in a couple of alternatives to our first choices in crucial positions.

by Shifty Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:19 pm

whocares wrote:What's the score lads?

Wales won 33-30 with a drop goal in the last minute, we stole it. An undeserved win.

by Gwlad Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:20 pm

same problem now…we WON! Everything will stay the same when really everything needs to change

by uncle_nigel Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:20 pm

I've just checked the score, at least it wasn't a low-scoring affair.

by JDizzle Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:22 pm

Well, that was woeful.

I suppose the good things are Nicky Smith looked good, King and Hill tried hard (but looked limited), Baldwin played pretty well and well done Sam Davies - brilliant stuff under pressure.

Rest was just embarrassing. No-one individual performance was awful per se, but it is just humiliating to see us try to attack. No idea how to construct an overlap, no idea how to get over the gainline and then get quick ball. And watching our backline get slow ball with a full Japanese defensive line and them just have no idea what to do. Awful.

by wolfball Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:25 pm

Only got the last 10mins, but Japan's intelligence at the ruck in terms of committing numbers is nearly NZ like. Cracking few mins of rugby

by Shifty Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:25 pm

Nice to see the Japanese players taking a bow in front of the fans, they deserve the plaudits from this game.
Well done guys Hug

by rumpelstiltskindoh Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:27 pm

yes, japan did good.

Their 8 was the best player on the field - deservedly MotM

They contested and won defensive rucks when it was on, and stood back when it wasn't

Their backs were ambitious and looked sharp

by exile jack Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:32 pm

Refused to watch 2nd half,watched the other 2 games instead.Mrs EJ watched Wales and has asked me why Wales can't pass,kick and run like other teams.I said that was one of the mysteries of life but the Welsh coaching had a lot to do with it,as was picking players who were not remotely of international standard.

by mid_gen Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:35 pm

Japan are in danger of becoming a very good side.

They are so technically switched on, smart players. As someone said, NZ like. If they keep developing their player base they are going to be a serious force.

by Gwlad Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:38 pm

mid_gen wrote:Japan are in danger of becoming a very good side.

They are so technically switched on, smart players. As someone said, NZ like. If they keep developing their player base they are going to be a serious force.

Wales have become a dangerously bad side.

They are so switched off, witless players. As someone should say, the opposite of NZ. If they keep developing their player base they are going to be a serious farce.

by wolfball Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:40 pm

mid_gen wrote:Japan are in danger of becoming a very good side.

They are so technically switched on, smart players. As someone said, NZ like. If they keep developing their player base they are going to be a serious force.

I wonder how much is down to focus on technique over power due to players on average being smaller than most tier 1 team players.You have to get your technique down with brilliant coaching, when other teams can over rely on big boshers; Japan doesn't have that luxury.

by lostinwales Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:44 pm

wolfball wrote:
mid_gen wrote:Japan are in danger of becoming a very good side.

They are so technically switched on, smart players. As someone said, NZ like. If they keep developing their player base they are going to be a serious force.

I wonder how much is down to focus on technique over power due to players on average being smaller than most tier 1 team players.You have to get your technique down with brilliant coaching, when other teams can over rely on big boshers; Japan doesn't have that luxury.

From what I have read here and elsewhere in Japan they run through drills like no other team on the planet.

by mckay1402 Sat 19 Nov 2016, 4:48 pm

it bugged me when Gareth Davies looked like he was going to take a quick tap and stopped. it was just what the game needed but he'd obviously been told to slow it down

by majesticimperialman Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:12 pm

That was a very close win for Wales today.

Would that be classed as a success for Howely with all those changes?

by Gwlad Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:34 pm

Well success in the very narrowest way, like our attack.

The good thing is this likely won't be forgotten ( Yahoo

) and Howley is failing his extended interview for the post RWC 2019 job like a legend.

We are fast regressing while trying to play a new brand of rugby with the wrong personnel.

Howley now knows it won't wash in time to beat SA so will revert to Warrenball next week

Biggar, North, Doc, JD2, Half and Liam should start. Davies at 9

Gethin, Baldwin, Lee, AWJ, Charters, Moriarty, Lydiate Warburton i expect.

Bench: Sam, Scott W, Lloyd W, Smith, Owens, Francis, Tips, Ball.

by mid_gen Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:50 pm

wolfball wrote:
mid_gen wrote:Japan are in danger of becoming a very good side.

They are so technically switched on, smart players. As someone said, NZ like. If they keep developing their player base they are going to be a serious force.

I wonder how much is down to focus on technique over power due to players on average being smaller than most tier 1 team players.You have to get your technique down with brilliant coaching, when other teams can over rely on big boshers; Japan doesn't have that luxury.

Whatever it is, it works. NZ play youth rugby by weight not age. Japan just don't have the weight!

When I was playing in Hong Kong, I was always amazed by the skills of the ladies teams there. Put the men's teams to shame. Brilliant to watch.

by **George Carlin** Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:02 pm

I didn't see the game so I don't really know what to make of this.

Look at the recent results:

5 November 2016
Japan 20–54 Argentina (Japan had 13 new caps)

5 November 2016
Wales 8−32 Australia

12 November 2016
Georgia 22−28 Japan (Japan had 2 further new caps)

12 November 2016
Wales 24–20 Argentina

19 November 2016
Wales 33–30 Japan

Odd. Have Wales got better or worse?

by majesticimperialman Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:07 pm

If you was a Welsh player, would you be happy with ( THAT ) Game today? Forget the result. Would you be happy with That style of Play today?

by Gwlad Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:11 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:If you was a Welsh player, would you be happy with ( THAT ) Game today? Forget the result. Would you be happy with That style of Play today?

I think the question is stupid.

Clearly none of us are.

by Guest Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:41 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:That was a very close win for Wales today.

Would that be classed as a success for Howely with all those changes?

All those changes? Which ones?

by Guest Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:41 pm

Yay we won! Yahoo

by Cardiff Dave Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:14 pm

Gwlad wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:If you was a Welsh player, would you be happy with ( THAT ) Game today? Forget the result. Would you be happy with That style of Play today?

I think the question is stupid.

Clearly none of us are.

Could be a loaded question mun ie players not happy with coaching, perhaps?
Anyone know what happens at team Wales get togethers btw? Do they simply march up and down the square everytime in the same old way?

by Cardiff Dave Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:28 pm

wales606 wrote:Italy are 20 - 18 up against SA with 10 to go.

Wales v SA could be a drunk hobo fight

by Cardiff Dave Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:34 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:If you was a Welsh player, would you be happy with ( THAT ) Game today? Forget the result. Would you be happy with That style of Play today?

If they're not happy then they should stop the bus, have a chat, issue demands, etc.

by glamorganalun Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:39 pm

Starting half backs were very poor and G Davies was not much better, I don t know what to make of Cuthbrrt he is getting worse every game.

Roberts had a good first half but was invisible the second half ,is he fit?

I don t agree with Howley that Japan deserved to win, they were chasing the game and most of their their scores from Wales trying too hard to offload at the wrong time.

I hope Biggar and Davies are the 10 s next week and williams not starting at 9.

by Cardiff Dave Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:07 pm

BBC2 Wales ChumV 2mo;
Easterby's Mrs, Beard, an ex-Neath winger, an injured Os SH and Alfie. Musical guests, One Direction.

by Shifty Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:56 pm

One of the boys in work entered a raffle, and first prize was 2 tickets for Wales Vs Japan, he sat in the pub and said "I hope I don't win first prize". He did actually win first prize and sadly for him he had his young son sat next to him so he had to take him.
I can't wait to talk to him on Monday! laughing

My days of going to rugby games involving professional Welsh players, and walking out of the stadium with steam coming out of my ears are long gone.

by wayne Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:34 pm

Can I just add, did anybody recognise the bloke sitting behind Jamie Joseph in the room inhabited by the Japanese Coaches today. For the record it was the former Osprey legend Filo Tiatia, now what an upgrade on McBride he would be.
He left a coaching position with us to become a forwards coach within the club system in Japan about 4 or 5 years ago, he's now progressed to the National Team and is on an upward spiral IMO. At least he started at the right level and worked his way up, unlike ours who started at the top and the only way they are going is down

by Cardiff Dave Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:39 pm

Shifty wrote:One of the boys in work entered a raffle, and first prize was 2 tickets for Wales Vs Japan, he sat in the pub and said "I hope I don't win first prize". He did actually win first prize and sadly for him he had his young son sat next to him so he had to take him.
I can't wait to talk to him on Monday!

My days of going to rugby games involving professional Welsh players, and walking out of the stadium with steam coming out of my ears are long gone.

2nd prize, 4 tickets?

by Cardiff Dave Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:41 pm

wayne wrote:Can I just add, did anybody recognise the bloke sitting behind Jamie Joseph in the room inhabited by the Japanese Coaches today. For the record it was the former Osprey legend Filo Tiatia, now what an upgrade on McBride he would be.
He left a coaching position with us to become a forwards coach within the club system in Japan about 4 or 5 years ago, he's now progressed to the National Team and is on an upward spiral IMO. At least he started at the right level and worked his way up, unlike ours who started at the top and the only way they are going is down

Nope, never heard that name before.

by Guest Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:51 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
wayne wrote:Can I just add, did anybody recognise the bloke sitting behind Jamie Joseph in the room inhabited by the Japanese Coaches today. For the record it was the former Osprey legend Filo Tiatia, now what an upgrade on McBride he would be.
He left a coaching position with us to become a forwards coach within the club system in Japan about 4 or 5 years ago, he's now progressed to the National Team and is on an upward spiral IMO. At least he started at the right level and worked his way up, unlike ours who started at the top and the only way they are going is down

Nope, never heard that name before.

Sarcasm, Dave?

by Cardiff Dave Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:23 pm

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
wayne wrote:Can I just add, did anybody recognise the bloke sitting behind Jamie Joseph in the room inhabited by the Japanese Coaches today. For the record it was the former Osprey legend Filo Tiatia, now what an upgrade on McBride he would be.
He left a coaching position with us to become a forwards coach within the club system in Japan about 4 or 5 years ago, he's now progressed to the National Team and is on an upward spiral IMO. At least he started at the right level and worked his way up, unlike ours who started at the top and the only way they are going is down

Nope, never heard that name before.

Sarcasm, Dave?

Naahr, just fibbing.
I am Roger the fibber and like to fib when it suits just like the suits fib when it suits.

by Huwball Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:07 pm

I'm sorry if this has been said before, but howler et al are Gash...as is their selection policy... cuthburt - please? He has (majoratory and sorry to wind some people up) been hopeless for a while. No run out for Giles? Weren't we looking for skill or otherwise?

Our management has run its course - cut it please while there is still time

by Gwlad Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:15 pm

Not sure anyone has ever said majoratory before.

Everyone knows Cuthbert is gash. Except Howley.

by TightHEAD Sun 20 Nov 2016, 8:47 am

Thank you Japan, you restored my faith in the game.

1) They entertained the crowd.
2) They are anti warrenball.

I hope the young kids in the crowd are inspired to play the game their way and not the Welsh way.

The wrong team won.

by offload Sun 20 Nov 2016, 9:02 am

Let's not get carried away with this performance, some reality:
1. Wales has been going backwards since 2013. Nothing new to see yesterday and totally predictable result.
2. Don't pretend this has nothing to do with Gatland. Howley is just his clone as are the other stale coaches. None has had any positive effect on the players for years.
3. Wales barely has a test level player in each position and certainly not enough to make so many selection changes.
4. Its nonsense to talk about Wales playing a different style - there is no evidence to support it. They persist in route one rugby and can't make it work. I was able to predict EVERY single phase yesterday, EVERY time. Unbelievable.
5. The basic skill levels and rugby intellect in this team is the worst of any so called top tier nation.
6. It's astonishing that players like AWJ, Warburton and Roberts show no leadership and are unable to influence the game. The team can't execute a simple plan. I suspect the plan is inadequate even if they could.
7. Gatland made a huge impact in 2008 through 2012. Gone backwards since. WRU has done nothing about the decline and allowed a stagnant coaching team to fail repeatedly. A fresh coaching team would make a huge difference to a core group of players that still have enough talent.

Don't expect anything to change. The WRU doesn't have the courage to do anything and the coaches lack the integrity to leave. History has taught that what we learn about Welsh rugby is that Welsh rugby doesn't learn.

Japan by the way, should be congratulated. A skilful, committed team playing to the best of their ability. They deserved to win.

by uncle_nigel Sun 20 Nov 2016, 9:03 am

Huwball wrote:I'm sorry if this has been said before, but howler et al are Gash...as is their selection policy... cuthburt - please? He has (majoratory and sorry to wind some people up) been hopeless for a while. No run out for Giles? Weren't we looking for skill or otherwise?

Our management has run its course - cut it please while there is still time

I'm not sure why Cuthbert wasn't subbed early in the second half, or in the first half. You can bet your house that if it were Amos he would have been taken straight off. I think it might be a little too soon for Giles but that match would have been the ideal time for an introduction to pro rugby. Howley hasn't utilized the bench in two matches now; and Tomas Francis should have been on that bench yesterday too.

Anyway I know the team I would pick for next weekend, but I also have an inkling of the selection Howley will put out (and it's not good).

by Allty Sun 20 Nov 2016, 9:06 am

I agree with all of Offloads post

by uncle_nigel Sun 20 Nov 2016, 9:13 am

Allty wrote:I agree with all of Offloads post

I too agree with that.

by uncle_nigel Sun 20 Nov 2016, 9:59 am

I've also noticed that the Japan number 8 was MOTM, deservedly so. I wonder which island they found that beast on? Very good player, a back-row in the SH mold.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:19 am

uncle_nigel wrote:I've also noticed that the Japan number 8 was MOTM, deservedly so. I wonder which island they found that beast on? Very good player, a back-row in the SH mold.

That would be Tonga. Moved to Japan for University and chose to play for Japan over Tonga having been in the Tonga U20s.

by **George Carlin** Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:21 am

I am genuinely fascinated that people believe the team has regressed since 2008.

Since that time, Wales have won 3 x 6 Nations championships (2008, 2012, 2013), they got to the semis of the RWC in 2011 (losing to France by a single point), and got to the quarters of the RWC 2015 where you lost to a Saffer side which ultimately came third and you beat England at the pool stages.

Is this just familiarity breeding contempt? I won't say that you should all try being Scotland fans.

But you should try it. You'll be very funny, have coronary heart disease, be able to sell anything to anyone with that accent. But you won't win a bloody thing.

by offload Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:38 am

George Carlin wrote:I am genuinely fascinated that people believe the team has regressed since 2008.

Since that time, Wales have won 3 x 6 Nations championships (2008, 2012, 2013), they got to the semis of the RWC in 2011 (losing to France by a single point), and got to the quarters of the RWC 2015 where you lost to a Saffer side which ultimately came third and you beat England at the pool stages.

We've not regressed since 2008, but we have since 2013. The team improved quickly from a terrible 2007 WC to win a few championships (the impact of new coaches). Let's be clear though, in WC 2011 the only decent team we beat was Ireland. In WC 2015 we beat an underperforming England. Our record since 3013 is poor and there have been some abject performances. The coaches have shown no ability to move the Welsh team forward for three years.

by uncle_nigel Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:43 am

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:I've also noticed that the Japan number 8 was MOTM, deservedly so. I wonder which island they found that beast on? Very good player, a back-row in the SH mold.

That would be Tonga. Moved to Japan for University and chose to play for Japan over Tonga having been in the Tonga U20s.

I'm not sure how a person can do that but ah well, unless there are rule-changes these little islands will continue to get pillaged by all and sundry.

by **George Carlin** Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:45 am

offload wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I am genuinely fascinated that people believe the team has regressed since 2008.

Since that time, Wales have won 3 x 6 Nations championships (2008, 2012, 2013), they got to the semis of the RWC in 2011 (losing to France by a single point), and got to the quarters of the RWC 2015 where you lost to a Saffer side which ultimately came third and you beat England at the pool stages.

We've not regressed since 2008, but we have since 2013. The team improved quickly from a terrible 2007 WC to win a few championships (the impact of new coaches). Let's be clear though, in WC 2011 the only decent team we beat was Ireland. In WC 2015 we beat an underperforming England. Our record since 3013 is poor and there have been some abject performances. The coaches have shown no ability to move the Welsh team forward for three years.

Wales v Japan 19/11/16 - Page 4 Two-glasses

by uncle_nigel Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:47 am

offload wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I am genuinely fascinated that people believe the team has regressed since 2008.

Since that time, Wales have won 3 x 6 Nations championships (2008, 2012, 2013), they got to the semis of the RWC in 2011 (losing to France by a single point), and got to the quarters of the RWC 2015 where you lost to a Saffer side which ultimately came third and you beat England at the pool stages.

We've not regressed since 2008, but we have since 2013. The team improved quickly from a terrible 2007 WC to win a few championships (the impact of new coaches). Let's be clear though, in WC 2011 the only decent team we beat was Ireland. In WC 2015 we beat an underperforming England. Our record since 3013 is poor and there have been some abject performances. The coaches have shown no ability to move the Welsh team forward for three years.

All of that is correct (apart from it happening in the future '3013'), and the union have also showed zero ambition and seemingly made little attempt to improve the game at domestic level. In that time we've seen other unions like the RFU and SRU take steps to improve the game at that level it order to have in flow into the national team - and it's worked. Gatland does fairly well with this top-down structure.

by offload Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:52 am

George Carlin wrote:
offload wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I am genuinely fascinated that people believe the team has regressed since 2008.

Since that time, Wales have won 3 x 6 Nations championships (2008, 2012, 2013), they got to the semis of the RWC in 2011 (losing to France by a single point), and got to the quarters of the RWC 2015 where you lost to a Saffer side which ultimately came third and you beat England at the pool stages.

We've not regressed since 2008, but we have since 2013. The team improved quickly from a terrible 2007 WC to win a few championships (the impact of new coaches). Let's be clear though, in WC 2011 the only decent team we beat was Ireland. In WC 2015 we beat an underperforming England. Our record since 3013 is poor and there have been some abject performances. The coaches have shown no ability to move the Welsh team forward for three years.

George, the time has long gone to be drinking from a glass half full. Wales is full of apologists that churn out the same old excuses time and again. Improvement doesn't come about by sticking your head in the sand. If the WRU sets the bar any lower we'll be limbo dancing.

by exile jack Sun 20 Nov 2016, 4:57 pm

Before we get any more tripe from Gareth Thomas on ScrumV about Welsh rugby being about playing the Welsh way,and having nothing to learn from other countries,it's difficult to avoid the conclusion that Wales have become Dragons coached by Asses.Don't look like a team,don't play as a team,can't play as a team.When you add to that the fact that a number of Welsh players are not currently/will never be international standard and the coaching staff are reducing the team to a laughing stock the future is bleak.To listen to Howley and Warburton say time after time the team went well/had a good week in training is an insult to Welsh rugby supporters who don't believe selling daffodil hats is the primary aim of the WRU.

by offload Sun 20 Nov 2016, 5:10 pm

exile jack wrote:Before we get any more tripe from Gareth Thomas on ScrumV about Welsh rugby being about playing the Welsh way,and having nothing to learn from other countries,it's difficult to avoid the conclusion that Wales have become Dragons coached by Asses.Don't look like a team,don't play as a team,can't play as a team.When you add to that the fact that a number of Welsh players are not currently/will never be international standard and the coaching staff are reducing the team to a laughing stock the future is bleak.To listen to Howley and Warburton say time after time the team went well/had a good week in training is an insult to Welsh rugby supporters who don't believe selling daffodil hats is the primary aim of the WRU.

Don't hold your breath Jack - Alfie is just about to start talking the same old shoite, just give him a minute.

by **George Carlin** Mon 21 Nov 2016, 5:39 am

https://www.606v2.com/t64520-wales-v-south-africa-26-november

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