Ward vs Kovalev - Who've you got?

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I can’t let a fight as big as this weekend pass without a thread asking for folks thoughts. For me this is one of those odd fights that I am looking forward to enormously but suspect might well fail to ignite. I suspect intriguing rather than exciting may accurately describe it. Got to say since this has been announced I have been picking Ward. I rate both of them highly but just think Ward is a special talent, a lot more rounded and like Mayweather one with an exceptional ability to shut opponents down and neutralise them.
 
That being said Kovalev is no underdog or no hoper, this is a genuinely close fight, and one in which you can make an argument either way. Whilst people rightly wax lyrical about Kovalev’s power his boxing ability should not be underplayed, few since Jones have solved the numerous riddles Hopkins poses so effectively. Also he is a natural big hitting light heavy, something Ward has never faced, whilst his defence has always looked solid at super middle he is not completely unhittable. Froch had his moments where he was able to land, so one would assume Sergey will be able to do likewise. How Ward stands up to that is one of the big questions in this one.
 
Also whilst Ward is hardly an old man his career post Super six has had more stops and starts than me attempting to run a marathon. Being in the ring with Kovalev would not be a place I would want to be blowing off a dose of ring rust. Despite that, I still think Ward will be victorious, he is smart at tying up/holding on the inside and fast enough that he will score with plenty when the fight is at range. If the ref is pretty easy going when it comes to his holding inside, and thus far he has tended to get away with it, I think he will secure the win on points.
 
All of this almost certainly guarantees you can put your house on Kovalev, but irrespective of the outcome I cannot wait for this fight. A genuine talent moving up to take on the best the division above him has to offer, this is the sort of fight the sport needs more of.

Except ward saying he can't make 168 and saying there is no chance he could have stayed there

I have no issue but don't criticise ggg when he is trying to create a super champion in a division

Ward has to say whatever makes his match making look reasonable but the undeniable truth is he moved up and fought a very dangerous opponent.

I'll continue to criticise GGG until he grows a pair, moves up and fights somebody worth a damn, I couldn't care less about his phoney excuses for fighting Welterweights and crap.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ward has to say whatever makes his match making look reasonable but the undeniable truth is he moved up and fought a very dangerous opponent.

I'll continue to criticise GGG until he grows a pair, moves up and fights somebody worth a damn, I couldn't care less about his phoney excuses for fighting Welterweights and crap.

Entitled to your opinion

Even Floyd thought Ward lost. LMFAO!!!!

Dylan1979 wrote:Even Floyd thought Ward lost. LMFAO!!!!

Haha

Too right, doesn't want Andre in the discussions with him as TBE

'There's no other fight I'm willing to take'

https://youtu.be/BqMSDBq0L9E

Rematch definitely on not confirmed yet but looking good

Herman Jaeger wrote:'There's no other fight I'm willing to take'

https://youtu.be/BqMSDBq0L9E

Rematch definitely on not confirmed yet but looking good

We all know Andre 'No Concessions' Ward would prefer a fight with somebody like Cleverly or rematch Paul Smith.

Dylan1979 wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:'There's no other fight I'm willing to take'

https://youtu.be/BqMSDBq0L9E

Rematch definitely on not confirmed yet but looking good

We all know Andre 'No Concessions' Ward would prefer a fight with somebody like Cleverly or rematch Paul Smith.

Yawn

BoxingFan88 wrote:Except ward saying he can't make 168 and saying there is no chance he could have stayed there

I have no issue but don't criticise ggg when he is trying to create a super champion in a division

Golovkin's problem is that he's a middleweight - no more, no less. What did he scale for Brook? Something like 158/159?

If we take Canelo out of the picture (who's either a light middle or a super middle - BUT DEFINITELY NOT A MIDDLEWEIGHT) then Golovkin is facing the best man available (and has already walloped the guy who's sitting at number four - with number 3, BJS, spending most of his time talking about fighting on IFLTV rather than actually fighting).

168 looks tied up for the time being with the DeGale/Groves/Smith round robin (damn shame DeGale and Jack couldn't identify a true champ at that weight) and Ramirez on the outside looking in.

I'm sure the winner of Chavez vs Canelo will remain the target. I'm hoping Chavez can prevail, as he seems the best bet to actually fight Golovkin. As we saw recently in the detail of the GBP vs Haymon lawsuit, Canelo IS GBP. I'm convinced he never fights Golvokin - unless GGG shows definite signs of slipping (which could be years).

Like Golovkin, Ward stayed at 168 in order to clean house. Luckily, he had the Super Six vehicle in order to do so (or that may never have happened considering Ward's penchant for fighting in Oakwood). He's now at 175 as he couldn't make 168 any more. He's admitted as much (and hasn't made the weight for years). He deserves huge credit, though, for taking on the best man at the weight in Kovalev - even if he didn't win the fight.

Why is Ward stalling on the rematch? They both signed a two fight contract, both gave their word it would be two fights. The terms have already been agreed also for both fights, what is there to discuss?

Self proclaimed SOG trying to change the original agreement for the rematch, same old sh*t we always get from Mr Free Tickets.

What does the bible say about keeping your word?

SOG?? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!!

Duva and Roc Nation start talks for rematch of Ward-Kovalev June 17
http://www.ringtv.com/486702-duva-roc-nation-start-talks-rematch-ward-kovalev-june-17

by Mitch Abramson

Roc Nation Sports and Main Events have started discussions on a rematch between light heavyweight champion Andre Ward and Sergey Kovalev, RingTV.com has learned.

T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas has been reserved for June 17 on HBO PPV for their second fight, according to the Nevada State Athletic Commission’s calendar, though it’s possible the venue could change. While the two sides have started talks, a deal does not appear close. Regardless, HBO is preparing as if the bout will take place on June 17, according to an industry source. Main Events CEO Kathy Duva declined comment to RingTV.com on Monday and a spokesperson for Roc Nation Sports also didn’t have anything to say on the current state of the negotiations.

The sides are likely jockeying for control after the negotiations for the first fight were contentious, the source told RING. “They’re going to have to work together,” the source said. “Either they’re going to fight again or Main Events is going to sue Roc Nation, so it seems like the fight should happen.”

Duva exercised a rematch clause in the first fight’s contract immediately after Ward won a close decision against Kovalev by identical scores of 114-113 to wrest control of Kovalev’s WBA/IBF/WBO titles at T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas on Nov. 19. Ward must face Kovalev next and is not allowed to take an interim fight unless Main Events approves, and Duva seems unwilling to do so, wanting an immediate rematch.

This would put the cherry on a brilliant six months for the sport.

Kovalev would need a stoppage to win. Ward merely has to avoid being knocked down to get a decision based on the first fight.

It has been a fantastic few months. Hopefully after these series of fights, even bigger ones will be made.

Dylan1979 wrote:Why is Ward stalling on the rematch? They both signed a two fight contract, both gave their word it would be two fights. The terms have already been agreed also for both fights, what is there to discuss?

Self proclaimed SOG trying to change the original agreement for the rematch, same old sh*t we always get from Mr Free Tickets.

Because even though he fought the best at 168 and 175...He's a cherry picking...Good for nothing coward that got a severe schooling of Kovalev in the first fight..

Now run along...

Ward said this was a control issue on Twitter last night. The fight is in negotiations but Ward is calling the shots (which doesn't bode well).

Saw an interesting interview with Ward a month ago when he was over here on a media gig... Eubanks fight I think. Said the same kind of thing... it's the only fight he wants but kovalev needs to understand who's calling the shots etc.

Makes you wonder how watertight the rematch clause is. You'd kind of think given the shenanigans that goes on in fight promoting that if you have a rematch clause, the terms are pretty clear and the penalties even clearer.

For everyone who still thinks that GGG EVER avoided Ward, you probably listened to the propaganda that Ward himself put out there and not to the actual facts/truth. Fact is that GGG NEVER EVER ducked Ward, he actually agreed to fight Ward back in 2013 and Ward wanted none of it, until much later when people put pressure on Ward he decided to fool the fans/media with that hoax offer exactly 30 mins after GGG signed to fight Lemieux and made it clear he wants to focus on getting the WBC strap and fight the Cotto/Canelo winner next. Here is a podcast where Chris Mannix and Kevin Iole, both respected boxing writers who know alot of details talk about it, totally exposing Wards lies and cowpat: https://art19.com/shows/boxing-mannix/episodes/42464482-3663-4869-b578-79e7cb842249

Enjoy

Great find

As for the rematch with Kov, I hope Kov kills him in the ring and I'm not joking. SOG my ass. The guy signs with Jay Z, the notorious devil worshipper and y'all think he's a God fearing man. Wake the F**k up man!!

Pretty sh1tty of Ward to make it look like Golovkin was ducking him pleased people are starting to realise the facts

Can't blame Ward for signing with Roc Nation though I guess when they were willing to overpay their fighters so much

Herman Jaeger wrote:Pretty sh1tty of Ward to make it look like Golovkin was ducking him pleased people are starting to realise the facts

Can't blame Ward for signing with Roc Nation though I guess when they were willing to overpay their fighters so much

Man the GGG vs Ward fight is a great fight as well

The issue is that GGG is much much smaller than Ward, but I still think he could win it

Jeez you golovkin luvvies are hard work sometimes . I listened to the podcast to see what fascinating new stuff came out. The big revelation was the host thinks Ward talks sh*t sometimes.

Well there you have it. Not many of us would debate that point.

The facts on this, as opposed to the usual he said she said stuff in negotiations have been laid out on here numerous times.
1. Loeffler admits they got an offer, admits the timing was wrong for his fighter - not really the lemieux fight they were chasing the canelo honeypot for more dollars so they ruled out the whole of 2016.
2. Abel Sanchez says ggg will fight anyone up to 175 but then says a Ward fight would have to be 164... and then subsequently denies it saying it despite it being on video.

Those are on record.

Team golovkin were putting wards name out as a potential opponent for publicity. That's where this started.

Did ggg duck Ward? No. Would he personally fight him, I'm sure he would. His promoters saw bigger money for lower risk staying at middle. The accusations at the time were all about Ward ducking ggg, which is risible..

Hermy, I'm pleased that you're pleased people are realising the facts . Here's a few more from your thread on this last year...

https://www.606v2.com/t63470-sanchez-we-never-asked-ward-for-catchweight

It's a fight I'd love to see though.

The only offer I was aware of milky was the one sent to Sanchez by Ward half an hour after Golovkin had signed to fight Lemieux I think it was, in which Ward requested a few tune ups as part of the deal. That wouldn't have been convenient for Golovkin who wanted the fight next up(straight after Lemieux.)


Are you saying another, different offer was made, if so that may be significant?

I'm open minded on this just want to get to the truth, respect both fighters

I think there's been bluff and bluster from both camps.

Ironically, these are the two fighters (along with Loma and Rigo, perhaps) in the whole of boxing who you wouldn't accuse of ducking anybody. Bit odd that anyone would accuse either of them of ducking another fighter.

Herman Jaeger wrote:The only offer I was aware of milky was the one sent to Sanchez by Ward half an hour after Golovkin had signed to fight Lemieux I think it was, in which Ward requested a few tune ups as part of the deal. That wouldn't have been convenient for Golovkin who wanted the fight next up(straight after Lemieux.)


Are you saying another, different offer was made, if so that may be significant?

I'm open minded on this just want to get to the truth, respect both fighters

If you're not happy with the explanations on your thread from last year, that No-one disputed, and I just summarised for you... here's an article from a few months ago where the author makes the same points. No idea who he is... Ward fanboy presumably...

http://www.thefightcity.com/golovkin-vs-ward-gennady-golovkin-andre-ward-kovalev-boxing/

That's a cracking article Milky, cheers for that bud

I was going to sue him for plagiarism derby!

Haz is right, usual bluster from both camps. Neither fighter could ever be viewed as a ducker... it's all just manoeuvring from promoters.

If anyone is ducking it's GGG, a ducker doesn't fight Kovalev at a higher weight, strange how the guy reluctant to move up gets all the praise.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If anyone is ducking it's GGG, a ducker doesn't fight Kovalev at a higher weight, strange how the guy reluctant to move up gets all the praise.

Who is GGG ducking?

He wants to break Bernard 'Special' Hopkins record, needs 4 more wins to do it.

Once that's achieved, he has clearly stated that he will move up and stay up.
Guess you just want him to move up now so Hopkins record stays in tact right?

No point in going up and down in weight. Why not do the biz at 160, break the record and then go up.
Makes perfect sense to me.

You can't try and get other people to move weights for you whilst stating you'll fight anyone up to x,y and z and then say you won't move without getting some stick Dyl.

as others have pointed out, I don't think either fighter is a ducker but there's management games going on.

If you listen to GGG

He will move up for a big fight

What big fights are at 168?

Ah, so when his team were saying 154 for Floyd and 168 for Froch or Chavez (but not Ward of course, that would have to be 164) middleweight legacy wasnt that important... but now he's near bhops defence record, legacy is everything. Glad that's cleared up.

Yes BF there are no big fights at 168... now.

Golovkin's happy at middle, that's fine, build a legacy. His loudmouth trainer likes spreading the monster stories and talking up his prospects at higher weights. Hey that's what management teams do sometimes to build up interest in their fighter.. and some folk lap it up.

milkyboy wrote:Ah, so when his team were saying 154 for Floyd and 168 for Froch or Chavez (but not Ward of course, that would have to be 164) middleweight legacy wasnt that important... but now he's near bhops defence record, legacy is everything. Glad that's cleared up.

Yes BF there are no big fights at 168... now.

Golovkin's happy at middle, that's fine, build a legacy. His loudmouth trainer likes spreading the monster stories and talking up his prospects at higher weights. Hey that's what management teams do sometimes to build up interest in their fighter.. and some folk lap it up.

Ward was never going to make 168 again

He retried and had to come back as a Light Heavyweight

He is on record saying there is no way he could make 168 in 2016 (When the fight was meant to happen)

BoxingFan88 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Ah, so when his team were saying 154 for Floyd and 168 for Froch or Chavez (but not Ward of course, that would have to be 164) middleweight legacy wasnt that important... but now he's near bhops defence record, legacy is everything. Glad that's cleared up.

Yes BF there are no big fights at 168... now.

Golovkin's happy at middle, that's fine, build a legacy. His loudmouth trainer likes spreading the monster stories and talking up his prospects at higher weights. Hey that's what management teams do sometimes to build up interest in their fighter.. and some folk lap it up.

Ward was never going to make 168 again

He retried and had to come back as a Light Heavyweight

He is on record saying there is no way he could make 168 in 2016 (When the fight was meant to happen)

There is also a vid of Hunter saying exactly the same thing. I will find it and post it on here as I know 'some' of you love good hard evidence

Comical Hopkins gets his bogus middleweight title defence record broken by another bogus title defence record.

In reality, there's:

Monzon 14
Hagler 12
The rest

If Canelo keeps f**king around, I'd be happy to see GGG wipe out Saunders, that's if that Cat will get in with him, then move up and go after Ward once and for all.

Ward does NOT want that fight, no matter what the weight. If it happens, I'm backing GGG with a couple of grand.

hazharrison wrote:Comical Hopkins gets his bogus middleweight title defence record broken by another bogus title defence record.

In reality, there's:

Monzon 14
Hagler 12
The rest

'another bogus title defence record'

??

Dylan1979 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Comical Hopkins gets his bogus middleweight title defence record broken by another bogus title defence record.

In reality, there's:

Monzon 14
Hagler 12
The rest

'another bogus title defence record'

??

legitimate lineal defences v comes-free-in-a-crisp-packet belt defences

Dylan1979 wrote:If Canelo keeps f**king around, I'd be happy to see GGG wipe out Saunders, that's if that Cat will get in with him, then move up and go after Ward once and for all.

Ward does NOT want that fight, no matter what the weight. If it happens, I'm backing GGG with a couple of grand.

and we'll look forward to seeing the betting slip, because we like evidence

milkyboy wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:If Canelo keeps f**king around, I'd be happy to see GGG wipe out Saunders, that's if that Cat will get in with him, then move up and go after Ward once and for all.

Ward does NOT want that fight, no matter what the weight. If it happens, I'm backing GGG with a couple of grand.

and we'll look forward to seeing the betting slip, because we like evidence

No problem. Ward will never get in the ring with Golovkin though. He'd rather sit in court.

Dylan1979 wrote:

BoxingFan88 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Ah, so when his team were saying 154 for Floyd and 168 for Froch or Chavez (but not Ward of course, that would have to be 164) middleweight legacy wasnt that important... but now he's near bhops defence record, legacy is everything. Glad that's cleared up.

Yes BF there are no big fights at 168... now.

Golovkin's happy at middle, that's fine, build a legacy. His loudmouth trainer likes spreading the monster stories and talking up his prospects at higher weights. Hey that's what management teams do sometimes to build up interest in their fighter.. and some folk lap it up.

Ward was never going to make 168 again

He retried and had to come back as a Light Heavyweight

He is on record saying there is no way he could make 168 in 2016 (When the fight was meant to happen)

There is also a vid of Hunter saying exactly the same thing. I will find it and post it on here as I know 'some' of you love good hard evidence

you post that and I'll post the one where hunter says HBO told them there were no credible fights for ward at 168 and encouraged him to move up and fight kovalev

there's a difference between saying it's a struggle to make 168, and saying you couldn't or wouldn't have done so. When fighters move up they always say they were tight at the weight, will be stronger at the higher weight etc.

Now he's moved to 175 I've heard hunter say he wouldn't want ward to move back down, because it's harder to do so once you've moved up... again not the same thing a saying he couldn't have made it.

Ward may well have been posturing with no intention of making the golovkin fight when he made the offer...so show us some good hard evidence (we like that) that proves ward and/or hunter have said ward couldn;t have made 168 when this fight was mooted. Show us they're as full of sh*t as sanchez. I think Ward's a smug tw*t so I'd be delighted to see this, trust me.

Dylan1979 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:If Canelo keeps f**king around, I'd be happy to see GGG wipe out Saunders, that's if that Cat will get in with him, then move up and go after Ward once and for all.

Ward does NOT want that fight, no matter what the weight. If it happens, I'm backing GGG with a couple of grand.

and we'll look forward to seeing the betting slip, because we like evidence

No problem. Ward will never get in the ring with Golovkin though. He'd rather sit in court.

and golovkin's team would rather their guy fights good boy welterweights for a few million bucks

but you're probably right, ward's scared of golovkin, that's why he took the easy option of kovalev

milkyboy wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:If Canelo keeps f**king around, I'd be happy to see GGG wipe out Saunders, that's if that Cat will get in with him, then move up and go after Ward once and for all.

Ward does NOT want that fight, no matter what the weight. If it happens, I'm backing GGG with a couple of grand.

and we'll look forward to seeing the betting slip, because we like evidence

No problem. Ward will never get in the ring with Golovkin though. He'd rather sit in court.

and golovkin's team would rather their guy fights good boy welterweights for a few million bucks

but you're probably right, ward's scared of golovkin, that's why he took the easy option of kovalev

Kovalev is an easier fight than GGG in my opinion.

Welterweights? GGG tried to fight Martinez, Cotto, Canelo. What's he supposed to do?
Put a gun to their heads and make em get in the ring?

Fighting Brook in the UK is still better than fighting Smith & Brand.

Brook struggles to make 147 anyway. He is a natural 154lb.

Brook was like their third choice replacement after Alvarez surrendered and Eubank backpeddled. Matchroom offered up Brook as a lucrative alternative.

I think if it was a case of Golovkin and his team getting their preffered fights then his record would read Martinez, Cotto, Chavez, Froch, Alvarez etc and they would all be a lot wealthier for it.

Sanchez might talk his fighter up, but its the actions of other fighters and their respective teams that are more telling. He has suffered from bad timing by really arriving as a top name at time when a whole host of other big name fighters were in their twilights and not really keen to tangle with the rising star of boxing. It has been a major struggle for him to land the big fights.

I don't think any sane person would dispute that it's been a struggle to get his preferred middleweights in the ring, at least for sensible money. He wanted chavez and froch (after he'd retired) at 168 because of the money.

That's not what this debate is about. It's the recurring theme that people bring up every few months about ward running from golovkin. And much as I'd like to see the smug smile wiped off Ward's face by golovkin, the idea he ducked him is bollox. But some don't like the facts to get in the way of their monster story.

No one ducked anyone

It's bad timing

I'm telling you ggg didn't duck ward

A lot of insane people around then.

Ward is a waffler and a nightmare to do business with. But hes just fought one of the scariest men in boxing, and even though I thought he lost, he deserves kudos for that.

The Golovkin situation, along with the Mayweather / Pacquiao saga and the collapse of the heavyweight division has been one of the great boxing tradgedies over the last few decades. No shortage of people out there that are happy to lay the blame at Golovkins feet for it though.

BoxingFan88 wrote:No one ducked anyone

It's bad timing

I'm telling you ggg didn't duck ward

In slow motion it looks like a duck to me. Quack, quack quack.