6CW Chat v16

First topic message reminder :

No more talk of ED's winky....

Crimey wrote:He was definitely better than Triple H in that feud. Triple H did that annoying condescending thing every week. He did the same with Bryan. I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he was trying to be a good heel but he does the same thing when he's face. It's at least preferable to when he tries to be funny. That's the worst.

Punk ran with the same boring schtick. I'm not saying HHH was more over, but he handled himself better, the last promo, when HHH gets in Punk's face and says about not facing the COO, or The Game, just a man. That's where it should've ended, and then Punk ruins it.

The more i've watched back over some of the old school stuff, the more i've come to appreciate alot of HHH's work. Granted, he's buried a fair share of people, but he's also tried (and failed) to get people over.

Alot of what HHH said in the feud with Punk was correct, and it was no different to any of Punk's fourth wall breaking, but because it was HHH he doesn't get the credit.

I don't think Bryan would have had anywhere near the impact if he hadn't have been buried by Sheamus at Mania. It made him in WWE

I'm not saying he doesn't have charisma but he works best when going back and forth with a heel - Punk could deliver a promo on his own and it has real impact

Agree with the argument regarding Bryans impact but it was a perfect storm of events that ultimately WWE took advantage of.

Crimey wrote:Everybody is also being harsh on Daniel Bryan, he's genuinely really funny and also always managed to get a good connection with the fans. Considering his WWE career was only 5 years long, it's crazy the impact he managed to have. I'd argue he'll leave a bigger mark on the WWE than people like Dolph Ziggler, Kofi Kingston even people like Mark Henry who have been their decades haven't managed to be as memorable. All this whilst not being particularly backed by management is really impressive. 

Even somebody like CM Punk was basically treading water for his first 5 years in the WWE.

Agree with this. When you look at their careers, Punk spent 5 years 'trying' to get noticed, when actually, all he had to do was choke Todd Grisham out on RAW and all of a sudden he's a huge star. In seriousness though, you only have to look at the clamour for Bryan to come back and be on Team Cena at Summerslam to show how over he was. And he hadn't even debuted properly.

Bryan had 'it' in abundance. More so than Punk ever did for me. Punk was an good worker, and was brilliant on the mic, but he wasn't on Bryan's level, certainly not in the ring.

Triple H is extremely underrated in his career. He was a huge reason Bryan got over and his part in the WM30 thing was fantastic

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Triple H is extremely underrated in his career. He was a huge reason Bryan got over and his part in the WM30 thing was fantastic

I agree. More and more i watch his matches and think he's under-rated. Granted, he wasn't trailblazing, but he is exceptional at what he does.

His feud with Jericho back in the day when HHH won the Undisputed Title was memorable, as was his feud with Michaels, Taker, even his run with Goldberg was quite good.

On a similar note, Cena deserves a LOT more plaudits than he gets.

Owen Hart gets too much

Hero wrote:On a similar note, Cena deserves a LOT more plaudits than he gets.

Massively

Hero wrote:On a similar note, Cena deserves a LOT more plaudits than he gets.

Yep. But i think he will get more when he takes more of a step back from the business.

Trump wrote:Owen Hart gets too much

I watched 'Owen Hart - King of Harts' the other night, so I will disagree.

Beer wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Triple H is extremely underrated in his career. He was a huge reason Bryan got over and his part in the WM30 thing was fantastic

I agree. More and more i watch his matches and think he's under-rated. Granted, he wasn't trailblazing, but he is exceptional at what he does.

His feud with Jericho back in the day when HHH won the Undisputed Title was memorable, as was his feud with Michaels, Taker, even his run with Goldberg was quite good.

The HHH-HBK feud is possibly the most underrated ever. Their HIAC match at bad blood 2004 was insanely good

I watched 'Owen Hart - King of Harts' the other night, so I will disagree

He wasn't even the King of Harts

Electric Demon wrote:I don't think Bryan would have had anywhere near the impact if he hadn't have been buried by Sheamus at Mania. It made him in WWE

But why did people care? Because Bryan was super charismatic and likeable. If that was Dolph Ziggler or Kofi Kingston or whoever, no way would it have had the same impact.

Triple H is a B+ player, which made the feud with Bryan so ironic, Daniel Bryan was more over than Triple H has ever been. He's the equivalent of a decent supporting actor but never leading man material.

My problem with Triple H isn't just that he has buried people, which he has, even his attempts at getting people over usually end with him still on top. Like beating Randy Orton at WM 25, or Brock Lesnar at WM 29, he always got the win that mattered the most. So even when he lost at other parts, people know who really won. My real problem with him is that he's nowhere near as good as 1) he seems to think he is and 2) how WWE presents him. 

Triple H is actually really bad at promoing 90% of the time, spends far too long talking and he's painfully unfunny as well as condescending to his fellow wrestlers and the audience. You can even tell the difference in his style when he's working with somebody he genuinely likes, compared to his work with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan.  He can hit the mark sometimes, but you have to put up with the rest of his rubbish the rest of the time. I don't buy for a second that he out-performed CM Punk in 2011 or at any time on the mic. He tries very hard and I think that's because he just naturally doesn't have it. He doesn't have the charisma to pull off what the real stars of WWE can do. His real strength lies in his ring work where he generally is very good at getting the psychology of a match.

President Trump wrote:I watched 'Owen Hart - King of Harts' the other night, so I will disagree

He wasn't even the King of Harts

I only remember 2 things about him and 1 is falling out a harness the other is a guy mocking him with a plastic giant nose. That's how awful he is.

#NationOfDominationFTW

That segment with Charlotte at the end of Raw is foo king ace.

Hero wrote:On a similar note, Cena deserves a LOT more plaudits than he gets.

Cena's problem is that he's the opposite of Shawn Michaels.

Whilst Shawn Michaels could drag his opponents up to his level and get a good match with anyone, John Cena tends to end up being at the level of his opponent. This means when he has matches with top quality guys the matches tend to be really good, but he can't really get a good match out of lower calibre guys. That's what sets him apart from the great.

I also think he's better now that he's secure in his position as a star, Cena has now transcending wrestling, if he were to walk away now his career would likely be set as he's getting more TV deals, movie roles and he's firmly planted in American audience's minds. Back in 2008-2010 his time at the top was actually really harmful to the product.

Crimey wrote:

Hero wrote:On a similar note, Cena deserves a LOT more plaudits than he gets.

Cena's problem is that he's the opposite of Shawn Michaels.

Whilst Shawn Michaels could drag his opponents up to his level and get a good match with anyone, John Cena tends to end up being at the level of his opponent. This means when he has matches with top quality guys the matches tend to be really good, but he can't really get a good match out of lower calibre guys. That's what sets him apart from the great.

I also think he's better now that he's secure in his position as a star, Cena has now transcending wrestling, if he were to walk away now his career would likely be set as he's getting more TV deals, movie roles and he's firmly planted in American audience's minds. Back in 2008-2010 his time at the top was actually really harmful to the product.

I think it's unfair to compare him to HBK, if you're going down that route then the likes of Punk etc need to be compared and he certainly had a number of dud feuds with lower calibre guys.

Hero wrote:

Crimey wrote:

Hero wrote:On a similar note, Cena deserves a LOT more plaudits than he gets.

Cena's problem is that he's the opposite of Shawn Michaels.

Whilst Shawn Michaels could drag his opponents up to his level and get a good match with anyone, John Cena tends to end up being at the level of his opponent. This means when he has matches with top quality guys the matches tend to be really good, but he can't really get a good match out of lower calibre guys. That's what sets him apart from the great.

I also think he's better now that he's secure in his position as a star, Cena has now transcending wrestling, if he were to walk away now his career would likely be set as he's getting more TV deals, movie roles and he's firmly planted in American audience's minds. Back in 2008-2010 his time at the top was actually really harmful to the product.

I think it's unfair to compare him to HBK, if you're going down that route then the likes of Punk etc need to be compared and he certainly had a number of dud feuds with lower calibre guys.

I'm not saying that he has to be as good, I'm just saying that is what has separated from being talked about as really great. His matches and feuds have been really bad at times because he isn't able to elevate them. This sets him apart from truly great wrestlers. Shawn Michaels was just the best at doing this. AJ Styles is good right now.

I'd argue even the likes of Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Edge, The Undertaker have all been more capable at this than Cena in recent years. Whilst some of their feuds were bad because of opponents or poor booking, I don't think any of them fell to the level of John Cena has done.

President Trump wrote:I watched 'Owen Hart - King of Harts' the other night, so I will disagree

He wasn't even the King of Harts

Technically he was, he won King of the Ring.

Crimey wrote:Cena's problem is that he's the opposite of Shawn Michaels.

Whilst Shawn Michaels could drag his opponents up to his level and get a good match with anyone, John Cena tends to end up being at the level of his opponent. This means when he has matches with top quality guys the matches tend to be really good, but he can't really get a good match out of lower calibre guys. That's what sets him apart from the great.

I also think he's better now that he's secure in his position as a star, Cena has now transcending wrestling, if he were to walk away now his career would likely be set as he's getting more TV deals, movie roles and he's firmly planted in American audience's minds. Back in 2008-2010 his time at the top was actually really harmful to the product.

Can't disagree with any of that. When Cena retires he will get the plaudits for what he did for the business, but much like HHH he will be remembered for some of his lower moments. Going over Umaga at the Rumble, Nexus, Barrett etc.

But in HHH's defence, there are certain things he couldn't control. He tried to put Steiner over, failed. He tried to put Orton over originally, and that failed. The second feud, which lead to HHH, Vince and Shane taking on Legacy was actually superb.

Didn't he also put an ageing Hulk Hogan over?

HHH's problem will be that he married into the business and that's why he got where he got.

HHH also put over Benoit, Batista, Cena at consecutive WM's iirc

HHH in that Punk feud was a disgusting mess of a character, as he always has been when he's been trying to be a face.

Strong!

I also struggle to defend his Authority work. for at times he was good, and at times he was the only man in any position to change the tone or character and he had no interest.

Plus he yearns for popularity. He wanted to put Reigns over, but kept having little moments where he had to get himself over. He has a huge ego, and it is why I expect most of his NXT picks will go on to have big careers. He'll want the credit

Show is up, my bad on the lateness front chaps. Crappy day yesterday at work!

Mat wrote:Show is up, my bad on the lateness front chaps. Crappy day yesterday at work!

Incredible work as ever - we all have bad ones

Gloryhog...

And with that done, your PPV card is posted

Great show

What a terrific card that is! Mega excited!

Anyone around this evening gents.

You around for a battle Dolph?
I'll promo tomorrow evening!

Beer wrote:That segment with Charlotte at the end of Raw is foo king ace.

x10. That was immense

Best heel in the company.

I didn't even realise it was PPV time already Feel free to come join in at some point Crimey shall be fun this.

Fernando wrote:I didn't even realise it was PPV time already Feel free to come join in at some point Crimey shall be fun this.

This is my shout for match of the night.
There are some beauties to choose from... But based on build up, intensity, and what I know you guys will pull out of the promo bag, this is the one!

I'll be around pretty regularly I hope. Work is manic, but also I hate it so my ability to put tasks off will increase

Morning all

Promo up
Predictions up

Happy Christmas

Morning.

Lovely promo that. Melancholic

It's the calm before the storm, I enjoyed writing it and got the inspiration from your QotD answer the other day haha

I've quoted John Lennon. You've gone for The Pogues. I wonder how many more Xmas songs will be quoted before Seasons Beatings is out I bet O Callaghan will have a cracker up his sleeve

Like Cerberus' use of the NYPD too. That's an image right there

Kcabdeef?

We should all have a Xmas song in our promos, bring on the Christmas Spirit

Jack what are you on about haha

TheJoker wrote:Kcabdeef?

I like Smith

It's a very different character to any others we've had in the past. Not many characters (and none I can think of) have come from privelege. The way he's trying to be a face and be accepted too - makes him quite complex because that just isn't going to wash in 2016/17. People hate the rich (personally I'm glad to see him back though)

I might have to go back and add a christmas song in to mine...all I've done is tell a little girl her Dad's going to have a heart attack and that...

Spoiler:

Electric Demon wrote:

TheJoker wrote:Kcabdeef?

I like Smith

It's a very different character to any others we've had in the past. Not many characters (and none I can think of) have come from privelege. The way he's trying to be a face and be accepted too - makes him quite complex because that just isn't going to wash in 2016/17. People hate the rich (personally I'm glad to see him back though)

It's hard to start a new character after having two successful ones (Leone/Crowley) but Jack seems to have the touch, I'd love to see more character development done to Smith, its all there in the promo's, the writers/creative need to do a bit more to get him across to people, hopefully he gets a big feud with someone (O'Callaghan?) because I think he could be the one to watch in 2017

Marshall hope you don't the liberty of promoing as you but thought that was apt...

East 17 We have a winner

Only one promo to go until we smash last week's total

I'm waiting on Cassius doing Killing in the Name of.

Nice promo Crimey, but found it hard to sing along to.

Must have been a Leonard Cohen one

Electric Demon wrote:Must have been a Leonard Cohen one

too soon?

I thought he was dead anyway