Has King Kenny lost it?

First £35 Million for a 21 year old who can only manage 20 games a season, now if reports are to be believed, £19 million for a Sunderland reserve??

What is going on, is this man safe to be spending NESV money???

I would suggest that it might not even be King Kenny, the first thing NESV did was bring in Damien Comolli. Although I don't want to get caught up in just praising Kenny for everything good and everything bad for Comolli.

I am worried that we're getting too eager to buy every single person that seems to have a shred of potential and is English.

Well, whoever it is making the decisions, I think the two I highlighted are bad ones, almost as if they are buying for the sake of it.

Only good thing I can say is that at least they are both young, and theya re not paying that amount for 30 year olds.

All I would say is, ask Sunderland fans what they think of Henderson

United were linked to a £20 million move, and I thought that was ridiculous, I'm just hoping that it's paper talk and the move isn't really happening.

Although Carroll did cost a lot of money, at least it was for a position we did NEED a player for.

Central midfield is probably the least of our worries really, we need a left back, wingers, centre back, striker, keeper all before we start worrying about central midfield where have Gerrard, Lucas, Meireles, Spearing, Aqua (returning from loan) and we were coping fine at the end of last season even when we were missing Gerrard.

From what I have seen of Henderson, he seems to be one of those players that doesnt really have a position.

He delivers a decent cross, but isn'y quick enough to play wide, I think it might just be a case of buying young British players.

As for Gerrard, it will be interesting to see what happens, particularly as the 'team' looked alot more coherent when he wasnt playing

I know that we've (Man Utd) been scouting him for a fair while and SAF asked Bruce for first dibs on him if he did leave but I don't think the price was anywhere near those levels at the time.

That is the price you have to pay for young, British talent now. It is ridiculous but for some reason players from abroad of equal talent can be bought so much cheaper.

I don't think he is a bad player, but not for that much money.

I think we have a big problem this transfer window, because we felt the need to send a strong message in January that we won't get bullied in the transfer market by making two big money signings, clubs are gonna put their prices up high when we come looking into their players. Too high for the amount of money we have considering we're not in Europe. Obviously not as high as Manchester City are gonna be quoted, but still pretty high none the less.

I'd still rather concentrate on getting in some wingers and a left back before we look at Henderson, whether he's good or not.

i'd love to know how your deluded club seem to think Jose Enrique's worth only £8 million, we payed around £6 million for him 3 years ago, he's twice the player now, if you want him you and your manager need to cough up, or buy a turd WAYNE BRIDGE and leave our lad alone

Young_Towzer wrote:i'd love to know how your deluded club seem to think Jose Enrique's worth only £8 million, we payed around £6 million for him 3 years ago, he's twice the player now, if you want him you and your manager need to cough up, or buy a turd WAYNE BRIDGE and leave our lad alone

I think it's more to do with the fact he has just one year left on his contract, so you're either gonna have to sell him on the cheap this summer or risk losing him for nothing next summer. Everyday his contract runs down without signing a new one his value goes down.

I think it's more to do with the fact he has just one year left on his contract, so you're either gonna have to sell him on the cheap this summer or risk losing him for nothing next summer. Everyday his contract runs down without signing a new one his value goes down.
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He's worth at least £15 million

With a year left on his contract? No chance mate.

Kenny hasn't lost it at all, it isn't his fault that Chelsea and Man City's owners have a bottomless pit of money to spend which is inflating every players price. He has to offer alot more than a players value to try and compete with those clubs. The sooner the new UEFA rules come into force the better.

While its obvious Liverpool vastly over paid for Andy Carroll I believe they did the right thing, I think City United or Chelsea would bid for him and get him if they waited to the Summer, Chelsea over paid for Torres and Liverpool just passed it along the food chain

JDandfries wrote:All I would say is, ask Sunderland fans what they think of Henderson

Well the only opinion I've got from Sunderland fans is that Henderson is a very highly rated player that they really do not want to lose.

The price of all English and highly talented players is dramatically inflated, there's nothing Kenny can do about that. At least we are buying young players that have proven themselves in the premiership and have shown enough to suggest they can go on to bigger and better things

Oh dear, do we have to put up with this clown on this site aswell?

dublfcynwa wrote:Oh dear, do we have to put up with this clown on this site aswell?

What 'clown'?

Jd and fries. He's a major wum from 606.

This is turning out like the Carroll story, I dismiss it as just paper talk but then it turns out to be very true.

I think Henderson looks like he could be a good player but has done nothing to justify that kind of price tag, its not the lads fault though

Fingers crossed all these big deals work out. We've been linked with a £16 million deal with Phil Jones as well now.

This is supposed to be a done deal now, £20 million. That's a huge risk. Apparently N'Gog might be going the other way as part of the deal which means we would definitely need to get another striker as we'd only really be left with Carroll as a centre-forward.

Kenny hasn't lost it at all, it isn't his fault that Chelsea and Man City's owners have a bottomless pit of money to spend which is inflating every players price. He has to offer alot more than a players value to try and compete with those clubs. The sooner the new UEFA rules come into force the better.
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Liverpool have spent mega money as well over the last 3 years, not far off them 2 clubs if not as much.

Aquilani - spud cost £20m
Carroll - £35m
Johnson - £17.5
Henderson £20m
Pennant £6.7m
Ryan Babel £11.5m

Poor Liverpool eh, they spend nout, spend just as much more like but deliver NOTHING

To be fair, most of the those signings have been funded by players we have sold. The Carroll, Suarez transfer deals were balanced completely by Torres and Babel leaving.

Aquilani was funded with the Alonso deal.
And Johnson was funded by money Portsmouth owed us for Crouch and the Alonso deal.

At the risk of sounded like Benitez, we have actually had very little invested by owners, the team has been built around selling players to cover the cost of the new ones.

That's roughly 115mil and your going back as far as Pennant. Man City have spent 318mil since the 2008/2009 so I honestly don't know what your on about.

Am made up.

Another quality young English player.

I no longer see money as an issue as the market is over valued in first place.

In Kenny we TRUST

YNWA

Young_Towzer wrote:Kenny hasn't lost it at all, it isn't his fault that Chelsea and Man City's owners have a bottomless pit of money to spend which is inflating every players price. He has to offer alot more than a players value to try and compete with those clubs. The sooner the new UEFA rules come into force the better.
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Liverpool have spent mega money as well over the last 3 years, not far off them 2 clubs if not as much.

Aquilani - spud cost £20m
Carroll - £35m
Johnson - £17.5
Henderson £20m
Pennant £6.7m
Ryan Babel £11.5m

Poor Liverpool eh, they spend nout, spend just as much more like but deliver NOTHING

Since 2006 Man City have spent 455 million and recieved 75 million in transfer fees at an nett average spent of 76 million per year whereas Liverpool have spent 253 million and recieved 205 million at an nett average of 9.5 milion per year. How is a nett spending spree of 380 million over 5 years going to comply with UEFA's new rules.
Check out www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
makes interesting reading

Why is it only Liverpool fans who mention this nett spend stuff?

Why do you alway's wum on Liverpool board's?

Fellas, drop the wum accusations cheers.

As a Utd fan I'd also though mention the nett spend charts, as I'm sure fans of Arsenal would.

This WUM term is a bit of a fad if you ask me, and some people are just too sensative.

Most people are able to answer the question pleasantly, without vitriol and I was only questioning if spending these vast amounts of money on relatively inexperienced players was wise - therefore using the title 'Has kenny lost it?'

As for nett spend, while obviosuly fans don't want clubs to go bust, I think the main aim is t win, and as much as Arsenal fans would bleet about nett spend a few years ago, they aren't as much now, given the lack of success!

Although there’s a degree of risk due to their age, these are players that have been with professional clubs now for many years, he knows the English game whilst spending the same money on a known player from overseas can have other risks, settling in, language barrier, adapting to the English game etc. Henderson is a lad who’s represented England through the ranks, he’ll be at the club for a number of years and while it’s more of a risk now to get him, in 2 years would they have been able to when his price has doubled and it’s straight fight between Chelsea and City?

Yes but you support Celtic and somebody else terrible so why don't you just talk to their fan's on their board's instead of pestering Liverpool fan's writing article's like "Has King kenny lost it"

JDandfries wrote:Why is it only Liverpool fans who mention this nett spend stuff?

I was just making a point that while Liverpool have spent over 250 million in the past 6 years they have recouped 210 million of that so really only spent 40 million whereas Man City in effect have spent 380 million.
At least Liverpool are keepeing within UEFA's new rules the FA/Premier League's new ruling of having 8 homegrown players in the first team squad is why Dalglish bought Carroll and Henderson, i know he probably overpaid for both of them but Carroll and Suarez were funded by Torres and Babel transfers and Henderson will be funded by Aquilani transfer to Juventus/Milan.

This is a 'Premier League' Board on an open forum, I am sure I can post my thoughts on here, can I not?

I see your point with teh rules etc, but I don't think Dalglish spent nigh on £60m just to fulfill a home grown criteria.

While of course it is relevent, and in some cases important to run a tight ship, dressing a club record fee by offsetting it against the Torres money just seems like people are saying ' it doesnt matter cos we got Suarez and Carrol for £8m after we sold Torres'

because it does, and it is still £58m on two players and if they don't succeed will need to be replaced, no doubt at a huge loss. That is the risk IMO, of course

Must have some grape with Liverpool.

Uefa have brought these rules and they must be adhered to. Plus is also easier for domestic players to bed in other Prem team as they already have the experience of playing the Prem.

You say £58mill is a big risk from two players. But from what I have seen in Suarez so far, I rate him more then Torres and we have just sold him for £50mill. Plus with the untapped pontential of Carrol, and with also another young gun in Henderson arriving, the future is bright.

Out of interest who do you support JDandfries?

The reason other fans of other clubs don't use the net spend argument is because it doesn't apply to their club, and they're not often attacked over their spending, but it does for us.

All clubs have to take risks when they sign players, but it was a much less risky to sell Torres and Babel and make up for the price of buying Carroll and Suarez, I think that was good business.

To be honest I would rather have a Carroll/Suarez partnership than a Torres/Babel partnership, if we ignore the money spent and money gained I actually think the first partnership is the more attractive offer, especially as Torres seems to have lost a lot of his due to injuries and the like.

Although the prices are inflated, which you would expect from young, English players Henderson and Carroll are both pretty sound investments, they both have a decade left of playing at the highest level, both of strong potential and hopefully both will be England regulars in the future.

All clubs have to take risks when they sign players, but it was a much less risky to sell Torres and Babel and make up for the price of buying Carroll and Suarez, I think that was good business.

Thats it, with any player there's more than likely a risk to some degree.

Buy a South American and often they fail to adapt to the English game or if they prove themselves get snapped up by Real/Barca.
But someone from the Dutch League and people state that it's inferior and they won't be able to step up to the Premier League.
Liverpool did both of those with Suarez and he's proving to be quality so far.

Soldier.....

I am a Middlesbrough fan, but of course who I support is irrelevant.

However, I agree with you, but you have just proven my point, i.e - instead of using the nett spend bolony, why not say, like u have, that Suarez looks good etc etc etc.

No one cares about net spend, ask Arsenal fans

On a note of caution....

We signed Afonso Alves, who like Suarez was great in the Dutch League, he started off brilliantly, but faded for some reason..... there are of course exceptions, Van Nistelrooy, Van Persie etc

Alves was blistering in the Dutch league, more than a goal per game, now he plays in the Qatar league.

He started off great for us too, looked a real player, but sadly, like alot of South Americans, nightlife and extra curicular activities took over!!

JDandfries wrote: and extra curicular activities took over!!

What he took up pottery classes?

JDandfries wrote:Soldier.....

I am a Middlesbrough fan, but of course who I support is irrelevant.

However, I agree with you, but you have just proven my point, i.e - instead of using the nett spend bolony, why not say, like u have, that Suarez looks good etc etc etc.

No one cares about net spend, ask Arsenal fans

The whole point is when you get a club like Man City spending what they want on who they want it inflates every other players price thats why Kenny spent 55 million on Carroll and Henderson. 5 years ago you would have been able to buy them both for 20 million at the most.
In all honesty Man City have just spent 400 million to win the FA Cup. How much will it cost them to win the Premier League or Champions League 1 billion or more?
As for Arsenal fans not caring about net spend ive heard loads saying that Wenger doesn't spend enough on the squad.

JDandfries wrote:Soldier.....

I am a Middlesbrough fan, but of course who I support is irrelevant.

Are you still bitter about Liverpool signing Zenden a few years ago?

JDandfries wrote:On a note of caution....

We signed Afonso Alves, who like Suarez was great in the Dutch League, he started off brilliantly, but faded for some reason..... there are of course exceptions, Van Nistelrooy, Van Persie etc

Dont think its fair comparing Alves to Suarez. Two different types of players. Where Suarez has the talent and ability to play as a striker, attacking midfielder left, right and centre. Alves was soley a striker.

Alves has had no where near the impact Suarez has had in the Prem.

Suarez has a proven record in Europe (Champs and Europa) and internationally, Alves didnt.

And if you have seen Suarez play for 90mins each game he has played (not just MOTD higlights), you will realise how good of a player he actually is.

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:


To be honest I would rather have a Carroll/Suarez partnership than a Torres/Babel partnership

Id rather Kenny had been given the job at the start of last season then we might have seen the new Rush/Dalglish partnership in Torres/Suarez

Braveheart.....

IN YOUR OPINION you think Suarez can play all those positions.... i think that is what you meant, but I can't see him playing anywhere other than up top.

I am not comparing Alves to Suarez, although I could quite easily.....

Alves, like Suarez was signed for big money in a January Transfer window

Suarez, like Alves was prolific in Holland and was being watched by numerous clubs.

Alves, like Suarez is South American, and therefore more than likely had a language barrier to overcome....... there are lots of parralels but I wont go on.

As for impact, well - Suarez, has looked great, full of energy and a high workrate, but I think some people are fooled by this workrate, that said I think he is decent, and will score goals.

Suarez - (since January 2011)

13 Games, 4 goals and 5 assists.

Alves - (Feb 2008 (debut on the 9th as sub) - May 2008)

11 games 6 goals, 4 assists.

So I am not sure what you meant by 'nowhere near the impact' - two of those goals were live on Sky, on his full home debut in a 2-2 draw v Man U (another parralell with Suarez)

You obviously haven't watched him properly Fries as he has rarely played as a centre forward, he's mainly played on the left side, either Kuyt or Carroll has played straight through the middle.

JDandfries wrote:Braveheart.....

IN YOUR OPINION you think Suarez can play all those positions.... i think that is what you meant, but I can't see him playing anywhere other than up top.

Sorry not in my opinion, I've seen him play there and I actually watch every Liverpool game. Suarez, Maxi, Kuyt all swap positions.

JDandfries wrote:Alves, like Suarez is South American, and therefore more than likely had a language barrier to overcome....... there are lots of parralels but I wont go on.

Suarez made an inspired effort to learn Dutch and can now speak it fluently. Have no probs him overcoming the laguage barrier.

JDandfries wrote:As for impact, well - Suarez, has looked great, full of energy and a high workrate, but I think some people are fooled by this workrate, that said I think he is decent, and will score goals.

Fooled by workrate? Thats one of his many attritubes. What about his touch, skill on the ball, his constant movement, his ability to pick out a pass.

JDandfries wrote:Suarez - (since January 2011)

13 Games, 4 goals and 5 assists.

Alves - (Feb 2008 (debut on the 9th as sub) - May 2008)

11 games 6 goals, 4 assists.

So I am not sure what you meant by 'nowhere near the impact' - two of those goals were live on Sky, on his full home debut in a 2-2 draw v Man U (another parralell with Suarez)

JD his first two goals for Middlesbrough came at the Riverside Stadium on 6 April against Manchester United in a 2–2 draw. I would hardley call that and impact as he was signed in January. And he finished his first season in England with a hat-trick in an 8–1 home victory against Manchester City last game of the season. So there is 5 goals in two matches! Where as Suarez scored his goals against different opposition as well as getting 5 official assists. Like his free kick against Man U for instance which fell to Kuyt isnt counted.