Ospreys vs Edinburgh Rugby, 2nd December

by EWT Spoons Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:28 am

Ospreys v Edinburgh Rugby
Friday 2 December 2016
KO 19:35
LIBERTY STADIUM

Live on BBC 2 Wales

Referee: Dudley Phillips (IRFU)
Assistant referees: Sean Gallagher (IRFU), Sean Brickell (WRU)
TMO: Kevin Beggs (IRFU)

Ospreys: Dan Evans; Keelan Giles, Ashley Beck, Josh Matavesi, Dafydd Howells; Sam Davies, Brendon Leonard; Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Ma'afu Fia, Rory Thornton, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), James King, Justin Tipuric, Dan Baker.

Replacements: Scott Baldwin, Paul James, Dmitri Arhip, Lloyd Ashley, Sam Underhill, Tom Habberfield, Dan Biggar, Kieron Fonotia.

Edinburgh: Blair Kinghorn, Damien Hoyland, Chris Dean, Junior Rasolea, Will Helu, Duncan Weir, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne, Allan Dell, Stuart McInally, Murray McCallum, Ben Toolis, Grant Gilchrist (capt), Magnus Bradbury, Jamie Ritchie, Nasi Manu.

Replacements: Neil Cochrane, Kyle Whyte, Felipe Arregui, Lewis Carmichael, Viliame Mata, Nathan Fowles, Jason Tovey, Glenn Bryce.

by EWT Spoons Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:31 am

Which Edinburgh side will turn up this week. The one that lost to Dragons last weekend, or the one that beat Ulster the weekend before.

by funnyExiledScot Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:46 am

Well we're due a good performance if the usual pattern is going to continue. I don't think we'll see too many changes to the starting XV, although I do think Hodge will give Weir a start at some point - should be good for a laugh.

by **RDW** Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:47 am

Here's me thinking we were playing the Scarlets this weekend!

The O's have gone well this season and recently smashed Glasgow - I can't see this going well.

Which, knowing Edinburgh, will probably mean a BP win!

by funnyExiledScot Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:07 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Here's me thinking we were playing the Scarlets this weekend!

The O's have gone well this season and recently smashed Glasgow - I can't see this going well.

Which, knowing Edinburgh, will probably mean a BP win!

No way. Even if we have 90% possession and 90% territory, and score three tries in the first 5 minutes, we still wouldn't get a BP win. We don't do bonus points.

by EWT Spoons Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:07 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Here's me thinking we were playing the Scarlets this weekend!

The O's have gone well this season and recently smashed Glasgow - I can't see this going well.

Which, knowing Edinburgh, will probably mean a BP win!

I've taken the fixture from the pro12 site, which is now terrible, so we could actually be playing Scarlets

by tigertattie Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:15 am

wonder if folk still bet on Edinburgh games?

You'd be just as well rolling a dice!

by **George Carlin** Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:44 pm

I didn't watch the soapdodger game but by all accounts we got our arses handed to us. That's obviously what heroin and fried chocolate does to you.

Would love Edinburgh to go off piste and stick it to the west Wallies but I would be severely impressed if that manage to do that.

by **RDW** Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:47 pm

The thing is that it's not as if we've got returning Scotland players to help us.

Ford and Watson will be given a rest and probably Dell too, and I hope Gilchrist is rested because Mckenzie and Toolis are a better lock paring! I'd hoped that Dickinson would be back by now but all it said in the Scotsman this morning was that he'll be fit for the 6N - that's still 2 months away.

On the plus side Nel should be due to return in the next few weeks.

by wayne Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:52 pm

Our team (Ospreys) hopefully will be something like the following
Dan Evans, Tom O'Flaherty, Kieron Fonotia, Josh Matavesi, Keelan Giles, Sam Davies, Tom Habberfield, Nicky Smith, Scott Baldwin, Dmitri Arhip, Lloyd Ashley, Rory Thornton, James King, Sam Underhill, Dan Baker with Sam Parry, Paul James, Ma'afu Fia, AWJ, Justin Tipuric, Brendon Leonard, Dan Biggar and Ashley Beck on the bench. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the hooker swapped and Dafydd Howells and Adam Beard could be in there somewhere.
Giles, Davies, Smith, Baldwin and King didn't have a hard AI period, so could do with a game. It would be really nice if the other players back from TW don't have to step onto the field on Friday. It could be really exciting to have 2 genuine speedsters with a rugby brain on the field outside of Matavesi and Fonotia. If that is the team, you have to feel for Olly Cracknell who was a deserved MOTM last week, but then again he will have plenty of game time in the next few months.
Finally the Referee for this game is Deadly Dudley Phillips, at least he is not biased just useless, so neither of us should have the ready made biased ref excuse.

by funnyExiledScot Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:The thing is that it's not as if we've got returning Scotland players to help us.

Ford and Watson will be given a rest and probably Dell too, and I hope Gilchrist is rested because Mckenzie and Toolis are a better lock paring! I'd hoped that Dickinson would be back by now but all it said in the Scotsman this morning was that he'll be fit for the 6N - that's still 2 months away.

On the plus side Nel should be due to return in the next few weeks.

We should have CDP as well I'd hope. Will Hardie be available? I'm still waiting to see the dream team of CDP, Manu and Hardie starting a game together.

Agreed on Gilchrist. He needs a rest.....

by wayne Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:11 pm

Ospreys team is as follows
Dan Evans, Keelan Giles, Ashley Beck, Josh Matavesi, Dafydd Howells, Sam Davies, Brendon Leonard, Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Ma'afu Fia, Rory Thornton, AWJ, James King, Justin Tipuric, Dan Baker with Scott Baldwin, Paul James, Dmitri Arhip, Lloyd Ashley, Sam Underhill, Tom Habberfield, Dan Biggar and Kieron Fonotia on the bench.

Surprised Kieron is not starting, apart from that a very strong team and apart from Ashley and Underhill there could be a case that the replacements are stronger in parts of their play than the starter.

by **George Carlin** Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:48 pm

15. Blair Kinghorn

14. Damien Hoyland
13. Chris Dean
12. Junior Rasolea
11. Will Helu

10. Duncan Weir
9. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

1. Allan Dell
2. Stuart McInally
3. Murray McCallum
4. Ben Toolis
5. Grant Gilchrist CAPTAIN
6. Magnus Bradbury
7. Jamie Ritchie
8. Nasi Manu

Replacements

16. Neil Cochrane
17. Kyle Whyte
18. Felipe Arregui
19. Lewis Carmichael
20. Viliame Mata
21. Nathan Fowles
22. Jason Tovey
23. Glenn Bryce

Not too bad from the limp wrist squadron.
Still no Nel or Dickinson...

by **RDW** Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:51 pm

Surprised to see Dell starting after a heavy AI series.

He's run the changes in the backs too - bit random that Will Helu has been brought in and it puts Rory Scholes even further down the pecking order!

Also still no CDP and he's not listed as injured - should we be worried??

Edinburgh Rugby Acting Head Coach Duncan Hodge has named seven changes to his starting side for tomorrow’s Guinness PRO12 round ten clash against Ospreys at the Liberty Stadium (kick-off 7.35pm) – live on BBC Wales.

Duncan Weir is named at stand-off

Of the changes made, four are across the back division with the alterations in the pack all made in the front-five.

Scrum-half Sam Hidalgo-Clyne makes his second PRO12 start of the season and is joined at half-back by Duncan Weir, who returns to the starting line-up for the first time since fracturing his jaw against Munster in round four of the competition.

Junior Rasolea replaces Phil Burleigh at inside-centre, while Will Helu is set to make his first appearance of the season on the wing after recovering from a long-term hamstring injury.

In the pack prop Allan Dell – who debuted for Scotland in the recent autumn Test series – and lock Grant Gilchrist return from international duty to start, while Stuart McInally is promoted from the bench to take the number two jersey.

Edinburgh Rugby Acting Head Coach Duncan Hodge, said: “We were disappointed with the loss to Dragons but we’re on the road to Wales again and are looking to bounce back with a big performance against a good Ospreys side.

“We’ve moved on from last week’s result, taken lessons from the match and worked hard this week in training to right our wrongs, with the players showing a real focus and positive attitude to make amends to their game, both personally and as a collective.

“Several changes have been made in key positions but it’s credit to the depth of our squad that we’re able to rotate and field a team with such experience.

“Ospreys are a team who will be high on confidence due to their current form but there is a lot of belief in our side and we’re looking forward to challenging them on their home patch.”

Blair Kinghorn and Damien Hoyland retain their starting spots to join Helu in the back-three, while try-scorer against Dragons, Chris Dean, partners the incoming Rasolea in midfield.

Murray McCallum remains in the tighthead prop berth to pack down alongside McInally and Dell in the front-row, as Ben Toolis completes the lock duo with captain Gilchrist.

The back-row is unchanged with Magnus Bradbury and Jamie Ritchie named on the flanks, and Nasi Manu at number eight.

Edinburgh Rugby team to play Ospreys at the Liberty Stadium in the Guinness PRO12 tomorrow (Friday 2 December, kick-off 7.35pm) – live on BBC Wales

15. Blair Kinghorn

14. Damien Hoyland
13. Chris Dean
12. Junior Rasolea
11. Will Helu

10. Duncan Weir
9. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

1. Allan Dell
2. Stuart McInally
3. Murray McCallum
4. Ben Toolis
5. Grant Gilchrist CAPTAIN
6. Magnus Bradbury
7. Jamie Ritchie
8. Nasi Manu

Replacements

16. Neil Cochrane
17. Kyle Whyte
18. Felipe Arregui
19. Lewis Carmichael
20. Viliame Mata
21. Nathan Fowles
22. Jason Tovey
23. Glenn Bryce

Players unavailable due to injury: Simon Berghan (foot), Anton Bresler (groin), Tom Brown (groin), Kevin Bryce (shoulder), Jack Cosgrove (knee), John Hardie (ankle), Fraser McKenzie (shoulder), WP Nel (neck), Rory Sutherland (groin)

by **BigGee** Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:57 pm

Tough on Dell, but I guess it was a lack of alternatives and he did not play the full 80 mins in any of the games.

CDP not playing probably answers the question as to why he did not debut for Scotland. Surely if he was fit he would at least be on the bench. I would be a bit worried about it actually, having started to play again after the op, he does seem to be taking an awfully long time to get fully match fit. Is something still not right?

Ospreys have named a strong side, it is certainly going to be a tough one.

by **RDW** Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:24 am

So does anyone see a result other than an Ospreys BP win?

Remember this is Edinburgh - our usual routine is to lose to a low ranked team then beat a high one!

Saying that, I think the O's will get a BP and we won't get any points.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:21 am

Weir and Rasolea in the 10/12 axis suggests to me that we will struggle to control this game. Weir will feed their counter-attack with aimless kicks and Rasolea will go off-script with his make or break style of play.

Still, Dean, Hoyland and Kinghorn are all getting a good run of games here, which is good to see. Also pleasing that Bradbury and Ritchie are getting more time working together on the flanks. That's a combination that has the potential to go a long way.

Big game for SH-C. He's got to step up soon otherwise Kennedy will have the 9 jersey nailed down.

Dell has gone from back-up option to Mr Dependable for both Scotland and Edinburgh. He still looks a bit lightweight for a loosehead prop (as does Al Dickinson to be fair), but he's clearly got a very solid scrummaging technique, and he shows up well in the loose.

I think we'll lose this by 10 points, foregoing a LBP obviously. We'll probably score three tries as well.....

by **RDW** Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:36 am

I really don't see why he continually picks Glen Bryce on the bench - he technically covers the back 3 and centre but not overly well!

by funnyExiledScot Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:41 am

Agreed - Bryce is pretty terrible and offers very little. He's quite quick and has a decent sidestep, but pretty terrible in defence (his positioning is poor) and his technique under the high ball non-existent.

by wayne Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:47 am

This is very strange for me and more than likely will come and bite me in the harris, we have won every meaningful game at the Liberty this season (Guinness and RCC2) with a try bonus point and I expect this to continue tonight, that is if Edinburgh and ourselves play as we have in the recent past with the calibre of players we've brought in, and the strength of bench.
This month is going to determine IMO how our season is going to pan out, win the 4 games and we are preparing for the Q/F of RCC2 and being the leading Welsh Region going into the New Year, lose a couple and it will be back to square one.
Going to be a cold one tonight but not as cold as last weeks game, hopefully I'll have plenty of clapping and cheering to keep me warm, and probably I'll need my Equity card again as I've been on the box every home televised match this season, some more than once.

by reallybored Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:26 pm

Why do people see Bradbury as a 6, hasn't he played 8 throughout age-grade rugby?

His greatest strength is his ball-carrying, so surely 8 is the logical place for him to play.

No problem with him acclimatising to Pro / International rugby at 6 but surely his future is at 8 with Ritchie at 6.

Quite excited to see this Edinburgh side in action.

by tigertattie Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:34 pm

Bradbury has (I think) mostly been playing for Edinburgh at 6.

His carrying is excellent and there's no issue with him doing this from blindeside! The only advantage of him carrying from 8 is that he'd be able to pick and go from the base of the scrum!

I really think that 6 and 8 will be horses for courses as to if its Bradbury or CDP that plays in either position! (going forward)

by **RDW** Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:36 pm

Bradbury isn't a one trick pony - he carries well and is physical in the tackle and has very good rucking technique.

I'm quite happy with him at 6 and if he concentrates on making that position his own he probably has a better chance for Scotland - we still don't have a long-term solution to the blindside position.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:41 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bradbury isn't a one trick pony - he carries well and is physical in the tackle and has very good rucking technique.

I'm quite happy with him at 6 and if he concentrates on making that position his own he probably has a better chance for Scotland - we still don't have a long-term solution to the blindside position.

His instructions from Cotter were to improve his intensity and physicality in the rucks, so an extended run at 6 will help with that.

If you could merge the good aspects of Bob Harley and Magnus Bradbury, you'd have one hell of a player.

by tigertattie Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:07 pm

Keep going the way he is and I can see him being the next Jason White.

by tigertattie Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:03 pm

Edinburgh's defence has gone on its Christmas holiday early

by Guest Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:17 pm

What do we all think about the contentious Edinburgh try??? Tricky one!

by Cardiff Dave Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:52 pm

Griff wrote:What do we all think about the contentious Edinburgh try??? Tricky one!

Looked like Jock player took out Jack player in front of ball therefore obstruction, no try and pen to Jacks.

by Guest Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:56 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:What do we all think about the contentious Edinburgh try??? Tricky one!

Looked like Jock player took out Jack player in front of ball therefore obstruction, no try and pen to Jacks.

Hell yeah!

by tigertattie Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:58 pm

What does it matter? Edinburgh are getting pumped anyway? Murder to watch

by Guest Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:11 pm

tigertattie wrote:What does it matter? Edinburgh are getting pumped anyway? Murder to watch

Just thought it was was an interesting talking point. If it was the same challenge/decision in the 6 nations we'd have a 10 page thread about it!

by funnyExiledScot Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:33 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think we'll lose this by 10 points, foregoing a LBP obviously. We'll probably score three tries as well.....

So predictable.....

by Guest Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:11 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I think we'll lose this by 10 points, foregoing a LBP obviously. We'll probably score three tries as well.....

So predictable.....

Should have been only 2!!!

by uncle_nigel Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:58 am

Griff wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I think we'll lose this by 10 points, foregoing a LBP obviously. We'll probably score three tries as well.....

So predictable.....

Should have been only 2!!!

Or 1?

by wayne Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:47 pm

People on this board have been asking for competent Referees for a number of years, and if you want the perfect example for incompetence in a match this was the one. A ball was kicked into the air and it appeared that there were 2 players from opposite teams were converging on said ball, and Player A from the team that kicked the ball collides with Player B from the opposite team. The only problem being that Player A has gone PAST where the ball is going to land BEFORE the ball has landed, and has collided with Player B, who as yet to ARRIVE where the ball is about to LAND. A clearer penalty is hard to imagine, but what does Deadly Dudley give, he says that the 2 players were contesting the same ball and allows another player to take the ball and goes over for a try. As Steve Tandy said in his PC, A MORE LUDICROUS DECISION is hard to envisage. Let me say he could be in a bit of hot water for that comment.

Furthermore, there were 2 separate tip tackle decisions in this match, that DD, adjudicated on in exactly the same manner, a penalty to each team, when the severity of each was at opposite ends of the tip tackle spectrum, when the offender was the Edinburgh player he lifted the legs of the Osprey player and LET HIM DROP to the ground in the upper body area, and the minimum he should have had was a YELLOW. The OTHER instance was Ashley Beck lifting an Edinburgh player and putting him down ON HIS BACK. It could have been a penalty as it was given, but to me that was excessive.

I said BEFORE this game, that neither team could use the excuse of a biased Referee to point the finger why they have lost, well Edinburgh certainly cannot.

To get to the match, HOW we didn't win this match by 40 to 50 points is beyond me, we absolutely butchered 3 or 4 tries, especially the push over when the ball was at Dan Bakers feet, the amount of white line fever was ridiculous, thought certain players had outstanding games, the only disappointing player for me was Brendon Leonard, took an age on times to get the ball out, Tom Habberfield was much slicker, I only hope our 2 youngsters Mathew Aubrey and Williams step up to the plate, and we can get rid of Leonard and free up a NWQ spot at the end of this season.

by uncle_nigel Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:26 am

Tandy shouldn't be in hot water for that comment; it was absolutely spot on! Too many clowns dressed in ref's clothing are officiating this league, there was one last night at the RDS too. I'm enjoying Pro12 rugby this year for the most part but I can see how refereeing standards has turned a lot of fans away.

by wayne Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:30 pm

uncle_nigel wrote:Tandy shouldn't be in hot water for that comment; it was absolutely spot on! Too many clowns dressed in ref's clothing are officiating this league, there was one last night at the RDS too. I'm enjoying Pro12 rugby this year for the most part but I can see how refereeing standards has turned a lot of fans away.

Mikey, don't they have bringing the game into disrepute laws? as they have in Poofball. I've never seen Coaches give that strong an opinion before. The minimum DD should receive is a few weeks off work, or let him Ref unimportant games like Leinster v Munster over the Christmas period:D

by funnyExiledScot Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:57 pm

uncle_nigel wrote:Tandy shouldn't be in hot water for that comment; it was absolutely spot on! Too many clowns dressed in ref's clothing are officiating this league, there was one last night at the RDS too. I'm enjoying Pro12 rugby this year for the most part but I can see how refereeing standards has turned a lot of fans away.

I should add, as an Edinburgh fan, that I thought the Kinghorn try should have been called back for a penalty to the Ospreys. It was clumsy from Hoyland, and I don't think the fact that he isn't looking at the player when he runs into him is much of an excuse. Not a yellow, or anything like that, but a penalty (and not a try).

The refs in the Pro12 are notoriously bad. There's probably about 2 or 3 half-decent ones, but on the whole they are a duff bunch. That Clownshoes Clancy is allowed to ref internationals is beyond my understanding, and quite what The Gibbon brings to the party I'll never know.

by **RDW** Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:12 pm

I'd agree that the try was a bit of a farce.

It was also incredibly disappointing to see how easy we let the Ospreys score - especially the first 2 tries.

The first try once again Rasolea was caught completely out of position (not his first time this season) and the 2nd try our scrum absolutely disintegrated to an extent that we rarely see in professional rugby - their number 8 just had to pick the ball up and fall over the line.

Very disappointing - bring back Solomons!

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