Tiger Woods day

First topic message reminder :

So today's the day, the Tiger returns.

So how well or how bad will he be ?

With such a small field, he couldn't have comeback into an easier tournament.

Davie wrote:

Maybe I'm being over fussy but I don't like the way the TV coverage puts him at the top of any ties .. neither alphabetical or holes played seems to be the tie breaker - but if your name is Woods you go top of any tied positions, just to keep him up the leaderboard

Agree, it's nauseating. I have nothing against TW and would like to see him back on top, but all this puts me off.

I know people do not like TW, but what reasons do people have for the dislike? You cant hold it against him that the media fawn or they put him above others that are tied for the same score, surely?

Very simple Ben.
I don't like his mad axeman swing and lack of course management.
I don't like his personality (or complete lack of)
I don't like that he appears to despise playing golf despite being a billionaire, he never seems to be enjoying himself, despite constantly claiming to be "having fun out there"
I don't like that he has no sense of humour,  is completely wooden, contrived, fake and can't say anything which isn't scripted or an interview by numbers (although he's not alone on that count)
I don't like his swearing and spitting and I really hate his preposterous superstition of wearing red on a Sunday as if people ought to be intimidated by a has been like him ranked 898.
I also don't like his Americanised celebrations such as some of the pointing gestures he does which are just embarrassing.

He's not unique though, there's a lot of golfers I dislike for various reasons.

I've never cared about his off course antics, he can do what he wants.

In 9C's defence and to his credit, I'm pretty sure he's not a Christian, which is probably the best thing I can say about him.

beninho wrote:I know people do not like TW, but what reasons do people have for the dislike? You cant hold it against him that the media fawn or they put him above others that are tied for the same score, surely?

I think I said earlier on this thread, or perhaps another one, that there are two aspects to the dislike/hatred/call it what you will

One aspect is the side of him that s_r keeps banging on about; the other, which I said at the time, isn't his direct fault, but rather the media's infatuation with him. It all adds up to my dislike of him, but at least that second aspect isn't of HIS doing - not directly anyway

The media fawning and sycophancy doesn't do him any favours, at least imo. "Tiger tracker", "Tiger return count down", putting him on top of leaderboards etc etc turns me off. Again, I've nothing against Tiger, many players are much more dull, wooden, fake etc., but it's all the hoo hah that makes me somewhat 'anti-establishment' so to speak.

I think people, Mac especially are looking for racist reason as to dislike 9C, and despite him claiming it was a joke, I am pretty sure he believes that middle aged golfers are racist and that's why they don't like 9C, though strangely, that same dislike was not evident with Vijay.

Plenty of reasons to dislike Vijay, plenty of reasons to like Johnny Vegas. None has to do with race.

pedro wrote:Plenty of reasons to dislike Vijay, plenty of reasons to like Johnny Vegas. None has to do with race.

Benidorm certainly trailed off when Vegas left.

Davie wrote:

beninho wrote:I know people do not like TW, but what reasons do people have for the dislike? You cant hold it against him that the media fawn or they put him above others that are tied for the same score, surely?

I think I said earlier on this thread, or perhaps another one, that there are two aspects to the dislike/hatred/call it what you will

One aspect is the side of him that s_r keeps banging on about

Do you mean the claim Super keeps making that we know enough about Tiger and the other PGAT players to say that Tiger has a more dislikable personality than the other players?

Please explain what there is to like about him Mac or what you think is so endearing about him. He's just one of many, bit like lots of footballers who seem, at least as far as we can tell to be ghastly people.

Not surprising if Woods ran out of gas on Thursday, mentally if not physically.
Hope they recognize Justin Rose day and show as much of his return to action as they do Woods's.

Agree Kwin ... I envision Tiger pulling out before this event is over.

NO chance in giving Justin (or any other golfer for that matter) any air time. Tiger's their (network) horse and they will ride it hard and put it away wet!

Super

I would first ask that you justify his personality being significantly more problematic than his peers.


But, as to why I like him, do we need to look beyond golfing achievement given he is in the public domain due to his golfing ability?

In his prime he provided the most exciting golfing TV moments this generation has seen, shots like out the bunker at the Canadian open or the chip on ANGC's 16th. To use two cliches that actually capture what he did for the game he was box office and transcended the game.  He put golf into the wider sporting sphere, Tiger stories weren't just golf stories. Quite simply I like woods for how amazingly he played the game and for how enjoyable he made watching the game.

If something about golf being hijacked like that annoyed you, say that. Don't try and clutch at straws about Tiger's personality.  And if you can't come up with coherent reasons that distinguish tiger as more unlikable than his peers don't be surprised to see the race card being played.  It is more than a little suspicious that in the world of golf (a traditionally white middle class game) in 2016 a GOAT can be hated while a man making racist comments in public is widely accepted.

kwini/shotrock

As long as he isn't well adrift at the bottom of the leaderboard I could see him trying to finish the event just to avoid more questions than necessary about his health if he did pull out.

McLaren wrote:Super

I would first ask that you justify his personality being significantly more problematic than his peers.


But, as to why I like him, do we need to look beyond golfing achievement given he is in the public domain due to his golfing ability?

In his prime he provided the most exciting golfing TV moments this generation has seen, shots like out the bunker at the Canadian open or the chip on ANGC's 16th. To use two cliches that actually capture what he did for the game he was box office and transcended the game.  He put golf into the wider sporting sphere, Tiger stories weren't just golf stories.  Quite simply I like woods for how amazingly he played the game and for how enjoyable he made watching the game.

If something about golf being hijacked like that annoyed you, say that. Don't try and clutch at straws about Tiger's personality.  And if you can't come up with coherent reasons that distinguish tiger as more unlikable than his peers don't be surprised to see the race card being played.  It is more than a little suspicious that in the world of golf (a traditionally white middle class game) in 2016 a GOAT can be hated while a man making racist comments in public is widely accepted.

Mac, you need to take your rose tinted spectacles off for a change. What separates you from us is that at the time of Woods' prime, you were an impressionable youth, to the majority of the rest of us, we'd been playing golf for years. We didn't need this guy to give us inspiration, because we were already golfers.

Sounds like it's he who inspired you into the game because you are suggestible, to me, he's just another player in the pantheon of top notch players to have played the game and I don't care if he's won 14 majors or played important shots. Show me a top golfer who hasn't played great shots, 9C is no different to any of them, and isn't capable of playing shots better than anyone else, however, he's been on a downward spiral for a very very long time. He's not even on the same course that the top guys are on now.

I've already said there are elements to many golfers I don't like, I haven't separated 9C from that, just as I dislike Watson, Zach Johnson, Ben Crane, Kevin Na etc, I dislike Woods, so if you want to play the poorly informed and badly educated SJW, that's up to you, but I don't dislike 9C due to his race, if that were the case, I'd have to dislike all the ethnic minorities in golf, and I don't.

Is 9C even disliked that much? Apart from me and a couple of others, most people I know or are aware of think he's great. Why don't you provide some of your much favoured "evidence" to prove that certain demographics dislike him due to his race. Let's see it.

Super

Is 9C even disliked that much?

Yes, he has nowhere near the admiration that the likes of Jack or Seve got.

Show me a top golfer who hasn't played great shots, 9C is no different to any of them, and isn't capable of playing shots better than anyone else

This is a pretty crazy claim, I don't know if you have watched much golf in the last 20 years but no player has played as many great shots down the stretch as Tiger. I am sure they can all play those shots on Thursday but Tiger kept doing it on a Sunday afternoon.

Still think the acid test is still to come.
Where will he tee it up next?

Probably San Diego, then possibly Phoenix and, remotely possible if he has confidence in his game, Riviera.
Then Honda and Bay Hill, both courses he's very familiar with, but both unforgivingly penal if the game is not spot on.

Can't stand US sports columnist Christine Brennan's holier-than-thou pontifications, but she might have hit a nail on the head as she looks forward to the next stage in the Woods career path:
"Humility will never be a personality trait of Tiger's (doesn't say Tiger's what), but realism sounds like it might stand a chance."

If so, his likeability level might even squeak upwards.

McLaren wrote:Super

Is 9C even disliked that much?

Yes, he has nowhere near the admiration that the likes of Jack or Seve got.

Says who?, judging by the viewing figures when 9C is on and which we are constantly being told about, and the corresponding love in with the media, I wouldn't say you're right at all.

and I asked for evidence. What is it they say? If you are going to assert something without evidence, I'll refute it without evidence?

Let's see that opinion poll or survey that backs up your assertion.

Super

Sorry I must have missed something, are you asking for everything evidence that Tiger isn't that popular?


Kwini

The acid test for Tiger is whether or not he still has a supreme short game to bail himself out. Or indeed whether he still has the chipping yips.

You're the one saying that 9C isn't popular, yet the TV ratings would sort of prove otherwise, don't you think? Not to mention the over the top media coverage. Would someone who wasn't popular get that much coverage? No, of course they wouldn't.

So if you are saying 9C isn't popular (as everyone is obviously racist)  then you should be able to provide evidence, i.e. that TV ratings go down when he plays, or that the media ignore him, or that he doesn't make tons of cash from sponsorship.

Funny you can't do that though isn't it?

Sounds like Woods chipped well yesterday, Mac, with just the one blemish. But surely the true "test" is how well his game holds up under tournament pressure, and in front of 10,000-strong galleries rather than the "300" curiosity seekers reported yesterday.

Can't imagine he'll be thrilled being out there by himself - perhaps Shotrock's right and he'll exit stage right?

Tiger Woods media frenzy explained in two words: MEAL TICKET

He'll love it Kwini, because all the focus will be on him, he'll win the longest drive on every hole and he won't have to make chit chat with another player. It will all be about him, just how he likes it.

kwinigolfer wrote:Sounds like Woods chipped well yesterday, Mac, with just the one blemish. But surely the true "test" is how well his game holds up under tournament pressure, and in front of 10,000-strong galleries rather than the "300" curiosity seekers reported yesterday

I guess if there were ever a place where a fan can get up close snd personal with top players... this is it if you could get yourself to the Bahamas.

kwinigolfer wrote:Still think the acid test is still to come.
Where will he tee it up next?

Probably San Diego, then possibly Phoenix and, remotely possible if he has confidence in his game, Riviera.
Then Honda and Bay Hill, both courses he's very familiar with, but both unforgivingly penal if the game is not spot on.

Riviera is a lock for Tiger to play from here on out... his foundation and event management group have taken over the event.... adjust any other possible West coast starts accordingly...

lock?

Davie wrote:Maybe I'm being over fussy but I don't like the way the TV coverage puts him at the top of any ties .. neither alphabetical or holes played seems to be the tie breaker - but if your name is Woods you go top of any tied positions, just to keep him up the leaderboard

Seriously? This isn't a Tiger Woods thing with American TV... they do it EVERY time with the "marquee" names regardless of who they are and regardless the event. If Rory or Spieth or Day or DJ are say T-7 with 6 "Troy Merritt's", you can bet the headliner will lead the list every time.

super_realist wrote:lock?  

Yeah... with his group taking over the event... he's a lock in the same way that his "National" and World Challenge events are locks. If he's not on the shelf with injury... He's playing... Period

“This is a fantastic opportunity for my Foundation,” Tiger Woods said. “This is the first PGA TOUR event I ever played, and it means a lot to contribute to a community that has supported me and my Foundation for more than 20 years. I’m committed to playing in my Foundation’s events, and it will be exciting to return to Riviera.”

http://www.pgatour.com/company/2016/03/29/tiger-woods-foundation-to-host-hyundai.html

I mean lock being a terrible term, like "my bad", "medalled" or "burglarised"

super_realist wrote:I mean lock being a terrible term, like "my bad",  "medalled" or "burglarised"

Huh? Is that a British thing? Not being argumentative here... I just don't understand...

super,
You're getting way behind.
This is a country where "reveal" is increasingly used as a noun and a vehicle with good reviews becomes "most awarded".
To think that my daughter still teaches English 14-y-o's . . . . . . . . hopeless task.


As for Woods, it's a pity the invitation to compete in "the first PGA TOUR event I ever played" wasn't enough to warrant his participation at Riviera in recent years.

By the way, doesn't 9C's swing look dreadful? Looks like a club golfer.

super_realist wrote:By the way, doesn't 9C's swing look dreadful? Looks like a club golfer.

super_realist wrote:I know guys who have a baseball grip and another who is cack handed and both are comfortable Cat 1 golfers. There is no "best" method for everyone. It's whatever suits.

Scorecard doesn't look dreadful though does it?

Don't think his swing looked dreadful today either - looked like he was mostly playing nicely within himself, a couple of tap-ins, a snake and hey presto.

-7 would work for me ANY day ... Nice work out there Tiger.

kwinigolfer wrote:Don't think his swing looked dreadful today either - looked like he was mostly playing nicely within himself, a couple of tap-ins, a snake and hey presto.

Yeah... score aside, that's what I liked the most... swung the club very much in balance and control today. If he'll stick with that, he could add years to his career IMO.

A reminder, if any were needed, that Stevew Sands shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a commentary booth. A most dislikeable personality who doesn't have a clue when to shut up.

Dream pairing for Golf Channel on Saturday: Fowler and Woods. Steve Sands will be wetting himself.

Credit where credit is due, Fine round by the miserable one.

pedro wrote:

Davie wrote:

Maybe I'm being over fussy but I don't like the way the TV coverage puts him at the top of any ties .. neither alphabetical or holes played seems to be the tie breaker - but if your name is Woods you go top of any tied positions, just to keep him up the leaderboard

Agree, it's nauseating. I have nothing against TW and would like to see him back on top, but all this puts me off.

Annoys me intensely. too. There is absolutely no rhyme nor reason why his name should always be at the top of every list but TV coverage - especially from America - always does it.

Incidentally, anyone else p****d off with the dreadful coverage in general? Thankfully we recorded it on Thursday and started watching after about an hour but had to stop and watch a couple of other things (Masterchef and The Apprentice) otherwise we would soon have caught up with the live coverage. It seemed to be a couple of shots, then back to the studio for some fawning over Tiiiiger by Mark Roe et al and then an ad break. It was painful to watch. Didn't bother yesterday because I was out but will have to see what happens tonight. And before all you Murdoch haters start, it's not Sky's fault - they can only show what the American channels give them.

A Tiger Woods in his prime being middle of the pack in an event like this would be a huge disappointment.  But with the questions swirling around his health/ability even 72 hours ago, I'd have to say Friday was one helluva important result for the guy.  Good for him

Lots of positives to talk about in that round, but IMO the best was the par save on #16 to remain bogey free... Especially considering the way he spit up a decent score coming in the day before.

Enjoyed Curt Byrum in the booth yesterday.... He gets it.

CB as good as SS is awful.

Should be interesting today though, but Div 2 CB'ball for me this afternoon!

Has anyone else noticed that Tiger seems to be really exaggerating getting his weight into the left heal through impact?

This is great fun to watch.

You have to wonder if playing the Nike putter was part of the deal that meant Tiger still got a Nike deal post his shagging incidents?

Just for super.

He's pathetic. Carrying on his ridiculous superstition is as bad as thanking god.

I wonder if he'll now consider his game is ready for prime time?
Led the field in birdies, but probably in double bogeys too.

Just his type of course and competition and a mix of the very, very good with physical and mental walkabouts.

prince drac reckons he'll be 650th-ish and those points in his bag should arrest his free fall for 13 wks.

San Diego then Riviera, possibly with Phoenix in between?

Kwini

I wonder if he'll now consider his game is ready for prime time?

Sky, the golf folks I follow on twitter and the NBC commentary reckon this has been a positive week for Tiger but it is clear that he is not ready for what he would consider prime time.