Lions 2017 - Name your team, captain and whatever else you want to harp on about

First topic message reminder :

My wishlist:

I hope AWJ is named captain to keep the Irish and English lads in check.
I hope Robshaw gets picked, he deserves to tour at least once at this point.
I hope the refereeing is strictly on a level playing field.
I hope NZ are made accountable for any incidents where they break anyone's collarbone and put them out of the game for 13 months.
The Lions to be at the very least competitive and win one of the first two tests.
I'd like to see Tadhg Furlong get a run out.
Would like to see an uncapped player in the squad.
No charity caps, Tom court, Shane Williams etc.
I hope Gatland comes up with a much more interesting and variable game plan than on the last Lions tour.
Dylan Hartley calls a ref the C word on the last day of the six nations and misses the tour.

TJ wrote:AJW as captain has one huge issue - he is not one of the best locks in the NH right now.  Gray, Itoje, Kruis, even Toner ahead of him to say nothing of Big Ritchie or Launchberry.

I can see Itoje ending up at 6 to try to solve this

Theres a good chance that will happen for England for the same reasons (given whos likely to be fit/injured) and the Lions anyway regardless of the captaincy. The Lions nations have a lot of quality options at lock.
The other captaincy candidates also aren't guaranteed starters in their own positions either, and the other major candidate probably blew his chance with his last suspension.

At least AWJ is capable of lasting 80 minutes

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I suspect AWJ has already been told he will be captain.

Do you really think so?

Yeah why not the Lions tour isnt that far away and the captains are normally told before it is announced. Dropping Warburton as captain was a real statement of intent. AWJ isnt a long term option at captain.

Are they normally told this far in advance though? There's so much rugby to be played.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Are they normally told this far in advance though? There's so much rugby to be played.

It is usually officially announced mid April and the captains always know in advance. Maybe not this much in advance but you never know.

Seems little benefit to him telling a player before the 6 Nations. I very much doubt he has, even if he wants AWJ as Captain if all goes well.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I suspect AWJ has already been told he will be captain.

Do you really think so?

Yeah why not the Lions tour isnt that far away and the captains are normally told before it is announced. Dropping Warburton as captain was a real statement of intent. AWJ isnt a long term option at captain.

I think you're reading too much into it.

Warburton isn't the best 7 in Wales so hes not guarenteed game time unless they shoe horn him in at 6 so theres little point having a captain whos just warming the bench.

Love Guns's team. If we're going to go down, and we probably will, let's at least go down swinging and trying to play some fun exciting stuff rather then the old truck-it-up-the-middle-slow-ruck-repeat stuff.

FWIW my team to do that:
M. Vunipola
George
Furlong
Itoje
Gray
Stander
SOB
B. Vunipola
Murray
Russell
Henshaw
Joseph
Watson
Seymour
Hogg

How anybody can pick a team to go for it and not start Tipuric is beyond me.

I tend to agree with you Mad for it. I think the lions to take on NZ should be pace adn attack minded. Still wouldn't play russell tho unless you have scots around him

Hamish Watson at 7.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Love Guns's team. If we're going to go down, and we probably will, let's at least go down swinging and trying to play some fun exciting stuff rather then the old truck-it-up-the-middle-slow-ruck-repeat stuff.

FWIW my team to do that:
M. Vunipola
George
Furlong
Itoje
Gray
Stander
SOB
B. Vunipola
Murray
Russell
Henshaw
Joseph
Watson
Seymour
Hogg

Yeah exactly. Nothing to lose because no matter how bad we do it wont be any worse than 2005. Id love to see the Lions absolutely ambush NZ like they ambushed Australia in 2001 in the first test. It may not be the easiest way to guarantee a test win but it would be glorious.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

cascough wrote:You could refute the content of my post instead of of trying to undermine my post by alleging my nationality (and insinuating that has a bearing).

It's easy to refute a reasoned argument, but it's much more difficult to debate with one-eyedness.

I'll just let you continue with your own belief that Hogg is over-rated by the millions who voted him 6N player last year, but somehow missed the all the wrong decision-making, poor passing, cr@p kicking and sh!te offloads.

He must have been running too fast for us to notice all that.

Hogg being named player of the tournament still annoys me.

Sure he was good but didn't deserve to win the title.

Clearly should have gone to the player who won 3 MOTM awards during the tournament and was nominated for world player of the year....

He's not a back though or Scottish though.... so.... always going to struggle.

Reminds me of when somehow Bowe beat Harinorduquy to the 2010 award. Again a back vs a forward....

Would that happen to be a Saracens player by chance?

Hogg was fantastic last 6N and has carried his form on since then, throughly deserved from an England fan.

Yes he's a Saracens player. Well done for noticing..... You deserve an award for that....

Sorry does that matter? Being a Saracens player didn't prevent him getting 3 MOTM awards, being massively influential and helping lead England to a GS.

Hogg was the best Scottish player. I would agree with that. Better than Billy? No. More influential than Billy? No, not at all.

You would think as an England fan you would have seen Billy Vunipola play in the 6 nations. Evidently you missed the 6 nations 2016.

Nice work BS. When you disagree, bring out the "you must have missed the 6N" comment. Why does everyone you advocate have to be a Saracens player? It's so boring and predictable. Billy was good but Hogg was excellent, hence him getting the award .

Better than Billy? Yes....although in a different position.

More influential than Billy? Yes....although in a different position.

Just open your eyes sometimes, there's other teams and players apart from Sarries you know. You're a bit of an embarrassment on here sometimes, especially with other nations involved......can you not follow Wales instead?

Sorry it's just you're an England fan and seem to have completely missed Billy's performances. I only assume you missed the 6 nations, I apologise if you actually did watch the games. Just doesn't seem like you did.

Not everyone I advocate is a Saracens player, you just pipe up when I do. Billy wasn't merely good or he wouldn't pick up 3 man of the match awards. That's why I make an obvious comment that it seems like you missed the 6 nations. I have heard nothing that suggests otherwise though.

I can understand Scotland fans missing Billy Vunipola's performances but an England fan?

What would be embarrassing is championing some random rugby player from Newcastle who you thought was superior to Itoje when all evidence suggests to the contrary.

You should try it though. Go to some pubs and talk up Sean Robinson.... He's as good as Itoje....honest....

Constantly underrating and talking down Itoje, yet so far he's not doing a bad job.....


Harinorduquy was robbed in 2010, I'll let you into a little secret, Harinorduquy isn't a Saracens player.

I just want to see the best players recognised.

Beauden Barrett was a worthy winner of player of the year 2016. I even said Farrell shouldn't have been nominated.



Ultimately it's irrelevant whether Billy Vunipola is a Saracens player or not. He was the best player in 2016 6 nations whether you agree or not.

Kruis was better.

You really are a bit of a plonker sometimes BS.

It's irrelevant whether you agree with him as he's right sarge.

Sgt Pooly why? Because I counter your load of rubbish? Posters like you and Bambam sometimes only post just to attack me. I find that tiresome too.

Mad for Chelsea interesting looking team. Who is your captain?

no 7 & 1/2 not all the time but in this case yes. I think Kruis had a good 6 nations but I think Billy outperformed him over the 5 games.

RiscaRev wrote:How anybody can pick a team to go for it and not start Tipuric is beyond me.

TJ wrote:Hamish Watson at 7.

Fair points, I was struggling at 7, Haskell and Warbs don't really fit the gameplan I'd want (for different reasons), and I think Hardie has a long term injury, so went with SOB, though I think the Irish are saying his form hasn't been that great recently? Forgot about Tips, he'd probably be my pick, provides a great link between forwards and backs. Watson also a decent shout, was quite impressed by him in the AIs.

@beshocked, probably Gray, Itoje another possibility. Maybe also Murray (not sure he's ever captained Munster or Ireland, but strikes me as a decent leader), but SHs tend to get subbed at some point, and would prefer my captain to last all 80.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's irrelevant whether you agree with him as he's right sarge.

I know mate, he's just infuriating. We've been through this time and time again and he just spouts the same old nonsense, I'll have to utilise the ignore function again I think.

You're the one attacking me Sgt Pooly. Expect me to defend myself. Especially when you show a lack of knowledge of rugby and show no evidence of actually watching England play in the 6 nations.

Mad for Chelsea some very good choices there as captain. Do like your lineup, especially the backrow.

Stander,O Brien and Billy certainly could have the physicality to take the fight to NZ.

My only question mark would be Russell but if he has a big 6 nations I'd happily change my tune.

Henshaw-Joseph could be exciting too.

Ahhhhhhh.....the ignore function in all its glory. Thanks 606

I never block. Can't see how you think Vunipola was better than Kruis beshocked I'm assuming it was his showy work. You changed your mind on Barrett in the end as you said you wold vote Billy then.

Me neither really, but in this case it's heaven.

Tipuric is in the form of his life right now. People have rightly pointed out Jonny Gray's awesome tackle stats. Tipuric (as of last week) is something like 160 tackles made, NONE missed in ANY competition this season! Hasn't missed a tackle since before the summer and has scored and set up some great tries too. I hope he has a stormer this 6 nations.

Griff wrote:Tipuric is in the form of his life right now. People have rightly pointed out Jonny Gray's awesome tackle stats. Tipuric (as of last week) is something like 160 tackles made, NONE missed in ANY competition this season! Hasn't missed a tackle since before the summer and has scored and set up some great tries too. I hope he has a stormer this 6 nations.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/already-seen-try-season-stunning-12029888

No other forward in the NH could have scored this

Griff wrote:Tipuric is in the form of his life right now. People have rightly pointed out Jonny Gray's awesome tackle stats. Tipuric (as of last week) is something like 160 tackles made, NONE missed in ANY competition this season! Hasn't missed a tackle since before the summer and has scored and set up some great tries too. I hope he has a stormer this 6 nations.

Tipuric is old news IMO. Best Croatian rugby player of all time but not a Lions starter for me.

I really like Tips but he does lack physicality. He's obviously very noticeable but I'm not sure if he's good enough to be a starter.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I never block. Can't see how you think Vunipola was better than Kruis beshocked I'm assuming it was his showy work. You changed your mind on Barrett in the end as you said you wold vote Billy then.

Still think Barrett was a worthy winner even if I personally would have voted for Billy.

Making hard yards perhaps is something you call showy but I thought Billy gave England good go forward and also got England out of trouble too.

True Raven wrote:

Griff wrote:Tipuric is in the form of his life right now. People have rightly pointed out Jonny Gray's awesome tackle stats. Tipuric (as of last week) is something like 160 tackles made, NONE missed in ANY competition this season! Hasn't missed a tackle since before the summer and has scored and set up some great tries too. I hope he has a stormer this 6 nations.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/already-seen-try-season-stunning-12029888

No other forward in the NH could have scored this

good but not that good.  Hamish Watson is quicker - regularly outpaces backs.  Plenty of other players could have scored that but its a good opportunist try

If you want pace at 7 Watson is your man Can't find a clip now but he recently got try where he (IIRC) set up a break then followed the back with the ball and was in a position to score by outpacing defenders. Young. some say too small but faster than many backs. Bust a gut every time he plays

Newcastle clearly have a great deal of confidence in their restarts, the only bloke they leave to make a tackle on the opposition if they take it cleanly is a titchy scrum-half

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I suspect AWJ has already been told he will be captain.

Do you really think so?

Yes i do.

I think he was told he was going to be Captain of the Lions, the moment they decided to drop Warburton from the Welsh captaincy and Gave it AWJ.

So if Wales do well in the 6ns this year. Then they can say that is why we gave the Captains arm band to AWJ and that is why he is Captain of the Lions

But Wales are 3rd favourites.

I do love a good stat me ad I wish we got stats on 40 or 60 m times

No Kruis was better beshocked whether you agree or not.

After the 6 nations...

No 7&1/2 wrote:No Kruis was better beshocked whether you agree or not.

In your own mind only.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Griff wrote:Tipuric is in the form of his life right now. People have rightly pointed out Jonny Gray's awesome tackle stats. Tipuric (as of last week) is something like 160 tackles made, NONE missed in ANY competition this season! Hasn't missed a tackle since before the summer and has scored and set up some great tries too. I hope he has a stormer this 6 nations.

Tipuric is old news IMO. Best Croatian rugby player of all time but not a Lions starter for me.

'Old news' seems an odd comment because a) he's playing better than ever (whereas old news might suggest being in decline), and b) he's looking like ousting Warburton from the Wales 7 shirt in a permanent basis which he's never managed to do consistently before. I think he's new news! The revival of Tips!

Just another example of how we tend to promote our own and slate players for other nations. E.g. Hamish Watson. Don't see it personally. But that's probably more to do with lack of familiarity than anything.

Ah you're starting to see that's a stupid reason and thing to say beshocked!

Never even heard of Hamish Watson.

TJ wrote:

True Raven wrote:

Griff wrote:Tipuric is in the form of his life right now. People have rightly pointed out Jonny Gray's awesome tackle stats. Tipuric (as of last week) is something like 160 tackles made, NONE missed in ANY competition this season! Hasn't missed a tackle since before the summer and has scored and set up some great tries too. I hope he has a stormer this 6 nations.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/already-seen-try-season-stunning-12029888

No other forward in the NH could have scored this

good but not that good.  Hamish Watson is quicker - regularly outpaces backs.  Plenty of other players could have scored that but its a good opportunist try

If you want pace at 7 Watson is your man  Can't find a clip now but he recently got  try where he (IIRC) set up a break then followed the back with the ball and was in a position to score by outpacing defenders.  Young. some say too small but faster than many backs.  Bust a gut every time he plays

TJ - I think you are being a little to premature for Watson. had a couple fo good games at International - lets not get carried away....

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Never even heard of Hamish Watson.

Edinburgh and Scotland openside, he broke into the Scotland pack in the AIs and did well. Very small but makes a pest of himself.

Not a Lion yet in my book.

Fair enough. Born in England I see.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah you're starting to see that's a stupid reason and thing to say beshocked!

No. I wonder if you watched the 6 nations 2016. I know Sgt Pooly didn't.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Fair enough. Born in England I see.

Yes, and played in the Leicester Academy as a kid. He qualifies for Scotland on account of his name.

I've asked that my children be given Fijian names, so that they can play for the All Blacks.

Laughable beshocked.

No 7 & 1/2 Please stop trying to make every thread about you and me. I know you are big fan of me but come on...... I am not interested.

Let's move back on topic now.

Just have to comment when I see flawed statements.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Fair enough. Born in England I see.

Yes, and played in the Leicester Academy as a kid. He qualifies for Scotland on account of his name.

I've asked that my children be given Fijian names, so that they can play for the All Blacks.

Watson is not a serious suggestion but a good 6N might see that change.  I'd bet he is the fastest back row around tho. good bet for a "bolter"?

FES - too true - how could he play for anyone but Scotland!  A bit like that celebrated Englishman Rupert Moon and welshman Dewi Morris
*scratches head*   ;-)

I just googled Hamish Watson. I wonder if Gats has done the same

Gooseberry wrote:At least AWJ is capable of lasting 80 minutes

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I really like Tips but he does lack physicality. He's obviously very noticeable but I'm not sure if he's good enough to be a starter.

Tipuric's concussion was really unfortunate for him. Going down to NZ would have been a great opportunity to see how able he really is at that sort of intensity.

He's also better than Hamish Watson. That's a really strange opinion.