Lions team announced - AWJ captain & BOD dropped

by GLove39 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 3:28

Given the whole Horwill incident that adds another interesting edge to Saturdays game!

Gatland names 10 Welshman in his starting XV.
And Richie Gray becomes this weeks token Scot...

1. Corbisiero,
2. Hibbard,
3. A Jones,
4. A W Jones (c),
5. Parling,
6. Lydiate,
7. O'Brien,
8. Faletau

9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davis
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

Bench - T Youngs, Vunipola, Cole, Gray, Tipuric, Murray, Farrell, Tuilagi.

by Standulstermen Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 3:53

Massive, massive calls there!

Gatland is reverting back to what he knows, the power game. The only selection that hasn't really gone that wa is parling retained over Gray. The lions should have a serious edge at scrum time and if the lineout is sorted it could be a long day for the Aussies.

Obviously fitness will play an issue with the returning guys as well. The fallout from this selection will be massive if the lions lose (sadly that's the way it will be).

Best of luck to the lads and especially AWJ! Come on!,

by red_stag Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 4:20

Gatland will cop a lot of stick but it takes serious cahones to drop a guy like O'Driscoll for a winner take all game especially with O'Connell and Warburton both out.

He has nailed his colours to the mast and will be judged on it.

I actually quite like the team. There are a lot of ball carriers in there. Hibbard, Falatau, O'Brien and Roberts will bring a lot.

If we can bosh our way into Aussie territory and force penalties for Halfpenny to kick I'm happy enough once we win.

This is also a better bench than we've had in other tests. Vunipola, Tipuric and Tuilagi will be key subs for us.

by EST Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 4:25

Some very big calls, but I actually think that team is the best one on paper thus far. If you are going to play the Gatland way, then you need the personnel to fulfil those roles- this team has that.

The bench has a much better balance also - some serious impact there.

by B91212 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 5:10

Fair play to Gatland, a very bold call regarding O'Driscoll. I feel very disappointed for BOD, the potential to lead the team in his final Lions test and the series decider after his Lions history almost felt like it was meant to be. Still what's best for the team should always be the criteria for selecting players, not sentiment. Its one of the rare occasions on the 2013 tour where I actually agree with the head coach.

As others have mentioned Gatland is certainly going all or bust with the style of rugby he knows and trusts. I do howevet wish he had a plan b! Im not ecstatic to see Phillips starting after his poor showing in the first test although none of the 9's have made a compelling case to make the jersey their own.

On paper strong in the scrum and carrying but not many options in the line out so expect Aus to put some pressure on there. Bench looks more than useful if called upon, players like Vunipola, T. Youngs, Tipiric & Tuilagi are all potentially impact type subs who could make a difference against tiring opposition. Overall I'm not too displeased with the 23 selected.

by fa0019 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:05

Confident anyone??? When I read the news my head dropped.

I never felt been less assured of victory then the 3rd test in 05. I've been watching the lions for over 20 years but never have seen a team throw away a match like I think may happen. Gatland has balls sure, brains; either a genius or should be locked up in broadmoor.

If this team goes down by 10 points at any time, we're done for... It could be messy.

All this talk about Roberts being fit is a joke. 3 weeks off with a groin injury does not mean you maintain fitness or sharpness. Don't expect him to be full guns blazing. It's a call based on what a player has achieved in the past.. Not what can realistically be achieved now.

It reminds me of a when a firm names a preferred bidder for a contract they're about to reward... Other bidders are technically still in with a chance but in reality the following process is nothing short of a coronation.

by doctornickolas Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:10

To be fair I think that is a much better side than we have seen to date in the tests.

i would seriously question Parling's inclusion ahea dof Gray as if we are playing th epower game than why pick someone who couldn't wrestle a butterfly. I guess he is thinking he has enough power elsewhere to compensate.

I think all the people who called for Youngs at 9 will be disappointed but he clearly wasn't up to it. I would maybe have gone for Murray to start but can see why he has gone for Mike.

Good team. Lets destroy Australia up front and bet them up behind.

i would like to see Gray and Murray on at about 50 mins and Tuilagi on playing 13 at some point, just when the Ozzie thinks they can't take any more.

Lione to win by 10.

by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:14

fa0019 wrote:Confident anyone??? When I read the news my head dropped.

I never felt been less assured of victory then the 3rd test in 05. I've been watching the lions for over 20 years but never have seen a team throw away a match like I think may happen. Gatland has balls sure, brains; either a genius or should be locked up in broadmoor.

If this team goes down by 10 points at any time, we're done for... It could be messy.

All this talk about Roberts being fit is a joke. 3 weeks off with a groin injury does not mean you maintain fitness or sharpness. Don't expect him to be full guns blazing. It's a call based on what a player has achieved in the past.. Not what can realistically be achieved now.

It reminds me of a when a firm names a preferred bidder for a contract they're about to reward... Other bidders are technically still in with a chance but in reality the following process is nothing short of a coronation.

unfortunately Gats picked only one specialist inside centre & because of his (Roberts') injury inevitably it has come back to bite us.

Roberts fitness
Hibbards throwing
Phillips form/injury
No creativity in the centres.

agree with Faletau & SOB selections though.

classy bench - get 'em all on after 10 minutes.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:18

I'm furious with the selection. Gray becomes this weeks token Scot, I have no desire to see the lions win this game. Gatland 's name is now synonymous with SCW IMO. He has picked what he knows and it has become a Welsh tour with cameo's from other nations players.

Grant and Hogg have been wasted on this tour and have never been given a chance, Hogg was never a 10 and Kearney was never ever 100% fit IMO and Grant's treatment last week was appalling. This final selection of players to execute a flawed game plan is the last straw for me.

by trebellbobaggins Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:24

He is picking what he knows even if it hasn't performed or isn't fit.

It's a gamble , we shall see.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:25

Matt Stevens has been sharing his gear again.

by HammerofThunor Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:26

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Matt Stevens has been sharing his gear again.

Yeah, that joke was so good it needed repeating.

by Cardiff Taffy Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:32

Massive calls. Gatland never bows to external pressure. Win or lose he's shown why he was chosen.

by red_stag Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:33

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm furious with the selection. Gray becomes this weeks token Scot, I have no desire to see the lions win this game. Gatland 's name is now synonymous with SCW IMO. He has picked what he knows and it has become a Welsh tour with cameo's from other nations players.

Can't understand this attitude. Boo hoo hoo he didn't pick more of my favourite players so I want the Lions to lose??

I see a lot of it from my fellow Irish fans (facebook not on this site) because BOD isn't playing.

by **Ozzy3213** Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:36

Gatland effectively painted himself into a corner with his initial squad selection and subsequent matchday squads for test one and two. Having lost last week, and the manner of defeat, with 0 linebreaks and never really threatening a try beyond the opening few minutes, this sort of side was always going to be selected.

In some ways I am saddened as I would prefer to see a more representative selection, but I understand that this is professional sport and in times oif crisis managers go with what they know. Sadly, whatever the result on Saturday this tour will be tarnished in some peoples eyes.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:37

What he is doing is akin to a WWI general. Wastefully throwing men at machine guns, knowing it isn't working but too stubborn and afraid to lose face so he won't change tactic.

Throwing these massive backs at the Australia backline has been tried tested and failed for the last couple of years but here we are again, ready and waiting to watch Roberts and co. bish, bash and bosh away for 80 minutes.

Ever seen a fly at a window trying to get outside?

by t1000advancedprototype Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:37

4 KEY POINTS

1. BOD been weak in attack most of the tour
2. He kicked advantage away for first try
3. He even said some of Davies' s performances have been the best he's ever seen from a centre.
4. Roberts (man of the series) is fit and is a proven winner with Davies.

by t1000advancedprototype Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:38

I got behind the team in 1997, 2001 and 2005 when 67 English started the tests.

You guys should too!

by **Ozzy3213** Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:38

t1000advancedprototype wrote:4 KEY POINTS

1. BOD been weak in attack most of the tour
2. He kicked advantage away for first try
3. He even said some of Davies' s performances have been the best he's ever seen from a centre.
4. Roberts (man of the series) is fit and is a proven winner with Davies.

???

by t1000advancedprototype Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:40

Do you understand English?

by red_stag Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:41

Ozzy I assume he means the last series.

by nathan Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:42

t1000advancedprototype wrote:I got behind the team in 1997, 2001 and 2005 when 67 English started the tests.

You guys should too!

Riiiight, that's why we see all your posts regarding CW....

by **Ozzy3213** Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:45

t1000 are you addressing me with the understanding English question? If you want to talk rugby then lets do so, but please refrain from the quasi-abusive tone that is present when posing a question of that nature.

If as Stag suggests you are referring to a man of series award from 4 years ago, what relevance does that actually have here and now? 4 years ago I was 2 stone lighter and about 4 seconds quicker over 100 yards. Times and people change fella, as does rugby, and what was effective then may not be the right answer now.

by valtrepkos Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:46

I'm really pleased faletau has gotten the nod - I'm less thrilled with the centre pair and I've concerns now over the line out but hope I'm wrong

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:47

red_stag wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm furious with the selection. Gray becomes this weeks token Scot, I have no desire to see the lions win this game. Gatland 's name is now synonymous with SCW IMO. He has picked what he knows and it has become a Welsh tour with cameo's from other nations players.

Can't understand this attitude. Boo hoo hoo he didn't pick more of my favourite players so I want the Lions to lose??

I see a lot of it from my fellow Irish fans (facebook not on this site) because BOD isn't playing.

You call it what you want stag. Easy to say stuff like that when you have starters.

our players have been shafted this tour.

1. Maitland, created plenty of space and tries for people, on the bench for the 1st Test, not used. Dropped next week for a player who had been injured for 2 weeks and now cast on the lions scrap heap.

2. Grant, the Pro12 loosehead of the season initially ignored for the Toulon bench warmer and a Gatland favourite in the form of Jenkins. Bench warming for the 2nd test and watched from the sidelines as Vinapola got his erse handed to him for the 1st quarter and watched as he was blacking out from exhaustion in the 4th quarter, again scrapped for the 3rd test.

3. Hogg, brought as a utility back. Never given a chance to properly stake his claim for a back 3 slot because a clearly unfit Kearney was brought along. Never been given a chance at the test matches.

4. Gray, never put a foot wrong and has been pretty much top tackler in every game he has played as well as doing his share or carrying, lineout work, scrum work and breakdown work. Will he play this weekend or will Gatland not want to risk playing a Scottish player......

TO BE CONTINUED.......

by Rob B Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:48

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:What he is doing is akin to a WWI general. Wastefully throwing men at machine guns, knowing it isn't working but too stubborn and afraid to lose face so he won't change tactic.

Gatland's answer to Gallipoli?

by t1000advancedprototype Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:48

Roberts is not in his mid 30s and is still playing excellent.

That's the difference.

by GunsGerms Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:50

t1000advancedprototype wrote:4 KEY POINTS

1. BOD been weak in attack most of the tour
2. He kicked advantage away for first try
3. He even said some of Davies' s performances have been the best he's ever seen from a centre.
4. Roberts (man of the series) is fit and is a proven winner with Davies.

Name a centre who hasnt been weak in attack. Plus BOD hasnt had much ball.
Davies missed tackle on AAC cost us the series.
See above
Certainly hasnt been man of this series but equally has played well with BOD.

by valtrepkos Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:51

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Roberts is not in his mid 30s and is still playing excellent.

That's the difference.

He's steady but by no means outstanding - personally I think Roberts is the most disappointing of all the selections

by jimmyinthewell68 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:51

good luck lions Saturday unlucky to the players not involved with the tests but u still a lion and u been picked ahead of so many players . must be hugely disappointing not to be included against Australia side in the 3 test . i think bod more so i expected he and many others thought he be named captain in his last ever lions shirt . i do like this team and people who says there no creativity in the centres obviously not seen Jonathan Davies at his best

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:54

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:good luck lions Saturday unlucky to the players not involved with the tests but u still a lion and u been picked ahead of so many players . must be hugely disappointing not to be included against Australia side in the 3 test . i think bod more so i expected he and many others thought he be named captain in his last ever lions shirt . i do like this team and people who says there no creativity in the centres obviously not seen Jonathan Davies at his best

Did we see him at his best on Saturday? Because we created nothing for 80minutes.

by **Ozzy3213** Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:58

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Roberts is not in his mid 30s and is still playing excellent.

That's the difference.

Mate, I am not saying that Roberts is abad selection, he would be in my side for this test. But harping on about what he did 4 years ago is nonsense.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 7:59

Great to see Faletau given a shot, Heaslip has been pretty poor tbh.

by GunsGerms Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:01

Wales v australia. Hopefully 9th time lucky for Gatland. Its the Lions and I will be supporting them but of course but Gatlands tactics and selections have been frustrating.

by **Ozzy3213** Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:02

GunsGerms wrote:Wales v australia. Hopefully 9th time lucky for Gatland. Its the Lions and I will be supporting them but of course but Gatlands tactics and selections have been frustrating.

My sentiments exactly.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:07

Ozzy3213 wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Wales v australia. Hopefully 9th time lucky for Gatland. Its the Lions and I will be supporting them but of course but Gatlands tactics and selections have been frustrating.

My sentiments exactly.

At least you have players on the pitch. You can feel your players have contributed.

by Cardiff Taffy Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:08

Disappointment is understandable but someone always has to miss out. None of the calls seem wild or reckless to me.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:11

Agree Taffy, it's extremely Welsh heavy but each player could be justified really.

Mike Phillips is the luckiest guy on the team sheet for me, Gatland seems to have forgotten that display in the first test.

by thomh Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:12

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Grant and Hogg have been wasted on this tour and have never been given a chance, Hogg was never a 10 and Kearney was never ever 100% fit IMO and Grant's treatment last week was appalling. This final selection of players to execute a flawed game plan is the last straw for me.

In the build up to the first test Hogg started as many games at full back as anyone else, and he didn't do that well. The chance to play another couple of games at 10 was a bonus for him.

by thomh Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:16

Roberts over Tuilagi is the only big call here that I find frustrating. On the whole he's had a worse season, he was having a pretty mediocre tour (against Combined Country in particular) and now he's been injured for two weeks.

by red_stag Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:17

Radge,

Some players sadly have to miss out.

You could claim that Richard Hibbard good pre tour form was ignored or Justin Tipuric got a raw deal after his dazzling displays early on or that since day one Ian Evans has always really been the "5th choice lock".

Everyone feels aggrieved when a tight call goes against them. I can tell you out here in Australia the other Irish lads on my tour are cursing Gatland for dropping BOD as if it is the most obvious mistake and there are people making stupid claims about hoping they get thrashed to teach the Welsh a lesson and all kinds of nonsense.

Maitland was realistically not in same league as North or Bowe. To be honest many Irish people felt that Zebo's display against the Rebels should have seen him on the Test Match bench rather than Maitland. He has played in 5 of the 10 matches which is fair enough given how competitive the other options are.

Hogg is pretty much the same. Halfpenny is the first name on team sheet and its clear that Hoggs style isn't what was looked for in contrast to Halfpenny or Kearney.

Gray simply put isn't playing well enough. Two years ago he was a guarantee on everyones fantasy Lions selections but he hasn't delivered this year.

Grant was very unlucky but with so many Welsh and English front rows selected (along with English scrum coach) and a short period of time I would imagine Rowantree wanted men he knew could work with him easily. This was probably a factor in Rory Best missing out too.

Kelly Brown should have travelled also without a doubt. Thats a given.

Like I say be cranky all you want but do you really think that after so long on tour that the likes of Gray or Maitland or Hogg want to celebrate a successful tour or be part of a losing squad?

by t1000advancedprototype Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:18

Surprised Shane Williams didn't make a bench spot.

by valtrepkos Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:19

thomh wrote:Roberts over Tuilagi is the only big call here that I find frustrating. On the whole he's had a worse season, he was having a pretty mediocre tour (against Combined Country in particular) and now he's been injured for two weeks.

100% agree

by Cyril Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:22

Underwhelming.

Looks like we're going to try to just bosh it up the middle and try and either out-tackle or wear down the Aussies (yet again).

Gatland-ball. Great.

Let's just hope Halfpenny has his kicking boots on as it's going to be multiples of 3 for the Lions.

by GunsGerms Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:29

When all is said an done I hope we win because we have a better squad of players. Come on Wales!

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:34

I was calling for O'Driscoll to be dropped, but I never thought it would happen. Fair play to Gatland, he hasn't selected on sentiment. A series win has to take priority over a fairytale ending.

Will we lose on-field leadership without O'Driscoll? It could be that Gatland hasn't seen the leadership he expected from O'Driscoll (and to a lesser extent Jamie Heaslip) in the Test series so far.

Has Jonathan Davies covered himself in glory in the first two Tests? Before you answer that, ask yourself how O'Driscoll would have fared if he'd been asked to play inside centre.

As for how Davies has performed at outside centre on tour, O'Driscoll himself has been praising him. I don't see how selecting the best-performing outside centre at outside centre is a bad call.

by GloriousEmpire Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:37

"If we can bosh our way into Aussie territory and force penalties for Halfpenny to kick I'm happy enough once we win."

Sigh. Sir Clive! Welcome to the site. Update for you: it's not 2002 any more. A coalition in invaded Iraq Nd Afghanistan, there were no WMDs, Obama was elected as first black president of the USA, riots broke out in London, Arab nation populations rose up against their western sponsored state oppressors and there was a big tsunami. Right you're up to date.

Sexton at 10 = too much ball for Aussie back three = Lions lose.

by jimmyinthewell68 Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:40

its pretty sad wanting the lions to lose because there to many Welsh players and bod isn't involved . 2005 i routed for the mainly English lions all the way even tho i was disappointed not having my fav Welsh players involved . come Saturday ur not British or Irish if ur not cheering the lions

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:42

Speaking of Sexton, I hope Gatland won't hesitate to bring on Owen Farrell is it's not happening for him. Considering how the Lions are likely to play, Farrell could be the better fit anyway.

by beshocked Wed 3 Jul 2013 - 8:45

To be fair to Gatland I actually think he's made some decent calls.

It takes cahones to drop BOD. Fair play.

Should be a better scrum. Better ball carrying in the forwards. Could be potentially better in the centres.

Though calls I question - bringing back Phillips and keeping Bowe.

Bench looks very strong though. Could well make a decent impact.

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