6N 2017: Italy v Wales, 5 February

marty2086 wrote:He's his own worst enemy at times, can see O'Shea giving the role to one of the younger players sometime soon if he keeps it up

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I though JP Doyle had a magnificent game yesterday, he let the game flow and got all the crucial call correct.

JP Doyle is a very good referee and he always refs games to a very high standard, what I would give to have him in the Pro12. He is Irish after all.

You mean except for the calls he got wrong?

Marty, bugger off.

Unless you are going to say something constructive instead of constantly arguing don't bother.

munkian wrote:

marty2086 wrote:He's his own worst enemy at times, can see O'Shea giving the role to one of the younger players sometime soon if he keeps it up

Heaslip is certainly going to need a good game mind.

munkian wrote:

marty2086 wrote:He's his own worst enemy at times, can see O'Shea giving the role to one of the younger players sometime soon if he keeps it up

Heaslip is certainly going to need a good game mind.

marty2086 wrote:

munkian wrote:

marty2086 wrote:He's his own worst enemy at times, can see O'Shea giving the role to one of the younger players sometime soon if he keeps it up

Heaslip is certainly going to need a good game mind.

If Heaslips gets selected

SecretFly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

munkian wrote:

marty2086 wrote:He's his own worst enemy at times, can see O'Shea giving the role to one of the younger players sometime soon if he keeps it up

Heaslip is certainly going to need a good game mind.

If Heaslips gets selected

Maybe he'll stand in for Murray?  He might speed things up in that department.

Cyril wrote:Parisse looked back to his best but needs to keep a reign on his complaining. He really does have a reputation for winding up referees now, together with his love of holding up imaginary cards. He didn't help Italy at all yesterday when Wales started to get the upper hand.

Doyle is a pretty rubbish ref and had another confusing day at the office but it had no impact on the result - even if he was determined to block Italian defenders on the try-line

majesticimperialman wrote:Well first week end over and Wales, i belive in the lead at top of the table.

Well done Wales But the game as just started, lets see who is in the lead at the end.

RiscaGame wrote:Wonder if people still think Sam Davies shouldn't start over Biggar?

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

Cyril wrote:Parisse looked back to his best but needs to keep a reign on his complaining. He really does have a reputation for winding up referees now, together with his love of holding up imaginary cards. He didn't help Italy at all yesterday when Wales started to get the upper hand.

Doyle is a pretty rubbish ref and had another confusing day at the office but it had no impact on the result - even if he was determined to block Italian defenders on the try-line

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

I have no idea how that is only a penalty, I have seen plenty of those tackles in the last few years and they are never given

Yes the legs go above the horizontal but he drives him straight back and onto his back

For me it was textbook and safe

Griff wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

I have no idea how that is only a penalty, I have seen plenty of those tackles in the last few years and they are never given

Yes the legs go above the horizontal but he drives him straight back and onto his back

For me it was textbook and safe

I've seen plenty given as a penalty.  Wales v Ireland (was it last year or the year before?) was a classic example and I think gave us a penalty to win the game?  Most club games have these given as penalties.  If the legs go above the horizontal it gets penalized, regardless of whether the player lands on his back, shoulder or neck.  It's just the sanction that changes.  Wayne Barnes did a video interview in the 6N warm up programme before the Scotland v Ireland game in the weekend and he said then that legs above the horizontal would be a penalty all day.  Landing on the back (safely) but legs above horizontal = penalty; landing more on the shoulder/neck could or should be a yellow or even red.  It's been reffed like this for years since the 2011 world cup when they first started tightening up on the tip tackles.

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:Parisse looked back to his best but needs to keep a reign on his complaining. He really does have a reputation for winding up referees now, together with his love of holding up imaginary cards. He didn't help Italy at all yesterday when Wales started to get the upper hand.

Doyle is a pretty rubbish ref and had another confusing day at the office but it had no impact on the result - even if he was determined to block Italian defenders on the try-line

He is bad but not too bad for an English ref. Though in fairness anyone would be better than Barnes.

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:Parisse looked back to his best but needs to keep a reign on his complaining. He really does have a reputation for winding up referees now, together with his love of holding up imaginary cards. He didn't help Italy at all yesterday when Wales started to get the upper hand.

Doyle is a pretty rubbish ref and had another confusing day at the office but it had no impact on the result - even if he was determined to block Italian defenders on the try-line

He is bad but not too bad for an English ref. Though in fairness anyone would be better than Barnes.

Are there any good Irish referees? Even the Anglo-Irish ones are terrible.

Griff wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

I have no idea how that is only a penalty, I have seen plenty of those tackles in the last few years and they are never given

Yes the legs go above the horizontal but he drives him straight back and onto his back

For me it was textbook and safe

I've seen plenty given as a penalty.  Wales v Ireland (was it last year or the year before?) was a classic example and I think gave us a penalty to win the game?  Most club games have these given as penalties.  If the legs go above the horizontal it gets penalized, regardless of whether the player lands on his back, shoulder or neck.  It's just the sanction that changes.  Wayne Barnes did a video interview in the 6N warm up programme before the Scotland v Ireland game in the weekend and he said then that legs above the horizontal would be a penalty all day.  Landing on the back (safely) but legs above horizontal = penalty; landing more on the shoulder/neck could or should be a yellow or even red.  It's been reffed like this for years since the 2011 world cup when they first started tightening up on the tip tackles.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Griff wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

I have no idea how that is only a penalty, I have seen plenty of those tackles in the last few years and they are never given

Yes the legs go above the horizontal but he drives him straight back and onto his back

For me it was textbook and safe

I've seen plenty given as a penalty.  Wales v Ireland (was it last year or the year before?) was a classic example and I think gave us a penalty to win the game?  Most club games have these given as penalties.  If the legs go above the horizontal it gets penalized, regardless of whether the player lands on his back, shoulder or neck.  It's just the sanction that changes.  Wayne Barnes did a video interview in the 6N warm up programme before the Scotland v Ireland game in the weekend and he said then that legs above the horizontal would be a penalty all day.  Landing on the back (safely) but legs above horizontal = penalty; landing more on the shoulder/neck could or should be a yellow or even red.  It's been reffed like this for years since the 2011 world cup when they first started tightening up on the tip tackles.

When the citing commissioner reviewed that incident they ruled that Barnes had been incorrect to award a penalty and it was a fair tackle. Typical Barnes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/9070271/Six-Nations-2012-panel-said-Ireland-flanker-Stephen-Ferris-tackle-did-not-even-warrant-a-penalty.html

LordDowlais wrote:Christ on a bike, Ireland lose their opener to Scotland and we are getting it in the neck on this thread off them.

Griff wrote:

5 years on now though, Guns.  They're more strict on that rule now.  Just like they're more strict on the high tackle now.

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

I have no idea how that is only a penalty, I have seen plenty of those tackles in the last few years and they are never given

Yes the legs go above the horizontal but he drives him straight back and onto his back

For me it was textbook and safe

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

I have no idea how that is only a penalty, I have seen plenty of those tackles in the last few years and they are never given

Yes the legs go above the horizontal but he drives him straight back and onto his back

For me it was textbook and safe

What? In what textbook is that? You're specifically taught as a child that dump tackling is illegal.

To make matters worse he drives him- as you yourself have said- into the ground! There was a time when that was more heinous than letting go of the player mid tackle.




I think you're conflating 'holiding on' to the tackled player, which is safe, and tipping him above the horizontal, turning your shoulder so that it's facing the ground, and then driving the player from this position, with his back and your shoulder in a T shape.

It could easily have been a red, albeit it harsh, as it was 'good' technique in that he smashed him in the tackle. The problem was how he continued to drive him into the ground, and clearly with intent. Had Moriarty not clipped another Welsh player to stop the dump becoming a tip it would have been a very different outcome. How a card wasn't shown at all, I genuinely do not know.

Gwlad wrote:

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Re: ref. Two big decisions: first the dump tackle where he drives Moriarty into the ground. I have no idea how that is only a penalty. Bemusing. Secondly, could easily have been a penalty for knocking the bal out of Liam Williams' hand at the end (and therefore penalty try, in the act of grounding the ball).

I have no idea how that is only a penalty, I have seen plenty of those tackles in the last few years and they are never given

Yes the legs go above the horizontal but he drives him straight back and onto his back

For me it was textbook and safe

What? In what textbook is that? You're specifically taught as a child that dump tackling is illegal.

To make matters worse he drives him- as you yourself have said- into the ground! There was a time when that was more heinous than letting go of the player mid tackle.




I think you're conflating 'holiding on' to the tackled player, which is safe, and tipping him above the horizontal, turning your shoulder so that it's facing the ground, and then driving the player from this position, with his back and your shoulder in a T shape.

It could easily have been a red, albeit it harsh, as it was 'good' technique in that he smashed him in the tackle. The problem was how he continued to drive him into the ground, and clearly with intent. Had Moriarty not clipped another Welsh player to stop the dump becoming a tip it would have been a very different outcome. How a card wasn't shown at all, I genuinely do not know.

POPPYCOCK