Super Rugby 2017 Season

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The Blues went to Melbourne and smashed the Rebels 18-56. The Rebels led something like 12-3 after about 25 minutes then just started turning the ball over and got blown away.

Rieko Ioane scored a hat trick of tries. He and his brother Akira have looked good prospects for a while.

toml wrote:No way the Australians can get rid of the Force over the Rebels. Force are thrashing the Waratahs to get their 6th win of the season compared to the Rebels 1... It's a no brainer.

I think the Rebels will be merged into one of the other teams in order to retain their Aussie players. Losing the Force would see the ARU without a team in the Western half of the country. As you say the Force are the second best team in Australia and are supported financially by the local government in Perth (who have cash). Be mad to disband the Force.

Just saw the Sunwolves marmalised the Blues. Pretty impressive. First time in awhile I've seen a NZ team look bettered for fitness and offloading.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

toml wrote:No way the Australians can get rid of the Force over the Rebels. Force are thrashing the Waratahs to get their 6th win of the season compared to the Rebels 1... It's a no brainer.

I think the Rebels will be merged into one of the other teams in order to retain their Aussie players. Losing the Force would see the ARU without a team in the Western half of the country. As you say the Force are the second best team in Australia and are supported financially by the local government in Perth (who have cash). Be mad to disband the Force.

I believe the Rebels are privately owned and the owners have a contractual agreement with the ARU meaning that if they were to be axed the ARU would have to fork out millions to pay them off...so the Force will definitely be axed rather than the Rebels.

And there's plenty of talk in SA of the Cheetahs and Kings joining the PRO 12

Mr Fishpaste wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

toml wrote:No way the Australians can get rid of the Force over the Rebels. Force are thrashing the Waratahs to get their 6th win of the season compared to the Rebels 1... It's a no brainer.

I think the Rebels will be merged into one of the other teams in order to retain their Aussie players. Losing the Force would see the ARU without a team in the Western half of the country. As you say the Force are the second best team in Australia and are supported financially by the local government in Perth (who have cash). Be mad to disband the Force.

I believe the Rebels are privately owned and the owners have a contractual agreement with the ARU meaning that if they were to be axed the ARU would have to fork out millions to pay them off...so the Force will definitely be axed rather than the Rebels.

And there's plenty of talk in SA of the Cheetahs and Kings joining the PRO 12

That's a done deal as far as we know. I'm not sure how it'll work mind but the South Africans will be an exciting addition. Do you think the SARU sees all their franchises playing up here in the long-term?

Mr Fishpaste wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

toml wrote:No way the Australians can get rid of the Force over the Rebels. Force are thrashing the Waratahs to get their 6th win of the season compared to the Rebels 1... It's a no brainer.

I think the Rebels will be merged into one of the other teams in order to retain their Aussie players. Losing the Force would see the ARU without a team in the Western half of the country. As you say the Force are the second best team in Australia and are supported financially by the local government in Perth (who have cash). Be mad to disband the Force.

I believe the Rebels are privately owned and the owners have a contractual agreement with the ARU meaning that if they were to be axed the ARU would have to fork out millions to pay them off...so the Force will definitely be axed rather than the Rebels.

The Force isn't lacking finanvial support as I said above.

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/07/15/11/35/force-waratahs-forrest

Had the Force fallen apart in the Super 15 it would have been the easy option but as they thumped the Waratahs at NIB at the weekend and are the only team in their half of the country it's not as simple as who owns them. As I it understand both teams have threatened legal action of they are cut.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Is the system changing again next season Pete? It seems that no matter what way it's broken down it's going to be flawed as the NZ teams are just so much better.

I read this morning that the Aussies have lost 59 Super Rugby players overseas in the last 19 months. That's painful. Condensing down to 4 teams may help a bit, but it's hard to see them coming back quickly

Surely only more money will hold players in Oz. difficult to see where that comes from tbh.

yappysnap wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Is the system changing again next season Pete? It seems that no matter what way it's broken down it's going to be flawed as the NZ teams are just so much better.

I read this morning that the Aussies have lost 59 Super Rugby players overseas in the last 19 months. That's painful. Condensing down to 4 teams may help a bit, but it's hard to see them coming back quickly

Surely only more money will hold players in Oz. difficult to see where that comes from tbh.

See my post above about a billionaire backing the Force going forward.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Is the system changing again next season Pete? It seems that no matter what way it's broken down it's going to be flawed as the NZ teams are just so much better.

I read this morning that the Aussies have lost 59 Super Rugby players overseas in the last 19 months. That's painful. Condensing down to 4 teams may help a bit, but it's hard to see them coming back quickly

Surely only more money will hold players in Oz. difficult to see where that comes from tbh.

See my post above about a billionaire backing the Force going forward.

Plus TV money being divided by 4 rather than 5 (theoretically) adds 20% to the per-player wage budget

Overall Quarter-final Draw

QF1: Lions vs Sharks (by losing to the Lions at the weekend the Sharks avoided a trip to NZ)

QF2: Brumbies vs Hurricanes

QF3: Crusaders vs Highlanders

QF4: Stormers vs Chiefs

Semi-finals: Winner QF1 plays QF2 & QF3 vs QF4. Home advantage to the team higher on the round robin ladder

Brumbies lead Hurricanes 13-5 after 17 mins in Canberra

Meanwhile the Highlanders were unable to get to Christchurch overnight due to storm conditions in the southern South Island - storm winds closed Dunedin airport, & State Highway 1 is closed by floodwaters between Dunedin & Oamaru, Oamrau & Timaru & Timaru & Dunsandel - that's normally 4 1/2 hours by coach, and the (much longer) alternate route likely also has issues

And the Chiefs are shy a reserve midfielder courtesy of South African border control
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/95001907/chiefs-to-offer-details-on-south-africa-travel-issue-for-squad-member-alex-nankivell

HT Brumbies lead 16-12.

Hurricanes prop Toomaga-Allen yellow carded at the end of the half for a no-arms high tackle - would have been red but Fardy fell into the tackle

'and it's 16/15 at the half here at the JOL stadium' Yerr mate!

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:HT Brumbies lead 16-12.

Hurricanes prop Toomaga-Allen yellow carded at the end of the half for a no-arms high tackle - would have been red but Fardy fell into the tackle

Was a still a tough call, though probably the right one.

I thought was a definite penalty try there are the end with the canes pulling down the maul again.

The Canes are very cynical giving away pens whenever the Brumbies attack in broken play.

Its a big crowd for Canberra though is pitiful compared to yesteryear.

It's 16/15 isn't it?

kingelderfield wrote:'and it's 16/15 at the half here at the JOL stadium' Yerr mate!

Oops.


Canes ahead 18-16 now though

Got to say the kiwi ref is giving the Canes the rub

kingelderfield wrote:Got to say the kiwi ref is giving the Canes the rub

I'm "watching" 2 different text commentary feeds. Canes' fans giving out about Jackson on one, Brumbies' fans on t'other

Try Perenara. 16-26 Canes, kick to come

Bit of Dane Coles running magic there. ABs missed him badly vs the Lions

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Try Perenara. 16-26 Canes, kick to come

Great Canes try. Class from Coles.

Jordie intercept, Goosen try. All over bar the shoulting at 35-16

I was wondering if there is a fear in AUS/NZ that with the 2 SA sides moving to the Pro 14, that the SA Union will use the threat of moving them all to Europe, to take a bigger slice of TV money?

Or will move them all, and would a NZ/AUS with JAP and ARG league be able to sustain Super rugby at its current level? (break into HongKong market etc)?

Kingshu wrote:I was wondering if there is a fear in AUS/NZ that with the 2 SA sides moving to the Pro 14, that the SA Union will use the threat of moving them all to Europe, to take a bigger slice of TV money?

Or will move them all, and would a NZ/AUS with JAP and ARG league be able to sustain Super rugby at its current level? (break into HongKong market etc)?

The Argies would probably have to go with SA - trans-Atlantic is a lot shorter than trans-Pacific.

There's some in Aus who'd love a trans-Tasman comp - and with the bad time zone games and big travel removed it could work, assuming they were able to drag back some Aussie crowds (and Japan would make an interesting addition there)

NZ really values the playing link with SA in terms of exposure to different styles of rugby.

Trans Tasman games stand at 26-0 to NZ for the season. Or 32-0 since the Waratahs beat the Chiefs in round 14 last year.

By comparison, NZ are 29-0 vs Wales since 1954

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Trans Tasman games stand at 26-0 to NZ for the season. Or 32-0 since the Waratahs beat the Chiefs in round 14 last year.

By comparison, NZ are 29-0 vs Wales since 1954

You've got to say Kiwi standards are not what they were. Do you know only a few weeks back I saw a bunch of knackered old lags go toe for toe with the best the AB's could muster.

No doubt the AB's are in transition, as for Ozy ru, well rip seems about right.

Is it just me or are others sensing RSA have turned a corner?

The 4 Nations will tell us more, however for now my antenna are saying they're the coming force.

kingelderfield wrote:Is it just me or are others sensing RSA have turned a corner?

The 4 Nations will tell us more, however for now my antenna are saying they're the coming force.

We live in hope...

Mr Fishpaste wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Is it just me or are others sensing RSA have turned a corner?

The 4 Nations will tell us more, however for now my antenna are saying they're the coming force.

We live in hope...

I expect SA to be better than last year. And almost certainly better than the Aussies

Record of teams flying from South Africa to New Zealand in the playoffs: 2-16 (includes two games where both teams did) - So the Chiefs are up against it

Record of teams flying from New Zealand to South Africa in the playoffs: 4-7 - Ditto the 'Canes

Most of those play off wins were against the Stormers, in fact I think all of them are

Biltong wrote:Most of those play off wins were against the Stormers, in fact I think all of them are

One of the "both teams travelling" ones was in 1998 - the Crusaders won in Durban in the final round, which meant both teams flying to Chch for the Semi-final the following week. I remember Ian McIntosh absolutely blowing his stack on the sideline in Durban in the 2nd half as the implications sunk in

Didn't 'canes give the Rebels a bit of a dicking recently? Surely it's them that's cut then.

* It was back in March. Somebody recently shared it so I thought it might have been more recent.

mikey_dragon wrote:Didn't 'canes give the Rebels a bit of a dicking recently? Surely it's them that's cut then.

* It was back in March. Somebody recently shared it so I thought it might have been more recent.

Rebels have a private owner with a participation agreement and some good lawyers ...



Personally I'd merge the Brumbies & Rebels. Canberra's a small, RL town - they drew under 10k to their quarter-final on the weekend. Bringing the name to Melbourne would add some prestige in the city there, and there's a much bigger potential support base. And you could take the odd game to Canberra.

First 2 SF teams are out

Crusaders: David Havili, Israel Dagg, Jack Goodhue, Ryan Crotty, Seta Tamanivalu, Richie Mo'unga, Bryn Hall, Kieran Read, Matt Todd, Jordan Taufua, Sam Whitelock (captain), Scott Barrett, Owen Franks, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody. Reserves: Ben Funnell, Wyatt Crockett, Michael Alaalatoa, Luke Romano, Pete Samu, Mitchell Drummond, Mitchell Hunt, George Bridge.
(unchanged from the QF)

Chiefs: Damian McKenzie, Tim Nanai-Williams, Anton Lienert-Brown, Charlie Ngatai, James Lowe, Aaron Cruden (co-c), Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Michael Leitch, Sam Cane (co-c), Liam Messam, Brodie Retallick, Mitchell Brown, Nepo Laulala, Nathan Harris, Kane Hames. Reserves: Liam Polwart, Aidan Ross, Atu Moli, Dominic Bird, Lachlan Boshier, Finlay Christie, Stephen Donald, Shaun Stevenson.



The Hurricanes have been warming up on the High Veldt - TJ Perenara landed a 69m kick at goal on the training field yesterday, while Beauden Barrett hit a hole-in-one on the golf course


And Dane Coles is expected to start for the 'Canes vs the Lions after getting 30 mins in the QF in his return from concussion

17 minutes to go, the Lions v Hurricanes match is a hell of a game.

Lions have just gone in front 32-29

39-29 to the Lions with 8 minutes to go.

A remarkable comeback if they can hold on.

Wait...another Lions try through an interception! That must be the match.

Lions win 44 -29. They were down 3-22 at one point.

Crusaders will now travel to South Africa for the final.

Beauden Barrett "took the referee out of the equation" by getting a yellow card when the score was 22-29. When he came back on 10 minutes later, it was 39-29.

The Hurricanes really faded badly in the second half. I don't think you can underestimate how hard the travelling and the altitude adjustment is for the players.

The Crusaders are going to have to face the same obstacles next weekend now.

Home advantage is huge next week..

Hope Lions take this Golden opportunity and win the whole thing.

Rugby Fan wrote:Beauden Barrett "took the referee out of the equation" by getting a yellow card when the score was 22-29. When he came back on 10 minutes later, it was 39-29.

Rugby Fan wrote:Beauden Barrett "took the referee out of the equation" by getting a yellow card when the score was 22-29. When he came back on 10 minutes later, it was 39-29.

Thought the Lions were superb. Smith is a great 7, it's nice to see a departure from the "bigger is always better" idea that seemed to dominate SA rugby in regards to the pack. Ackerman's done fine work with them.

The owner of the Force is now pushing for a merger between Rebels and Brumbies, like Pete has previously alluded to.

Hurricanes head coach after the game: "It is frustrating but we could have taken the referee out of the game."

Where have I heard a phrase like that before?

mikey_dragon wrote:The owner of the Force is now pushing for a merger between Rebels and Brumbies, like Pete has previously alluded to.

That looks to be the most likely outcome.

So there was another "Payne" moment. Where referee decide to judge the incident by its outcome rather than intent.

Basically won the game for the Crusaders. Shame that such a boring team had to lift the trophy though.

VinceWLB wrote:So there was another "Payne" moment. Where referee decide to judge the incident by its outcome rather than intent.

Basically won the game for the Crusaders. Shame that such a boring team had to lift the trophy though.

The two incidents barely compare. Smith came charging in and made no effort to catch the ball, for that matter he never even had his eyes on the ball. He then put his hands up to make contact with Havili after seeing him in the air but too late to react properly. Accidental and without malice but under current laws very much a red card.
Payne on the other hand kept his eyes on the ball at all times and was positioning himself with his arms out ready to catch the ball. That's why that was such a harsh decision.
The fact remains though, a player who takes to the air in those circumstances can make these incidents unavoidable and shouldn't necessarily be 100% the fault of the player on the ground in every case.

There's a tackle in the air incident and people are still crowing about Payne. The interpretation of the law isn't new. Pane got the red his actions warranted despite their being no malace as did Smith. There's no excuse "I was only watching the ball" you need to pay attention to your surroundings.

The Crusaders have looked very strong all season no real surprise to see them win. They seem much stronger with a new coach and younger faces in the squad, be interesting to see if they can hold on to this squad to defend their title.

Lets all ask players to jump into tackling and get free from being tackled.. Seriously the rule is rubbish. Felt sorry for Peiper, he didn't have any other choice than to show a red as he would have been seen as being biased otherwise. Seen a fair few NZ fans who would have been happy had it been yellow only.

By the way, that wasn't a tackle. Watching it again it was a bit crazy to chase the ball like that almost running at full tilt, but just an accident at the end of the day.

The unfortunate issue is when you find yourself in a compromising position where you can injure a player the responsibility is yours to avoid contact at all cost.

Intent is not measured in these collisions with players being in the air.

The law states you are responsible for the player in the air. It is what it is.

I too feel sorry for Kwagga Smith as he isnot a dirty player, he found himself in a position where he was responsible and whether he could get out of the way or not is not the issue.

Biltong wrote:The unfortunate issue is when you find yourself in a compromising position where you can injure a player the responsibility is yours to avoid contact at all cost.

Intent is not measured in these collisions with players being in the air.

The law states you are responsible for the player in the air. It is what it is.

I too feel sorry for Kwagga Smith as he isnot a dirty player, he found himself in a position where he was responsible and whether he could get out of the way or not is not the issue.

 Isnt that the very nub of these decisions, over the next year or two red cards are going to become very common yet at the same time we know they are not for instances of foul play, perhaps Rugby has to look for other alternatives to the Health and wellbeing of the players other than using foul play legislation and sanctions.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Biltong wrote:The unfortunate issue is when you find yourself in a compromising position where you can injure a player the responsibility is yours to avoid contact at all cost.

Intent is not measured in these collisions with players being in the air.

The law states you are responsible for the player in the air. It is what it is.

I too feel sorry for Kwagga Smith as he isnot a dirty player, he found himself in a position where he was responsible and whether he could get out of the way or not is not the issue.

 Isnt that the very nub of these decisions, over the next year or two red cards are going to become very common yet at the same time we know they are not for instances of foul play, perhaps Rugby has to look for other alternatives to the Health and wellbeing of the players other than using foul play legislation and sanctions.

Yes I agree, saw someone suggest 20 minutes for a red card, another suggestion was penalise the player not the team.

Alternatively they must find a way to seperate foul play incidents from "accidental" ones.

But how do you ascertain intent?