6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March

First topic message reminder :

  
IRELAND v ENGLAND
18 March 2017
KO: 17:00 GMT
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Touch judges: Mathieu Raynal (France) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

Live on [BBC, RTE, DMAX, FR2, ITV (H)]

A. Head to Head

131 Played 131
47 Won 76
8 Drawn 8
76 Lost 47
1,079 Points 1,526

B. Recent Form

27 February 2016
Twickenham, London
21 – 10 to England

5 September 2015
Twickenham, London
21 – 13 to England

1 March 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
19 – 9 to Ireland

22 February 2014
Twickenham, London
13 – 10 to England

10 February 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
6 – 12 to England

17 March 2012
Twickenham, London
30 – 9 to England

C. Teams

IRELAND

Payne; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Marmion; McGrath, Best (captain), Furlong; Ryan, Henderson; Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip,

Replacements: Scannell, Healy, Ryan, Toner, O'Mahony, McGrath, Jackson, Conway.

ENGLAND

Brown; Watson, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Youngs; Marler, Hartley (captain), Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Itoje, Haskell, B Vunipola.

Replacements: George, M Vunipola, Sinckler, Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o, Nowell.

My predictions:

30 - 0 to Ireland. Farrell to get sent off for punching Mike Brown in the face.

Cian Healy to come in a calm things down. Hartley accidentally bites himself and the resulting injury rules him out of the Lions tour.

Andy Farrell to celebrate/give the finger to the crowd at the final whistle.

Weeks later George Ford is revealed to be a spy for the Ireland team.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:It was nice being able to understand what was being said.  

Said the baaaarf supporter. Found your combine 'arvester yet

I'm not from Glawster.

TightHEAD wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:It was nice being able to understand what was being said.  

Said the baaaarf supporter. Found your combine 'arvester yet

I'm not from Glawster.

Couldn't give a flying mate. You all sound the same to me

My opinion will be we will use Henshaw to keep the English backrow looking after ford and Jared will be joining the line to cause some damage.
Although we need to get the ball first, and not kick it straight down Watson or Daly's throat. And take big billy around the ankles behind the gain line. And stop itojie from stealing and disrupting rucks. And mark jj out of the game, and not give Farrell and kicks, and not let Young's dictate the pace. And stop the English second rows from dominating the lineout. And brown.....Well actually not bothered about him.
So simply stop 14 of the starting 15 England players getting I to a rhythm and we will win it.
Easy as pish




Watch brown score a hat trick now

I believe it's been pointed out Mike Brown has beaten more defenders than any other FB this 6N. I know it's not a popular opinion, but he is actually pretty good!

cascough wrote:I believe it's been pointed out Mike Brown has beaten more defenders than any other FB this 6N. I know it's not a popular opinion, but he is actually pretty good!

Oh he is. No doubt about that. You can't ignore him.

Gained more metres than any other player too.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:It was nice being able to understand what was being said.  

Said the baaaarf supporter. Found your combine 'arvester yet

I'm not from Glawster.

Couldn't give a flying mate. You all sound the same to me

Still biting!

TightHEAD wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:It was nice being able to understand what was being said.  

Said the baaaarf supporter. Found your combine 'arvester yet

I'm not from Glawster.

Couldn't give a flying mate. You all sound the same to me

Still biting!

Sorry couldn't understand the accent can you repeat please

Banter on this thread is electric.

Hope Eddie says something controversial soon to move the conversation on.

cascough wrote:I believe it's been pointed out Mike Brown has beaten more defenders than any other FB this 6N. I know it's not a popular opinion, but he is actually pretty good!

Well its not actually true either. Brown has beaten 11 defenders Kearney 12 for example.

Eddie says Ireland are favorites. lol.

TightHEAD wrote:Eddie says Ireland are favorites. lol.

Well, he's right again. Most folks around the world will want us to win to consign another batch of England Grand Slam shirts to the darkest recesses of the wardrobes.

Conor Murray out injured

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Conor Murray out injured

Fell off his horse when he turned up for training.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

cascough wrote:I believe it's been pointed out Mike Brown has beaten more defenders than any other FB this 6N. I know it's not a popular opinion, but he is actually pretty good!

Well its not actually true either. Brown has beaten 11 defenders Kearney 12 for example.

I must admit, I don't rate either. Both sides need better really, the Irish is pretty average these days for such a good side.

I can't remember Brown making one clean break so far, he used to do it every game countless times.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

cascough wrote:I believe it's been pointed out Mike Brown has beaten more defenders than any other FB this 6N. I know it's not a popular opinion, but he is actually pretty good!

Well its not actually true either. Brown has beaten 11 defenders Kearney 12 for example.

I must admit, I don't rate either. Both sides need better really, the Irish is pretty average these days for such a good side.

well Jerid Pine is playing at 15 for Ireland on Sat.

cascough wrote:I believe it's been pointed out Mike Brown has beaten more defenders than any other FB this 6N. I know it's not a popular opinion, but he is actually pretty good!

With the amount of ball, Brown has had you'd hope so too!

18 runs vs Scotland.....

How many clean breaks has Brown made?

Joint top in defenders beaten for England with Hughes - not surprising when Hughes also carries the ball a lot too.

Hughes has the most carries with 62. Brown can't be far behind.

beshocked wrote:

cascough wrote:I believe it's been pointed out Mike Brown has beaten more defenders than any other FB this 6N. I know it's not a popular opinion, but he is actually pretty good!

With the amount of ball, Brown has had you'd hope so too!

18 runs vs Scotland.....

How many clean breaks has Brown made?

Joint top in defenders beaten for England with Hughes - not surprising when Hughes also carries the ball a lot too.

Hughes has the most carries with 62. Brown can't be far behind.

Against Scotland he beat 2 defenders. He beat three in all other games.

beshocked wrote:JP Doyle is one of the worst refs.

Barnes is quality.

Shouldn't use him as a scapegoat for your toothless attack vs Wales.

The so called controversial decisions weren't really controversial - Sexton was preventing quick ball on his line. Henshaw deserved to be penalised.

You think Barnes is quality because he never refs England. Ireland gave away something like 4 penalties to Wales and yet gets yellow carded while wales gave away about 12 penalties.

By the way I'm not saying brown isn't good, he is. But with the options you have your back 3 could be a lot more dangerous

Sin é wrote:

beshocked wrote:JP Doyle is one of the worst refs.

Barnes is quality.

Shouldn't use him as a scapegoat for your toothless attack vs Wales.

The so called controversial decisions weren't really controversial - Sexton was preventing quick ball on his line. Henshaw deserved to be penalised.

You think Barnes is quality because he never refs England. Ireland gave away something like 4 penalties to Wales and yet gets yellow carded while wales gave away about 12 penalties.

There's this thing in rugby where cynical infringements near the try line are more likely to get yellow cards.

You'd think Ireland fans would try to get away from this pathetic whingy reputation they are getting.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

cascough wrote:I believe it's been pointed out Mike Brown has beaten more defenders than any other FB this 6N. I know it's not a popular opinion, but he is actually pretty good!

Well its not actually true either. Brown has beaten 11 defenders Kearney 12 for example.

He meant going forwards

Scottrf wrote:

Sin é wrote:

beshocked wrote:JP Doyle is one of the worst refs.

Barnes is quality.

Shouldn't use him as a scapegoat for your toothless attack vs Wales.

The so called controversial decisions weren't really controversial - Sexton was preventing quick ball on his line. Henshaw deserved to be penalised.

You think Barnes is quality because he never refs England. Ireland gave away something like 4 penalties to Wales and yet gets yellow carded while wales gave away about 12 penalties.

There's this thing in rugby where cynical infringements near the try line are more likely to get yellow cards.

You'd think Ireland fans would try to get away from this pathetic whingy reputation they are getting.

You mean like the 3 cynical infringements Wales had prior to the yellow? Or like the numerous warnings Wales had for holding Irish players in the ruck trying to get penalties just like Davies did with the yellow?

Like those you mean?

It could be a cracker in all honesty...as long as both teams go for it and don't cancel each other down into a game of chess....

marty2086 wrote:You mean like the 3 cynical infringements Wales had prior to the yellow? Or like the numerous warnings Wales had for holding Irish players in the ruck trying to get penalties just like Davies did with the yellow?

Like those you mean?

In the other 70 minutes of the game you also scored 0 tries.

Scottrf wrote:

Sin é wrote:

beshocked wrote:JP Doyle is one of the worst refs.

Barnes is quality.

Shouldn't use him as a scapegoat for your toothless attack vs Wales.

The so called controversial decisions weren't really controversial - Sexton was preventing quick ball on his line. Henshaw deserved to be penalised.

You think Barnes is quality because he never refs England. Ireland gave away something like 4 penalties to Wales and yet gets yellow carded while wales gave away about 12 penalties.

There's this thing in rugby where cynical infringements near the try line are more likely to get yellow cards.

You'd think Ireland fans would try to get away from this pathetic whingy reputation they are getting.

You mean like when George North should have got a yellow card, if not a penalty try for lying on the ball near the Welsh tryline instead of just giving away a penalty?

Sin é wrote:You mean like when George North should have got a yellow card, if not a penalty try for lying on the ball near the Welsh tryline instead of just giving away a penalty?

Might be interested in looking into incidents if the complaining about the referee didn't begin before the game. It's confirmation bias and I'm sure there were issues on both sides, that's what happens in a game of rugby. If you have a problem with a referee you can provide evidence he was biased against you. Barnes had a good game.

Its always the same story with Barnes you can justify the penalties or the cards he gave against Ireland he however, often doesnt hold the other team to the same standards. He is desperately inconsistent to such an extent he has been accused by a world cup winning coach of match fixing.

how anyone thinks it isnt completely dodgy that he refs Ireland v Wales games every year including on two occasions when the appointed ref has dropped out at the last minute is beyond me.

Scottrf wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You mean like the 3 cynical infringements Wales had prior to the yellow? Or like the numerous warnings Wales had for holding Irish players in the ruck trying to get penalties just like Davies did with the yellow?

Like those you mean?

In the other 70 minutes of the game you also scored 0 tries.

Whats that got to do with it?

Scottrf wrote:

Sin é wrote:You mean like when George North should have got a yellow card, if not a penalty try for lying on the ball near the Welsh tryline instead of just giving away a penalty?

Might be interested in looking into incidents if the complaining about the referee didn't begin before the game. It's confirmation bias and I'm sure there were issues on both sides, that's what happens in a game of rugby. If you have a problem with a referee you can provide evidence he was biased against you. Barnes had a good game.

You havent a clue Scott. I doubt you have seen all Ireland v Wales games that Barnes has reffed.

There is catalogue of evidence over the years and they have been summarised many times on this forum.

Can we stay on topic?

Wayne Barnes isn't refereeing this game.

Alright, Barnes beat Ireland. You're the rightful winners. Luckily he's not refereeing this game. No excuses?

Yea, just seen Kearney is injured. No huge loss really, Payne is arguably a better option.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Yea, just seen Kearney is injured. No huge loss really, Payne is arguably a better option.

Errr arguably? Try a country frickin mile better

Scottrf wrote:Alright, Barnes beat Ireland. You're the rightful winners. Luckily he's not refereeing this game. No excuses?

Not saying that, I think Wales were very good and on this occasion probably good enough to beat Ireland anyway. Its a shame it has to be reffed each year by such an incompetent buffoon.

Sin é wrote:

beshocked wrote:JP Doyle is one of the worst refs.

Barnes is quality.

Shouldn't use him as a scapegoat for your toothless attack vs Wales.

The so called controversial decisions weren't really controversial - Sexton was preventing quick ball on his line. Henshaw deserved to be penalised.

You think Barnes is quality because he never refs England. Ireland gave away something like 4 penalties to Wales and yet gets yellow carded while wales gave away about 12 penalties.

Doesn't seem like he was particularly biased towards Wales if he penalised them 3 times more.

Let's be honest you'd find a reason to complain about Barnes.

I’d admit that the Henshaw call was a tough one but was technically correct. Sure Ireland perhaps don’t get Barnes doing them many favours but then again he’s not as bad as you think.

I've seen refs put in much more one sided performances than Barnes.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Henderson starts too.

As an England fan my first thought when I read this was good, hopefully that means they have dropped the (in my opinion underrated) Ryan. Was disappointed to read on and find it was Toner who had dropped to the bench. Still think your backrow would be more balanced with POM starting and SOB coming off the bench against tired legs but I guess JS wants his big carriers running at Ford from the off. Plus it's not like England have the pure breakdown specialists that Wales do. Although POM may have helped the Irish lineout as well.

Looking forward to the game but very nervous.

beshocked wrote:

Sin é wrote:

beshocked wrote:JP Doyle is one of the worst refs.

Barnes is quality.

Shouldn't use him as a scapegoat for your toothless attack vs Wales.

The so called controversial decisions weren't really controversial - Sexton was preventing quick ball on his line. Henshaw deserved to be penalised.

You think Barnes is quality because he never refs England. Ireland gave away something like 4 penalties to Wales and yet gets yellow carded while wales gave away about 12 penalties.

Doesn't seem like he was particularly biased towards Wales if he penalised them 3 times more.

Let's be honest you'd find a reason to complain about Barnes.

I’d admit that the Henshaw call was a tough one but was technically correct. Sure Ireland perhaps don’t get Barnes doing them many favours but then again he’s not as bad as you think.

I've seen refs put in much more one sided performances than Barnes.

No he definitely is. Do some research online no current referee has attracted as much controversy nor criticism as Barnes.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:No he definitely is. Do some research online no current referee has attracted as much controversy nor criticism as Barnes.

Want research? We should use facts, not opinion as confirmation bias shows that if you have an opinion you wont change it in the face of evidence.

He's refereed 10 Six Nations games for Ireland.

Ireland have conceded more penalties than their opponents on 2 of the 10 occasions.

Ireland have conceded 106 penalties, their opponents 126.

Ireland have received 7 yellow cards, their opponents 9.

Any which way you look at it, Ireland are in for a kicking.  

England have won their Championship so they can concentrate on the kicking.
England are good enough to give us a heck of a kicking.
If we get a kicking from England then Ireland fans will give the Irish team (coaches and players) a monumental kicking for an overall 6Ns performance not remotely good enough.

England are good enough to give us a heck of a kicking.
Therefore if we win, we'll have to have had a helluva game.
If we have a helluva game and give England a kicking, Ireland fans will give the Irish team (coaches and players) a monumental kicking and demand explanations for why these performances are still never consistent/predictable.

Ireland in for a kicking, win or lose.
Looking forward to it actually. We need a kicking.

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:No he definitely is. Do some research online no current referee has attracted as much controversy nor criticism as Barnes.

Want research? We should use facts, not opinion as confirmation bias shows that if you have an opinion you wont change it in the face of evidence.

He's refereed 10 Six Nations games for Ireland.

Ireland have conceded more penalties than their opponents on 2 of the 10 occasions.

Ireland have conceded 106 penalties, their opponents 126.

Ireland have received 7 yellow cards, their opponents 9.

Thus the mystery?

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:No he definitely is. Do some research online no current referee has attracted as much controversy nor criticism as Barnes.

Want research? We should use facts, not opinion as confirmation bias shows that if you have an opinion you wont change it in the face of evidence.

He's refereed 10 Six Nations games for Ireland.

Ireland have conceded more penalties than their opponents on 2 of the 10 occasions.

Ireland have conceded 106 penalties, their opponents 126.

Ireland have received 7 yellow cards, their opponents 9.

Thus the mystery?

Ireland have also conceded above their average haul of penalties when he refs and have won way below their average win loss ratio.

Also how many of those games were against Wales?

And I thought the bad result n the World Cup and this and last years six nations results were down to Joe and his tactics. It's now clear it was Wayne... I bet he disguised himself as Garces and Owens and secretly refereed some games. Good accent as well

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:No he definitely is. Do some research online no current referee has attracted as much controversy nor criticism as Barnes.

Want research? We should use facts, not opinion as confirmation bias shows that if you have an opinion you wont change it in the face of evidence.

He's refereed 10 Six Nations games for Ireland.

Ireland have conceded more penalties than their opponents on 2 of the 10 occasions.

Ireland have conceded 106 penalties, their opponents 126.

Ireland have received 7 yellow cards, their opponents 9.

Thus the mystery?

Ireland have also conceded above their average haul of penalties when he refs and have won way below their average win loss ratio.

Also how many of those games were against Wales?

But even if that's the case, neither of those two things imply bias when set against the statistics provided to you.

B91212 wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Henderson starts too.

As an England fan my first thought when I read this was good, hopefully that means they have dropped the (in my opinion underrated) Ryan. Was disappointed to read on and find it was Toner who had dropped to the bench. Still think your backrow would be more balanced with POM starting and SOB coming off the bench against tired legs but I guess JS wants his big carriers running at Ford from the off. Plus it's not like England have the pure breakdown specialists that Wales do. Although POM may have helped the Irish lineout as well.

Looking forward to the game but very nervous.

I'm happy Toner has been dropped to the bench. Best took a lot of flak for the lineout malfunction against Wales, but I do think Toner was the issue. Hopefully we see a marked improvement, although I would have liked POM to start to help in that regard.

Delighted Payne is at 15. Much better than Kearney.

Losing Murray is a bit of a blow, but I don't think Marmion will let us down. I don't think Sexton deserves a start after his poor performance last week, but he would be a risk coming off the bench, so fair enough. Hoping he will have one of his good games, and not come off injured after 10 minutes, if he is on form.

cascough wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:No he definitely is. Do some research online no current referee has attracted as much controversy nor criticism as Barnes.

Want research? We should use facts, not opinion as confirmation bias shows that if you have an opinion you wont change it in the face of evidence.

He's refereed 10 Six Nations games for Ireland.

Ireland have conceded more penalties than their opponents on 2 of the 10 occasions.

Ireland have conceded 106 penalties, their opponents 126.

Ireland have received 7 yellow cards, their opponents 9.

Thus the mystery?

Ireland have also conceded above their average haul of penalties when he refs and have won way below their average win loss ratio.

Also how many of those games were against Wales?

But even if that's the case, neither of those two things imply bias when set against the statistics provided to you.

Yes they do.

Can you explain why a guy who went to school in wales and grew up 10 miles from Wales has reffed the majority of Ireland v Wales games in the last 10 years?

Oh no they dont

Pantomime season is starting early...

Munchkin wrote:

B91212 wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Henderson starts too.

As an England fan my first thought when I read this was good, hopefully that means they have dropped the (in my opinion underrated) Ryan. Was disappointed to read on and find it was Toner who had dropped to the bench. Still think your backrow would be more balanced with POM starting and SOB coming off the bench against tired legs but I guess JS wants his big carriers running at Ford from the off. Plus it's not like England have the pure breakdown specialists that Wales do. Although POM may have helped the Irish lineout as well.

Looking forward to the game but very nervous.

I'm happy Toner has been dropped to the bench. Best took a lot of flak for the lineout malfunction against Wales, but I do think Toner was the issue. Hopefully we see a marked improvement, although I would have liked POM to start to help in that regard.

Delighted Payne is at 15. Much better than Kearney.

Losing Murray is a bit of a blow, but I don't think Marmion will let us down. I don't think Sexton deserves a start after his poor performance last week, but he would be a risk coming off the bench, so fair enough. Hoping he will have one of his good games, and not come off injured after 10 minutes, if he is on form.

Especially as Jackson will be the fall guy if they lose