F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway

[dyrewolfe]

Well that was quite an interesting race. The most overtaking I've seen so far this season...probably the best bit of driving was the back-of-the-pack tussle between Alonso, Palmer and some other guy whose name escapes me.

Seems that while Mercedes are still top for outright pace, Ferrari are good enough in race trim to stick with them. When they get their pit strategy right, they can get the jump on Mercedes and comfortably maintain a lead.

Obviously Vettel was helped by Merc contriving to mess up their pit stops, one way or another, but even without that, he'd still have had a narrow lead, which may have been all he needed (given the Mercedes doesn't work well in dirty air).

Lewis is demanding Merc step up their efforts and wring some extra speed out of the car, but I think they'd be better off looking at the chassis / set-up and aero. the car appears optimised for running in clear air and they need to realise they won't be doing this all the time.

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On evidence the Ferrari is better in race trim when Vettels at the helm.

Faster and better on its tyres.

So far you have to draw the conclusion that Bottas cannot win this championship. Hamilton might be able to, but only if Mercedes prioritise him. You can be sure Ferrari aren't going to hesitate to pull Raikonnen out of Vettels way if he ever finds himself in that position.

Totos in a difficult spot. He s Bottas' manager and most likely the guy who pushed hard to put him in that seat. There's also likely some buried bad feelings between him and Lewis after the way last season ended. But Bottas looks like a number 2, in a close title fight you have to back your number 1. Especially given the fine margins seen this season.

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Also not good for Toto is how fragile Mercedes look now they have a real contender. Ferrari now look the professional composed outfit.

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The next 5 races (Russia, Spain, Monaco, Canada, Baku) are all likely to be tough on the rear tyres. So if Merc have a problem, they need to sort it sharpish

[Guest]

It's a first stint issue, for Mercedes. Somehow, they need to limit the damage in that stint, and wait until the second phase of the race kicks in, when their package comes to life, on lowering fuel levels. Hence, the pattern of Saturdays. Prioritising Hamilton is an absolute must from now on, they can't afford for Valtteri to hinder Lewis. Toto has already admitted it. ''It is not what we have done the past couple of years. But the situation is different now''.

I don't think the advantage is huge for Ferrari, even in those first stints. Vettel has been unable to actually overtake a Mercedes, it's been strategy that has leapfrogged him ahead of his rivals, in Aus & Bahrain, something Mercedes need to sharpen up on, for sure.

Barcelona is front-left limited, similar to Shanghai & you can't really over-take, so Mercedes should still fancy themselves. Monaco is all about qualifying, so again Mercedes will fancy themselves. Canada will destroy the rears & Baku will suit the Ferrari, so you can see that it will vary from race to race.

[dyrewolfe]

All in all it has the makings of a very interesting season, where the circuits and climate could play almost as much of a role as the cars and drivers.

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The Ferrari tyre wear is giving them much more flexibility on strategy though. At Aus they could effect the overcut where Merc were forced to pit before they had a gap. Here they could put earlier and affect the undercut on a painfully slow Bottas. In China they probably made the right call and got unlucky with events after it. Here they probably made the right call and got unlucky again, without a safety car Vettels probably off into the distance before the 2nd round of stops.

[Jermaine2015]

If Kimi's performances don't improve I wouldn't be surprised to see him pensioned off at the summer break.

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Replaced with who? Id try for Sainz in the winter rather than sticking in a rookie with no prep.

Seems the Merc has a much better "qualifying" engine setting than Ferrari which probably accounts for the large gap on a power track like Bahrain.

[Jermaine2015]

Replaced with who? Id try for Sainz in the winter rather than sticking in a rookie with no prep.

Seems the Merc has a much better "qualifying" engine setting than Ferrari which probably accounts for the large gap on a power track like Bahrain.

Romain Grosjean, drives for the Ferrari junior team Haas, has genuine pace.

Sainz will replace Ricciardo in 2018.

[Guest]

It's pretty obvious that Sainz will replace Ricciardo in 2018. That will enable Ricciardo to replace Kimi in 2018.

Over the course of the season Kimi will beat Bottas of that there's no doubt

Still sure about that? I don't think you seem too convinced on Kimi anymore

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Is Grosjean likely to be any better chucked in midseason and only for a 6 month stint. (And probably quite expensive)

[Jermaine2015]

Is Grosjean likely to be any better chucked in midseason and only for a 6 month stint. (And probably quite expensive)

Haas basically gets a lot of parts from Ferrari really cheap or free. Therefore it Ferrari wanted Grosjean, I'm pretty sure a savvy business man like Gene Haas will know what's best for business

[Jermaine2015]

It's pretty obvious that Sainz will replace Ricciardo in 2018. That will enable Ricciardo to replace Kimi in 2018.

Over the course of the season Kimi will beat Bottas of that there's no doubt

Still sure about that? I don't think you seem too convinced on Kimi anymore

Kimi looks totally lost. Despite Bottas not being much more than average, Kimi is hopeless thus far.

No chance Ferrari rocks the boat and sign Ricciardo. There's no love loss between Sebastian and the Australian

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Is Grosjean likely to be any better chucked in midseason and only for a 6 month stint. (And probably quite expensive)

Haas basically gets a lot of parts from Ferrari really cheap or free. Therefore it Ferrari wanted Grosjean, I'm pretty sure a savvy business man like Gene Haas will know what's best for business

Yeah but it's still costing Ferrari to get a driver in for half a season who's unfamiliar with the car and therefore unlikely to be a short term upgrade. Plus I'm sure Haas would demand Ferrari cover the cost of his replacement.

[Jermaine2015]

Is Grosjean likely to be any better chucked in midseason and only for a 6 month stint. (And probably quite expensive)

Haas basically gets a lot of parts from Ferrari really cheap or free. Therefore it Ferrari wanted Grosjean, I'm pretty sure a savvy business man like Gene Haas will know what's best for business

Yeah but it's still costing Ferrari to get a driver in for half a season who's unfamiliar with the car and therefore unlikely to be a short term upgrade. Plus I'm sure Haas would demand Ferrari cover the cost of his replacement.

Giovinazzi is scheduled to do FP1 sessions for Haas later in the season. That's the replacement sorted

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This should be a comfortable Merc 1-2. Power track, tyre wear is pretty much nil, not likely to be super hot. But then Bahrain should've really been a Merc strength bar the temps. Time for Bottas to earn his salary on Sundays.

[Jermaine2015]

The red cars looking very fast in Sochi

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Suspect Ferrari have turned the wick up some to spook Merc

[Guest]

This should be a comfortable Merc 1-2

Anything but

Sochi is point & squirt, suits the nimble characteristics of the Ferrari & the shorter wheel base. The Mercedes prefers longer, high speed corners, whereas Sochi is just 90 degree corner, after 90 degree corner.

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Merc also prefers power tracks which are cooler and has minimal tyre wear. That's Sochi. Much like their advantage in Bahrain which is similar bar the temps.

[Jermaine2015]

Palmer is so crap he's actually worst than Maldonado

[Guest]

Vettel pole
Kimi 2nd
Bottas 3rd

Hamilton's setup is a mess. Ferrari will walk this.

[Jermaine2015]

The Saturday finger is back

[dyrewolfe]

Well that was a statement of intent by Ferrari.

You could put their race wins down to superior strategy, but for the first time in donkey's years, they've flat-out beaten Mercedes for outright pace. Also first front row lockout since 2008.

I guess only time will tell if it is down to the specific nature of the Sochi track. Bottas was right on their coat-tails, but it was quite shocking to see Hamilton over half a second down. Then again, his head didn't seem quite right and he was having one of his sub-par quali sessions.

Whatever, Mercedes face an almighty battle this season, if they are to retain their titles. Even if Ferrari don't always have the ultimate pace, they've shown they can still take the fight to the Silver Arrows.

Interesting fact I didn't know before: apparently the Mercs have a considerably longer wheelbase (+20cm) than the Ferrari, which I guess makes them more stable on high speed straights, but harder to steer through corners.

Good to see Hulk and Massa doing well.


I predict a 1-2 for Ferrari tomorrow as well, assuming a clean start and no mechanical issues. Mercs tend to struggle when following and Ferrari seem to have the upper hand on strategy too, so it'll take something pretty special for positions to be reversed.

[Guest]

Simply put, the Ferrari is just the better package & as the pundits discussed, the Ferrari PU is pretty much on par now with Mercedes. Win tomorrow & it's basically Ferrari landing a knockout blow to Mercedes in their own back yard, on a supposed Mercedes track.

Be amazed if Vettel didn't win the title this season, in all honesty. The sport needed a change & they got it. Finger is on his way to no.5.

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They flat out beat Merc on pace at Melbourne.

That's a real scare for Merc. They should be strong here. Kimi to be deployed as a blocker and Vettel well clear of they nail the start

[Jermaine2015]

Bottas goes well in Sochi so I wouldn't put it passed him winning

[dyrewolfe]

Simply put, the Ferrari is just the better package & as the pundits discussed, the Ferrari PU is pretty much on par now with Mercedes. Win tomorrow & it's basically Ferrari landing a knockout  blow to Mercedes in their own back yard, on a supposed Mercedes track.

Be amazed if Vettel didn't win the title this season, in all honesty. The sport needed a change & they got it. Finger is on his way to no.5.

Bit early to be making those sort of predictions, isn't it? How about we wait and see if Ferrari can maintain this kind of performance...or if Merc can come up with some new developments to regain the advantage?

If the picture still looks the same by the time we get to Silverstone, I would probably agree though.

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Eh. You can improve performance through engine and aero updates, but it's very hard to alter a fundamental problem like poor rear tyre wear midseason

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Fernando already out before the start

[Guest]

Perfect that Bottas leads, should give us some excitement

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Safety Car out

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Grosjean and Palmer wipe each other out

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Bottas the big winner, but surprised Hamilton didn't get Kimi who had a bad start

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Seb did Kimi a favor, gave him the slipstream, then ducked back onto the racing line for the braking zone which looked like it unsettled Lewis who was pretty cautious on the brakes

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Issue for Lewis will be closing up to Kimi enough in the middle sector to get close enough in the DRS zone

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Ricciardo has a brake problem and slowing up.

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Front 4 all opening up gaps to each other atm. Might be running in formation here

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Merc have the better race pace at this stage, but Lewis in a catch 22, closing up to Kimi is causing him to overheat the engine but stuck in 4th overwise.

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Now hes dropped a second in a lap. Wonder if Merc would consider an undercut here

[Guest]

Dull race

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Really the only hope here is Vettel applying some pressure towards the pit stops.

Otherwise this may be it. The middle sector is terrible in dirty air and its preventing anyone being close enough to get a run with DRS.

Vettel goes fastest. One last punt maybe.

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Vettel beginning to close down Bottas massively. Merc could do with pitting now

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Bottas in, Vettel goes for an overcut.

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Btw, more than half the race on what is supposed to be a quali tyre

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Kimi thought Lewis was leading

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Kimi is massively faster than Bottas on the Super Softs.

[Guest]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Bottas bottle this. If he does, you can pretty much give Vettel the title. Hamilton paying the price for a shambles of a fri/sat.

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Gave him a free second in that last sector with a lockup.

Bottas is going to have to live with a 4 time World Champion applying the blowtorch if he wants this first race win

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