F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

by Fernando Thu 23 Mar 2017, 11:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway Laugh

by Guest Wed 02 Aug 2017, 6:43 pm

Great to see him back, but it's absolutely pointless comparing this different situation and these test times, to that of last weekend's actual running. To put it into perspective, Lando Norris (17), produced a lap time quicker than Alonso's best qualifying time, or something along those lines. Track conditions after a full race weekend, will favour the drivers this week.

I'm all for the fairytale of Kubica returning to F1, but to return in Belgium, seems rushed & and unnecessary approach. Give him four of five FP1's going forward, and if he continues to impress, sign him for 2018. Throwing him into the deep end at Belgium could easily backfire.

by dyrewolfe Thu 03 Aug 2017, 1:46 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote: ... Best part of the race for me was Alonso's 6th place and bagging fastest lap...how the hell did he do that? Guess it proves there's not much wrong with McLaren's chassis and aero package. If only they had an engine to match...
Vettel must have been real slow - slowing down both Raikkonen & Hamilton. But then Alonso still had a faster lap than Bottas & Verstappen. As soon as McLaren get a good engine they should be be back competing very strongly.

Was it incompetence on McLaren's part in getting to this situation? Mercedes used to be their engine supplier but not sure what happened when Mercedes decided to run their own car - they at some point stopped supplying McLaren with their top specification engines.

Mercedes saw an opportunity to go it alone when Ross Brawn accepted an offer to buy out his team. They were getting his expertise plus a car that had just won the championship with their engines. The idea was to create a wholly German team, with Schumacher and Rosberg driving for them. Instead of just being McLaren's main partner / sponsor, it would be all about Mercedes and resurrecting the Silver Arrows.

Of course that all changed after Schumi's accident.

Don't think it was incompetence on McLaren's part. I highly doubt Merc would supply potential rivals with an equal spec engine...and you can't blame McLaren (the previous works team) for not wanting to accept a 2nd best unit. They'd previously had great success with Honda and it seemed a logical move at the time.

Remember Red Bull had similar problems when they wanted to split from Renault. Neither Mercedes or Ferrari were prepared to give them works spec engines.

This is why I can't understand McLaren not building their own engines in-house. They have the resources and engineering expertise (some of their performance road cars have hybrid systems). It would just be a case of learning to build them to different specifications.

Just John wrote:
Great to see him back, but it's absolutely pointless comparing this different situation and these test times, to that of last weekend's actual running. To put it into perspective, Lando Norris (17), produced a lap time quicker than Alonso's best qualifying time, or something along those lines. Track conditions after a full race weekend, will favour the drivers this week.

I'm all for the fairytale of Kubica returning to F1, but to return in Belgium, seems rushed & and unnecessary approach. Give him four of five FP1's going forward, and if he continues to impress, sign him for 2018. Throwing him into the deep end at Belgium could easily backfire.

Agree. I think this season is too soon for Kubica. Make sure his body can endure a few practice sessions without breaking down and give some serious consideration over the winter about giving him a race seat next season.

by GSC Thu 03 Aug 2017, 2:09 pm

McLaren don't have that much cash.

Honda are paying for Alonso and paying for McLaren to use their engines. Paying for customer engines would be a sizable dent, trying to spec and build their own would be a mammoth cost.

by dyrewolfe Thu 03 Aug 2017, 11:11 pm

GSC wrote:McLaren don't have that much cash.

Honda are paying for Alonso and paying for McLaren to use their engines. Paying for customer engines would be a sizable dent, trying to spec and build their own would be a mammoth cost.

Dude, their majority shareholder is Mumtalakat - the Bahraini investment bank (Google Mansour Ojjeh). Essentially they have bottomless pockets.

For what it would cost to develop their own engines in-house, I doubt they would lose much sleep over it. As I said, McLaren already build hybrid powertrains for their road cars. It wouldn't be such a mammoth leap to build F1 spec units.

Expensive yes, but not unfeasibly so (as it would be for a team without an automotive business).

And if it meant getting McLaren back to the front of the grid, the amount of sponsorship they could pull in would help ease the financial hit.

by GSC Fri 04 Aug 2017, 7:29 am

Investors having money and being willing to use it are 2 entirely different things.

And the reality is, who says McLaren would do better than Honda. They're starting even further behind.

by Guest Tue 22 Aug 2017, 12:08 pm

Kimi Raikkonen stays for 2018 at Ferrari. Not surprised, given the reports that Vettel has demanded he is retained. Would rather of seen a fresh face at Ferrari.

Stoffel Vandoorne will stay with McLaren for a second season in Formula 1 in 2018

by Nathaniel Jacobs Wed 23 Aug 2017, 3:07 pm

McLaren suggesting Stoffel has been retained on a multiple year deal

by Guest Sat 26 Aug 2017, 2:01 pm

Hamilton achieves his 68th pole, and equals Michael Schumacher's pole position record clap

Vettel in second & Bottas in third

by dyrewolfe Sat 26 Aug 2017, 2:53 pm

Congrats Hamilton on equalling Schumacher's pole position record.

Vettel looking ominously quick, just a couple of tenths off Lewis' time.

Should be a good scrap between Bottas, Raikkonen and the Red Bulls for 3rd.

Biggest surprise was how racy Palmer looked...Sod's Law that he was bugged by car issues yet again.

Just John wrote:
Kimi Raikkonen stays for 2018 at Ferrari. Not surprised, given the reports that Vettel has demanded he is retained. Would rather of seen a fresh face at Ferrari.

Stoffel Vandoorne will stay with McLaren for a second season in Formula 1 in 2018

Well Kimi is pretty much perfect for Vettel and Ferrari...a fast #2 driver who will do as he's told...albeit with a lot of moaning. Wink

Vandoorne has shown he's got pace. Just needs to improve his consistency. Never been too far away from Alonso and has even out-qualified him a couple of times.

by Guest Sun 27 Aug 2017, 2:09 pm

Embarrassing stuff from FI again. SC played right into Vettel's hands, but Hamilton holds him off

by GSC Sun 27 Aug 2017, 2:38 pm

Not sure Ferrari will be too upset. Most would have expected a larger gap for Merc here. Will see if that carries onto Monza.

by dyrewolfe Sun 27 Aug 2017, 2:48 pm

Masterful driving by Hamilton on the re-start, to keep Vettel on Ultras, behind him, while Merc decided to go with Softs. Congrats on a 5th win of the season.

One of sadly few highlights. Largely forgettable race, with the only other moment of excitement being when the Force Indias tangled. Perez being an idiot again and squeezing Ocon instead of giving him racing room. Justice prevailed this time, but the team bosses really need to get a grip on this.

Had hoped for better for McLaren, but the car was an absolute sitting duck in race trim. Hard to argue with Alonso that the Honda engine is embarrassing. May as well treat the rest of the season as a test unless some major breakthroughs are made.

Another 3rd for Mr Honey Badger. Good results for Hulk, Grosjean & Massa.

by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon 28 Aug 2017, 3:54 pm

Just John wrote:Embarrassing stuff from FI again. SC played right into Vettel's hands, but Hamilton holds him off

I know you're a delusional Hamilton fan boy but how did the SC benefit Vettel? Ferrari's only chance at victory was the undercut on the new ultra softs.

by Guest Mon 28 Aug 2017, 4:14 pm

Don't really need to be dealing with a wum right now. Someone might take the bait on the football section. Try there.

by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon 28 Aug 2017, 5:27 pm

Just John wrote:Don't really need to be dealing with a wum right now. Someone might take the bait on the football section. Try there.

WUM? Says the guy with his head inside Hamilton's rectum

Jim Clark is the greatest F1 driver from Britain

by GSC Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:04 am

Hope someone asks Alonso whether Massa or Vandoorne provide a better tow

by GSC Sat 02 Sep 2017, 9:32 am

Renaults boss seen coming out of the McLaren motorhome.

Mooted deal remains McLaren swapping to Renault engines and Toro Rosso using Honda.

by GSC Sat 02 Sep 2017, 10:05 am

P3 delayed due to rain.

Could be due another Sunday Quali/Race combo if it doesnt ease up.

by Guest Sun 03 Sep 2017, 2:22 pm

Hamilton wins, Bottas 2nd & Vettel in third

Hamilton leads WDC by 3 points

McLaren expected to announce a deal with Renault to become their engine suppliers for 2018.

by GSC Mon 04 Sep 2017, 9:28 am

Hamilton did what he needed to around the two most power dependent tracks going, suspect Vettel would've taken a 2nd and 3rd though.

Seems like the Honda - Renault, McLaren - TR swap will happen

by GSC Mon 04 Sep 2017, 9:51 am

Talk that Sauber will be Sauber - Alfa Romeo next year

by CaledonianCraig Tue 05 Sep 2017, 9:52 am

GSC wrote:Talk that Sauber will be Sauber - Alfa Romeo next year

Very intetesting and always good to hear new manufacturers with a reputation getting involved in F1.

by Fernando Tue 05 Sep 2017, 10:03 am

It'll be a Ferrari engine with an Alfa Badge on it.

by GSC Tue 05 Sep 2017, 12:46 pm

And probably LeClerc in the cockpit

by Guest Tue 05 Sep 2017, 1:41 pm

Been known for a while, that it's Ericsson & LeClerc at Sauber next year. RB won't veto the McLaren/Renault deal, and likely to receive cheaper engine deals, if they allow Sainz to move to Renault. Toro Rosso likely to be Kyvat & Gasly. Everything else is pretty much status quo in the market, even Massa might continue for another year, then move to Formula E in 2019.

by GSC Wed 06 Sep 2017, 2:38 pm

Sainz and Hulk would be the strongest driver pairing outside of Red Bull.

by GSC Sun 10 Sep 2017, 9:13 am

Being reported that Sainz has signed for Renault and may replace Palmer at the Malaysian GP. Announcement on that and engines expected before Singapore

by Guest Sun 10 Sep 2017, 10:11 am

As expected. Should end the Kubica return too.

by GSC Sun 10 Sep 2017, 10:20 am

You have high expectations John Wink

by Nathaniel Jacobs Sun 10 Sep 2017, 11:48 am

If Massa's retires again Williams will require a driver over 25 to replace him as in accordance with their Martini sponsorship. Stroll isn't allowed to undertake the martini sponsorship days as he's underage

by GSC Sun 10 Sep 2017, 11:52 am

Not sure who would suit Williams. Maybe try for Rosberg or Button to see if they're feeling the itch.

Need an experienced, dependable driver opposite Stroll, in case he continues to be out of his depth. Don't think bringing back Massa is the answer, hes been below average for a few years now.

by Nathaniel Jacobs Sun 10 Sep 2017, 12:07 pm

Not any chance that Rosberg will return tbh especially with Williams, he gave up a drive with the class leading mercedes so no logical decision would lead to him joining a midfield team. Plus I'm sure Rosberg has enrolled into an American university.

by GSC Sun 10 Sep 2017, 12:09 pm

Probably not but no harm asking the question.

Williams likely not a million miles off FI but have half their points because a poor driver lineup vs Perez and Ocon.

by GSC Mon 11 Sep 2017, 1:16 pm

Kubica will be released amid interest from Williams.

He and Stroll would be a massive gamble for 2018

by GSC Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:30 pm

Zak Brown grouped with Renaults team boss and Hondas boss grouped with Horner and TRs boss for press conferences

Wonder why

by Guest Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:46 pm

Bottas signs new one-year deal

by Guest Thu 14 Sep 2017, 11:18 am

Rumours flying around this morning, but apparently Renault are to split from Red Bull at the end of their current contract. Some say, by the end of the 2018 season, whereas other reports claim it will be by the end of 2020, when Porsche will buy Red Bull, in time for the new engine regulations in 2021.

by GSC Thu 14 Sep 2017, 11:29 am

2nd one doesn't really make sense from the perspective of the Honda deal.

Would leave a spot for Renault to supply another team.

by GSC Thu 14 Sep 2017, 11:30 am

Fernando says if he stays in F1 hed turn up to Monaco next year

by GSC Thu 14 Sep 2017, 11:47 am

BBC now reporting Renault have told RB to piss off after 2018. So RB-Honda it is.

When are Ricciardo and Verstappen contracted to again

by Guest Thu 14 Sep 2017, 11:55 am

Verstappen until end of 2019
Ricciardo until end of 2018

by GSC Thu 14 Sep 2017, 12:00 pm

Ricciardo loose just as Kimi and Bottas, contracts expire. No chance either will continue with a Honda engine

by CaledonianCraig Thu 14 Sep 2017, 1:25 pm

I cannot see either driver wishing to stay at the team especially if Honda continue to struggle at Torro Rosso next year. Only way I would see them stay is if Honda produced highly encouraging results at Torro Rosso which, at the moment, looks well nigh impossible.

I do get the feeling though that Red Bull will seek a partnership with another engine supplier currently not in F1. Christian Horner has been throwing names around in recent weeks such as Aston Martin, Lamborghini and Porsche - perhaps he knew something we didn't?

by GSC Thu 14 Sep 2017, 1:36 pm

Porsche is the mooted name but that won't be until the engine formula resets in 2021.

Gut says Ricciardo to McLaren in 2018 (don't think Ferrari would team him and Vettel and Merc will retain Bottas over Toto doing any actual management).

Verstappen to Ferrari in 2019 (or next year if they can buy him out)

by CaledonianCraig Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:03 pm

GSC wrote:Porsche is the mooted name but that won't be until the engine formula resets in 2021.

Gut says Ricciardo to McLaren in 2018 (don't think Ferrari would team him and Vettel and Merc will retain Bottas over Toto doing any actual management).

Verstappen to Ferrari in 2019 (or next year if they can buy him out)

I honestly cannot see Verstappen signing for Ferrari whilst Vettel is there and cannot see Vettel wanting him there either. Both want the No 1 drive and would refuse to be lap dogs.

by GSC Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:06 pm

Decent chance Vettel isn't there in 2019 either. Doesn't get on well with The higher ups

by GSC Thu 14 Sep 2017, 9:07 pm

Verstappen apparently has a performance related clause that gets him out his deal early

by GSC Fri 15 Sep 2017, 9:55 am

Singapore gets a new 4 year contract to host the GP.

Like this circuit, better street circuit than Monaco or Baku.

Ricciardo already making noises about RB needing to improve to keep him around.

by Guest Fri 15 Sep 2017, 10:43 am

Nico Rosberg has joined Kubica's management team. I would assume to negotiate that deal with Williams to replace Massa?

by GSC Fri 15 Sep 2017, 11:10 am

Useful reference for teams to have as to whether Kubica can handle physically everything that goes into driving these cars (even if he's a year out of date)

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