2017 and 2018 World Snooker Championship Thread

[CaledonianCraig]

First topic message reminder :

I am surprised no topic up here yet for the World Championship so here goes a few days too late.

Mark Selby looks like a good bet for a third world title. Where will the main challenge come from? Perhaps Judd Trump, John Higgins, Ding Junhui and Ronnie O'Sullivan.

Selby looked very good in his opening match as did Higgins. O'Sullivan's mental demons have resurfaced again in time for The Crucible and will need to improve to win again.

Thoughts?

[No name Bertie]

Ding has won three triple crown tournaments (2 x UK + 1 x Masters).   Maybe Judd Trump outranks Hawkins in terms of best player not to win one of these - but he is only 28.  Maybe there are a few around Barry Hawkins (e.g. Joe Perry).

I was thinking more of best not to win the biggest title - the world title. That is what they all strive for.

Yes fair enough.  ps I made a mistake with Judd Trump - he won a UK championship.

The world title is so tough to win. It's a marathon. It seems it fits the temperament of a Mark Selby, a Steve Davis, a Stephen Hendry, a John Higgins.

[CaledonianCraig]

I have no qualms about who wins the final. Higgins is a Scot with a chance to win a fifth world title and Mark Williams is a lovely bloke. Love how he plays with a laugh and a joke. Great to see. Chuffed for him.

[No name Bertie]

I have no qualms about who wins the final. Higgins is a Scot with a chance to win a fifth world title and Mark Williams is a lovely bloke. Love how he plays with a laugh and a joke. Great to see. Chuffed for him.

I agree. As they say - whoever wins deserves it. Mark Williams seems to be able to relieve the tension within him by playing with a laugh and a joke.

[CaledonianCraig]

Well its goodnight from me. Sorry if I bombarded the thread with running commentary.

[No name Bertie]

I don't have a television, and I couldn't find a radio broadcast of it. So I used your commentary to find out what was happening - and much appreciated it.

[No name Bertie]

It seems that Mark Williams has pulled off the best two shots of the tournament:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/44018375
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/43882663

[eirebilly]

As I grew up loving the snooker in the 70's, 80's, 90's and early 00's (kind of lost the love the last 10 years) this is a dream final for me. 2 of my all time favourites in it.

Would love Williams to win it but I honestly cannot see past Higgins. To equal ROS's 5 world titles would be testament to just how good he is.

For me, Hendry will always be the best player I have ever seen (Ronnie more talented but Hendry by far the more rounded player) though and I honestly cant see anyone matching his world title haul. People say that Hendry played in a weaker era... nonsense, he just made the rest look weaker by his dominance. People forget that players like Higgins, Williams, Doherty and Ronnie etc. were around while Hendry was still the king and they could not dominate him.

[CaledonianCraig]

As I grew up loving the snooker in the 70's, 80's, 90's and early 00's (kind of lost the love the last 10 years) this is a dream final for me. 2 of my all time favourites in it.

Would love Williams to win it but I honestly cannot see past Higgins. To equal ROS's 5 world titles would be testament to just how good he is.

For me, Hendry will always be the best player I have ever seen (Ronnie more talented but Hendry by far the more rounded player) though and I honestly cant see anyone matching his world title haul. People say that Hendry played in a weaker era... nonsense, he just made the rest look weaker by his dominance. People forget that players like Higgins, Williams, Doherty and Ronnie etc. were around while Hendry was still the king and they could not dominate him.

Hits the nail squarely on the head on all points.

Tomorrow night will see either John Higgins crowned world champion for a fifth time or Mark Williams crowned world champion for a third time. Either winner will richly deserve it. Myself as a Scot will root for John but love the way Williams plays the game. He takes on shots others don't and has an element of fun and looks to inject humour now and again. Lovely to see. A final I can watch and be happy with whoever wins.

[No name Bertie]

It has been said that players like Alex Higgins, Jimmy White and Ronnie O'Sullivan were among the most "naturally" talented players, that played with flair, intuition, speed - driven by a sort of open passion.  They got the labels Hurricane,  Whirlwind and the Rocket. I know of no others getting such nicknames.  

These players tend not to have the patience / the temperament for marathons like the World Championships.   Jimmy White has never won it and Alex Higgins won it twice I think.

Other players seem more mechanical, constructed, regimented - they have greater patience, they repress emotion, appearing cold, emotionless, automatons.   They tend to play the game more slowly and more thoughtfully (or at least slow thinking).  They tend to treat the sport as a science to be mastered rather than an art to express themselves in.  These types of players (the "regimented scientist / mechanic") tend to have more success in the World Championships.

I am not criticising one type of player over the other.  I am just trying to describe what I see.  I should add, some players have a bit of both in them but generally tend to one "extreme" or the other.

What I quite like about sporting competitions are the skills on display and the drama as the two competitors lock horns.  It is a form of theatre - sporting theatre.

[CaledonianCraig]

The final beckons. May the best man win.....

[eirebilly]

Bertie,

Most people would say that players like Ebdon and Williams were extremely calculating and slow. If you ever really watch them both Ebdon and Williams play/played some of the most high risk snooker that I have ever seen. Just because they take a little extra time in thinking about the shots should not take away from their attack minded approach. Take Williams' shot last night, brilliant and shot of the tournament but that is the way Williams plays. Had ROS done the same then nobody would here the end of it.

Hendry, for all his perceived regimented approach, was also one of the most attacking players the game has seen.

Playing fast does not necessarily mean that it is mechanical.

[CaledonianCraig]

Williams weighs in first with a break of 37 and leaves nothing on for Higgins.

[CaledonianCraig]

Both players had their chances in that opening frame but it goes to Mark Williams.

[CaledonianCraig]

Williams in first and builds a 42 point lead. Higgins gets a chance but can he take it?

[CaledonianCraig]

Higgins just not able to take his chances and Mark Williams goes into a 2-0 lead. Or does he? Williams misses a surprising pink and offers Higgins a lifeline. But 2-0 it is as Higgins goes in off after potting a pink.

[CaledonianCraig]

Higgins in with a golden chance in the third frame. Surely, he'll get his first frame on the board here. Carelessly, leaves himself cueing over a red and misses the pink. He's not a happy bunny as Mark Williams comes to the table eyeing up a 3-0 lead.

[eirebilly]

Higgins needs to take this chance...

[CaledonianCraig]

Williams fails to put the frame to bed. Another half chance for Higgins.

[CaledonianCraig]

But misses the last red. This looks like a green ball frame.

[CaledonianCraig]

Lovely pot on the green from Williams and 3-0 it is.

[eirebilly]

This is poor from Higgins, you could say nerves but he has been here loads of times. He simply must finish these chances.

[CaledonianCraig]

Another golden chance now for Higgins.

[CaledonianCraig]

A kick when on 55 and Higgins break ends. Chance for Mark Williams to steal.

[No name Bertie]

... Playing fast does not necessarily mean that it is mechanical.

Very good point - perhaps systematic rather than mechanical would have been a better word. I need to think about it. Scientific and calculating were other words that I used that I think are less contentious labels.

[CaledonianCraig]

Williams misses a very tough last red along the top cushion but it runs safe. A safety exchange now with the final red on the table.

[CaledonianCraig]

That will hurt Higgins. Had chances but loses the frame and trails 4-0 at the mid-session interval.

[CaledonianCraig]

... Playing fast does not necessarily mean that it is mechanical.

Very good point - perhaps systematic rather than mechanical would have been a better word.  I need to think about it.  Scientific and calculating were other words that I used that I think are less contentious labels.

For me the big difference is in the mental department. Is the burning desire there for Ronnie? Is the hunger there for Ronnie? Not to the degree of the likes of Hendry. Certain players have been able to rattle Ronnie such as Selby where they can play top notch matchplay snooker. Hendry in his prime could not be rattled by anyone. He was ruthless.

[eirebilly]

... Playing fast does not necessarily mean that it is mechanical.

Very good point - perhaps systematic rather than mechanical would have been a better word.  I need to think about it.  Scientific and calculating were other words that I used that I think are less contentious labels.

As I said about Ebdon. People think that he is one of the most boring players but if you really look at the way he plays he actually is one of the most attacking players I have seen. Far more attacking than Ronnie, he just takes a lot more time and that is more to do with another of his tactics.

[CaledonianCraig]

Much more like it from Higgins. A break of 119 and Higgins now trails 4-1.

[CaledonianCraig]

Williams though hits back to take the sixth frame and leads 5-1.

[CaledonianCraig]

Higgins definitely settling down now. In on a break and gets bad bounce off the cushion to end his break of 46.

[CaledonianCraig]

And Higgins gets another chance and puts the frame to bed. Williams leads 5-2 going into the final frame of the session.

[CaledonianCraig]

A bout of safety ends with Williams pushing the boat out a bit and taking on a very tough red to the middle which he misses. Higgins in with a chance.

[CaledonianCraig]

Higgins, with a break of 59, looks odds on to take the 8th frame.

[CaledonianCraig]

Mark Williams takes a 5-3 lead into this evening's session against John Higgins. Higgins will be delighted with that given that he trailed 4-0. Williams will be pleased to have the lead given that he hasn't scored as consistently as he normally does.

[Born Slippy]

Williams looking very good so far today. Opened up a five frame lead. Some phenomenal shotmaking. In again in this frame as well.

[Born Slippy]

Bertie,

Most people would say that players like Ebdon and Williams were extremely calculating and slow. If you ever really watch them both Ebdon and Williams play/played some of the most high risk snooker that I have ever seen. Just because they take a little extra time in thinking about the shots should not take away from their attack minded approach. Take Williams' shot last night, brilliant and shot of the tournament but that is the way Williams plays. Had ROS done the same then nobody would here the end of it.

Hendry, for all his perceived regimented approach, was also one of the most attacking players the game has seen.

Playing fast does not necessarily mean that it is mechanical.

I doubt anyone before has ever said that Williams is a slow player. He’s one of the fastest in the game - probably only slower than ROS and Trump.

6 frames in a row now with yet more supreme potting. Higgins starting to look like he needs a Williams’ implosion. Looks unlikely as Williams looks in devastating form.

[88Chris05]

13-7. Higgins looks to have all the momentum when he drew level at 7-7; since then, he's barely had a shot. Williams has been outstanding from that point, can't believe he's producing this form again after so long in the wilderness. Aside from those few months in 2011, Williams has been nowhere for more or less fifteen years. Looks unrecognisable now.

Five frames left in this session, really feel Higgins needs four of them. He'd settle for going in to this evening's session 11-14 down if you offered it him now, I'm sure. But hard to see where his next frame is coming from at all at the moment, never mind four out of five.

[88Chris05]

14-7 and this one is done, for me. Higgins looks totally shot now. That brown he took on in that frame was crazy shot selection, and very unlike him. He's been a bit unlucky that when on the very few occasions Williams has missed, he's not been left anything decent to get him going, but he let the frustration get the better of him taking that brown on.

But Williams has been magnificent. The pots he's pulling out are superb, over and over again.

[88Chris05]

Phenomenal pressure clearance of 72 from Higgins to take twenty-third frame on the final black. Won't make a bit of difference in the grand scheme of things, but outstanding clearance nonetheless.

14-9 to Williams now.

[88Chris05]

15-10 after the penultimate session. If Higgins had taken that last frame it might have been a little interesting tonight. But alas, Williams still has it more or less sewn up despite Higgins showing a bit of fight and quality at last.

Think Mark will end up winning something like 18-13.

[Guest]

Anyone, but Higgins. Hopefully Williams can wrap this up relatively sharply tonight.

[No name Bertie]

I've heard that Mark Williams is playing some of his shots with his eyes closed - so in the zone must he be.

[Guest]

Anyone, but Higgins. Hopefully Williams can wrap this up relatively sharply tonight.

+1

[No name Bertie]

Bertie,

Most people would say that players like Ebdon and Williams were extremely calculating and slow. If you ever really watch them both Ebdon and Williams play/played some of the most high risk snooker that I have ever seen. Just because they take a little extra time in thinking about the shots should not take away from their attack minded approach. Take Williams' shot last night, brilliant and shot of the tournament but that is the way Williams plays. Had ROS done the same then nobody would here the end of it.

Hendry, for all his perceived regimented approach, was also one of the most attacking players the game has seen.

Playing fast does not necessarily mean that it is mechanical.

I doubt anyone before has ever said that Williams is a slow player. He’s one of the fastest in the game - probably only slower than ROS and Trump.

6 frames in a row now with yet more supreme potting. Higgins starting to look like he needs a Williams’ implosion. Looks unlikely as Williams looks in devastating form.

With all the discussion I have looked up average shot times and according to World Snooker Mark Williams was the fourth fastest player over 2017:
1: Thepchaiya al-noor  16 seconds
2: Ronnie O'Sullivan 17 seconds
3: Judd Trump 18 seconds
4: Mark Williams 18 seconds
...
129: Peter Ebdon 32 seconds

[Uryu Ishida]

was anyone noteworthy slower than ebdon?

[Guest]

12-15

What I feared

[CaledonianCraig]

Epic stuff from Higgins.

[CaledonianCraig]

Williams won't fade though. I still fear he will bag his third world title tonight. What a turnaround in his career.

[Guest]

U sure, son?

13-15

Williams can’t finish a break tonight. I’m worried

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