Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:The Scots voted to remain part of the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU. Every Scottish vote counted the same as every other UK citizen. I don't see the issue.

The Scots (a good number if you look at post-ref stats from neutral sources) decided to vote no on varying issues. One of the main ones was because they feared losing their place in Europe. That won loads of votes for Better Together and has proved to be fruitless for the voters as they are now out of Europe.

The issue is that many Scots sees Scotland as its own country - sure not independent - but very close to it as they have their own government. However, when they vote by 62% to remain in Europe and end up being taken out of Europe it becomes a big issue to many. Yes we know the UK voted to exit but there are perhaps a million plus Scots who fail to recognize or accept being part of the UK or see themselves Scottish first and foremost and feel how they vote should hold more water than it does in the current union.

Sorry Craig, but that's democracy. Why should somebody in Edinburghs vote count more than someone's in London? Almost as ridiculous as Mhairi Black complaining that a region with more inhabitants had more MPs representing it than another region with less MPs.

But such is the politics of the SNP, always phrasing as Scotland vs the rest of the UK (or more accurately England) when Scotland voted to be part of the UK.

Ent wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:

Ent wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Ent wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Ent wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Which makes them the majority, which makes it right that your still part of the UK etc etc, yaddah yaddah, majority voted for blah blah, tough cookies blah blah, no Scotland isn't some amazing place that deserves to do everything by itself etc etc

Of course it is. It (or England, Wales or Northern Ireland) are perfectly entitled to seek to end the union whenever they wish. There is nothing written into it stating the union to be for all eternity and unbreakable.

Constitutionally I'm not sure they are - there needs to be parliamentary approval for constitutional changes. Scotland have to ask for a referendum, they just can't have one.

Scotland could stage a referendum anytime they wish (theoretically) without approval from Westminster - it would be an unofficial one and cannot see that happening. If it did and yes vote won then Westminster would look pretty shabby if they failed to recognize the result.

Well no it wouldn't as there would be no official remain campaign and everyone would know it wasn't a referendum and so the vote result couldn't be taken seriously.

SNP would just go ahead and do this if what you say is the case.

Of course people would know there was a referendum - it is not like it would be done in secret. It would be reported across the world (even if unofficial). Very true there'd be no remain campaign but a result would still be returned and if remain voters abstained all it would do would return a bigger percentage of yes voters and strengthen feelings that independence was wanted. That won't happen (an unofficial referendum) but the longer May tries saying 'Now is not the time' the more she gets people's backs up and turns waiverers into yes voters.

Everyone would know it wasn't a real referendum, it would be pointless and the result would be false and would not be taken seriously. The SNP would be getting horrific abuse for wasting time and money on it instead of running Scotland.

If this was viable they would have done it already instead of the route they have gone down with an official referendum in 2014 and asking for another.

You'd think so but they've gotten this far.

Hmmm like Westminster aren't wasting time and money on this snap election? At a time when they should be concentrating on Brexit negotiations - the exc...err..reason they gave for blocking a referendum. Only difference is I don't see pelters fired at Westminster for it. Still carry on with the double standards eh?

Look. Don't be daft. The GE is over by June 9th. Jimmy Cranky deliberately proposed Indyref2 at a time she knows it'll be a pain for May et al. No wonder she was told to piss off re. that agenda.

Do you look at timelines? Sturgeon asked for a date just before Brexit goes through and by then all the deals will be signed so we know what the situation will be. Given that this referendum proposal is to protect Scotland's place in Europe then could only be proposed for before the Brexit matter is finalized. In any case does the time matter? Reading all the comments on here and those coming from the unionists nobody wants another one anyway. That being the case - there is nothing to fear. Get it over and done with and sit back to wait for the customary no result. Simples.

Any referendum on independence (if granted) would have to give a fair choice to the Scottish people, not just be at the most convenient time for the SNP when they think they will get their leave vote.

Yes but when that would be is not clear. Either at Sturgeon's time just before Brexit when all deals will be signed and sealed on Brexit and a clearer picture has formed or after Brexit is complete (say six months after Brexit) when a Hard Brexit will be biting. The latter seems like the more likely to me of a Yes vote in any case.

I imagine it would be years after leaving, if the negotiations are even complete in 2 years.

The strength or weakness after leaving the EU will take years to be come apparent, it won't be a cliff edge.

The divorce proceedings will be staggered.

The Scottish electorate can not be asked to choose between 2 unknowns, it isn't right and I'm surprised the SNP aren't getting more heat about it.

Ent wrote:I imagine it would be years after leaving, if the negotiations are even complete in 2 years.

The strength or weakness after leaving the EU will take years to be come apparent, it won't be a cliff edge.

The divorce proceedings will be staggered.

The Scottish electorate can not be asked to choose between 2 unknowns, it isn't right and I'm surprised the SNP aren't getting more heat about it.

Why would they? Scots voted by 62% to remain in Europe and that is what this call for a referendum is all about - done in the interests of that Scottish electorate. I'd fully understand what you were saying if there were no underlying issues/grievances but there are. The European card was used in the last referendum to buy votes by the No campaign and it worked and now the opposite has happened - Scots are being taken out of Europe. Why should the SNP get any heat for it? If anything the heat should be on elsewhere for those that said vote no or you lose your place in Europe around two and a half years ago.

Also let's remember that before the Euro Ref. all the smart money was on a no vote being returned so it is not like the SNP changed tact to force a referendum. They knew how Scots felt on Europe and always said a vote to leave would see them look at another referendum and the surprise result came up and here we are.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Ent wrote:I imagine it would be years after leaving, if the negotiations are even complete in 2 years.

The strength or weakness after leaving the EU will take years to be come apparent, it won't be a cliff edge.

The divorce proceedings will be staggered.

The Scottish electorate can not be asked to choose between 2 unknowns, it isn't right and I'm surprised the SNP aren't getting more heat about it.

Why would they? Scots voted by 62% to remain in Europe and that is what this call for a referendum is all about - done in the interests of that Scottish electorate. I'd fully understand what you were saying if there were no underlying issues/grievances but there are. The European card was used in the last referendum to buy votes by the No campaign and it worked and now the opposite has happened - Scots are being taken out of Europe. Why should the SNP get any heat for it? If anything the heat should be on elsewhere for those that said vote no or you lose your place in Europe around two and a half years ago.

No, it's not. It's about Sturgeon and the SNP chasing their dogmatic independence ideas and using that as an excuse to have a second Referendum so soon after the last. They want independence no matter what.

Of course the SNP want Independence at all costs - that is their whole purpose for being.

Let's not play down this European issue though. Ask anybody and they all agree that Brexit is the biggest thing politically to happen to the UK in generations - in short it is massive. It is now going through despite Scots voting to remain and despite it being the Scottish government's preferred route. Like I said before all the smart money pre-Brexit vote was on a remain vote being returned and the Scottish government backed that stance so it is not like they were anti-Europe a la UKIP and then getting a vote they wanted and still asking for an indyref.  If you can find any old news coverage of the night of the Brexit vote result then you'll see a lot of political figures readily accepting that the result would be another indyref could be expected and not much then was claimed about it being an unfair request either.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Of course the SNP want Independence at all costs - that is their whole purpose for being.

Let's not play down this European issue though. Ask anybody and they all agree that Brexit is the biggest thing politically to happen to the UK in generations - in short it is massive. It is now going through despite Scots voting to remain and despite it being the Scottish government's preferred route. Like I said before all the smart money pre-Brexit vote was on a remain vote being returned and the Scottish government backed that stance so it is not like they were anti-Europe a la UKIP and then getting a vote they wanted and still asking for an indyref.  If you can find any old news coverage of the night of the Brexit vote result then you'll see a lot of political figures readily accepting that the result would be another indyref could be expected and not much then was claimed about it being an unfair request either.

Which just goes to show how egotistical, selfish and stupid they really are. All they're interested in is some sort of imaginary Utopia and their own political legacy, regardless of the damage they cause. Pity we don't have PR as the fact the SNP have the MPs they do, with maybe 25% of the vote that UKIP got (they're w.a.nkers though so I don't mind them missing out) is anachronistic.

I can remember commentators suggesting the Brexit vote would trigger Sturgeon et al asking for Indyref2. Sure I can. Was always going to with that crew;
any excuse. Doesn't mean they'll get it though. What're you going to do if it doesn't happen? Carry on p!ssing in the tent? Form some sort of paramilitary wing?

This is just going round and round in circles. You clearly want out, no matter what. I happen to think fragmenting perfectly functional Nations is basically just moronic these days (unless we're talking Soviet/Yugoslav-type entities), regardless of the fact I'd happily have rid given the ongoing rhetoric.

You have your opinion others have theirs. And nothing will change that. As strong as I am on the pro-indy stance you are as strong on the pro-union stance. Best leave it there.

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Of course the SNP want Independence at all costs - that is their whole purpose for being.

Let's not play down this European issue though. Ask anybody and they all agree that Brexit is the biggest thing politically to happen to the UK in generations - in short it is massive. It is now going through despite Scots voting to remain and despite it being the Scottish government's preferred route. Like I said before all the smart money pre-Brexit vote was on a remain vote being returned and the Scottish government backed that stance so it is not like they were anti-Europe a la UKIP and then getting a vote they wanted and still asking for an indyref.  If you can find any old news coverage of the night of the Brexit vote result then you'll see a lot of political figures readily accepting that the result would be another indyref could be expected and not much then was claimed about it being an unfair request either.

Which just goes to show how egotistical, selfish and stupid they really are. All they're interested in is some sort of imaginary Utopia and their own political legacy, regardless of the damage they cause. Pity we don't have PR as the fact the SNP have the MPs they do, with maybe 25% of the vote that UKIP got (they're w.a.nkers though so I don't mind them missing out) is anachronistic.

I can remember commentators suggesting the Brexit vote would trigger Sturgeon et al asking for Indyref2. Sure I can. Was always going to with that crew;
any excuse. Doesn't mean they'll get it though. What're you going to do if it doesn't happen? Carry on p!ssing in the tent? Form some sort of paramilitary wing?

This is just going round and round in circles. You clearly want out, no matter what. I happen to think fragmenting perfectly functional Nations is basically just moronic these days (unless we're talking Soviet/Yugoslav-type entities), regardless of the fact I'd happily have rid given the ongoing rhetoric.

Sturgeon has a problem............She is going to only realistically have one more bite at the independence cherry in the foreseeable future (can't keep having referendums) and in the foreseeable future the spectre of Brexit with all its complications and uncertainties will come to pass.....even more.

Since Brexit the Union has had a healthy double digit lead over Independence..

Be very brave to go it alone in uncertain times.......If Britain is struggling.... hard to see much Scottish optimism in them doing any better..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Of course the SNP want Independence at all costs - that is their whole purpose for being.

Let's not play down this European issue though. Ask anybody and they all agree that Brexit is the biggest thing politically to happen to the UK in generations - in short it is massive. It is now going through despite Scots voting to remain and despite it being the Scottish government's preferred route. Like I said before all the smart money pre-Brexit vote was on a remain vote being returned and the Scottish government backed that stance so it is not like they were anti-Europe a la UKIP and then getting a vote they wanted and still asking for an indyref.  If you can find any old news coverage of the night of the Brexit vote result then you'll see a lot of political figures readily accepting that the result would be another indyref could be expected and not much then was claimed about it being an unfair request either.

Which just goes to show how egotistical, selfish and stupid they really are. All they're interested in is some sort of imaginary Utopia and their own political legacy, regardless of the damage they cause. Pity we don't have PR as the fact the SNP have the MPs they do, with maybe 25% of the vote that UKIP got (they're w.a.nkers though so I don't mind them missing out) is anachronistic.

I can remember commentators suggesting the Brexit vote would trigger Sturgeon et al asking for Indyref2. Sure I can. Was always going to with that crew;
any excuse. Doesn't mean they'll get it though. What're you going to do if it doesn't happen? Carry on p!ssing in the tent? Form some sort of paramilitary wing?

This is just going round and round in circles. You clearly want out, no matter what. I happen to think fragmenting perfectly functional Nations is basically just moronic these days (unless we're talking Soviet/Yugoslav-type entities), regardless of the fact I'd happily have rid given the ongoing rhetoric.

Sturgeon has a problem............She is going to only realistically have one more bite at the independence cherry in the foreseeable future (can't keep having referendums) and in the foreseeable future the spectre of Brexit with all its complications and uncertainties will come to pass.....even more.

Since Brexit the Union has had a healthy double digit lead over Independence..

Be very brave to go it alone in uncertain times.......If Britain is struggling.... hard to see much Scottish optimism in them doing any better..

Sorry but I have to disagree.

As I have pointed out before there are around 40% of the population that back independence and the younger generation are the pro-independence voters whilst the older generation (who know only life in the union) are the union backers. The younger generation are the future of Scotland. That 40% isn't going anywhere so that is a strong enough voice (and quite possibly will only get stronger) plus with SNP being the biggest political party in Scotland then independence talk isn't going to fade and die.

How will the call for independence diminish? I can't see it happening - the genie is out of the bottle. Scots won't take kindly to a Hard Brexit (when they voted to remain in Europe) and they certainly won't warm to Thatcher Mark II May's government. Too many Scots have had enough of Westminster rule. Those that think call for Independence will fade and die I say give me evidence that staunch independence backers are suddenly (for no reason whatsoever) going to fall in love with Westminster rule - sorry it isn't happening.

If concerted opinion polls over extended time shows independence support growing to consistently over 50% then another independence referendum will always be a possibility in my opinion.

If you lose 2 it's an exceptionally brave leader who calls for a 3rd in generation and puts their career on the line.

Not to mention it's probably kill the SNP with those who think it's a waste of time and money

GSC wrote:If you lose 2 it's an exceptionally brave leader who calls for a 3rd in generation and puts their career on the line.

Not to mention it's probably kill the SNP with those who think it's a waste of time and money

Public opinion matters. And like I said there are around 40% of voters that back independence. The only way no future referendums would happen is if that 40% recedes but all trends show it is growing and has been steadily since Thatcher's years in the early 80s. Feel free to tell me why you think this trend will change bearing in mind a Hard Brexit is around the corner and Thatcher Mark II May is set to govern for a few years? Certainly not a recipe to water down a call for independence - quite the opposite actually.

It doesn't really matter, if you lose 2, especially after Brexit, would be an exceptionally brave leader to call one in the mid to near future. Or political suicide. Probably the latter.

GSC wrote:It doesn't really matter, if you lose 2, especially after Brexit, would be an exceptionally brave leader to call one in the mid to near future. Or political suicide. Probably the latter.

There is no saying what circumstances will occur in the comings months/years that triggers another referendum. Brexit vote is proof of that. Who is to say what the future brings? Unlikely - yes. Political suicide - no. The SNP are the biggest party in Scotland and now have almost 50% share of the electorate.

Be a short list of circumstances bigger than Brexit.

GSC wrote:Be a short list of circumstances bigger than Brexit.

Circumstances as a result of Brexit is one for a start. A Hard Brexit that hits people in the pockets has a fair chance of fuelling support for independence. If polls show a rise in support for independence over a long spell Westminster only risk making matters worse by stifling calls for another vote in those circumstances. To be honest I'd be more surprised if calls for independence diminished in my lifetime to a point when independence was not an issue.

In other words, you nationalists will keep whining and crying until you get the victory you so desperately crave.
Hope it comes soon tbh

Derbymanc wrote:In other words, you nationalists will keep whining and crying until you get the victory you so desperately crave.
Hope it comes soon tbh

Nah. Just tell them to shove it. Sturgeon needs permission and knows it. They're a bit like Quebec - boring and whiny as a child, but with whisky and shortbread.

Its odd.

Unionists swear blind Scotland would not be able to cope financially with independence and that Scotland has got nothing to offer and carry mammoth debts. But Scots wants independence and they all throw a major hissy fit. Why? If Scotland is a burden then cut it loose but it is blatantly obvious that we offer much hence why unionists are determined to keep hold.

Because Scotland voted NO..

You understand that basic fact don't you ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because Scotland voted NO..

You understand that basic fact don't you ??

Under what circumstances eh? On false promises hence we are where we are now. Maybe you see nothing wrong on basing campaigns on lies to garner votes but many others do.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because Scotland voted NO..

You understand that basic fact don't you ??

Under what circumstances eh? On false promises hence we are where we are now. Maybe you see nothing wrong on basing campaigns on lies to garner votes but many others do.

Certainly agree with this. Think of all the lies and obfuscation re. finance, national wealth, Sterling, EU etc etc that the SNP came out with...

Personally it's becuase the majority voted no so wanted to stay as a union, if the SNP hadn't filled their campaign with fairytales and crud and come up with actual solutions to proper issues then maybe you'd have a point but hey ho.

The scariest thing is the SNP had years to prepare for what they would do when they got a referendum.....When it came they didn't have any idea of basics like....What Currency Scotland would use.

If that doesn't scare undecideds nothing will.

The last referendum people voted no as they were told a vote for no was the only way assured of remaining in Europe. Go figure. Many thousands bought into that promise and feel downright cheated.

Let's look at it this way. A political party makes promises going into this election and these promises would be expected to be upheld. If not the chance comes around for the voter to vote otherwise two or three years down the line. Therefore the independence referendum should be exactly the same. Government lies can see the government dethroned by the electorate and so should be the case from the independence referendum.

Actually Craig it wasn't just that, it was one of the decisions but i'm pretty sure the fact you didn't know what currency to use, were being told you'd stay in the EU despite them saying no you wouldn't and an inability to look at all financial outcomes was also a major issue (well according to my scots mates on the ships it was).

You know my feeling on givernment lies so no need to go there again, problem is with both sides not just one

CaledonianCraig wrote:The last referendum people voted no as they were told a vote for no was the only way assured of remaining in Europe. Go figure. Many thousands bought into that promise and feel downright cheated.

While that's very understandable, what happened since doesn't change the fact that leaving the UK would have meant leaving the EU.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because Scotland voted NO..

You understand that basic fact don't you ??

Under what circumstances eh? On false promises hence we are where we are now. Maybe you see nothing wrong on basing campaigns on lies to garner votes but many others do.

We'll keep the pound
We'll automatically remain a member of the EU
Oil at $130 a barrel
Secret oil-fields
The UK will pay your pensions

Keep up the good work Mother Theresa.

Her farcical negotiating skills (or lack of) is going to make for highly amusing embarrassment for her. Me thinks she thought the EU would dance to her tune. How very wrong she was.

Really though Salmonds hit on a master plan, keep holding referendums until the only people that give a **** enough to vote are him, Sturgeon and Craig

superflyweight wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because Scotland voted NO..

You understand that basic fact don't you ??

Under what circumstances eh? On false promises hence we are where we are now. Maybe you see nothing wrong on basing campaigns on lies to garner votes but many others do.

We'll keep the pound
We'll automatically remain a member of the EU
Oil at $130 a barrel
Secret oil-fields
The UK will pay your pensions

Three french Hens
Two turtle Doves..
and a Partridge in a pear tree...HUH

No good song is complete without at least one good...HUH.

Labour's problem summed up...

(Orb/independent poll..)

Favorability rating.....

Corbyn 33
Blair 21

Unfavorability rating.....

Corbyn 60
Blair 72.......

Labour party is dominated by Corbynistas and Blairites that can't or won't see they are toxic..

They are going to have to realise this sooner or later...

Preferably sooner !!!.

There are a number of reasons why Labour are in the state that they are at the moment.

Obvious one is their leader who just does not project himself or the message of the party well enough. I mean what is his REAL stance on Europe? He has never really spoken in any real strength or length on it and he is similar on other key topics. He comes across as a nice guy but too weak.

Secondly, the ferocious in-fighting at Labour is common knowledge. Tories have played on that to a tee pointing out that if their own party don't back Corbyn then how can voters. 

Thirdly, they have alienated themselves from almost 50% of the electorate in Scotland with their stance on independence so have lost long term voters there and more are jumping ship to vote Tory as well.

Where do they go from here? Well only up but they need big change. They need a visionary leader who will breathe new heart, new policies, new support and new belief into the party and attract back old voters and new ones. In Scotland I don't think they will ever win back support of the pro-independent backers until the lessen their stance on independence but across the rest of the UK it may steady the ship and allow them to start rebuilding.

Yougov 15/7......Is Tony Blair's latest attack on Corbyn fair ??

Fair.....8%
Unfair.23%
Why is this war criminal being given air time ?...69%

Teresa May thinks she is unpopular.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yougov 15/7......Is Tony Blair's latest attack on Corbyn fair ??

Fair.....8%
Unfair.23%
Why is this war criminal being given air time ?...69%

Teresa May thinks she is unpopular.

I'd be a part of the 69% I have to say.

Yougov
Labour 43
Con 41...

6 point lead down to 2..Good poll for May..

Off on holiday for a couple of weeks next week..Seems like everybody is already on theirs....

Ipsos mori...

Lab 42
Con 41

Leadership ratings..

Corbyn 45
May 36

75 % of Labour supporters happy with Corbyn..
66 % of Conservative supporters happy with May..

All to play for...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Off on holiday for a couple of weeks next week..Seems like everybody is already on theirs....

Ipsos mori...

Lab 42
Con 41

Leadership ratings..

Corbyn 45
May 36

75 % of Labour supporters happy with Corbyn..
66 % of Conservative supporters happy with May..

All to play for...

Its a quiet time for politics but i'm sure the board will pick up again soon.

I see the government has lost another court case, this time over the sky-high tribunal fees they introduced, which have been ruled to be illegal. Excellent news, and once again shows the value of Unions (the case was brought by Unison): access to justice should be a basic right in a functioning democracy, and pricing out poor people from that access is clearly unacceptable.

Worth mentioning that the SNP government can boast the lowest unemployment figures in Scotland for 25 years.

I find unemployment figures both sides of the border to be a crock of **** generally.

What qualifies as employment.

Underemployment should be a figure that's looked at closely. What's the point in having high employment when a huge proportion of those jobs are so terribly paid that people have to be supported by the taxpayer?

GSC wrote:I find unemployment figures both sides of the border to be a crock of **** generally.

What qualifies as employment.

Lower unemployment figures are what governments strive for and are certainly more desirable than high unemployment figures. And these figures just goes anothewr way to dispelling this media perpetrated myth that the SNP are in some way inferior to a Tory or Labour government in Holyrood.

Sure.

But I'd rather see a meaningful employment statistic where you count if you have enough income from your job to support yourself.

Someone working a zero hours contract who gets maybe 8 hours a week probably isn't going to be able to do that. Do they count as employed on the current stat

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:I find unemployment figures both sides of the border to be a crock of **** generally.

What qualifies as employment.

Lower unemployment figures are what governments strive for and are certainly more desirable than high unemployment figures. And these figures just goes anothewr way to dispelling this media perpetrated myth that the SNP are in some way inferior to a Tory or Labour government in Holyrood.

So I suppose that you'd conclude that the Tories are doing a fantastic job then? Or does that not fit your predetermined narrative?

Pr4wn wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:I find unemployment figures both sides of the border to be a crock of **** generally.

What qualifies as employment.

Lower unemployment figures are what governments strive for and are certainly more desirable than high unemployment figures. And these figures just goes anothewr way to dispelling this media perpetrated myth that the SNP are in some way inferior to a Tory or Labour government in Holyrood.

So I suppose that you'd conclude that the Tories are doing a fantastic job then? Or does that not fit your predetermined narrative?

Touché!

Pr4wn wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:I find unemployment figures both sides of the border to be a crock of **** generally.

What qualifies as employment.

Lower unemployment figures are what governments strive for and are certainly more desirable than high unemployment figures. And these figures just goes anothewr way to dispelling this media perpetrated myth that the SNP are in some way inferior to a Tory or Labour government in Holyrood.

So I suppose that you'd conclude that the Tories are doing a fantastic job then? Or does that not fit your predetermined narrative?

Make of it what you will but NHS Scotland is out-performing the rest of the UK's NHS so another caveat to the SNP and those rioting prisons as well - none of those in Scotland. Point is, like I have said before, the SNP are a thoroughly capable governing party. Sure they have their own agenda as do every other political party out there - I back them as their agenda resonates with me.

So you don't fancy addressing my point at all then? Thought not.

Pr4wn wrote:So you don't fancy addressing my point at all then? Thought not.

No i don't think they are doing a fantastic job. Why should i? The Tories go against everything i want from a political party. They are responsible for privatisation, looking to force austerity onto people, blatantly looking after their own above anything else and jumping into bed with a party with terrorist connections.

No doubts you have your own visions of how your ideal political party functions as well. You are welcome to them as I am welcome to mine.

You were using unemployment rate as a barometer of the performance of government. Clearly that's only a relevant statistic when it confirms your bias.