Political round up.............

by GSC Thu 20 Apr 2017, 11:14 am

First topic message reminder :

CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:The Scots voted to remain part of the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU. Every Scottish vote counted the same as every other UK citizen. I don't see the issue.

The Scots (a good number if you look at post-ref stats from neutral sources) decided to vote no on varying issues. One of the main ones was because they feared losing their place in Europe. That won loads of votes for Better Together and has proved to be fruitless for the voters as they are now out of Europe.

The issue is that many Scots sees Scotland as its own country - sure not independent - but very close to it as they have their own government. However, when they vote by 62% to remain in Europe and end up being taken out of Europe it becomes a big issue to many. Yes we know the UK voted to exit but there are perhaps a million plus Scots who fail to recognize or accept being part of the UK or see themselves Scottish first and foremost and feel how they vote should hold more water than it does in the current union.

Sorry Craig, but that's democracy. Why should somebody in Edinburghs vote count more than someone's in London? Almost as ridiculous as Mhairi Black complaining that a region with more inhabitants had more MPs representing it than another region with less MPs.

But such is the politics of the SNP, always phrasing as Scotland vs the rest of the UK (or more accurately England) when Scotland voted to be part of the UK.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 06 Sep 2017, 9:14 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Emphasis on shared views.

Really ??...The IRA weren't Sinn Fein last time I looked.

by LionsV2 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:04 am

Why have the government not done more in the Caribbean? Let down our overseas territories shockingly.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:25 am

The Tories lost 3 seats to Labour Last night...Once kids register they vote and it is a problem for the Blue team.

Trick is to get them registered..

Momentum has seen its membership go from 23 to 27,000 in the last couple of months..Not a fan of it but kids have lots of energy.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 08 Sep 2017, 2:50 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Why have the government not done more in the Caribbean? Let down our overseas territories shockingly.

Just what do you expect them to do? It's been, what, 24-48 hours? I'm amazed they haven't already re-build entire island infrastructures. I'm sure they're doing whatever can be done.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 2:54 pm

With respect Hammer is spot on...............Other Countries sent help 24 hours earlier.

by LionsV2 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 3:07 pm

These are British overseas territories, there should have been plans in place days ago when they knew what was going to happen, waiting and then delaying is simply not acceptable.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 08 Sep 2017, 3:42 pm

If you say so. Seems the norm now to expect miracles and then slate all and sundry when they aren't forthcoming. You'll be donating significantly to disaster relief I have no doubt.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 08 Sep 2017, 3:43 pm

Actually, blame other distractions. Brexit anyone?

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 3:52 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Actually, blame other distractions. Brexit anyone?

No one....The Government has departmental ministers.

by LionsV2 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 3:56 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:If you say so. Seems the norm now to expect miracles and then slate all and sundry when they aren't forthcoming. You'll be donating significantly to disaster relief I have no doubt.

As I always do when it comes to our overseas dependencies or those like Nepal that have contributed massively to our armed forces.

by LionsV2 Fri 08 Sep 2017, 3:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Actually, blame other distractions. Brexit anyone?

No one....The Government has departmental ministers.

Beggars belief that people seem to think that every cabinet minister is focused on Brexit, it's merely a convenient excuse.

by catchweight Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:59 am

This Conservative government is a shambles. Another policy, this time on public pay cap, that will dissatisfy everyone and has no clear though process behind it. A prime minister with no authority and a party with no direction.

by LionsV2 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 7:58 am

Very muddled thinking there, all it does is play into the hands of Johnson, Gove and Davis who you can be sure will highlight that this is achieving nothing.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 13 Sep 2017, 8:25 am

She's addressing problems that she had while home secretary not the ones currently facing her. No imagination or thought. Just a stubborn streak a mile wide and an inability to work or think outside set parameters.

by LionsV2 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:12 am

She seems to want to have the perception of being like Thatcher but having none of her resolve; the unions would have been put firmly in their place by now and the growing trend of trying to blackmail the government with strikes isn't a good one.

by catchweight Wed 13 Sep 2017, 11:22 am

This is just a dumb policy. Reflects the total confusion and lack of direction in the party. A ham fisted reaction to Labour gains on anti austerity. Will do more harm than good. Most likely trigger widespread industrial action and further erode party confidence.

It not an easy time to be in governemnet but this Conservative government is just bumbling from one problem to the next shooting itself in the foot.

by LionsV2 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 11:32 am

There's too big a divide between the two parties for it to make any real difference and Labour already seem to be at their saturation point, it will be felt more within the party itself.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:36 pm

We will see what the saturation point for Labour is when Brexit starts biting.....

by LionsV2 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:47 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:We will see what the saturation point for Labour is when Brexit starts biting.....

A new centrist leader and they'll romp it ala 1997.

by GSC Wed 13 Sep 2017, 3:02 pm

Not so sure, might end up being trying to have your cake and eat it re gaining enough support from ordinary voters and keeping the supporters JCs left wing focus have attracted.

Might end up with more votes, but will they have enough momentum (figuratively and literally) to overhaul the tories

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 13 Sep 2017, 3:06 pm

Dup voting with labour tonight

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 3:10 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:We will see what the saturation point for Labour is when Brexit starts biting.....

A new centrist leader and they'll romp it ala 1997.

They aren't going to get a Centrist leader with the membership they have....Though I agree with you ....

It costs £2 billion for a 1% public sector rise......So when the Govt chuck billions to Europe for a settlement after there being no magic money trees three months ago........Labour need to jump on it..

Labour are 42%. They don't need to be higher..............The Tories lose ten seats and they won't be able to govern. A minority Labour coalition with the SNP can then let the Lib Dems explain to voters why they won't put things like minimum wage and public sector pay rises through parliament....

My guess is they will..

With populist policies Labour won't need a majority.

by LionsV2 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 4:37 pm

We shall see, pleased to see the DUP putting pressure on the Tories to properly scrap the pay cap and don't see the necessity behind increasing tuition fees either.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 5:07 pm

DUP are laughing at the proverb.....You can't have your cake and eat it...

Meaningless vote in actuality....But symbolic in political terms....

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 13 Sep 2017, 9:25 pm

Apparently Yougov are suggesting there are more Labour centrist Scottish members than lefties in the Scottish Labour leader contest...No doubt they are right as usual..

Some impressive Asian guy is the Centrist candidate..

But anyone wanting to lump on the Corbyn underdog wants to remember.

1. A centrist in Scotland is different to a centrist in England..Scotland is a more left wing Country.
2. Labour won seats in GE17
3. Corbyn is popular with members..

Not a betting man but I have already given a licence to print money with Thornberry....She has come in from 14/1..

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 14 Sep 2017, 10:14 am

LionsV2 wrote:We shall see, pleased to see the DUP putting pressure on the Tories to properly scrap the pay cap and don't see the necessity behind increasing tuition fees either.

You wouldn't, because you have little idea of the funding model for HE and how much it costs. I suppose the costs could go back on general taxation?

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:04 pm

When you factor in subsidies and write offs it would cost around 9 billion to scrap tuition fees altogether......................

Foreign aid budget is 13 billion......Some going to Countries that give out more in aid than they receive of the UK................Some of it going to Dictators....

i know what I'd do..

by Scottrf Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:06 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:When you factor in subsidies and write offs it would cost around 9 billion to scrap tuition fees altogether......................

Foreign aid budget is 13 billion......Some going to Countries that give out more in aid than they receive of the UK................Some of it going to Dictators....

i know what I'd do..

Foreign aid is an investment not charity.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:07 pm

of course it is...

Philip Davies (Tory mp) "the repeated claim that spending increasing amounts of money over seas keeps us safe....has been shown to be nonsense"..............."Can I tell you that more and more money being sent over seas does not make us look compassionate but stupid, when we need it here!!"

I'm with him

by LionsV2 Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:14 pm

There's a thin when it comes to tuition fees, they shouldn't be free nor should they be the highest in the world; like most things we need a more centrist solution.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:17 pm

LionsV2 wrote:There's a thin when it comes to tuition fees, they shouldn't be free nor should they be the highest in the world; like most things we need a more centrist solution.

Not sure how going from no fees to plenty under Blair..................Is a centrist solution.

by LionsV2 Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:20 pm

£3000 a year isn't plenty Truss, I'm fortunate to have graduated in 2010 so the tripling of the fees didn't affect me.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 Sep 2017, 2:25 pm

Everything is relative.............Could certainly be characterised as plenty compared to zero..

But it is a subjective view so it is not worth arguing about...

by Mad for Chelsea Fri 15 Sep 2017, 5:38 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/14/home-secretary-ignores-court-order-sends-asylum-seeker-kabul-samim-bigzad

All rather shameful.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 15 Sep 2017, 6:25 am

That's alright, when they finally find him and kill him at least hammer will have some new w*nking material.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 15 Sep 2017, 8:28 am

LionsV2 wrote:£3000 a year isn't plenty Truss, I'm fortunate to have graduated in 2010 so the tripling of the fees didn't affect me.

So, are you suggesting it should be £3k from students themselves and the other ~£9k from taxation then?

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 15 Sep 2017, 8:31 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/14/home-secretary-ignores-court-order-sends-asylum-seeker-kabul-samim-bigzad

All rather shameful.

But not a surprise. Can a Home Secretary be charged as complicit in a murder if/when it happens?

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 15 Sep 2017, 9:08 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/14/home-secretary-ignores-court-order-sends-asylum-seeker-kabul-samim-bigzad

All rather shameful.
But not a surprise. Can a Home Secretary be charged as complicit in a murder if/when it happens?

I think if there had been some sort of legal recourse then she would have got done for refusing a court order to release a tortured detainee.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 22 Sep 2017, 10:44 am

(BMG) How would you vote if there was an EU referendum tomorrow ??

Stay 52%
Leave 48%.............

Theresa May's speech has been given the big build up..........I've never voted Conservative in my life but by the sound of it I'll be joining the party this Evening and delivering leaflets...

by lostinwales Fri 22 Sep 2017, 4:54 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:(BMG) How would you vote if there was an EU referendum tomorrow ??

Stay 52%
Leave 48%.............

Theresa May's speech has been given the big build up..........I've never voted Conservative in my life but by the sound of it I'll be joining the party this Evening and delivering leaflets...

Given the age profile of the leave voters the longer our multiskilled 'strong and stable' government string things out for the bigger that margin is going to get.

by Lowlandbrit Sun 24 Sep 2017, 6:37 pm

Meanwhile, in Germany (home of strangely low rent election coverage), Merkel's CDU/CSU is the biggest party but loses about 8%, SPD (Schultz) loses about 5%, AfD makes it to the Bundestag for the first time as the third largest party with about 13%.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:09 pm

What is the Shadow Chancellor doing talking about runs on the pound for in the event of a Labour Govt..

The guy is a clown.....Corbyn needs to get him to act professionally or ship him out..

Guy talks too much.

by **Pr4wn** Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:18 pm

I agree, better to be completed unprepared for situations like that.

by LionsV2 Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:20 pm

He's preparing people for the inevitable economic collapse and getting his excuses in early; has to be one of the most ridiculous things i've seen.

by GSC Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:23 pm

Pr4wn wrote:I agree, better to be completed unprepared for situations like that.

He should absolutely be prepared for all scenarios.

Talking in public about doomsday scenarios is probably unnecessary

by **Pr4wn** Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:26 pm

I don't have a problem with it, personally. I mean, the Tories were completely unprepared for Brexit negotiations even now we're 15 months after the vote.

I think the Brits get too much of the "things are going to be fine" cr@p from the Tories. The public need to wake up to the possibility that things probably won't be fine.

by LionsV2 Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:30 pm

Pr4wn wrote:I don't have a problem with it, personally. I mean, the Tories were completely unprepared for Brexit negotiations even now we're 15 months after the vote.

I think the Brits get too much of the "things are going to be fine" cr@p from the Tories. The public need to wake up to the possibility that things probably won't be fine.

What exactly is the Labour stance on Brexit? It seems to change daily based on who they're talking to.

The world needs to wake up to the possibility that things will get worse if you vote for Labour? That is essentially what he's said.

by **Pr4wn** Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:34 pm

Eh? No, it isn't.

I'm not impressed with Labour's stance re Brexit at all, for the record. It seems they want to have their cake and eat it.

Doesn't change the fact that Brexit looks like it's going to have a disastrous effect on UK trade and worker rights.

by LionsV2 Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:40 pm

Nice whataboutery there Pr4wn, not addressing any of the points at all.

by **Pr4wn** Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:45 pm

I don't understand what point you're trying to make at all, sorry.

My point is that the UK is pretty screwed with Brexit no matter who is in power.

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