Lions 2017 - Squad fitness Updates

by **LondonTiger** Wed 03 May 2017, 2:16 pm

Gents, please try to bicker about selection on one of the plethora of threads available for such discussion. I would like to keep track of the fitness of the players selected to tour NZ. Below is my attampt, but will need assistance to track players.

thanks

(status as at 22nd May 2017)

Player	Position	_______	Notes
Rory Best	Hooker		Participated in mini training camp
Jamie George	Hooker		Played this weekend
Ken Owens	Hooker		Currently injured.
Dan Cole	Prop		Played this weekend
Tadhg Furlong	Prop		Played this weekend
Joe Marler	Prop		Participated in mini training camp
Jack McGrath	Prop		Currently injured.
Kyle Sinckler	Prop		Participated in mini training camp
Mako Vunipola	Prop		Passed in-game HIA this weekend.
Iain Henderson	Second row		Participated in mini training camp
Maro Itoje	Second row		Played this weekend
Alun Wyn Jones	Second row		Feature in the last two Osreys game to confirm fitness.
George Kruis	Second row		Played this weekend
Courtney Lawes	Second row		Played this weekend
Ross Moriarty	Back row		Participated in mini training camp
Seán O'Brien	Back row		Was scheduled to play this weekend after over a month out. Lat withdrawal.
Peter O'Mahony	Back row		Played this weekend
CJ Stander	Back row		Played this weekend
Justin Tipuric	Back row		Played this weekend
Sam Warburton (c)	Back row		Knee injury ended his season on 7th April
Taulupe Faletau	Back row		Participated in mini training camp
~~Billy Vunipola~~	Back row		Out of tour.
Conor Murray	Scrum half		Played this weekend
Rhys Webb	Scrum half		Played this weekend
~~Ben Youngs~~	Scrum half		Out of tour.
Dan Biggar	Outside half		Played this weekend
Owen Farrell	Outside half		Played this weekend
Jonathan Sexton	Outside half		Unable to kick at goal due to an injury.
Jonathan Davies	Centre		Played this weekend
Robbie Henshaw	Centre		Rested this weekend.
Jonathan Joseph	Centre		Participated in mini training camp
Jared Payne	Centre		Participated in mini training camp
Ben Te'o	Centre		Participated in mini training camp
Elliot Daly	Wing		Played this weekend
George North	Wing		Played this weekend
Jack Nowell	Wing		Played this weekend
Tommy Seymour	Wing		Participated in mini training camp
Anthony Watson	Wing		Participated in mini training camp
Leigh Halfpenny	Full back		Played this weekend
Stuart Hogg	Full back		Participated in mini training camp
Liam Williams	Full back		Played this weekend

by R!skysports Wed 03 May 2017, 7:31 pm

I think of all the above, the one I am most worried about is Conor Murray

I think the rest we have cover which is as good as them - so would not be a step down, but at 9 - i think we are light

The other think I worry about is some of these players who are coming back, playing on the tour and getting re-injured - throwing the bonding out of whack

That can happen to all players, but ones just coming back, are likely to be more septiable.

Almost better to not take the 50/50 being fit and go with someone certain to be fit imo

by Taylorman Wed 03 May 2017, 7:31 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Gents, please try to bicker about selection on one of the plethora of threads available for such discussion. I would like to keep track of the fitness of the players selected to tour NZ. Below is my attampt, but will need assistance to track players.

thanks

(status as at 2nd May 2017)

Player Position _______ Notes
Rory Best Hooker 65 minutes against Ospreys. Lineout midfired slightly?
Jamie George Hooker Came off bench at 56 minute mark against Bristol.
Ken Owens Hooker 53 minutes against Connacht (set-piece misfired slightly?)
Dan Cole Prop 55 minutes against Sale (replaced when scrums went uncontested)
Tadhg Furlong Prop Rested for game with Glasgow
Joe Marler Prop 77 minutes for Quins v Wasps
Jack McGrath Prop On bench against Glasgow
Kyle Sinckler Prop 63 minutes for Quins v Wasps
Mako Vunipola Prop Strong showing against Bristol. 56 minutes played.
Iain Henderson Second row Full 80 against Ospreys (in back row). Strong performance.
Maro Itoje Second row Full 80 against Bristol.
Alun Wyn Jones Second row Not played since 18th March due to shoulder injury.
George Kruis Second row 61 relatively quiet minutes against Bristol.
Courtney Lawes Second row Replaced after 20 minutes having failed an HIA
Ross Moriarty Back row Played full 80 against Bath
Seán O'Brien Back row Missed last few weeks with hamstring problem
Peter O'Mahony Back row Rested this weekend.
CJ Stander Back row On bench against Treviso
Justin Tipuric Back row Full 80 against Ulster. Strong defensively.
Sam Warburton (c) Back row Knee injury ended his season on 7th April
Taulupe Faletau Back row Hat-trick of tries at weekend for Bath
Billy Vunipola Back row Full 80 against Bristol.
Conor Murray Scrum half Not played since injury against Wales on 10th March
Rhys Webb Scrum half Decent performance in win over Ulster
Ben Youngs Scrum half 3 try assists against Sale
Dan Biggar Outside half Strong 80 minutes in win over Ulster
Owen Farrell Outside half Quiet game against Bristol, 50% from tee.
Jonathan Sexton Outside half Rested this weekend.
Jonathan Davies Centre Strong performance in away win at Connacht.
Robbie Henshaw Centre Rested this weekend.
Jonathan Joseph Centre Rested by Bath this weekend.
Jared Payne Centre Ankle Injury means he has not played since April 7th
Ben Te'o Centre Strong performance in loss to Newcastle.
Elliot Daly Wing 77 minutes for Wasps in defeat to Harlequins.
George North Wing Not played since 9th April following knock in training
Jack Nowell Wing MotM performance against Northampton
Tommy Seymour Wing Played at FB against Leinster.
Anthony Watson Wing Moved from FB to wing. Perhaps Bath's least effective back at weekend.
Leigh Halfpenny Full back 16 points from the boot (75%) in away win at Bordeaux Begkes
Stuart Hogg Full back Rested this weekend.
Liam Williams Full back Solid 42 minutes on wing aginst Connacht.

Nice, good idea, must have taken some time to do that. I'd do one for the likely AB 23 if I had the time but I suspect we'd have a lot more reds with Kaino, Read, Milner Skudder, Coles, Dagg at least current out for various reasons.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 04 May 2017, 9:34 am

Taylorman wrote:

Nice, good idea, must have taken some time to do that. I'd do one for the likely AB 23 if I had the time but I suspect we'd have a lot more reds with Kaino, Read, Milner Skudder, Coles, Dagg at least current out for various reasons.

I've done one for the top 40 or so NZ prospects https://www.606v2.com/t65644-all-blacks-likely-squad-fitness-form-updates - ran out of time to add in form stuff for a lot of them mind

by the-goon Thu 04 May 2017, 10:00 am

Jack McGrath should be listed as Prop/Fly half

by BamBam Thu 04 May 2017, 10:03 am

the-goon wrote:Jack McGrath should be listed as Prop/Fly half

Add Mako to that category too

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 04 May 2017, 12:16 pm

There are players outside those selected who could do a good job for the Lions but, realistically, only a player called up very early has a chance at the Test side.

The tendency for most coaches has been to prefer someone who has been with squad from the outset, even if it means playing him out of position.

In 2005, Ryan Jones & Simon Easterby made the final Test line-up but both were there before the third tour game (second in NZ). In 2013, Corbisiero was there after the second tour match (first in Australia). In 2001, Martin Corry flew out after Simon Taylor was injured in the first tour match.

In 2009, Ryan Jones flew out to replace Stephen Ferris before the fourth tour match. It's possible someone arriving that late might have got a Test spot but it turned out Jones was also injured. Even so, Croft, Heaslip and Wallace had already been widely tipped as the First Test back row when Jones arrived, and that's what happened.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 04 May 2017, 1:00 pm

Ex-British and Irish Lions wing Shane Williams says it is "hugely important" injured players have "minutes on the field" before the New Zealand tour. (Click here for full story on beeb)

by Geordie Thu 04 May 2017, 1:32 pm

Do injured players have a deadline to reach fitness before being replaced?

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 04 May 2017, 1:46 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Do injured players have a deadline to reach fitness before being replaced?

If you can't walk off the plane unassisted after 24 hours + around the world you're not allowed off? Wink

by Geordie Thu 04 May 2017, 1:49 pm

Does that include copious amounts of Stella?

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 04 May 2017, 2:11 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Does that include copious amounts of Stella?

I understand 52 cans is the record for Sydney-London (Aussie cricketer David Boon)

by Geordie Thu 04 May 2017, 2:16 pm

Yeah ha ha I heard that's the record!

Not bad going. Probably a warm up for him.

by **LondonTiger** Fri 05 May 2017, 12:52 pm

Of the seven injured players listed above:

Lawes & North named to start for Saints vs Quins
Murray named on the bench for Munster
AWJ, Warburton, SOB, Payne not participating this weekend. Realistically this was Payne's last chance to play before the squad leaves, whle the other 3 still have chances via various play-offs.

In passing noticed several players (such as Sexton) seem to be being rested this weekend.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 05 May 2017, 12:54 pm

Apparently Henderson and Best are being rested for Ulster as they have taken knocks. Henderson has been carrying an elbow injury for a number of weeks apparently. I think this is to rest them for the Lions tour, so they should be fine.

by Taylorman Fri 05 May 2017, 11:53 pm

I see Gats is taking a 'close interest' on the state of the injured NZ players where Squire has just joined the long list.

Good to see a coach focussing on things he can't control. Whistle

by Taylorman Sat 06 May 2017, 12:06 am

In saying that our toll is currently not looking good. Ben Smith, Kaino, Read, Miner skudder, Dane Coles... all certain starters if not for their injuries.

Time to call up McCaw with this injury list. Even he would be injury free after the time he's had off...couple of club games and he's back into it. thumbsup

by Gwlad Sat 06 May 2017, 12:18 am

Taylorman wrote:I see Gats is taking a 'close interest' on the state of the injured NZ players where Squire has just joined the long list.

Good to see a coach focussing on things he can't control.

good to see a forum poster taking an interest in things over which he has no influence/control. Rolling Eyes

by Gwlad Sat 06 May 2017, 12:48 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Apparently Henderson and Best are being rested for Ulster as they have taken knocks. Henderson has been carrying an elbow injury for a number of weeks apparently. I think this is to rest them for the Lions tour, so they should be fine.

Injured? Drop them, NOW! (ask majesticimperialman)

by Gwlad Sat 06 May 2017, 12:59 am

LondonTiger wrote:Of the seven injured players listed above:

Lawes & North named to start for Saints vs Quins
Murray named on the bench for Munster
AWJ, Warburton, SOB, Payne not participating this weekend. Realistically this was Payne's last chance to play before the squad leaves, whle the other 3 still have chances via various play-offs.

In passing noticed several players (such as Sexton) seem to be being rested this weekend.

Yes because at this level rest is as important as 'match fitness'. I mean the average rugby player must play 30-40 games a year so his fitness must be a real concern, right maj?

by Taylorman Sat 06 May 2017, 1:41 am

Gwlad wrote:
Taylorman wrote:I see Gats is taking a 'close interest' on the state of the injured NZ players where Squire has just joined the long list.

Good to see a coach focussing on things he can't control.

good to see a forum poster taking an interest in things over which he has no influence/control.

Oh? And every single one of your posts has control or influence over what?

Fried chicken?

by Gwlad Sat 06 May 2017, 2:32 am

Taylorman wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Taylorman wrote:I see Gats is taking a 'close interest' on the state of the injured NZ players where Squire has just joined the long list.

Good to see a coach focussing on things he can't control.

good to see a forum poster taking an interest in things over which he has no influence/control.

Oh? And every single one of your posts has control or influence over what?

Fried chicken?

No, just you Laugh

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 06 May 2017, 9:21 am

Gwlad wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Apparently Henderson and Best are being rested for Ulster as they have taken knocks. Henderson has been carrying an elbow injury for a number of weeks apparently. I think this is to rest them for the Lions tour, so they should be fine.

Injured? Drop them, NOW! (ask majesticimperialman)

Would it not be:

Drop (them) NOW!!!

by **RiscaGame** Sat 06 May 2017, 11:31 am

by majesticimperialman Sat 06 May 2017, 12:03 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Apparently Henderson and Best are being rested for Ulster as they have taken knocks. Henderson has been carrying an elbow injury for a number of weeks apparently. I think this is to rest them for the Lions tour, so they should be fine.

Injured? Drop them, NOW! (ask majesticimperialman)

Would it not be:

Drop (them) NOW!!!

Correct. why take the risk?

by geoff999rugby Sun 07 May 2017, 6:40 pm

All 3 Ulster players will be fine.
If we had been playing for a play off places all 3 would have been in the 23
Payne probably on the bench

by **George Carlin** Mon 08 May 2017, 6:42 am

Any update on Biggar?

by **LondonTiger** Mon 08 May 2017, 9:23 am

Looking to update the table tonight. Any help with who did or did not play in Pro12 would be grateful.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 08 May 2017, 9:29 am

LondonTiger wrote:Looking to update the table tonight. Any help with who did or did not play in Pro12 would be grateful.

Sexton, Henderson, Best & Payne were rested from the Ulster vs Leinster game

by Pot Hale Mon 08 May 2017, 9:41 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Looking to update the table tonight. Any help with who did or did not play in Pro12 would be grateful.

Sexton, Henderson, Best & Payne were rested from the Ulster vs Leinster game

Ah - that explains how Ulster won....

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 08 May 2017, 9:51 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Looking to update the table tonight. Any help with who did or did not play in Pro12 would be grateful.

Sexton, Henderson, Best & Payne were rested from the Ulster vs Leinster game

Ah - that explains how Ulster won....

Ulster defended really well - their scrum and lineout were poor, while Leinster were a bit lateral on attack, too many skip passes from Carberry at 10

by wayne Mon 08 May 2017, 11:34 am

LondonTiger wrote:Looking to update the table tonight. Any help with who did or did not play in Pro12 would be grateful.

LT you are quite welcome to use my judgement on the 3 selected Lions from the Ospreys, Biggar wasn't particularly good against the Scarlets before going off injured, Webb is very fortunate that the selections were made over a month ago, because on recent displays he doesn't deserve it, You obviously know about AWJ, the only one to come out with any credit is Tipuric, it would have been a lot worse without him, tremendous player.

by the-goon Mon 08 May 2017, 12:13 pm

Henshaw was also rested

by **LondonTiger** Fri 19 May 2017, 7:50 am

Apologies, been busy so starting on updates to OP.

Will look to fix after the semis this weekend, but main news is the injury to Ken Owens.

by the-goon Fri 19 May 2017, 9:52 am

Does that open the door for Hartley?

by **LondonTiger** Fri 19 May 2017, 11:08 am

the-goon wrote:Does that open the door for Hartley?

As being discussed elsewhere, probably especially as Gats name-checked him at the post announcement press conference as one of the unlucky ones. It will be dependent on the next fitness check for Owens (scheduled I think next weekend), as even if they win this weekend Scarlets management seem to be saying Owens would be unavailable for a final. Working against Owens is that he is in a specialist position for which bench cover is compulsory, so carrying an injured player is a risk. Of course should Sarries lose to Exeter it may be a risk they are willing to take.

by RuggerRadge2611 Fri 19 May 2017, 1:31 pm

Hartley has probably looked out his travel muzzle and will no doubt be next on the list, however Fraser Brown would get the call from me if I were choosing.

So would Niall Scannall for that matter, or Luke Cowan-Dickie, or Kristian Dacey, or Ross Ford or frankly anyone but Hartley.

by Gooseberry Fri 19 May 2017, 2:11 pm

George Carlin wrote:Any update on Biggar?

Hes still mediocre

by Gwlad Fri 19 May 2017, 7:27 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Any update on Biggar?

Hes still mediocre

He's still a Lion.

by Taylorman Fri 19 May 2017, 8:39 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Any update on Biggar?

Hes still mediocre

He's still a Lion.

A mediocre Lion then? Good to see some things just never change over time... Whistle

by Gwlad Fri 19 May 2017, 9:32 pm

Looked up hubris yet? Laugh

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 20 May 2017, 7:00 am

Jack McGrath's elbow injury might be a concern.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/jack-mcgrath-s-lions-tour-in-jeopardy-after-arm-injury-1.3089834

by robbo277 Sat 20 May 2017, 2:48 pm

Ken Owens and Sean O'Brien didn't play last night, while Jack McGrath went off last night early on. Sexton took a knock but managed to play through.

No issues for Furlong (61 minutes), Henshaw (80), Jonathan Davies (80) or Liam Williams (80).

Jack Nowell, Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Billy Vunipola and Owen Farrell all started today's early semi-final, so fingers crossed they all come through fit.

by robbo277 Sat 20 May 2017, 4:30 pm

Farrell picked up a knock in the first half but played on and did 80. Mako went off for a HIA early in the second half but returned and finished the game. Billy picked up a knock in the second half - he refused treatment and finished the game, but looked like he may have been in a bit of discomfort at times.

No issues for George (45), Itoje (80), Kruis (80) or Nowell (80).

Cole and Daly will be the only Lions in the second semi. Both start.

by robbo277 Sat 20 May 2017, 5:35 pm

Not watching Munster vs Ospreys, but Rhys Webb has pulled out before kick-off with a groin injury. Connor Murray and Alun-Wyn Jones both get much needed starts, as do O'Mahony, Stander, Biggar and Tipuric.

by RuggerRadge2611 Sun 21 May 2017, 1:01 am

AWJ I think is still carrying some kind of injury. He was really poor yesterday. Hope he's not rushing back too soon.

by geoff999rugby Sun 21 May 2017, 8:15 am

I know people are saying door opened for Hartley and it probably will be him but there is someone else who deserves consideration.

Someone I have never been a big fan of but is playing out of his skin in a poor side.

That's Hibbard - has been magnificent this year.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 21 May 2017, 8:17 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:AWJ I think is still carrying some kind of injury. He was really poor yesterday. Hope he's not rushing back too soon.

He was anonymous- compare & contrast yet another mom performance from Launchbury. Headscratch

The Sarries Lions will now have a weeks rest pre tour.

by RuggerRadge2611 Sun 21 May 2017, 10:01 am

Tupiric was anonymous too. The only ospreys Lion getting stuck in was Biggar. Poor show from Tupiric and AWJ.

by geoff999rugby Sun 21 May 2017, 10:18 am

Biggar didn't play well either

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