Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

by **George Carlin** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June - Page 5 Auckla10

Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June - Page 5 Lions_10

Blues v British & Irish Lions
7 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

19 June 1993: Auckland 23 - 18 British & Irish Lions

18 May 1983: Auckland 13 - 12 British & Irish Lions

23 June 1977: Auckland 15 - 34 British & Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Blues
15 Michael Collins
14 Matt Duffie
13 George Moala
12 Sonny Bill Williams
11 Rieko Ioane
10 Stephen Perofeta
09 Augustine Pulu

08 Steven Luatua
07 Blake Gibson
06 Akira Ioane
05 Scott Scrafton
04 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
03 Charlie Faumuina
02 James Parson
01 Ofa Tu'ungafasi

16 Hame Faiva
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Sione Mafileo
19 Patrick Tuipulotu
20 Kara Pryor
21 Sam Nock
22 Ihaia West
23 TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai

British & Irish Lions

Halfpenny; Nowell, Payne, Henshaw, Daly; Biggar, Webb; McGrath, Owens (captain), Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, Stander

Replacements: Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, O'Mahony, Laidlaw, Sexton, L Williams

C. PREVIEW

by Guest Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:42 pm

Scottrf wrote:On that note, forgot to congratulate AWJ and Warburton on their first victory vs Kiwi opposition!

Just them?

by yappysnap Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:52 pm

Them and any other Welsh players?

by Gwlad Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:04 pm

Try Marler, Sinckler, Laidlaw, Joseph, Seymour, Hogg and Watson.

Good job there were 4 winning Lions from Wales on the pitch to steer the team home.

The anti Welsh stuff continues to be really pathetic, this group could beat NZ 3-0 and still, somehow it would be a disgrace because it was Warrenball and there were too many Welshmen. Rolling Eyes

by chris_501 Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:10 pm

I think Owens is in as good a place as Best or George to start the first test, its all down to the quality of their performances in these warm ups.

We saw on Saturday, that a proven top class performer, like Sexton, can play poorly. If Biggar plays incredibly well over his next couple of games, could he push his way into the test 23?

I think this applies to every squad player, they all have the ability to force their way into a test place. I would be delighted to see the likes of Laidlaw, Henderson, Haskell and Te'o all be test players if they are the best performing in their position on the tour.

by robbo277 Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:12 pm

Gwlad wrote:Try Marler, Sinckler, Laidlaw, Joseph, Seymour, Hogg and Watson.

Good job there were 4 winning Lions from Wales on the pitch to steer the team home.

Joseph was part of the England team that beat the All Blacks at Twickenham in 2012.

Watson was part of the England team that beat NZ Under-20s at the JWC in 2013.

Kyle Sinckler was part of the England team that beat the Crusaders in NZ in 2014.

by eirebilly Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:18 pm

I think the side selected for the Blues match is quite good. I think we will see some very positive stuff from the Lions. Gatland is a very clever coach with a desire to win so I don't believe he will utilise this so called 'Gatlandball'.

With Biggar, Henshaw and Payne, the ability to bring the back three into the game is high.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:22 pm

Gwlad wrote:
The anti Welsh stuff continues to be really pathetic, this group could beat NZ 3-0 and still, somehow it would be a disgrace because it was Warrenball and there were too many Welshmen.

Doesn't help when big name Welsh players selected ahead of promising players from other nations perform shockingly bad in the first friendly. Can't remember ever seeing AWJ look so useless, Warburton well we've seen that before though he seems to be a media darling somehow. All may be forgiven if Falatau can keep that form up for the tests though.

On a more serious note, was anyone else worried at how dodgy our scrum looked in the second half with our presumably first choice props and best scrummaging hooker on the field? Hopefully our front row on Wednesday will give a better showing. If Owens wants to jump up in to the test 23 there's very much an opportunity.

by chris_501 Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:23 pm

eirebilly wrote:I think the side selected for the Blues match is quite good. I think we will see some very positive stuff from the Lions. Gatland is a very clever coach with a desire to win so I don't believe he will utilise this so called 'Gatlandball'.

With Biggar, Henshaw and Payne, the ability to bring the back three into the game is high.

I do wonder if we'll see a bit more of a kick and compete tactic too. Of those backs, all have played at FB apart from Webb and Henshaw.

by Gwlad Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:23 pm

Good job there were 4 winning Welsh Lions to steer the team home in a tough match. thumbsup

Very excited about a back line with Henshaw Payne Nowell and Daly.

I think its clear that Murray Farrell is going to be the test 9/10 axis.

by Gwlad Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:24 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
The anti Welsh stuff continues to be really pathetic, this group could beat NZ 3-0 and still, somehow it would be a disgrace because it was Warrenball and there were too many Welshmen.

Doesn't help when big name Welsh players selected ahead of promising players from other nations perform shockingly bad in the first friendly. Can't remember ever seeing AWJ look so useless, Warburton well we've seen that before though he seems to be a media darling somehow. All may be forgiven if Falatau can keep that form up for the tests though.

On a more serious note, was anyone else worried at how dodgy our scrum looked in the second half with our presumably first choice props and best scrummaging hooker on the field? Hopefully our front row on Wednesday will give a better showing. If Owens wants to jump up in to the test 23 there's very much an opportunity.

Maybe, but they're selected so stop whining and support them!!!

by eirebilly Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:30 pm

chris_501 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think the side selected for the Blues match is quite good. I think we will see some very positive stuff from the Lions. Gatland is a very clever coach with a desire to win so I don't believe he will utilise this so called 'Gatlandball'.

With Biggar, Henshaw and Payne, the ability to bring the back three into the game is high.

I do wonder if we'll see a bit more of a kick and compete tactic too. Of those backs, all have played at FB apart from Webb and Henshaw.

100%. I think that the Blues will be bombarded with aerial attacks. I would be more confident with Williams at 15 and Halfpenny on the wing though, feel Williams offers more in counter attacking from the back than Halfpenny.

by chris_501 Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:36 pm

eirebilly wrote:
chris_501 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think the side selected for the Blues match is quite good. I think we will see some very positive stuff from the Lions. Gatland is a very clever coach with a desire to win so I don't believe he will utilise this so called 'Gatlandball'.

With Biggar, Henshaw and Payne, the ability to bring the back three into the game is high.

I do wonder if we'll see a bit more of a kick and compete tactic too. Of those backs, all have played at FB apart from Webb and Henshaw.

100%. I think that the Blues will be bombarded with aerial attacks. I would be more confident with Williams at 15 and Halfpenny on the wing though, feel WiLiam's offers more in counter attacking from the back than Halfpenny.

Williams certainly does offer more attacking wise than Halfpenny, last summer he was fantastic. But, Halfpenny's defensive positioning is incredible. He covers so much ground, and his kicking out of hand can be a real pressure reliever. It's nice that he started to find some good form with Toulon towards the end of the season.

by Gwlad Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:07 pm

Toulon obviously don't agree, seems he has been booted for missing the final.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:23 pm

Gwlad wrote:Toulon obviously don't agree, seems he has been booted for missing the final.

Only rumoured. Sounds like Mourad spitting out his dummy again. It'll all have blown over by the next time Halfpenny lands in France. Well unless the new Toulon coach wants him out which is unlikely.

by king_carlos Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:29 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:On a more serious note, was anyone else worried at how dodgy our scrum looked in the second half with our presumably first choice props and best scrummaging hooker on the field? Hopefully our front row on Wednesday will give a better showing. If Owens wants to jump up in to the test 23 there's very much an opportunity.

I'll be interested to see what difference Luke McGrath makes coming in. He's been a bull in the scrum this season and further back. Mako has improved hugely but isn't a prop to get on top of the opposition, though he has shown himself very capable of using his sheer strength to get the scrum moving forward if his tight head gets on top as well.

I also wouldn't underestimate the effect of the second row on the scrum either. If two players look as ineffectual (whether it be match fitness, jet lag, etc) in the loose as AWJ and Henderson did against the NZ BaaBaas then their addition to the scrum probably won't be much more impressive on the day.

Jamie George is a worry though. He looked absolutely knackered in Sarries knockout games and if he is suffering from burn-out then a Lions tour with this schedule isn't what he needs. A below par George isn't what the Lions need either given how powerful a scrummager, solid a line-out operator and influential a carrier he has shown himself to be.

by SamTheQuin Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:40 pm

Agree with you king_carlos Sarries players don't seem to have had a rest for seasons now, Mako and Billy Vunipola were both looking very sharp but both have suffered with injuries this season. Would say that Itoje hasn't had a great season compared to last either. Too much rugby?

by king_carlos Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:13 pm

SamTheQuin wrote:Agree with you king_carlos Sarries players don't seem to have had a rest for seasons now, Mako and Billy Vunipola were both looking very sharp but both have suffered with injuries this season. Would say that Itoje hasn't had a great season compared to last either. Too much rugby?

If you look at minutes played for Sarries then it's actually remarkable how sparingly they use their England stars. The rotation policy and depth they've developed allows them to bring players in and out in a seamless manner, it's very impressive. So straight up minutes played shouldn't be an issue for them compared to others.

Whether the non-stop nature of their seasons and huge intensity of the big internationals and knock-out games they play have inevitably taken their toll is another question.

by Gwlad Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:04 am

Webb, Biggar Henshaw...pretty obvious what Gatland's thinking.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:51 am

So the Blues are apparently doing their own haka. Rolling Eyes

by munkian Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:56 am

LondonTiger wrote:
munkian wrote:Does anyone else have an issue with Ken Owens being a mid week Captain ?

Some of the comments I've seen on the official Lions posts are laughable.

His team just won the Pro12 with two great away wins in Ireland ffs.

I can't think of a hooker in better form in the UK/Ireland - Jamie George doesn't even start for England so lacks the experience IMHO

To be fair, Owens did not really contribute to those play-off wins. I have no problem with him as midweek captain - but could it mean he is now not a front runner for the test berth?

Fair enough but he helped get his team there in the first place.

He would be my first choice for test birth anyway - what are the realistic alternatives ?

by **RDW** Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:59 am

George Carlin wrote:So the Blues are apparently doing their own haka.

The Lions will end up doing one at this rate - might as well since everyone else is doing one!

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:03 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:So the Blues are apparently doing their own haka.

The Lions will end up doing one at this rate - might as well since everyone else is doing one!

Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June - Page 5 Morris11

by munkian Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:13 am

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:So the Blues are apparently doing their own haka.

The Lions will end up doing one at this rate - might as well since everyone else is doing one!

Still better than this

by kingelderfield Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:02 pm

I've just got off the blower with contacts in Ozy and I'm delighted to announce that I believe I have solved the issue of cultural imbalance afflicting our friends in Kiwiland. Oh yes indeed for a small fee and a supply of oral lubricants, I have purchased the talents of Sir Lesley Paterson no less.
Sir Lesley will from now on front up to all the prearranged cultural dances and fetes and even agreed to join in with the ladies.
Never fear Sir Lesley is here is the strap line. So who says rugby fans don't give a monkey's when it comes to distracting off the field irrelevances?

by geoff999rugby Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:29 pm

chris_501 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I think the side selected for the Blues match is quite good. I think we will see some very positive stuff from the Lions. Gatland is a very clever coach with a desire to win so I don't believe he will utilise this so called 'Gatlandball'.

With Biggar, Henshaw and Payne, the ability to bring the back three into the game is high.

I do wonder if we'll see a bit more of a kick and compete tactic too. Of those backs, all have played at FB apart from Webb and Henshaw.

Henshaw has played loads of games at 15 for Connacht

by BamBam Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:30 pm

munkian wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
munkian wrote:Does anyone else have an issue with Ken Owens being a mid week Captain ?

Some of the comments I've seen on the official Lions posts are laughable.

His team just won the Pro12 with two great away wins in Ireland ffs.

I can't think of a hooker in better form in the UK/Ireland - Jamie George doesn't even start for England so lacks the experience IMHO

To be fair, Owens did not really contribute to those play-off wins. I have no problem with him as midweek captain - but could it mean he is now not a front runner for the test berth?

Fair enough but he helped get his team there in the first place.

He would be my first choice for test birth anyway - what are the realistic alternatives ?

The other two hookers in the squad ..

by munkian Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:48 pm

BamBam wrote:
munkian wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
munkian wrote:Does anyone else have an issue with Ken Owens being a mid week Captain ?

Some of the comments I've seen on the official Lions posts are laughable.

His team just won the Pro12 with two great away wins in Ireland ffs.

I can't think of a hooker in better form in the UK/Ireland - Jamie George doesn't even start for England so lacks the experience IMHO

To be fair, Owens did not really contribute to those play-off wins. I have no problem with him as midweek captain - but could it mean he is now not a front runner for the test berth?

Fair enough but he helped get his team there in the first place.

He would be my first choice for test birth anyway - what are the realistic alternatives ?

The other two hookers in the squad ..

One who can't get a start for his country and the other who seems to be in his previous run of Lions form.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:50 pm

Being behind hartley is no bad thing.

by BamBam Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:51 pm

I'm sure beshocked will be along shortly .. but on this one I agree with him

George is easily good enough to prove himself the best hooker on this tour if he's given the same game time as the rest

by aucklandlaurie Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:52 pm

George Carlin wrote:So the Blues are apparently doing their own haka.

This is going way too far, dont agree with it one little bit.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:53 pm

True. Best started off well though. More turnovers than the starting back row combined. If owens offers a good impact tomorrow we're ok at hooker.

by munkian Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:57 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:True. Best started off well though. More turnovers than the starting back row combined. If owens offers a good impact tomorrow we're ok at hooker.

Not calling you a liar but do you have the stats to back this up ? I can't seem to find any comprehensive ones on any site.

by TightHEAD Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:01 pm

Maybe the reasoning behind the apparent lack of interest in playing on Saturday was because they are fed up already of having to watch the Haka everywhere they go.

Only the All Blacks should do it and maybe a welcoming Haka when we first get off the plane, that's it.

Enough is enough already.......

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:07 pm

I don't off hand munkian. He got 3. Don't remember either flanker getting one. Think faletau did.

by munkian Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't off hand munkian. He got 3. Don't remember either flanker getting one. Think faletau did.

Fair enough. The breakdown was a free for all mind - ref constantly in the way and letting people just dive over the top and take out men beyond the ruck.

I imagine tomorrow's 'proper' game will have more structure.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:14 pm

True enough.

by Scottrf Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:15 pm

I can't remember the last game I watched where rucks weren't a mess.

by munkian Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:17 pm

Scottrf wrote:I can't remember the last game I watched where rucks weren't a mess.

They are better reffed in the NH.

by Cyril Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:19 pm

Pascal Gaüzère is the ref for this one and somebody has been at his wikipedia page. Who has he annoyed?

He is the only blind referee in the world. He finds himself thanks to the odor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_Ga%C3%BCz%C3%A8re

by TightHEAD Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:21 pm

Brilliant

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:23 pm

Cyril wrote:Pascal Gaüzère is the ref for this one and somebody has been at his wikipedia page. Who has he annoyed?

He is the only blind referee in the world. He finds himself thanks to the odor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_Ga%C3%BCz%C3%A8re

I guess we'll see in the morning ...

(Well, some will. I'll be at work Sad

)

by munkian Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:26 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Cyril wrote:Pascal Gaüzère is the ref for this one and somebody has been at his wikipedia page. Who has he annoyed?

He is the only blind referee in the world. He finds himself thanks to the odor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_Ga%C3%BCz%C3%A8re

I guess we'll see in the morning ...

(Well, some will. I'll be at work )

God bless SkyGo Wink

by geoff999rugby Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:03 pm

munkian wrote:
BamBam wrote:
munkian wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
munkian wrote:Does anyone else have an issue with Ken Owens being a mid week Captain ?

Some of the comments I've seen on the official Lions posts are laughable.

His team just won the Pro12 with two great away wins in Ireland ffs.

I can't think of a hooker in better form in the UK/Ireland - Jamie George doesn't even start for England so lacks the experience IMHO

To be fair, Owens did not really contribute to those play-off wins. I have no problem with him as midweek captain - but could it mean he is now not a front runner for the test berth?

Fair enough but he helped get his team there in the first place.

He would be my first choice for test birth anyway - what are the realistic alternatives ?

The other two hookers in the squad ..

One who can't get a start for his country and the other who seems to be in his previous run of Lions form.

I think you will find Best had a good game.

One missed throw but in the first half he was the Lions best player at the breakdown - Warburton and Moriarity were missing in action at the breakdown in that half

by cascough Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:13 pm

eirebilly wrote:Is Ken Owens the midweek captain or just captain for this game?

I personally believe that isn't a thing anymore. The midweek team or "dirt trackers" are just a bit of misty eyed romanticism if you ask me. The tours aren't long enough for that anymore and given the congestion of the domestic calendar we only had a full squad 3 days before the first game.

Look at it this way. Assuming he wont want to play his test starters against the Chiefs, Gatland has 5 games to play with. Gatland has said that the first 3 games will be used to make sure everyone gets a start. Now even if he wanted one of those to be more possibles than probables, his hands were tied by the domestic schedule and he has had to heavily factor in how long players have been with the squad. For me, that takes the first midweek game out of the equation when it comes to establishing a "midweek side".

Most will have only one start to their name, and with only 2 games remaining to try out combinations, I'd be surprised if that Tuesday game (Highlanders) isn't very different to the team we will have seen against the Blues and will see against the Chiefs.

For me the only truly "midweek team" will be the Chiefs game. Simply because they are, at that stage, unlikely to be picked for the first test. I also think it's very difficult to call whether the Hurricanes game will be mostly made up of the players that played against the Chiefs. Much will depend on how the first test went, ie did we lose and a few had stinkers, and also how the Chiefs game went, ie did we win and a few had stormers.

All in all, I think there will be such a variance in personnel across the midweek teams (or indeed all the matchday squads), that you can't truly make the traditional differentiation between the "midweek team" and the "test team".

by geoff999rugby Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:38 pm

Wise words.

I also thing that everyone will get two decent cracks at it so I would rule no one out completely yet, although, obviously some have a lot to prove in their second game after the car crash against the Barbarians.

I do think some are pencilled in as impact subs for the tests - notably Sinklar and George, possibly SOB, but nothing set in stone yet.

by The Great Aukster Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:53 pm

The players who were in the first game and are involved again now in the second game are at a massive disadvantage to the rest of the squad so: Webb, Tipuric, Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, Laidlaw and Sexton are almost excluded now from Test starting selection.

They have to cope with:
acclimatising to a different world - summer to winter, daylight etc.
dealing with all the faff of the media feeding frenzy
having two games inside a week of arrival
the short turnaround from Saturday physically
having no time from Saturday to improve set plays with different pods
the negative reaction to their performance
knowing they are unlikely to be in the Crusaders mix (except Webb) and therefore unlikely to make the Maori game which will undoubtedly be a test team run out.
The Blues are likely to beat the Lions so the players involved in the first two games even off the bench are tainted by association.

This unfairness to the players is yet another reason why the schedule is ridiculous and so injurious to NH rugby.

by munkian Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:10 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:The players who were in the first game and are involved again now in the second game are at a massive disadvantage to the rest of the squad so: Webb, Tipuric, Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, Laidlaw and Sexton are almost excluded now from Test starting selection.

They have to cope with:
acclimatising to a different world - summer to winter, daylight etc.
dealing with all the faff of the media feeding frenzy
having two games inside a week of arrival
the short turnaround from Saturday physically
having no time from Saturday to improve set plays with different pods
the negative reaction to their performance
knowing they are unlikely to be in the Crusaders mix (except Webb) and therefore unlikely to make the Maori game which will undoubtedly be a test team run out.
The Blues are likely to beat the Lions so the players involved in the first two games even off the bench are tainted by association.

This unfairness to the players is yet another reason why the schedule is ridiculous and so injurious to NH rugby.

British Summer is no different to NZ Winter at the moment mind Shocked

by majesticimperialman Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:47 pm

The players who were in the first game and are involved again now in the second game are at a massive disadvantage to the rest of the squad so: Webb, Tipuric, Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, Laidlaw and Sexton are almost excluded now from Test starting selection.

So every one else who played in the first game is a "TEST" starter? Including AWJ. Oh well picard

.

by robbo277 Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:25 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:The players who were in the first game and are involved again now in the second game are at a massive disadvantage to the rest of the squad so: Webb, Tipuric, Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, Laidlaw and Sexton are almost excluded now from Test starting selection.

They have to cope with:
acclimatising to a different world - summer to winter, daylight etc.
dealing with all the faff of the media feeding frenzy
having two games inside a week of arrival
the short turnaround from Saturday physically
having no time from Saturday to improve set plays with different pods
the negative reaction to their performance
knowing they are unlikely to be in the Crusaders mix (except Webb) and therefore unlikely to make the Maori game which will undoubtedly be a test team run out.
The Blues are likely to beat the Lions so the players involved in the first two games even off the bench are tainted by association.

This unfairness to the players is yet another reason why the schedule is ridiculous and so injurious to NH rugby.

Not everyone starts a Lions tour on an even footing regardless. Lions selection isn't done from within a tour bubble, coaches already have opinions on players they'll be looking to confirm.

If you get two chances in the opening week to shine, then you take them.

You won't play against the Crusaders, but you might play next Wednesday or again on the Sunday against the Maori. Whichever you get, that will be your last chance to push a claim for a test spot.

Take the first two games (likely one start and one sub appearance) as a warm-up or a hit-out. Run your legs off, make your hits, get stuck in. Then the third game is your chance to really showcase yourself.

by geoff999rugby Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:42 pm

Aukster don't often say this but I believe your conclusion is nonsense Sorry

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