Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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Chiefs v British & Irish Lions
20 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

1993-06-29 
Waikato 38 - 10 British and Irish Lions

1983-07-12
Waikato 13 - 40 British and Irish Lions

1977-07-16
Waikato 13 - 18 British and Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Chiefs
1. Siegfried Fisi'ihoi (24)
2. Liam Polwart (2)
3. Nepo Laulala (11)
4. Dominic Bird (25)
5. Michael Allardice (20)
6. Mitchell Brown (14)
7. Lachlan Boshier (15)
8. Tom Sanders (19)

9. Finlay Christie (6)
10. Stephen Donald (c) (100)
11. Solomon Alaimalo (6)
12. Johnny Faauli (5)
13. Tim Nanai-Williams (82)
14. Toni Pulu (21)
15. Shaun Stevenson (21)

16. Hika Elliot (116)
17. Aidan Ross (2)
18. Atu Moli (24)
19. Liam Messam (159)
20. Mitchell Karpik (5)
21. Jonathan Taumateine (6)
22. Luteru Laulala (0)
23. Chase Tiatia (0)

British & Irish Lions
15. Liam Williams
14. Jack Nowell
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Elliot Daly
10. Dan Biggar
9. Greig Laidlaw

8. CJ Stander
7. Justin Tipuric
6. James Haskell
5. Courtney Lawes
4. Iain Henderson
3. Dan Cole
2. Rory Best (captain)
1. Joe Marler

16. Kristian Dacey
17. Allan Dell
18. Tomas Francis
19. Cory Hill
20. Alun Wyn Jones
21. Gareth Davies
22. Finn Russell
23. Tommy Seymour

C. PREVIEW

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:Gatland just re-iterating to the called up players that they are second class players by not giving any of them a chance off the bench. What you would have imagined I guess.

A shame given how big a lead we now have - even giving Funn Russell 20 minutes would have been a benefit.

He will give them all 5 mins against the Hurricanes for being good sports and turning up!

ebop wrote:Pretty much all he's done

Are you actually watching the game ?

He has done this on more than one occasion, also, when he is running into contact he is still going forwards.

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:Gatland just re-iterating to the called up players that they are second class players by not giving any of them a chance off the bench. What you would have imagined I guess.

A shame given how big a lead we now have - even giving Funn Russell 20 minutes would have been a benefit.

He will give them all 5 mins against the Hurricanes for being good sports and turning up!

28 points up - why not at least bring them on to rest the 'real' squad players?

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:Gatland just re-iterating to the called up players that they are second class players by not giving any of them a chance off the bench. What you would have imagined I guess.

A shame given how big a lead we now have - even giving Funn Russell 20 minutes would have been a benefit.

He will give them all 5 mins against the Hurricanes for being good sports and turning up!

FFS.

The Lions biggest win of the tour and still the haters are on here. Only on V2.

A number of players who have been poor so far have had a good day:

Best, Cole, Henderson, Haskell, Nowell, Williams for example.

However the quality of opposition must be taken into account.

Well played Lions.

Cheers for making sure the Crusaders aren't the only Super Rugby side to lose to you - I was nervous (Sorry ebop, looks like we both get to take jibes from the Blues/Landers' fans)

Has Alun-Wyn made it off the bench? If not, I'd suggest he's being saved to bench for the tests.

Maybe Dacey is too, who knows with Gatland?

Following on BBC who are given as much time to twitter comments as they are to actual coverage, which isn't the best, but good to see the Lions finally showing up over the last two games. Hopefully they can bring that into the test series.

robbo277 wrote:Has Alun-Wyn made it off the bench? If not, I'd suggest he's being saved to bench for the tests.

Yes he's played a while.

LordDowlais wrote:

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:Gatland just re-iterating to the called up players that they are second class players by not giving any of them a chance off the bench. What you would have imagined I guess.

A shame given how big a lead we now have - even giving Funn Russell 20 minutes would have been a benefit.

He will give them all 5 mins against the Hurricanes for being good sports and turning up!

FFS.

The Lions biggest win of the tour and still the haters are on here. Only on V2.

I just feel sorry for those players, what is the point of them being there if they are not going to be allowed to play. Any bad feeling that Gatland gets from the fans is entirely self inflicted.

As great as it is to beat any Super Rugby side, have you seen the players they're missing because of the ABs/Maori call ups? If we didn't tank them by 30 points I'd have been stunned

Missing players

Kane Hames, Nathan Harris, Brodie Retallick, Sam Cane, Michael Leitch, Mitchell Karpik, Tawarra Kerr Barlow, Brad Weber, Aaron Cruden, Anton Leinert Brown, Charlie Ngatai, James Lowe and Damian Mckenzie

Anything within 30 points would have been very poor from the Lions, regardless of what jokers Gatland put on the bench

LordDowlais wrote:

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:Gatland just re-iterating to the called up players that they are second class players by not giving any of them a chance off the bench. What you would have imagined I guess.

A shame given how big a lead we now have - even giving Funn Russell 20 minutes would have been a benefit.

He will give them all 5 mins against the Hurricanes for being good sports and turning up!

FFS.

The Lions biggest win of the tour and still the haters are on here. Only on V2.

I'm not that bothered if Finn doesn't get on.

I was kind of hoping he was there on merit instead of geographical convenience but it seems he is cannon fodder like all the rest.

So the geographical 6 aren't real Lions. They’re not quite Lion enough. They’re semi-Lion. They're quasi-Lion. They’re the margarine of Lions. They’re the Diet Coke of Lions, just one calorie, not Lion enough

Are the Chiefs really this poor or have the Lions played well?

Good to see Nowell getting some tries. We don't want 'Penalty' to be the highest scorer on tour

LondonTiger wrote:A number of players who have been poor so far have had a good day:

Best, Cole, Henderson, Haskell, Nowell, Williams for example.

However the quality of opposition must be taken into account.

But if they've all run 80 minutes today, you'd think they won't play Saturday.

May have enhanced their claims for Tests 2 and 3, especially if there are injuries or poor performances in the first test.

robbo277 wrote:Has Alun-Wyn made it off the bench? If not, I'd suggest he's being saved to bench for the tests.

AWJ came on when Lawes had an HIA - about 4 minutes.


Daly, who was replaced by Seymour, in turn replaces Payne. As other replacements are still available - ie all the call-ups, I do not think that is allowed in the laws?

BigGee wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:Gatland just re-iterating to the called up players that they are second class players by not giving any of them a chance off the bench. What you would have imagined I guess.

A shame given how big a lead we now have - even giving Funn Russell 20 minutes would have been a benefit.

He will give them all 5 mins against the Hurricanes for being good sports and turning up!

FFS.

The Lions biggest win of the tour and still the haters are on here. Only on V2.

I just feel sorry for those players, what is the point of them being there if they are not going to be allowed to play. Any bad feeling that Gatland gets from the fans is entirely self inflicted.

If he was never going to sub off the starting 15 why call up these players in the first place. Other than injury any test players on the bench wouldn't have got on anyway.

robbo277 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:A number of players who have been poor so far have had a good day:

Best, Cole, Henderson, Haskell, Nowell, Williams for example.

However the quality of opposition must be taken into account.

But if they've all run 80 minutes today, you'd think they won't play Saturday.

May have enhanced their claims for Tests 2 and 3, especially if there are injuries or poor performances in the first test.

Others have been good as well, but those are the ones who have shown huge improvement against previous form. Agree will not be in contention for T1, some of this team may be in contention for T2.

Good win Lions, well done

Cyril wrote:Are the Chiefs really this poor or have the Lions played well?

Good to see Nowell getting some tries. We don't want 'Penalty' to be the highest scorer on tour

This isn't the Chiefs. There's like 1 Chiefs starter playing.

ebop wrote:I'm surprised you say that Tighthead as that was worse than the accidental hit by Cane on the Irish guy in Dublin. Go figure.

Was just as bad as his deliberate hit on Henshaw though

Williams and Daly would have been placed pretty well for a bench spot. Guess that's Joseph now but more hopefully davies.

Important win - job done

LondonTiger wrote:A number of players who have been poor so far have had a good day:

Best, Cole, Henderson, Haskell, Nowell, Williams for example.

However the quality of opposition must be taken into account.

Henderson had a poor game against the Barbarians but has gotten better every game since

Scottrf wrote:

Cyril wrote:Are the Chiefs really this poor or have the Lions played well?

Good to see Nowell getting some tries. We don't want 'Penalty' to be the highest scorer on tour

This isn't the Chiefs. There's like 1 Chiefs starter playing.

Ah, cheers. Not so great then. Not that it makes a lot of difference.

At least some of the proud 'Geographically Well-Placed' Lions can put this in their scrap-book for when they go back to their pub teams.

LondonTiger wrote:

robbo277 wrote:Has Alun-Wyn made it off the bench? If not, I'd suggest he's being saved to bench for the tests.

AWJ came on when Lawes had an HIA - about 4 minutes.


Daly, who was replaced by Seymour, in turn replaces Payne. As other replacements are still available - ie all the call-ups, I do not think that is allowed in the laws?

Is there anything in the laws, or is it normally a competition regulation? And as there is no competition (e.g. it's not a test match or a league game), there are none?

Or is it HIA/blood, in which case they can bring on a player substituted for tactical reasons?

Gatland seems determined not to give his call-ups Lions numbers. Not sure how i feel on that one. Definitely didn't agree with them being called-up, and this negates their call-ups somewhat, but it's a strange turn of events to leave them as unused subs.

Noting that, does Dell get credited an appearance for featuring in Marler's sin-bin period?

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Well played Lions.

Cheers for making sure the Crusaders aren't the only Super Rugby side to lose to you - I was nervous (Sorry ebop, looks like we both get to take jibes from the Blues/Landers' fans)

Lol, yeah us Chiefs are in good company, the Canes will no doubt join us in all probability though. To be fair the Lions should be beating all SR sides. Lions defence by the dirt trackers and test team is humming.

robbo277 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

robbo277 wrote:Has Alun-Wyn made it off the bench? If not, I'd suggest he's being saved to bench for the tests.

AWJ came on when Lawes had an HIA - about 4 minutes.


Daly, who was replaced by Seymour, in turn replaces Payne. As other replacements are still available - ie all the call-ups, I do not think that is allowed in the laws?

Is there anything in the laws, or is it normally a competition regulation? And as there is no competition (e.g. it's not a test match or a league game), there are none?

Or is it HIA/blood, in which case they can bring on a player substituted for tactical reasons?

Gatland seems determined not to give his call-ups Lions numbers. Not sure how i feel on that one. Definitely didn't agree with them being called-up, and this negates their call-ups somewhat, but it's a strange turn of events to leave them as unused subs.

Noting that, does Dell get credited an appearance for featuring in Marler's sin-bin period?

Yes

Cyril wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Cyril wrote:Are the Chiefs really this poor or have the Lions played well?

Good to see Nowell getting some tries. We don't want 'Penalty' to be the highest scorer on tour

This isn't the Chiefs. There's like 1 Chiefs starter playing.

Ah, cheers. Not so great then. Not that it makes a lot of difference.

At least some of the proud 'Geographically Well-Placed' Lions can put this in their scrap-book for when they go back to their pub teams.

Pretty Shabby from Gatland, with the game in the bag why not give them a 15 minute run out? Granted the bulk of the geographically convenient Lions are mediocre but after his performances against Italy and Australia Russell deserved a chance to show what he can do.

Oh well.

Allan Dell British and Irish Lion... I'll let that one sink in.

Good win.

How bad must those cannon fodder players be feeling right now.

Cyril wrote:Are the Chiefs really this poor or have the Lions played well?

Good to see Nowell getting some tries. We don't want 'Penalty' to be the highest scorer on tour

ha yes. Not surprised Nowell has scored a few tries. Great player.

Great to see the Lions humming. I think a lot of people underestimate NH rugby. Two sides in the top three in the world and Scotland in 5th now(?).

I reckon the Lions will win one test. Gatland is doing a good job so far.

7 tries conceded in 6 games, not bad!

If we keep that ratio up for the rest of the tour we should win.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

Noting that, does Dell get credited an appearance for featuring in Marler's sin-bin period?

Yes

Thanks, I thought so.

Will be interesting to see where he goes next week. Is he going to give his midweekers another 80 minute shift? Is he going to use more test players on the bench? Or is he going to give the call-ups some time, maybe after the furore around them has died down a bit?

Maybe if he has eyes on moving a player into the test squad, he'd put the guy most likely to be replaced on the midweek bench. E.g. if he decides he might want to replace Ken Owens in the test squad with Rory Best, he would move Owens onto the midweek bench so he could split their time, have a look at both and make a final call. It would give him two fresh options and a final audition for both players.

Scottrf wrote:7 tries conceded in 6 games, not bad!

If we keep that ratio up for the rest of the tour we should win.

I've always said the problem with NZ-based teams is that they don't score enough tries...

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Cyril wrote:Are the Chiefs really this poor or have the Lions played well?

Good to see Nowell getting some tries. We don't want 'Penalty' to be the highest scorer on tour

This isn't the Chiefs. There's like 1 Chiefs starter playing.

Ah, cheers. Not so great then. Not that it makes a lot of difference.

At least some of the proud 'Geographically Well-Placed' Lions can put this in their scrap-book for when they go back to their pub teams.

Pretty Shabby from Gatland, with the game in the bag why not give them a 15 minute run out? Granted the bulk of the geographically convenient Lions are mediocre but after his performances against Italy and Australia Russell deserved a chance to show what he can do.

Oh well.

Allan Dell British and Irish Lion... I'll let that one sink in.

Today has showed that one area where the Lions are looking very strong is outside half with 3 players looking on good form.

If Russell was playing that well as a 13 or 15 then possibly he may force his way in to the reckoning, but he isn't really needed unless there is an injury in the dirt trackers.

robbo277 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:7 tries conceded in 6 games, not bad!

If we keep that ratio up for the rest of the tour we should win.

I've always said the problem with NZ-based teams is that they don't score enough tries...

7 tries conceded = Good stat

Losing to two SR sides = Bad stat

EST wrote:Good win.

How bad must those cannon fodder players be feeling right now.  

To say this Lions tour has been an emotional roller coaster so far would be an understatement.

Absolutely raging at the initial selection.
Even more fuming at Gatland's hilarious comment about I wasn't thinking about nationalities.
Devestation for Youngs and Billy V
Happy for Laidlaw
Haskell?
Then the tour departed
Then our shattered players struggle against the NZ part timers
Get battered by the Blues and that amazing try and offload from sonny bill
Then beat the Crusaders
However Hogg is injured by Murray
Then the highlanders beat us
and then it all takes a turn for the surreal
a bunch of undeserving nobodies get called in  
and Finn Russell, the form 10 in the NH at the moment...
and then Gatland selects them for the bench against the chiefs  
we win the game!!    
but he decides they aren't even worthy of an appearance...    

So Finn Russell, who really should have toured from the start, watches from the sidelines as Alan Dell becomes Lion      

I think that about sums up my feelings. I want the Lions to do well but jeez Gatland is a plank.

Jeez you're a moaner, Radge!

ebop wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:7 tries conceded in 6 games, not bad!

If we keep that ratio up for the rest of the tour we should win.

I've always said the problem with NZ-based teams is that they don't score enough tries...

7 tries conceded = Good stat

Losing to two SR sides = Bad stat

Early attacking woes cost us against SR sides.

Lions have hit the 30 point mark in the last two games which is positive - we'll need at least that many points to beat ABs.

Will obviously be more difficult to score that many against the ABs themselves, but it's good that we're on the right track at least.

Griff wrote:Jeez you're a moaner, Radge!

Yeah, I suppose I am.

But put yourself in the position of those called up. Not only have you had all manner of punters from every denomination say that you shouldn't be there, you are devaluing the jersey etc.

Then the buffoon that put you in that position doesn't even have the balls to put you on the pitch when the game is in the bag.

Ryan Grant never got over his "call up" in 2013. I seriously hope that these players don't get their confidence knocked in the same way.

I know. This place is like a kids playground at times.

We won today, yet people are still finding excuses to moan.

Personally I am glad the Welsh players were not picked today, it means they still have a chance of playing for Wales against Samoa on Friday if they are allowed.

Chiefs are also the 4th opposition team of 6 that have failed to score in the second half.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Griff wrote:Jeez you're a moaner, Radge!

Yeah, I suppose I am.

But put yourself in the position of those called up. Not only have you had all manner of punters from every denomination say that you shouldn't be there, you are devaluing the jersey etc.

Then the buffoon that put you in that position doesn't even have the balls to put you on the pitch when the game is in the bag.

Ryan Grant never got over his "call up" in 2013. I seriously hope that these players don't get their confidence knocked in the same way.

Well get on tw@tter and tell those ignoramuses to shut up then.

Still blaming Gatland for Grants fall from grace

LordDowlais wrote:I know. This place is like a kids playground at times.

We won today, yet people are still finding excuses to moan.

Personally I am glad the Welsh players were not picked today, it means they still have a chance of playing for Wales against Samoa on Friday if they are allowed.

That's a big ask to fly back out there. I imagine they'll stay with the Lions squad for a couple more weeks.

I hope Russel gets on a plane to play the Scotland next game.

What a complete waste of time for one of the form 10s in the world at the moment

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

EST wrote:Good win.

How bad must those cannon fodder players be feeling right now.  

To say this Lions tour has been an emotional roller coaster so far would be an understatement.

Absolutely raging at the initial selection.
Even more fuming at Gatland's hilarious comment about I wasn't thinking about nationalities.
Devestation for Youngs and Billy V
Happy for Laidlaw
Haskell?
Then the tour departed
Then our shattered players struggle against the NZ part timers
Get battered by the Blues and that amazing try and offload from sonny bill
Then beat the Crusaders
However Hogg is injured by Murray
Then the highlanders beat us
and then it all takes a turn for the surreal
a bunch of undeserving nobodies get called in  
and Finn Russell, the form 10 in the NH at the moment...
and then Gatland selects them for the bench against the chiefs  
we win the game!!    
but he decides they aren't even worthy of an appearance...    

So Finn Russell, who really should have toured from the start, watches from the sidelines as Alan Dell becomes Lion      

I think that about sums up my feelings. I want the Lions to do well but jeez Gatland is a plank.

I think he might be sheltering them from public backlash. I wouldn't be surprised to see them all get run-outs next week.

I think the whole thing is a farce, but there is an interesting article in the telegraph about why the call-ups were made in the first place: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/19/sweary-conversation-2013-prompted-lions-controversial-call-ups/

I still think they should have called up the best players available, and if that means calling up players a week earlier, then that's what they should have done.

What if they try to get push Rory Best 80 minutes again against the Hurricanes and he breaks down? You've then got Dacey as first reserve for a test against NZ. When you could have had Hartley, Ford or Brown there.

Someone on the BBC article said it wouldn't be fitting for a player like Launchbury to miss a full international to sit on the bench for the Lions in midweek. It's the Lions, of course it would have been.

marty2086 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:A number of players who have been poor so far have had a good day:

Best, Cole, Henderson, Haskell, Nowell, Williams for example.

However the quality of opposition must be taken into account.

Henderson had a poor game against the Barbarians but has gotten better every game since

Would add Daly to that list. Gatty will no doubt start North but Daly looks in far better form - and his big boot for long range penos

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Griff wrote:Jeez you're a moaner, Radge!

Yeah, I suppose I am.

But put yourself in the position of those called up. Not only have you had all manner of punters from every denomination say that you shouldn't be there, you are devaluing the jersey etc.

Then the buffoon that put you in that position doesn't even have the balls to put you on the pitch when the game is in the bag.

Ryan Grant never got over his "call up" in 2013. I seriously hope that these players don't get their confidence knocked in the same way.

Well it depends how it was sold to them. If they were told explicitly that they're bench cover and there was a good chance they wouldn't come on unless there were injuries, then they knewthe position. And with the rumours that some players turned down the chance, then it sounds like Gatland did make this clear to them from the outset. If they know the score from the outset then they can't be too ticked off if it plays out to be that way. They were helping out, answered the call, and played a part (no matter how small). If I was called up then of course I'd want to get on the pitch. But if I knew I was just cover for one game then I'd accept that it was only an outside shot of getting game time.

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I know. This place is like a kids playground at times.

We won today, yet people are still finding excuses to moan.

Personally I am glad the Welsh players were not picked today, it means they still have a chance of playing for Wales against Samoa on Friday if they are allowed.

That's a big ask to fly back out there. I imagine they'll stay with the Lions squad for a couple more weeks.

Its 4 hours on a plane, not a big ask and Gatland said they'll be with the squad for a week I take it he will want them for next week too

brennomac wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:A number of players who have been poor so far have had a good day:

Best, Cole, Henderson, Haskell, Nowell, Williams for example.

However the quality of opposition must be taken into account.

Henderson had a poor game against the Barbarians but has gotten better every game since

Would add Daly to that list.  Gatty will no doubt start North but Daly looks in far better form - and his big boot for long range penos

Doesn't Halfpenny get bitched at for having a big boot? Not sure what more Daly can offer. I wouldn't start North, it would either be Williams or Seymour over him.

marty2086 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I know. This place is like a kids playground at times.

We won today, yet people are still finding excuses to moan.

Personally I am glad the Welsh players were not picked today, it means they still have a chance of playing for Wales against Samoa on Friday if they are allowed.

That's a big ask to fly back out there. I imagine they'll stay with the Lions squad for a couple more weeks.

Its 4 hours on a plane, not a big ask and Gatland said they'll be with the squad for a week I take it he will want them for next week too

But they've also missed training with the Wales team and training is something they need to do a lot of together if the Tonga game is anything to go by. If they fly back to Apia then this just seems like a waste of time.

brennomac wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:A number of players who have been poor so far have had a good day:

Best, Cole, Henderson, Haskell, Nowell, Williams for example.

However the quality of opposition must be taken into account.

Henderson had a poor game against the Barbarians but has gotten better every game since

Would add Daly to that list.  Gatty will no doubt start North but Daly looks in far better form - and his big boot for long range penos

It all comes down to game plan though, which is interesting when they say they are holding back some things