Ulster Rugby 2017-18

by marty2086 Wed 05 Jul 2017, 10:42 am

First topic message reminder :

Director of Rugby Les Kiss
Head Coach Jono Gibbes
Assistant Coach Dwayne Peel
Scrum Coach Aaron Dundon
Skills Coach Niall Malone

Players In
John Cooney from Connacht
Schalk van der Merwe from Southern Kings
Jean Deysel from Sharks
David Busby promoted from Academy
Aaron Cairns promoted from Academy
Ross Kane promoted from Academy
Rob Lyttle promoted from Academy
Tommy O'Hagan promoted from Academy
Jack Owens promoted from Academy

Players Out
Franco van der Merwe to Cardiff Blues
Roger Wilson retired
Conor Joyce to Jersey Reds
Mark Best to Jersey Reds
Jonny Murphy to Rotherham Titans
Ruan Pienaar to Montpellier
John Donnan released
Lorcan Dow released
Ricky Lutton released
Stephen Mulholland released

Ulster Rugby 2017/18 Senior Playing Squad

Rodney Ah You (18 ULS, 3 IRE)
John Andrew (27 ULS)
Rory Best (198 ULS, 104 IRE)
Callum Black (128 ULS)
Tommy Bowe (150 ULS, 69 IRE)
Peter Browne (31 ULS)
David Busby (2 ULS)
Aaron Cairns (1 ULS)
Darren Cave (193 ULS, 11 IRE)
Marcell Coetzee (4 ULS, 28 SA)
John Cooney (0 ULS, 1 IRE)
Jean Deysel (0 ULS, 4 SA)
Robbie Diack (193 ULS, 2 IRE)
Craig Gilroy (149 ULS, 10 IRE)
Iain Henderson (74 ULS, 32 IRE)
Chris Henry (165 ULS, 24 IRE)
Wiehahn Herbst (54 ULS)
Rob Herring (120 ULS, 1 IRE)
Brett Herron (7 ULS)
Paddy Jackson (123 ULS, 25 IRE)
Ross Kane (11 ULS)
Louis Ludik (54 ULS)
Robert Lyttle (8 ULS)
Luke Marshall (104 ULS, 11 IRE)
Paul Marshall (195 ULS, 3 IRE)
Kyle McCall (36 ULS)
Stuart McCloskey (58 ULS, 1 IRE)
Johnny McPhillips
Peter Nelson (37 ULS)
Alan O'Connor (39 ULS)
Tommy O'Hagan
Stuart Olding (62 ULS, 4 IRE)
Jack Owens (1 ULS)
Callum Patterson
Jared Payne (78 ULS, 20 IRE)
Charles Piutau (23 ULS, 16 NZ)
Matthew Rea
Sean Reidy (58 ULS, 2 IRE)
Clive Ross (52 ULS)
David Shanahan (13 ULS)
Jonny Simpson (4 ULS)
Jacob Stockdale (24 ULS, 2 IRE)
Kieran Treadwell (21 ULS, 2 IRE)
Andrew Trimble (217 ULS, 70 IRE)
Schalk van der Merwe
Andrew Warwick (74 ULS)

by toml Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:04 pm

Variety is the spice of life eh Pete?

I'm just disappointed that we missed out on the Cheetahs in our conference, i'd rather watch Ulster vs Cheetahs than vs the Kings.

Still trying to work out what the SA, Scotland and Italy side do for their second derby game?

by Redman Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:07 pm

Are they saying top 2 go into play offs?

That'll be Leinster + 1 other. With how they finished the end of the season you've got to figure Scarlets will be favorites for that.

Did they not agree previous to this that it's top 7 into the Champions Cup regardless of nationality? How is that going to work with the two conferences? Both conferences have been well balanced, probably as best they can, but I'd still say Conference B has a bit more quality, especially when you think Glasgow have lost Townsend, Connacht have lost Lam and Munster are losing Razzie. Not really seeing how they can aggregate both conferences back together to get 7.

by toml Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:15 pm

Top in each conference goes into semis.

2nd A vs 3rd B and 3rd A vs 2nd B in quarters

by toml Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:17 pm

It will be fascinating to see what impact the SA teams can have, given that they are at a disadvantage having so much more travel.

by marty2086 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:19 pm

toml wrote:Still trying to work out what the SA, Scotland and Italy side do for their second derby game?

Do you mean their 3rd derby game?

Redman wrote:Are they saying top 2 go into play offs?

Top team go straight into the semis, 2nd and 3rd play in QFs

Redman wrote:Did they not agree previous to this that it's top 7 into the Champions Cup regardless of nationality? How is that going to work with the two conferences?

Still going to happen, top three from each conference go into Europe plus the 4th placed team with the most points

by toml Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:22 pm

marty2086 wrote:
toml wrote:Still trying to work out what the SA, Scotland and Italy side do for their second derby game?

Do you mean their 3rd derby game?...

yep I mean the second additional game

Redman wrote:Did they not agree previous to this that it's top 7 into the Champions Cup regardless of nationality? How is that going to work with the two conferences?

Still going to happen, top three from each conference go into Europe plus the 4th placed team with the most points

Ulster's european qualification should be pretty easy. Only have to be better than the Dragons, Edinburgh and Treviso

by marty2086 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:39 pm

toml wrote:It will be fascinating to see what impact the SA teams can have, given that they are at a disadvantage having so much more travel.

They're going to be at a disadvantage having to play two full seasons without a break, they'll be cream crackered come 2018

The conference system will put them at a real disadvantage, I take it they will be playing home and away games in blocks

by Redman Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:40 pm

Thanks Marty

by marty2086 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:45 pm

by clivemcl Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:10 pm

Just watched that Marty and came here to post. Interesting that the two top positions go straight to the semis. Weird that it's still called quarter finals when there's only two games chin

by clivemcl Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:12 pm

Also champions cup qualification should never really be in doubt. We have to finish above edinburgh, Dragons, Kings and Treviso to qualify. And quite frankly if we don't manage that, heads should be rolling!

Edit: I really ought to read the last couple of posts before I start typing! Sorry

by toml Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:13 pm

clivemcl wrote:Also champions cup qualification should never really be in doubt. We have to finish above edinburgh, Dragons, Kings and Treviso to qualify. And quite frankly if we don't manage that, heads should be rolling!

Kings not eligible this year

by Kingshu Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:14 pm

Ulster should make Europe next year, and have a great chance of making the play offs

lets be fair we are in the weaker pool with Dragons, Edinburgh and Treviso,, Kings may be a surprise package but have played a lot of rugby, really means there are 3 teams with a realistic change of the 3 playoff spots.

However this is Sport and Ulster, so we can expect it to all be turned upside down

by toml Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:15 pm

Kingshu wrote:Ulster should make Europe next year, and have a great chance of making the play offs

lets be fair we are in the weaker pool with Dragons, Edinburgh and Treviso,, Kings may be a surprise package but have played a lot of rugby, really means there are 3 teams with a realistic change of the 3 playoff spots.

However this is Sport and Ulster, so we can expect it to all be turned upside down

Plus we don't have a 10

by clivemcl Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:17 pm

Would it be too harsh to say that failure to qualify should automatically result in a sacking?
Does the Jackson situation really excuse the staff? I wonder did they think the trial wasn't going to happen?

by The Great Aukster Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:19 pm

toml wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Also champions cup qualification should never really be in doubt. We have to finish above edinburgh, Dragons, Kings and Treviso to qualify. And quite frankly if we don't manage that, heads should be rolling!

Kings not eligible this year

So if the Cheetahs win and the Kings finish runners up they aren't eligible for Europe?

by clivemcl Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:20 pm

I don't think either are eligible at all regardless of where they finish. Is it not just a case of them not being European?

by toml Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:23 pm

clivemcl wrote:I don't think either are eligible at all regardless of where they finish. Is it not just a case of them not being European?

Possibly more a case of the ERC not ready to think about it yet

by marty2086 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:39 pm

toml wrote:
clivemcl wrote:I don't think either are eligible at all regardless of where they finish. Is it not just a case of them not being European?

Possibly more a case of the ERC not ready to think about it yet

It'll probably be a few years especially if other SA teams and Americans also want to come in

by Kingshu Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:44 pm

toml wrote:
clivemcl wrote:I don't think either are eligible at all regardless of where they finish. Is it not just a case of them not being European?

Possibly more a case of the ERC not ready to think about it yet

Its a tricky one, will the Pro 14 ECC get more spots, I think its unlikely as the French have 14 teams and only get 6, which means that its Ireland/Wales/Scotland/Italy that may have an issue with it.
However we were the ones that invited them to join the Pro 14, so should be ok.
If anyone does have an issues with it, I think that the sponsors and broadcasters will put pressure on for them to be included as it increases their brand to potentially 55 million extra people. So I think its only a matter of time before they are included in ECC

by The Great Aukster Tue 01 Aug 2017, 2:13 pm

clivemcl wrote:I don't think either are eligible at all regardless of where they finish. Is it not just a case of them not being European?

Like Yenisey-STM?

It would be ridiculous for a European Rugby Champion not to be allowed to participate in the European Rugby Champions Cup, as the competition would be devalued even more than it has been of late.
That could be the last straw that broke their BacTrian back!

Once the SA teams prove they can make it work (they will), the Yanks will get on board and then throw in Canadian, Russian, Romanian, Portuguese, Spanish and German sides there would be a lot of bums on settees to generate good TV money so the PRO24 wouldn't need the Franglo Cup to sustain viability.

by toml Tue 01 Aug 2017, 3:28 pm

Shane Logan says that Ulster will be "looking to make a positive announcement sooner rather than later"
RE recruiting a fly half.

He says they have had eyes out for well over a year, but its a difficult time as nearly everyone is under contract

by clivemcl Tue 01 Aug 2017, 3:36 pm

toml wrote:Shane Logan says that Ulster will be "looking to make a positive announcement sooner rather than later"
RE recruiting a fly half.

He says they have had eyes out for well over a year, but its a difficult time as nearly everyone is under contract

At least we aren't just sitting back hoping to be cope with what we have. But I'm sure it won't be anyone fantastic. You'd like to think this would be worth buying out a contract for. We should have a substantial amount of money from not replacing a few of our NIQs.
Or at least trying to get some IRFU pressure for an inter-provincial loan even.

by Pete330v2 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 5:23 pm

Hi could we speak to Mr Madigan please.

Hello Ian,

We know you've only just started getting settled in Bristol but we have a new offer for you that involves returning to Ireland and therefore stepping right back into the reckoning for that international scene that makes you cry so much. Also, you've been wanting to leapfrog Paddy Jackson for a while now so here's your chance. It'll cost us a bit to buy you out but we're sure you've a clause re: returning to Ireland somewhere in your paperwork.
Oh did we mention you'd be playing for Ulster?

Ian??
Are you there??

by clivemcl Tue 01 Aug 2017, 6:32 pm

The worrying thing is Logan says they've been working on a ten for some time now - implying since before the trial was announced. But not long enough ago to have affected Pienaar leaving?
I mean it's the ideal bloody excuse. Can we keep him as long as he only plays 10, and therefore does not block the scrum-half development?
I can only assume either Ruan didn't want that, or we didn't take that approach before he had agreed a deal elsewhere.

by Pete330v2 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 7:23 pm

The whispers on t'other forum are saying it's going to be Bill Johnston from Munster.
Yep, I had to google him as well.
He's a 20 year old injury magnet that Munster were raving about a couple of years ago, before he became an injury magnet.

by Pete330v2 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 7:31 pm

"Although his progress has been hampered by a number of injuries, the 20-year-old Johnston has shown his potential and talent when previously lining out for the Ireland U-20s, Munster 'A' and club side Garryowen. This season the young out-half made his PRO12 debut when coming on as replacement against Zebre in Parma in March. In his five B&I Cup appearances to date, the Clonmel native has kicked 42 points."

by Marshes Tue 01 Aug 2017, 7:31 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:The whispers on t'other forum are saying it's going to be Bill Johnston from Munster.
Yep, I had to google him as well.
He's a 20 year old injury magnet that Munster were raving about a couple of years ago, before he became an injury magnet.

Was just dropping by to check if any news for you lot on a replacement for Jackson. If it's Bill Johnston, it would be odd because he was competing with McPhilips for the u20 flyhalf jersey in 2016/2017. I would have thought Ulster would have been after a more experienced player and Munster would want to hold on to a prospect, meaning Keatley made sense on both counts.

by marty2086 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 7:41 pm

clivemcl wrote:The worrying thing is Logan says they've been working on a ten for some time now - implying since before the trial was announced. But not long enough ago to have affected Pienaar leaving?
I mean it's the ideal bloody excuse. Can we keep him as long as he only plays 10, and therefore does not block the scrum-half development?
I can only assume either Ruan didn't want that, or we didn't take that approach before he had agreed a deal elsewhere.

I think Logans words were, since the story broke so that would be since November.

Screw blocking a 9s development though, surely part of the argument should have been look what he did with Paddy lets get him to work his magic with Johnny too and we can shift him between 9 and 10 so we get the best of both worlds with him

by Pete330v2 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 7:41 pm

I hope it's neither. If Logan etc have been after a replacement for a year I'd like to think they'd come up with a better, more experienced player than either of those.

by marty2086 Tue 01 Aug 2017, 7:42 pm

Marshes wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:The whispers on t'other forum are saying it's going to be Bill Johnston from Munster.
Yep, I had to google him as well.
He's a 20 year old injury magnet that Munster were raving about a couple of years ago, before he became an injury magnet.

Was just dropping by to check if any news for you lot on a replacement for Jackson. If it's Bill Johnston, it would be odd because he was competing with McPhilips for the u20 flyhalf jersey in 2016/2017. I would have thought Ulster would have been after a more experienced player and Munster would want to hold on to a prospect, meaning Keatley made sense on both counts.

What Ive seen of Johnstone he's a hell of a prospect, watching him and McPhillips share the 10 jersey at u20 I dont think theres much between them though a few Munster fans have told me Im wrong

by Marshes Tue 01 Aug 2017, 10:41 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Marshes wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:The whispers on t'other forum are saying it's going to be Bill Johnston from Munster.
Yep, I had to google him as well.
He's a 20 year old injury magnet that Munster were raving about a couple of years ago, before he became an injury magnet.

Was just dropping by to check if any news for you lot on a replacement for Jackson. If it's Bill Johnston, it would be odd because he was competing with McPhilips for the u20 flyhalf jersey in 2016/2017. I would have thought Ulster would have been after a more experienced player and Munster would want to hold on to a prospect, meaning Keatley made sense on both counts.

What Ive seen of Johnstone he's a hell of a prospect, watching him and McPhillips share the 10 jersey at u20 I dont think theres much between them though a few Munster fans have told me Im wrong

I think he was seen as the starter generally but being very unlucky with injuries had to play himself back into contention, he is very highly rated I understand. I mean he could develop into a fantastic player, but like I say I thought the suggestion would be to get Ulster someone with more than a handful of senior appearances, who can share their experience with McPhilips

by marty2086 Wed 02 Aug 2017, 9:28 am

Long term though, Ulster need quality in depth. If we were to bring in Johnstone I'd like our chances of having at least two quality 10s if he was to come permanently.

Short term it may have be a case of sucking it up and hoping Jackson hasn't done what he's accused of and is back before the years out

by Pete330v2 Wed 02 Aug 2017, 10:07 am

marty2086 wrote:Long term though, Ulster need quality in depth. If we were to bring in Johnstone I'd like our chances of having at least two quality 10s if he was to come permanently.

Short term it may have be a case of sucking it up and hoping Jackson hasn't done what he's accused of and is back before the years out

The legal process can take an age, especially in this country but if the process can be expedited then we'll get them back before Christmas. Their right to anonymity was never observed to perhaps because of that they'll be offered the chance to put this all behind them.
I say this as I was talking to a friend of theirs who told me the entire story.

by Maine man Wed 02 Aug 2017, 4:29 pm

Slightly off topic, when are the fixtures due out?

by the-goon Wed 02 Aug 2017, 4:32 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Long term though, Ulster need quality in depth. If we were to bring in Johnstone I'd like our chances of having at least two quality 10s if he was to come permanently.

Short term it may have be a case of sucking it up and hoping Jackson hasn't done what he's accused of and is back before the years out

The legal process can take an age, especially in this country but if the process can be expedited then we'll get them back before Christmas. Their right to anonymity was never observed to perhaps because of that they'll be offered the chance to put this all behind them.
I say this as I was talking to a friend of theirs who told me the entire story.

So what are their chances of getting off?

by marty2086 Wed 02 Aug 2017, 4:35 pm

Maine man wrote:Slightly off topic, when are the fixtures due out?

Suggestion seemed to be it would be next week, I think the broadcasters and league are meeting tomorrow to discuss who wants/gets what games etc and I think someone at Pro1214 or Ulster said it would be Tuesday the fixtures would be released

by Pete330v2 Wed 02 Aug 2017, 5:37 pm

the-goon wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Long term though, Ulster need quality in depth. If we were to bring in Johnstone I'd like our chances of having at least two quality 10s if he was to come permanently.

Short term it may have be a case of sucking it up and hoping Jackson hasn't done what he's accused of and is back before the years out

The legal process can take an age, especially in this country but if the process can be expedited then we'll get them back before Christmas. Their right to anonymity was never observed to perhaps because of that they'll be offered the chance to put this all behind them.
I say this as I was talking to a friend of theirs who told me the entire story.

So what are their chances of getting off?

Well obviously I'm unsure of the exact charges or evidence being offered up but from the events that were told to me I'd be very surprised if they were found guilty of anything. They are still stupid boys for putting themselves in the position they're in but nothing I've heard warrants jail time or being let go from Ulster Rugby.

by clivemcl Wed 02 Aug 2017, 8:42 pm

I've heard similar, albeit 2nd or 3rd hand. Think that gets me though is how any girl can go this far with something unless they fully believe it to be true. I mean it's soooo serious. This goes beyond a bit of payback or whatever. Lies of this sort (when they are lies) have to be driven by pure hate.
So for me, most likely is the girl truely believes it to be the case.
Three outcomes are possible
a) they prove somehow there is guilt
b) they fail to prove there is guilt
c) they prove there definitely was NO guilt.

B is the most likely. But sadly its not an outcomes that removes a shadow of doubt and reputations will only be left intact if the outcome is C.

by toml Wed 02 Aug 2017, 9:16 pm

clivimcl wrote:...Thing that gets me though is how any girl can go this far with something unless they fully believe it to be true. I mean it's soooo serious. ...

1) Perception
2) Memories/ideas getting twisted over time (?outside influence)
3) ALCOHOL

All of those things can influence a situation like this and make things greyer

by marty2086 Fri 04 Aug 2017, 3:10 pm

It has been confirmed that Ulster Rugby will host the Toyota Cheetahs in the opening round of the Guinness PRO14 Championship, and tickets are on sale now!

Following the announcement earlier this week that two South African sides, the Toyota Cheetahs and the Southern Kings, would be joining the PRO14 ahead of the new season, Ulster Rugby can now confirm that Kingspan Stadium will play host to the historic opening day clash versus the Cheetahs on Friday 1st September.

by Redman Fri 04 Aug 2017, 5:59 pm

Seriously looking forward to that. Something completely new.

Fancy they'll still be match fit from their season (it'll be 2018 that they collapse with exhaustion and injuries) and we'll have no flyhalf and probably won't be too sharp coming off pre-season. Can see us losing to be honest.

Still something a bit different.

by Artful_Dodger Fri 04 Aug 2017, 6:13 pm

Redman wrote:Seriously looking forward to that. Something completely new.

Fancy they'll still be match fit from their season (it'll be 2018 that they collapse with exhaustion and injuries) and we'll have no flyhalf and probably won't be too sharp coming off pre-season. Can see us losing to be honest.

Still something a bit different.

I'm not taking anything for granted. I'm reminded of Treviso's first game in the Pro12 when they beat the Scarlets away from home. Like any team that have just joined a competition the Cheetahs will be seriously up for this and they are a very handy team.

by Artful_Dodger Fri 04 Aug 2017, 6:16 pm

Sorry, just realized you said can see us losing and not can't, so yeh, I agree.

by Pete330v2 Fri 04 Aug 2017, 6:35 pm

A SA team just off the end of their season, completely up to speed and chomping at the bit versus Ulster, new coaching team, only off the blocks and without and out-half????
I see nothing but us losing unless Jonno etc are ultra effective. You never know I suppose

by Pete330v2 Sun 06 Aug 2017, 8:51 am

Yer man in the know on t'other place says the announcement will be in 48 hours.
The others on there have Stephen McDonald on the top of their pile of dreams. They're also suggesting Jackson may have used his last life at this stage.

by Pete330v2 Sun 06 Aug 2017, 8:52 am

I should that they do mostly talk a pile a tome kite over there.

by Redman Sun 06 Aug 2017, 2:27 pm

That's interesting. Is that last life with Ulster Rugby?

by Pete330v2 Sun 06 Aug 2017, 3:29 pm

Redman wrote:That's interesting. Is that last life with Ulster Rugby?

Yeah, there's been an incident or two that may have been dealt with differently if it had happened to another player and they are suggesting his lives have run out. I would vert much doubt it but with the likes of Carbery around maybe the IRFU wouldn't stop Ulster from cutting him loose.
As for Donald, he is the only marquee kind of player that's out of contract hence why they're mentioning him. Another one I'd seriously doubt.

Where's Geoff when you need him?? Smile

GEEEEEOOOOOFFFFF!!!!!!!

by Redman Mon 07 Aug 2017, 12:53 am

That's why I asked Pete. I too have heard that's he's been at the fringes of some other stories. Some of which have made the papers, some which haven't. Not anything hyper serious, more wrong place/wrong time which speaks more to general poor judgment. Being charged with r*** though is orders of magnitude worse so when you said last life I assumed you meant at Ulster Rugby. It seems to be a pattern that hasnt improved as he's got older.

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