Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Director of Rugby Les Kiss  
Head Coach Jono Gibbes  
Assistant Coach Dwayne Peel
Scrum Coach Aaron Dundon  
Skills Coach Niall Malone


Players In
John Cooney from Connacht
Schalk van der Merwe from Southern Kings
Jean Deysel from Sharks
David Busby promoted from Academy
Aaron Cairns promoted from Academy
Ross Kane promoted from Academy
Rob Lyttle promoted from Academy
Tommy O'Hagan promoted from Academy
Jack Owens promoted from Academy

Players Out
Franco van der Merwe to Cardiff Blues
Roger Wilson retired
Conor Joyce to Jersey Reds
Mark Best to Jersey Reds
Jonny Murphy to Rotherham Titans
Ruan Pienaar to Montpellier
John Donnan released
Lorcan Dow released
Ricky Lutton released
Stephen Mulholland released

Ulster Rugby 2017/18 Senior Playing Squad

Rodney Ah You (18 ULS, 3 IRE)
John Andrew (27 ULS)
Rory Best (198 ULS, 104 IRE)
Callum Black (128 ULS)
Tommy Bowe (150 ULS, 69 IRE)
Peter Browne (31 ULS)
David Busby (2 ULS)
Aaron Cairns (1 ULS)
Darren Cave (193 ULS, 11 IRE)
Marcell Coetzee (4 ULS, 28 SA)
John Cooney (0 ULS, 1 IRE)
Jean Deysel (0 ULS, 4 SA)
Robbie Diack (193 ULS, 2 IRE)
Craig Gilroy (149 ULS, 10 IRE)
Iain Henderson (74 ULS, 32 IRE)
Chris Henry (165 ULS, 24 IRE)
Wiehahn Herbst (54 ULS)
Rob Herring (120 ULS, 1 IRE)
Brett Herron (7 ULS)
Paddy Jackson (123 ULS, 25 IRE)
Ross Kane (11 ULS)
Louis Ludik (54 ULS)
Robert Lyttle (8 ULS)
Luke Marshall (104 ULS, 11 IRE)
Paul Marshall (195 ULS, 3 IRE)
Kyle McCall (36 ULS)
Stuart McCloskey (58 ULS, 1 IRE)
Johnny McPhillips
Peter Nelson (37 ULS)
Alan O'Connor (39 ULS)
Tommy O'Hagan
Stuart Olding (62 ULS, 4 IRE)
Jack Owens (1 ULS)
Callum Patterson
Jared Payne (78 ULS, 20 IRE)
Charles Piutau (23 ULS, 16 NZ)
Matthew Rea
Sean Reidy (58 ULS, 2 IRE)
Clive Ross (52 ULS)
David Shanahan (13 ULS)
Jonny Simpson (4 ULS)
Jacob Stockdale (24 ULS, 2 IRE)
Kieran Treadwell (21 ULS, 2 IRE)
Andrew Trimble (217 ULS, 70 IRE)
Schalk van der Merwe
Andrew Warwick (74 ULS)

Pete330v2 wrote:They aren't exactly buzzing with confidence...

Your right Pete, and if we can take the sting out of them early on we should hold our own.

Don Alfonso wrote:
Cooper's three tries were part of Malone scoring 70-odd points against Galwegians. Jack Owens also played for them - is he in the Ulster set-up?

Owens made his debut last season, haven't seen him back in the setup since but think he's under contract

rapidsnowman wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:They aren't exactly buzzing with confidence...

Your right Pete, and if we can take the sting out of them early on we should hold our own.

You two are like the Ant and Dec of 606

They are coming into a new competition, it could be a clean slate for them and a chance to forget their problems from the AP

Think Gopperth might be back this weekend too but a 5 day turnaround won't be easy on them

Their first choice front row could really do a number on us, Marty Moore is back in form and they had a slight edge on Sarries yesterday until Moore went off

[quote="marty2086"]

rapidsnowman wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:They aren't exactly buzzing with confidence...

Your right Pete, and if we can take the sting out of them early on we should hold our own.

You two are like the Ant and Dec of 606

You're lucky I didn't mention how strong the Wasps wings usually are.

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:They aren't exactly buzzing with confidence...

Your right Pete, and if we can take the sting out of them early on we should hold our own.

You two are like the Ant and Dec of 606

You're lucky I didn't mention how strong the Wasps wings usually are.

[/quote]

Next you'll be saying it'll all come down to beelief

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:They aren't exactly buzzing with confidence...

Your right Pete, and if we can take the sting out of them early on we should hold our own.

You two are like the Ant and Dec of 606

You're lucky I didn't mention how strong the Wasps wings usually are.

Next you'll be saying it'll all come down to beelief

[/quote]

What a hive of comedic talent we've become.

4/11 for a home win on Friday. I'd never bet against Ulster but those sort of odds are utter madness.

It's going to be a close game. Without our top players and we'll struggle, but we do raise our game for home European games. I hope we edge it. Any word on injuries?

https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/european-champions-cup/ulster-v-wasps/winner

Regarding injuries - well we have some serious ones but overall numbers are good.

Coetzee is almost finished
Payne and de Merwe are ongoing causes for serious concern
Best, Gilroy, Kane wont make it but will be back within a month

As I mentioned going into next year, currently Deysel, is the only NIQ who could be on our books

Redman wrote:4/11 for a home win on Friday. I'd never bet against Ulster but those sort of odds are utter madness.

It's going to be a close game. Without our top players and we'll struggle, but we do raise our game for home European games. I hope we edge it. Any word on injuries?

Wasps are on a 4 game losing streak, the only teams they have beaten are Sale and Worcester two of the weakest teams in the league and they are without a fly half, Launchburys injured, Gaskell played his first game of the season when he came on Sunday, McIntyres injured and Nathan Hughes missed the Sarries game with a dead leg. I think they are missing 15 senior players in total

Redman wrote:4/11 for a home win on Friday. I'd never bet against Ulster but those sort of odds are utter madness.

It's going to be a close game. Without our top players and we'll struggle, but we do raise our game for home European games. I hope we edge it. Any word on injuries?

That is mad alright. Personally I think the standard in the pro 12 has been dire. Individually and collectively the form of the Irish teams is very worrying.

From an Ulster perspective the individual displays and form of most of the team is as bad as I can remember. Cooney has been the one exception.

It really makes me wonder what the heck has been going on in preseason.

Odds for this should be something like 4/6 for Ulster

4/11 is bonkers

How to succeed as a finished rugby player.
1. Perform to a high standard
2. Get a good insurance policy
3. Secure a big money deal with Ulster Rugby
4. Gradually stop playing because of chronic injury
5. Obtain insurance payout.

Sorry to be cynical but Ulsters record with long term injuries must be one of the worst

toml wrote:How to succeed as a finished rugby player.
1. Perform to a high standard
2. Get a good insurance policy
3. Secure a big money deal with Ulster Rugby
4. Gradually stop playing because of chronic injury
5. Obtain insurance payout.

Sorry to be cynical but Ulsters record with long term injuries must be one of the worst

It probably is one of the worst., if not the worst. However, we wouldn't be the club we are if it had been true of Pienaar or Muller. Imagine if either of them had hardly played for us.

Don Alfonso wrote:

toml wrote:How to succeed as a finished rugby player.
1. Perform to a high standard
2. Get a good insurance policy
3. Secure a big money deal with Ulster Rugby
4. Gradually stop playing because of chronic injury
5. Obtain insurance payout.

Sorry to be cynical but Ulsters record with long term injuries must be one of the worst

It probably is one of the worst., if not the worst. However, we wouldn't be the club we are if it had been true of Pienaar or Muller. Imagine if either of them had hardly played for us.

I think we are pretty unlucky with injuries but there are other clubs out there who have had some rubbish luck with them, our lack of depth just makes things seem worse

Sarries lost Will Fraser at the start of the season with a neck injury, Alaister Hargreaves retired last season with concussion problems, Jacques Burger had to retire too

Wasps have lost 3 or 4 players to injury forced retirements in the last few years too, these teams can sign guys like Skelton or Piutaux2 to cover losses or have squads of 45 players to make sure the problems don't expose them

That's a fair point Marty. In sheer numbers terms we've probably done ok. I do think we've been a bit unlucky in terms of the quality of what we've lost. In the last 10 years we've lost Pollock, Ferris and now Coetzee. All backrows and either would have been or were international standard.

How iPads and smart watches have got Ulster off to a flyer this season

In good news Christian suggesting he might stay beyond February next year.

In bad news the return of Payne and vDM continues to be manyana manyana

Saw the interview with Christian, did he not say he'd be open to it but hasn't looked into the possibility of it?

Strange on the Payne front that he's training etc but can't play

Good news as in, if we need him, it's good to have him. But perhaps bad news in terms of what the clubs feelings are about Jackson's chances, or at least the length of the trial.
If its the end for Jackson, and NIQ no matter how good doesn't make up for a natural homegrown talent.
From what I read, the alleged victims statement to police will be read in the trial. Might be quite uncomfortable content for UR and it's fans to listen to to say the least.

Up to a few days ago my understanding is Payne was not taking contact.

Now you can run up and down all you want but you need real contact to see if you are truly ready

clivemcl wrote:  From what I read, the alleged victims statement to police will be read in the trial. Might be quite uncomfortable content for UR and it's fans to listen to to say the least.

Its not a trial but a pre-Trial at which it is determined whether or not a trial should go ahead.
My understanding is their is some disagreement between the PPS and the PSNI as to whether the trail should go ahead.
We wait and see - I know  more but not the place to speak of - at least not yet

If there is a trial I cannot see them playing this year - if ever (at least for Ulster).
These things don't move quickly and if it goes ahead I reckon they will need, and want, to leave to get a fresh start (if found not guilty)

geoff999rugby wrote:Up to a few days ago my understanding is Payne was not taking contact.

Now you can run up and down all you want but you need real contact to see if you are truly ready

Saw pictures of him partaking in training yesterday, whether he sat out the more physical aspects I don't know but he seemed to be involved

That's good news on Christian. Prior to him signing it very much felt like he wasn't convinced by us and would be off the first chance he got, back to the Brumbies. That the option of keeping him on is still not completely ruled out is positive in itself.

On the other forum one of the comments said Coetzee is looking at the end or a complete ACL construction. If that's tue I had a question for medics on the board - how can we not have noticed this prior to return for us in February?

So in terms of timelines, we sign him, he gets injured not long after and then he needs a ACL rework. That was 9-10 months out and he comes back and plays around 4-5 games for us with seemingly no ill effects. He then takes a knock at a match at the end of March. He complains to the medical staff who say "don't worry fella". He plays on and 15 mins later he's taken off with what we hear was a "significant medial meniscal (cartilage) tear”. From what I understand, though it's the same knee, they are different injuries. He has surgery and he returns for us end of August. Plays a couple of games and they start to worry about inflammation/fluid build up. They get an expert in and lowe and behold he now needs a complete ACL rework. He's then sent back to South Africa to speak to the original surgeon.

So my question is - what am I missing? If the ACL was the issue then how did he manage to come back and to play for us February/March. I'm just not understanding how the ACL is still the issue and we've not realised this?

geoff999rugby wrote:

clivemcl wrote:  From what I read, the alleged victims statement to police will be read in the trial. Might be quite uncomfortable content for UR and it's fans to listen to to say the least.

Its not a trial but a pre-Trial at which it is determined whether or not a trial should go ahead.
My understanding is their is some disagreement between the PPS and the PSNI as to whether the trail should go ahead.
We wait and see - I know  more but not the place to speak of - at least not yet

If there is a trial I cannot see them playing this year - if ever (at least for Ulster).
These things don't move quickly and if it goes ahead I reckon they will need, and want, to leave to get a fresh start (if found not guilty)

If it's reported it's going to look terrible regardless. Guilty or innocent, they're not going to emerge from this with any credit at all. The damage to Ulster Rugby is going to be significant.

It would have been interesting if Olding's contract hadn't been signed months prior to the accusations. With him contracted to 2019 I suspect Ulster feel they have to own this issue. If both his and Jackson's contracts had of been up summer 2017 ....... well who knows.

If it goes to trial, regardless of the outcome, I honestly dont believe they will for the Province again.

We should, and I believe are, plan on the assumption they are both ex players.

That's interesting Geoff. I don't want to speculate but I was told that Jackson's situation of being charged of 1 count of r*** and 1 of sexual assault, and Olding being charged with 2 charges of r*** are quite different.

Is it unfair to say Ulster haven't exactly been consistent on this? That they've known the circumstances but would have kept one/both of the players if they hadn't been charged?

Do feel free to not answer that if you feel I've overstepped the mark.

(1-8): K McCall, R Herring, W Herbst, K Treadwell, I Henderson (captain), R Diack, S Reidy, J Deysel;
(9-15): J Cooney, C Lealiifano, J Stockdale, S McCloskey, L Marshall, L Ludik, C Piutau;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, C Black, R Ah You, M Rea, C Ross, P Marshall, P Nelson, T Bowe.

Trimble still not selected, Henry injured, Diack in the backrow is an interesting one when he's been playing second row all season but Hendy as captain

We're fooked

15. Willie Le Roux
14. Christian Wade
13. Elliot Daly
12. Brendan Macken
11. Josh Bassett
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Dan Robson
1. Matt Mullan
2. Tom Cruse
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Will Rowlands
6. James Haskell
7. Thomas Young
8. Nathan Hughes

16. Ashley Johnson
17. Simon McIntyre
18. Marty Moore
19. James Gaskell
20. Jack Willis
21. Joe Simpson
22. Rob Miller
23. Marcus Watson

Trimble's been badly off form but I'd be very confident that it'll be temporary. Diack's selection's interesting indeed and if he can refrain from hitting reverse gear in contact he'll do well. Deysel needs to prove that he play a bit of wrecking ball rugby without his pal Marcel.
Despite Wasps' injury woes and bad form I'll not have any confidence in Ulster to pull of a win until the 80th minute has passed. This might be watched from behind the sofa.

Now that Wasps side has definitely killed all confidence now. I didn't think Gopperth was meant to be fit.
If their 1stXV don't do a job on us that bench absolutely will.
Diack will be in reverse gear all day long against that backrow

Think this is the strongest team Wasps have been able to put out all season, surprised that Moore is on the bench given how good he looked in the scrum against Sarries but given his fitness and the turnaround maybe saving him a bit for Quins

We are missing more 1st XV player than Wasps are................ just saying

Well I'm confident.......that I will watch the game.
Probably drink several large gins.


No we will win. I have faith.........and I have gin.
God I'm going to need the gin

Makes those 4/11 odds look plan silly

This is now a 50/50 game

Pete330v2 wrote:Now that Wasps side has definitely killed all confidence now. I didn't think Gopperth was meant to be fit.
If their 1stXV don't do a job on us that bench absolutely will.
Diack will be in reverse gear all day long against that backrow

Depends whether it is Reliant Robbie or Rampant Robbie that shows up... but yes you're probably right.

Wasps have players unfamiliar with the Kingspan experience, so that is Ulster's only hope - but last I heard there were still tickets available?

geoff999rugby wrote:We are missing more 1st XV player than Wasps are................ just saying

They're bench is probably where they are missing more guys. Cipriani and Taylor are probably the only first XV players missing but with Johnson at hooker it puts their lineout under added pressure but Launchburys return will help there

Not sure I agree with that - only Willis stands out as non bench player
Johnson would still be on the bench even if Taylor available because of what he can do - Cruse would drop out completely

O'Connor and Timoney would be on our bench if fit instead of Rea and Ross

Doran-Jones, Jones and Eastmond come on to the bench for Wasps in my mind but shows the depth they have compared to Ulster

Is now the time to declare?

Ulster In (injury) Crisis

marty2086 wrote:Doran-Jones, Jones and Eastmond come on to the bench for Wasps in my mind but shows the depth they have compared to Ulster

Agree re Jones instead of Willis - don't agree re the other two.
Eastmond is going backwards in the pecking

I do agree they have more depth than we do and by some margin

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