Silly Season Transfer Rumours 17/18

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New season, new thread.

Jaco Kriel linked with joining Gloucester

Fluxy wrote:Jaco Kriel linked with joining Gloucester

Decent replacement for Moriarty.

Just in case anyone didn’t know. Banahan has definitely signed for Glos

Tapaui looks likely to renew

Wyn Jones not coming according to Blackadder

Bathite wrote:Wyn Jones not coming according to Blackadder

The Scarlets LH?

mikey_dragon wrote:

Bathite wrote:Wyn Jones not coming according to Blackadder

The Scarlets LH?

I presume that he means AWJ. Bath being linked with every big name going is standard.

AWJ. That’s the only name I’ve heard us linked with.

It’s scarlets and Saracens that seemed to be linked with everyone

If AWJ wants a big pay cheque the time is now, although I'm not sure he's in need of one after stockpiling all that cash from Lions duty. He comes across as too loyal to Ospreys as well, and they need him to stick around - even Bradley Davies looks like his old self next to AWJ!

Also Bathite, are you expecting to lose Charteris at the end of the season? I'm not sure about Faletau - if we don't break the bank for him this season then he's almost a cert to return to Dragons the following season.

I thought you said Faletau was already signed. Why have you lost faith?

Wouldn’t be upset to lose charteris at all. Has been completely shown up by lesser reputation and frankly much cheaper options in Stooke, Ewels

Bathite wrote:I thought you said Faletau was already signed. Why have you lost faith?

Wouldn’t be upset to lose charteris at all. Has been completely shown up by lesser reputation and frankly much cheaper options in Stooke, Ewels

I've heard mixed responses, we can't afford to buy them all. If it comes to it we'll wait just one more year to get Faletau back. Moriarty to play 8 with a 7 on each flank.

I'm a bit apprehensive of the Charteris signing myself - he's that old we'd be lucky to get one year out of him. I just don't think he's a good investment. He's probably a lot better than the arrogant Bath people give him credit for though.

Maybe it’s Charteris’ arrogance that’s stopped him making a noticeable impact?

To be fair Charteris is still excellent at the lineout and in his maul defence. It's only natural that his ability will diminish now he's in his mid 30s whilst Stooke and Ewels are heading into the start of their prime so are likely to overtake him. Bath will hope he can impart his lineout knowledge to them along the way.

Bathite wrote:Maybe it’s Charteris’ arrogance that’s stopped him making a noticeable impact?

Charteris isn’t from Bath.

So everyone from bath is arrogant and anyone that isn’t is not? Merry Christmas

Phil Waller (1889-1917)

https://worldrugbymuseumblog.wordpress.com/2017/12/14/lest-we-forget-philip-dudley-waller-wales-14-12-1917/

Bathite wrote:So everyone from bath is arrogant and anyone that isn’t is not? Merry Christmas

Rugby Fan wrote:Phil Waller (1889-1917)

https://worldrugbymuseumblog.wordpress.com/2017/12/14/lest-we-forget-philip-dudley-waller-wales-14-12-1917/

Great read.

Alan Gaffney appointed at Saints until the end of the season:

Northampton Saints today confirm Alan Gaffney as the Club’s technical coaching consultant until the end of the 2017/18 season. Gaffney will begin working at Franklin’s Gardens on New Year’s Day ahead of the Club’s Aviva Premiership match against Gloucester on Saturday 6 January 2018.

The 70-year-old is one of Australia’s most experienced coaches who will bring over two decades of professional coaching experience to Franklin’s Gardens. Gaffney will already be a household name to supporters of Irish rugby after spells with the Munster, Leinster, and Ireland squads between 2000 and 2011.

That could be a very shrewd move, there is little he hasn't done at club level and has had international experience as well.

His style will suit our current squad as we no longer have the big ball carriers of old and need to play a more all round game, something the players are capable of but imo not the coaches.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42502820

Nic Stirzaker to join Saracens on a three month deal until March.

Is that cover for Wiggy?

Piet Van Zyl and Arno Botha to London Irish. finally realised they are s**t and need some better players!

Tigers
Santiago Cordero --> Jan 2018
Guy Thompson
Will Spencer

All sounding done or close to being done.

I'd love to see Cordero in the Premiership!

Terrific talent, but does it make sense as a signing when crying out for pack investment

BamBam wrote:Terrific talent, but does it make sense as a signing when crying out for pack investment

The pack is crying out for a forwards coach and a cohesive attacking game plan.

BamBam wrote:Terrific talent, but does it make sense as a signing when crying out for pack investment

Can do both really.

Coaching will obviously help but Tigers back 5 is distinctly average comparing it other good sides in the AP and Europe.

That's a decent trio of signings though.

Well the rumours are that the tigers are after our hooker Sanitago Socino. He's a cracking young player. Would hate to lose him.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Coaching will obviously help but Tigers back 5 is distinctly average comparing it other good sides in the AP and Europe.

I think it lacks balance in the current format but I think the players are good enough to be substantially better than they are now. You could say there's a couple too many good AP players and we could do with a big name international. There is more than enough there to make the top 4, the strength in depth is good as well (could be better at lock).

Tigers back 5 in pack is too lightweight.
Back Row
Evans 14.4 stone
Hamilton 16.5 stone
Kalamafoni 19 stone
Mapapalangi 17.2 stone
O'Connor 15.10 stone
Ryan 15.6 stone
Williams 18.3 stone
Average: roughly 16.5 stone

Compared to
Wasps: 17.6 stone
Saracens: 17.8 stone
Exeter: 17.4 stone

Guy Thompson alone would be our joint second heaviest back rower if he was to sign and he's only 6ft 1.

Our players seem to be either big and unmobile - Kalamfoni and Williams
or
Mobile and small(er) - BOC, Hamilton, Ryan, Evans

Only Mapapalangi is in between currently whereas most teams seem to only have one small and mobile and the rest big (17 stone+) and mobile.


Locks wise only Barrow seems to have the right mix of size and aggression.

We don't play the lightweight options, or haven't during our poor patch. We've played a mix of Williams, Mapapalangi, Kalamafoni and Hamilton, that's an average weight of 17.75 heavier than both Wasps and Exeter and roughly as heavy as Sarries yet in terms of performance we are miles away.

The tactics are shockingly poor and until we have a cohesive and intelligent approach to our forwards attack it doesn't matter who we have in those positions.

Just think that the money spent on Cordero could bring in a big name international forward, even if some of the existing guys are very talented

Look at the impact a guy like Picamoles had on Saints for a season

formerly known as Sam wrote:We don't play the lightweight options, or haven't during our poor patch. We've played a mix of Williams, Mapapalangi, Kalamafoni and Hamilton, that's an average weight of 17.75 heavier than both Wasps and Exeter and roughly as heavy as Sarries yet in terms of performance we are miles away.

But as i said they are not as mobile as Wasps, Exeter and Sarries big forwards.
BOC when he has played hasn't made much of a difference either when he started v worcester and Bath/saints start of season.

It isn't tactics either it's lack of intensity i mean 19 stone Kitchener shopuld be going backwards in attack and defence like he is regardless of coaching, blaming it all on coaching is letting alot of players off the hook for under performing. Coaching helps in alot of way but the one on one collisions is not one of them that is all players and we are not doing that. People seem to think playing BOC will fix alot of things but in the 4 games he started (Bath, Saints, Falcons and worcester will got smashed 3 times).

The players are really not good enough currently, a proper forwards coach might help mask it but masking things will only take you so far and thats what cockers found out v Glasgow etc last season.

BamBam wrote:Just think that the money spent on Cordero could bring in a big name international forward, even if some of the existing guys are very talented
Look at the impact a guy like Picamoles had on Saints for a season

Cordero if he comes will be injury replacement money, no forwards are injured currently.

Agree Welly. I just think the quality in Tigers pack has declined slowly over the last 3 or 4 seasons. Cole and Genge aside, would any of your pack get into a Saracens or Exeter side/squad?

You're 2 top backrowers and a lock away from getting back in with big boys imo. Your backline is arguably the best in the league though.

The Slater deal still shocks me. I know May has scored a bunch of tries, but I think Slater loss is greater than May gain.

He wouldn't make a difference he was involved in alot of games last season where we were smashed up front. Good player but Tigers need to be looking for some proper big 19 stone + locks that are workhorses (Which Spencer seems to be doing at Worcester so would make a good target). Slater was good and aggressive but he wasn't the lock we needed, he was never really a proper lineout jumper either IMO.

I like Barrow but he still needs alot of work and i like Wells but he is a squad player, need to sign Spencer and one more lock IMO, then sign Thompson and get a proper big ass carrier.

Welly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:We don't play the lightweight options, or haven't during our poor patch. We've played a mix of Williams, Mapapalangi, Kalamafoni and Hamilton, that's an average weight of 17.75 heavier than both Wasps and Exeter and roughly as heavy as Sarries yet in terms of performance we are miles away.

But as i said they are not as mobile as Wasps, Exeter and Sarries big forwards.
BOC when he has played hasn't made much of a difference either when he started v worcester and Bath/saints start of season.

 It isn't tactics either it's lack of intensity i mean 19 stone Kitchener shopuld be going backwards in attack and defence like he is regardless of coaching, blaming it all on coaching is letting alot of players off the hook for under performing. Coaching helps in alot of way but the one on one collisions is not one of them that is all players and we are not doing that. People seem to think playing BOC will fix alot of things but in the 4 games he started (Bath, Saints, Falcons and worcester will got smashed 3 times).

The players are really not good enough currently, a proper forwards coach might help mask it but masking things will only take you so far and thats what cockers found out v Glasgow etc last season.

Cockers had a very different pack as season. No Kalamafoni and no Mapapalangi weight to utilise. The malaise in our forward attacking play was evident then though. Forwards strung across then the field meaning then they were slow to he breakdown and often running from one side to the other to be in position for the next slow phase. Taking the ball standing still on their own running into a set defence of players who gang tackle aggressively.

Exeter don't have the biggest backrow but they attack in threes and fours. They drive the ball carrier through the contact so they make that initial metre over the gain line and then have two players to immediately plough over the top. Quick ball and then there's the next set of three or four coming in a hard narrow line. Opposition is still back peddling from the first carry so they get over the gain line again. Momentum is built up and they rumble on and on until the opposition narrow and then they use the backs. Why we don't copy that template I have no idea.

Exeter had Ewers (20 stone) and Armand (19 stone)
That is probably the biggest flanker pairing in the league and both are hard carriers.

Cockers might not have had that weight in Kalamafoni but that was his own fault he had what 5 seasons to find his big ball carrier and signed Fonua.... and our carrying was Poopie then and it's Poopie now. Cockers had though a British and Irish lion in his prime at lock and a 7 that had a Poopie ton of Prem experience in his prime, when Parling and Salvi went so to did our dogness and that's why we got spanked by Exeter, Saracens, Glasgow, Munster and a few more teams.

Welly wrote: Exeter had Ewers (20 stone) and Armand (19 stone)
That is probably the biggest flanker pairing in the league and both are hard carriers.

Cockers might not have had that weight in Kalamafoni but that was his own fault he had what 5 seasons to find his big ball carrier and signed Fonua.... and our carrying was Poopie then and it's Poopie now. Cockers had though a British and Irish lion in his prime at lock and a 7 that had a Poopie ton of Prem experience in his prime, when Parling and Salvi went so to did our dogness and that's why we got spanked by Exeter, Saracens, Glasgow, Munster and a few more teams.

Ewers assist for Armands try was very impressive strength. Just lined Armand up, picked him up and drove him over the line....

Guess the tigers are missing the stream of talent from their former feeder club!

18 and 19 stone per the Chiefs website. Ewers is significantly less mobile than any of our backrowers.

Salvi and Parling were two of our smaller players in the pack and at the time he left Parling has injured a lot and supposedly a concussion away from retirement. Our recruitment has been dodgy for years hampered by our inability to develop academy players to flesh out our squad options.

I agree about your academy Sam. Why was a talent like Thacker allowed to continue as a hooker when his size (for that position) was blatantly going to cause issues at senior level rugby.

Why was he not move to the back row sooner to develop the skills for that position.

rather than having to spend money on foreign 7's coming in..

I'm not sure what has changed with Kalamafoni to effect his carrying. When he first joined Glaws from Nottingham he was absolutely awesome. He had a high knee lift and would always make ground and would regularly be seen with players hanging off him. By the end of his 2nd season with us he just seemed focused on recycling the ball rather than making ground, which he has continued to this day. He makes a big number of carries for very little yards.

formerly known as Sam wrote:18 and 19 stone per the Chiefs website. Ewers is significantly less mobile than any of our backrowers.

Salvi and Parling were two of our smaller players in the pack and at the time he left Parling has injured a lot and supposedly a concussion away from retirement. Our recruitment has been dodgy for years hampered by our inability to develop academy players to flesh out our squad options.

Ewers isn't significantly less mobile, he just isn't a back type forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFKzwnC5RjQ

Salvi weighs more than BOC and Ryan.
True Parling wasn't big but he was the smartest lock we had and his technique was superb

GeordieFalcon wrote:I agree about your academy Sam. Why was a talent like Thacker allowed to continue as a hooker when his size (for that position) was blatantly going to cause issues at senior level rugby.

Why was he not move to the back row sooner to develop the skills for that position.

rather than having to spend money on foreign 7's coming in..

That's where Harry and his Dad (Whose invovled in the academy) wanted him to play.
He hasn't the size for 7 either really.

Welly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:18 and 19 stone per the Chiefs website. Ewers is significantly less mobile than any of our backrowers.

Salvi and Parling were two of our smaller players in the pack and at the time he left Parling has injured a lot and supposedly a concussion away from retirement. Our recruitment has been dodgy for years hampered by our inability to develop academy players to flesh out our squad options.

Ewers isn't significantly less mobile, he just isn't a back type forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFKzwnC5RjQ

Salvi weighs more than BOC and Ryan.
 True Parling wasn't big but he was the smartest lock we had and his technique was superb

GeordieFalcon wrote:I agree about your academy Sam. Why was a talent like Thacker allowed to continue as a hooker when his size (for that position) was blatantly going to cause issues at senior level rugby.

Why was he not move to the back row sooner to develop the skills for that position.

rather than having to spend money on foreign 7's coming in..

That's where Harry and his Dad (Whose invovled in the academy) wanted him to play.
He hasn't the size for 7 either really.

Salvi is only a few pounds heavier than BOC. There's little in that. He is a tackle machine that is horrible at the breakdown. Which exactly what we are lacking currently. I think Thacker could do that. He's shorter so will be a little lighter but that lower centre of gravity is a serious bonus.

Parling was savvy, that kind of savvy we need again. I'd happily swap out some of the size for more savvy. Evans offers more at the breakdown than our entire backrow at present. I'd happily again swap weight for brains, others have plenty of weight.

Troy Thacker was part of a large problem with think academy that was allowed to fester for too long. The large makeover the academy received came years too late. Our playing squad suffered for years because of this mismanagement and arguably still is.

You try putting on a few lbs of muscle it isn't simple and it makes a difference. And define tackling monster? because he might make a number of tackles but haven't seen him drive someone backwards like Toomua can.

yeh but 14 stone isn't big enough to turnover now the laws have changed.

Same with Thacker when was the last time he made a turnover in the breakdown, people over estimate the low centre of gravity thing it works in the breakdown currently. Pocock is 6ft and weighs what 18 stone, It's all about leg power now thats why Hamish Watson is so good currently not because of his lower centre of gravity which helps it's his lower body strength that creates most of his power.

Thacker when he plays makes loads of tackles but he always loses a couple of metres in the tackle and that is the biggest problem with tigers we lose out those metres both in attack and defence.

In this modern game size does matter on the whole and every lbs helps.

Welly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:18 and 19 stone per the Chiefs website. Ewers is significantly less mobile than any of our backrowers.

Salvi and Parling were two of our smaller players in the pack and at the time he left Parling has injured a lot and supposedly a concussion away from retirement. Our recruitment has been dodgy for years hampered by our inability to develop academy players to flesh out our squad options.

Ewers isn't significantly less mobile, he just isn't a back type forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFKzwnC5RjQ

Salvi weighs more than BOC and Ryan.
 True Parling wasn't big but he was the smartest lock we had and his technique was superb

GeordieFalcon wrote:I agree about your academy Sam. Why was a talent like Thacker allowed to continue as a hooker when his size (for that position) was blatantly going to cause issues at senior level rugby.

Why was he not move to the back row sooner to develop the skills for that position.

rather than having to spend money on foreign 7's coming in..

That's where Harry and his Dad (Whose invovled in the academy) wanted him to play.
He hasn't the size for 7 either really.

Ah but i'm not sure sizes matter so much at 7 than it does at front row... especially if you have a poor back 5. Harry has the ideal build, power etc and carrying skills for a 7...just needed lots of playing time there, which he should have got in the academy system.

Just my opinion of course.

Welly wrote: You try putting on a few lbs of muscle it isn't simple and it makes a difference. And define tackling monster? because he might make a number of tackles but haven't seen him drive someone backwards like Toomua can.

yeh but 14 stone isn't big enough to turnover now the laws have changed.

Same with Thacker when was the last time he made a turnover in the breakdown, people over estimate the low centre of gravity thing it works in the breakdown currently. Pocock is 6ft and weighs what 18 stone, It's all about leg power now thats why Hamish Watson is so good currently not because of his lower centre of gravity which helps it's his lower body strength that creates most of his power.

Thacker when he plays makes loads of tackles but he always loses a couple of metres in the tackle and that is the biggest problem with tigers we lose out those metres both in attack and defence.

In this modern game size does matter on the whole and every lbs helps.

I lean down each summer and bulk up for each Autumn again. Normally about half a stone (if I do it right) so I can play rugby during the season but be a but lighter for triathlon in the summer. I've been heavier but found it was detrimental to how I play (with the extremely limited ability I have).

Evans made the most tackles and turnovers during the last game vs LI. About his only AP start this season. He also grabbed a great try. Technique is far more important now especially with the chop tackle being en vogue.

How many tackels where dominant tackles though? or how many lost 2/3 metres?