Glasgow and The Disapproving Neighbours 18 At Last! Whose Round is it?

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Insert funny image here, probably of a genuine Glaswegian; none of your See-an Canary nonsense here.

Insert an image summing up the pretentiousness of Luvviedom. Grant Gilchrist in a kilt eating shortbread?

Add some statistics; time elapsed, in decades, since Ickle Jonny missed a tackle. Time elapsed, in eons, since someone stayed awake for the whole 80 minutes at the Library.

Make some witty banterish comment to start the ball rolling.

See! How hard was that?

R!skysports wrote:"If they gave Oscars for hitting a good angle but knocking the ball on in the process, Nick de Luca would be considered an artist on par with Daniel Day Lewis. "


FES will not like this one

Absolutely!! Nick De Legend was underrated, and certainly doesn't deserve elevation above Di Rollo, Henderson, Craig, Hinshelwood, McLaren, Laney, Utterson (!), Roland Reid (!!), Jon Steel and Alan "not fit to lace my brother's boots" Bulloch,

I also think Southwell is unfortunate to make the list, certainly at 15. At centre he was pretty awful, one great try (against Ireland I think) aside.

They should do an article on the 1990s, as we had some wonderfully dreadful players capped in that decade as well. Any of us old enough to remember the concept of Rowen Shepherd being Gavin Hastings' replacement (via a short lived experiment of Logan at 15) will know what gut-wrenching disappointment feels like.

Still, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Duncan Weir is still being paid by the SRU to play rugby. I'd take Phil Godman any day...

Not sure if this is old news or not, has anyone heard Jim Hamilton talking about his departure from the Scotland setup due to a bust up with Vern Cotter?

01. Episode 9 - Armand’s Omission & Jim’s Retirement Revelation
http://www.therugbypod.com/podcasts

Skip to 15m 25s (just after they chat about Marland Yarde and bad attitudes)

I'd like to hear Vern's side of that story!

Scotland will start the RWC against Ireland and finish against Japan.

Thank feck we're not opening the tournament against the hosts!

Don't think we can have too many complaints about the schedule

Our RWC2019 Pool
R1: Sun 22 Sept – Vs. Ireland
R2: Mon 30 Sept – Vs. Play-Off Winner
R3: Wed 9 Oct – Vs. Europe 1
R4: Sun 13 Oct – Vs. Japan

Although with Europe 1 like to be Georgia we're likely to be fairly beaten up come through Japan game!

Only issue is the last couple of games. Japan will have 7 days to prepare for our game (their previous game is on the 5th) whereas Scotland play the Wednesday before and will have 3 days.

Hopefully Scotland will have done what we need to already and that game becomes meaningless.

Japan are obviously targeting us and as it is their World Cup they can make the schedule to give them the biggest advantage possible.

I've had a look at the overall schedule and there are only a very small number of teams that have such a short turnaround between 2 games, and we're once again one of them! No surprise that England have a nice rest between each game...

I wonder if there is an element of revenge in it. I mean we were largely screwed by the fixtures last time round with the quick turnarounds, but Japan were also impacted in our game against them. They might see this as an opportunity to set the record straight.

Although looking at our fixtures:

• First up Ireland – Full strength side
• 8 days later PO Winner – likely Samoa – near full strength, but maybe one or two players swapped in/out depending on niggles or different strengths/combinations
• 9 days later  - Europe 1 (probably Romania) – Likely not a full 1st choice 15. We should be able to give a rest to key players, still putting out a decent team, but keep back a few key players.
• 3 days later – Japan – full strength.

From my understanding group winner is likely to face SA in the next round (assuming results), whereas runner up could face NZ (again assumptions being made on results), then there is a massive incentive to win the group.  Not that SA are an easy side to beat, but if the choice is NZ or SA, then SA every day of the week.

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Not sure if this is old news or not, has anyone heard Jim Hamilton talking about his departure from the Scotland setup due to a bust up with Vern Cotter?

01. Episode 9 - Armand’s Omission & Jim’s Retirement Revelation
http://www.therugbypod.com/podcasts

Skip to 15m 25s (just after they chat about Marland Yarde and bad attitudes)

I'd like to hear Vern's side of that story!

That is quite a shocking story, and paints Vern in a very different picture and it isn’t a good one.  To summarise for those who haven’t listened to it:

- Hamilton claims that he had busted his balls that pre-season to be in the best shape possible, as he knew the WC would be his last act in a Scotland shirt. He claims he had the best fitness test results of all the front 5 forwards. Despite that he felt like something wasn’t really right between him and Vern.
- All was going well until the morning after the Italy warm up game, where the team were gathering at 5am for breakfast before departing. Apparently VC (like Toonie) insists that everyone shakes hands first thing in the morning. It is worth noting at this point there was a bug going round the squad, the same bug that made Gilchrist miss the game.
- Hamilton – who admits he was never a fan of the hand shaking thing and that he had been up most the night with the sh!ts – says that around half of the squad had gathered by then and none of them were shaking hands, knowing that there was a bug going about. According to Hamilton VC comes in and singles out Hamilton and goes mental at him “how dare you not shake hands with everyone, who do you think you are” etc etc. Which Hamilton was obviously quite confused about given no one was shaking hands.
- Later that week he gets a phone call saying that he wasn’t going to be in the squad, and that they are only taking 3 locks – Gray, Gray and Gilcrhist. He was gutted but sort of understood given they were only taking 3 locks, although he thought he should still have been one of them
- Greig Laidlaw then phones him apparently to say he’s sorry he missed the cut, and Hamilton said about the 3 locks. Greig then told him that there wasn’t 3 locks there were 4 – Swinson had made the cut even though he hadn’t done any pre-season and was just back from his honeymoon! This rightly massively pissed Hamilton off – he had nothing against Swinson but he hadn’t been doing any of the training and Hamilton had been busting his balls for weeks
- 6am the next morning he went to VC’s office and told him he was retiring from Scotland duty – he made sure he shook his hands. When VC said “there might be injuries mate, are you sure?” Hamilton responded saying “you’ve picked 4 locks – you’ll be fine” then left.
- To make matters worse Gilchrist picked up an injury soon into the world cup and was then replaced by Blair Cowan!


Now we would have to hear VC’s side of the story, but that really is a shocking way to treat Hamilton who had been a loyal servant to Scotland for 10 years and according to him was in the best shape of his life. IMO there must be a lot of truth in it as it was completely unfathomable why Swinson was picked when he hadn’t even been in the training squad, combined with Hamilton handing in his immediate retirement. If he’d just missed the cut it didn’t make sense for him to retire with immediate effect as there would have been injuries.

The worst part of this for me is that VC told him they had only picked 3 locks – he didn’t have the balls to tell him they’d picked Swinson instead. Indeed Hamilton says that is the one thing that he has massive issues with. The whole handshake-gate scenario also paints VC as a bit of an obsessive.

As an aside, as someone who hates shaking hands with people (too many manky bastards don’t wash their hands after the toilet!) I completely see his point about the hand shacking thing. I know the point is to make it part of the culture of the group but IMO it massively increases the risk of germs being spread in the group. If one person is ill and then shakes everyone hands then everyone could get it. Given that at the time there was a bug going round camp you can see why people weren’t wanting to shake hands!

I think it also paints Hamilton in a bad light.

Yes he was treated (from his version of events) badly, however to then go onto to say he didn’t want Scotland to win, and then referred to Scotland as “that country”, doesn’t exactly suggest he actually classes himself as Scottish. I know that’s a minor thing, but no matter how badly you feel let down by the head coach etc, you shouldn’t want your country to actively lose.

Also on the Blair Cowan bit, Hamilton had quit by the time that happened so that’s really more Hamilton’s fault for making himself unavailable.

Are we also forgetting Hamilton's loose cannon, penalty magnet qualities, which on many occassions removed the possibility of our chances in a lot of games?
Often his stupid, petulant, fight picking resulted in us surrendering field position, winding the opposition/referee up to have a negative effect against us, or reduced us to 14 players on the field.
So, regardless of whether he was in the shape of his life or not - he could have been the fastest and fittest player available, but if he is also Mr "I can't control my temper penalty magnet", then maybe that is the real reason he was left out.
He seems like a nice fella off the park, but in all honesty, he was a liability on it.

Anglobraveheart wrote:Are we also forgetting Hamilton's loose cannon, penalty magnet qualities, which on many occassions removed the possibility of our chances in a lot of games?
Often his stupid, petulant, fight picking resulted in us surrendering field position, winding the opposition/referee up to have a negative effect against us, or reduced us to 14 players on the field.
So, regardless of whether he was in the shape of his life or not - he could have been the fastest and fittest player available, but if he is also Mr "I can't control my temper penalty magnet", then maybe that is the real reason he was left out.
He seems like a nice fella off the park, but in all honesty, he was a liability on it.

I see what you are saying, but VC wouldn't exactly have just discovered that during pre-season, yet he picked Hamilton over Swinson in the extended squad anyway. if he was never going to pick him for the WC - partially due to his on field discipline issues -
why include him?

Good point.
He didn't seem to rate Toolis either, so maybe Hamilton was just being assessed. Don't suppose we'll ever know.
Maybe he just wanted Swinson to be fresh from injury and nuptials, and he was a better fit for his style of play.
It's 2 years old now anyway, and neither Hamilton nor Cotter remain so maybe better to move on.
Could be perceived as sour grapes from Hamilton? Let's be honest, I think VC had a more positive effect on taking Scotland forwards in a very short space of time than Hamilton ever did throughout his time with us.
Would I be unkind to be suspicious that there may be an impending autobiography from big Jim, and this is a bit of pre-Christmas stocking-filler spin to earn him a bit more for his pension plan?

I very much get the impression you're not Hamilton's biggest fan!

I think it shows a lot of credit to Hamilton that this has brought this up after 2 years, and it came out during a discussion about player's attitudes with coaches - he didn't bring it up himself specifically.  If he'd come out p!ssing and moaning about it during or soon after the world cup it certainly would be sour grapes.

Hamilton has kept this under wraps for 2 years knowing that (in his mind anyway) he was badly treated, which IMO gives him a lot of credit.

I've nothing against him, other than the many occassions where I was left with my head in my hands and exasperated, following yet another of his penalty escapades robbing any chance we had in our games.
He was loyal, put some effort in, was good at club level, but was pretty cumbersome and a liabilty at international level. IMO

Always liked Hamilton and thought his contribution to our set-piece was underrated.

How many Scottish players have won two European Cups?

I don't think Vern was a very good selector, he took Strokosch to the RWC ahead of Barclay & Watson.

reallybored wrote:Always liked Hamilton and thought his contribution to our set-piece was underrated.

How many Scottish players have won two European Cups?

I don't think Vern was a very good selector, he took Strokosch to the RWC ahead of Barclay & Watson.

A good point - I do remember Euan Murray giving Hamilton a lot of credited for his dominant scrummaging, due to the balast he was providing behind. The 6N win against Ireland a few years ago was also largely due to Hamilton demolishing their lineout (he was MOTM).

So he did have some good games!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/club-rugby/16-banned-from-rugby-over-initiation-on-fife-club-s-team-bus-1-4603194

Anyone know any details about this incident at Howe of Fife??

The schedule is fairly kind until the Japan game. Thankfully we are likely to have Romania or Russia as Europe 1. Not exactly murderers row. First game is key against Ireland. May be the difference between pushing on to the semi-final or going out in the group stages.

The Hamilton thing sounds poor and he waited until VC left Scotland before saying anything. If he was told only 3 locks were being taken, I can fully understand his decision (whether he deserved to go ahead of Toolis or Swinson is a different debate). VC did make some strange picks and Toonie seems to be going the same way (Strauss, Visser missing out).

Have Georgia already qualified?

Yes, pool D with Wales and Australia. They finished 3rd over Samoa if memory serves.

Thank feck for that then. I'm sure Romania or Russia will still be stuffy but not as tough a test as Georgia and we should be able to rest key players.

RDW_Scotland wrote:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/club-rugby/16-banned-from-rugby-over-initiation-on-fife-club-s-team-bus-1-4603194

Anyone know any details about this incident at Howe of Fife??

Rumours on twitter, apparently the initiation process involves a bottle up the rectum, which was kicked by a team mate and shattered inside the lad.

No idea if true, but a few folk seem to reckon that's what happened.

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/club-rugby/16-banned-from-rugby-over-initiation-on-fife-club-s-team-bus-1-4603194

Anyone know any details about this incident at Howe of Fife??

Rumours on twitter, apparently the initiation process involves a bottle up the rectum, which was kicked by a team mate and shattered inside the lad.

No idea if true, but a few folk seem to reckon that's what happened.

Who thought that was a good idea? Isn't that criminal charges?

Two players were arrested and charged with sexual assault.

It really is staggering if true about the bottle!

James Johnson in the Scotsman this morning saying he'd like to pursue a career in XVs, and still doesn't know what will happen when the 7s season kicks off (given he's a contracted 7s player).

I don't blame him to be fair - he's got a coach that obviously rates him, there can't be very much money as a 7s player and not much job security either given they'll be one of the first things to go if the SRU are needing to save some cash.

He says he's achieved a lot in 7s so far and he probably realises that Scotland have always punched above their weight, and with the competition so competitive now it won't take much for the team to start struggling again.

He is a key player for the 7s though so will be interesting to see where this one goes - I hope he stays at Edinburgh. But then again with Bennett coming back soon and Chris Dean developing well there may not be room for him in the squad.

The Sun has full details of the Howe of Fife incident - what were they thinking??

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/4679093/fife-rugby-player-horro-injury-bottle-bum-initiation/

Love the helpful pictures in that article, just in case the reader doesn’t know what a bottle looks like. Mind you given it was the sun, their readers possibly thought it was a 2 litre plastic bottle of white lightning.

Edinburgh fans (And scotland fans in general) what is the feelings on Cockers so far?

Well we got a BP win tonight so pretty good!

I think he's exactly what Edinburgh needed - there was obviously something wrong to the core at Edinburgh and he's slowly but surely building a new culture.

With all the off-field issues he's had plenty to deal with!

He's been a busy chap, but like RDW says I think he's exactly what we need as a club. They were saying in commentary at the end of the match tonight that weirdly the off field issues we've had recently with Bradbury and Hardie may actually help us pull together in the long run and I agree with that. It's certainly given Cockers a chance to demonstrate what he expects of the players, and dropping Bradbury as captain put a pretty clear full stop after that incident and I think the players will have taken a lot from that.

Top marks on Cockers so far from me!

Mark Palamer tweeting this morning that Edinburgh are after John Barclay for next season.

Does he wants to move back to Scotland, or go for a pension in France!

Bit of a strange one for Edinburgh, unless Cockerill wants more leadership in the squad (which we probably need to be fair).

From a playing PoV we've got a lot of young talent on the flanks coming through so it would only deprive them of game time.

I wouldn't say no to Barclay but I won't be overly disappointed if it falls through!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bit of a strange one for Edinburgh, unless Cockerill wants more leadership in the squad (which we probably need to be fair).

From a playing PoV we've got a lot of young talent on the flanks coming through so it would only deprive them of game time.

I wouldn't say no to Barclay but I won't be overly disappointed if it falls through!

A lot of young talent coming through yes, but leadership is a bit of an issue and Barclay. having been a bit petulant in his younger days as well, does seem to have grown into a very able one and might just be the person to help take Edinburgh onto the next level.

McKenzie will do a job this year but will always struggle for his place in the team when everyone is available.

I think it could be a good fit, but it does not take into account what JB wants from what may well be his last professional rugby contract.

At 31 he is old enough that the younger players shouldn't be put off, Rotation will be the main thing.

In cockers mind he prob has getting into the Champions cup as his goal this season and if he does that he will need experianced players in his squad.

the fact that he has been involved in a title winning team will also be a big plus.

BigGee wrote:Mark Palamer tweeting this morning that Edinburgh are after John Barclay for next season.

Does he wants to move back to Scotland, or go for a pension in France!

Bizarre. Leaving aside the fact that he'd be going to a less storied club at the moment, they love him in Llanelli and I suspect would be loathe to let him go. 

The Welsh regions are not swimming in experienced loose forward options either, really so I cannot see the advantages of this for JB's current club either.

Money talks though and the Scarlets might not be able to offer him much for his new deal.

Barclay loves living in Wales though and his kids have a settled life there so I'm sure he will be seriously considering to stay.

This will likely be his last big contract and could be his last one period.

Money is likely to play a very big part in his decision and without a dual contract, Scarlets may struggle to match his market value.

Where and what he sees his future as post pro rugby may also come into his thought process. That part of Wales is very nice if you like sheep and scenery but it may not be where he sees his future longer term.

Nice to be back in November again now and we can get back down to some serious player movement speculation again.

For all Edinburgh recent improvements, their squad does remain limited and Cockers will want to start putting his own stamp onto it. Barclay would clearly be his kind of player. I don't know what Hamilton's contract situation is at Leicester, but you might wonder if he fancied bringing him up as well.

One thing seems likely though, that Hardie, irrespective of whatever comes from the disciplinary, seems likely to move on. There never really did seem to be a lot of sense keeping him and Watson in the same club on top dollar and Hardie is the one whose form seems to have dipped. On current form he would struggle to be selected for the Scotland squad in any case.

Scarlets are after Moriarty by the sounds of it so that might be a big factor in where the money goes as he will be on alot.
RE Luke Hamilton he is out of contract end of season I think and I could see him going up North if it would help his Scotland chances.

Welly wrote:Edinburgh fans (And scotland fans in general) what is the feelings on Cockers so far?

Early signs are good. Talks a lot of sense in interviews and appears to have given the team a bit of backbone

Welly wrote: Scarlets are after Moriarty by the sounds of it so that might be a big factor in where the money goes as he will be on alot.
RE Luke Hamilton he is out of contract end of season I think and I could see him going up North if it would help his Scotland chances.

That would make sense.

Moriarty will need to be playing in Wales if he wants to continue with International rugby (which I am sure he does) and they will be able to afford him via a NDC. On that basis they are even less likely to break the bank to keep JB, nor will they want that many back row players away playing international rugby at the same time.

I suspect that there is something in this. When Mark Palmer tweets something of interest, it usually does come to pass (unlike Big Jim Hamilton!)

Edinburgh v Ospreys
Full game on YT.

Good weekend for Scottish club rugby. Edinburgh look like they are getting a bit of consistency in performance and SA will be a good test of this. Glasgow need to take the frustration of the ERCC out on the rest of the league and did for a half.

Barclay would give Edinburgh envious resources in the back row. He would go to 6 with Watson at 7 and CDP or Bradbury at 8/on bench. Ritchie, Crosbie and Mata would be the rotation options. Still leaves the hole at hooker and at 10 that really should be priorities.

I would personally prefer Barclay goes to France or England and leaves the spot open for Ritchie and Crosbie to fight it out. Hamilton would fit and be a younger, cheaper 6/7 who Ritchie, Crosbie, Watson and Bradbury can grow with as long as the money is put towards a top flight 2 and 10 (not guys like Cochrane and De Rure).

Ross Ford has been ruled out for 4 months.

Scottish rugby as a whole are in a bit of a front row crisis just now due to an unprecedented injury list. With the AIs coming up the Scotland team are having to take whoever is left standing on 2 legs into the squad, meaning Glasgow and Edinburgh are down to the absolute bare bones.

I know that not all of the Scotland players will end up in the test 23, but there is usually an extra travelling hooker and prop to cover any late calloffs on the day.  This makes things even more difficult for Edinburgh in particular as they are going to be in South Africa the week building up to the Australia game and then the week after.

Injured

LH – Al Dickinson, Alan Dell, Gordon Reid
H – Ross Ford, Fraser Brown

Scotland squad

LH – Darryl Marfo, Jamie Bhattie , Rory Sutherland (and he’s literally just returned!)
H – Stuart McInally, George Turner, Neil Cochrane

Remaining in Edinburgh (and fit)

LH – Rizzo, McCallum (technically a tighthead now)
H – Crosbie

Remaining in Glasgow (and fit)

LH – Allan, Grant
H- McArthur, Malcolm

If one more loosehead or hooker gets injured we’re going to be in real trouble!

RDW_Scotland wrote:en more difficult for Edinburgh in particular as they are going to be in South Africa the week building up to the Australia game and then the week after.

Remaining in Edinburgh (and fit)

LH – Rizzo, McCallum (technically a tighthead now)
H – Crosbie

Hooker? Is there more than one Crosbie? Did you mean Fenton?

Whoops - of course I meant Fenton....!

Good spot.

But still, we only have one left technically! And he was only brought in to the squad a few weeks ago.

Aye the point is absolutely correct, and if anything Crosbie is more experienced than Fenton, as I think it was his debut against Ospreys at the weekend.

I can imagine the majority of the squad that travels to SA will have a dusting of fluff on their top lip and voices that get higher and lower.

EWT Spoons wrote:Aye the point is absolutely correct, and if anything Crosbie is more experienced than Fenton, as I think it was his debut against Ospreys at the weekend.

I can imagine the majority of the squad that travels to SA will have a dusting of fluff on their top lip and voices that get higher and lower.

The timing of our SA tour is a real shame for Edinburgh – I would have loved us to have gone out there full strength and had a good go at the Cheetahs like Glasgow did. Instead we’re going to have a very green pack (likely full backline) and could be on the end of a doing by the Cheetahs and I’m sure the Kings will be targeting us for their first win.

We could end up with a pack like

1 Rizzo (hopefully Leicester don’t recall him as then we’re really screwed!
2 Fenton
3 McCallum
4 Bresler (he is very much needed for these games!)
5 McKenzie
6 Crosbie
7 Ritchie
8 Bradbury

Great for the future but very raw to be going up against some hairy arsed Saffers in South Africa!

There is a chance that Bradbury and Ritchie won't be released.

Could see Carmichael at 7 and Mata at 8

McCallum may be covering loosehead with Bryce needing to start at tighthead if Marfo and/or Berghan are not released.

Is Ally Miller still about or has he been released? He was going well for LS at 8 I thought?

Mata, Crosbie and Miller back row would be an interesting exercise.