Glasgow and The Disapproving Neighbours 18 At Last! Whose Round is it?

I'll Put A Funny Sub-Title Here

EWT Spoons wrote:Being able to play across the front row is not a great sign.  Suggests he’s not particularly good at any position and just gets shunted about.  Being able to play LH & TH suggests a player isn’t great, chucking hooker into the mix as well suggests he’s just a big lad without any actual ability.

R!skysports wrote:In case anyone has not answered the question...

It is Edinburgh's

TJ wrote:Nonsense - we bought the last round - its just the weegies were too smashed on buckie to remember ;-)

EWT Spoons wrote:Being able to play across the front row is not a great sign.  Suggests he’s not particularly good at any position and just gets shunted about.  Being able to play LH & TH suggests a player isn’t great, chucking hooker into the mix as well suggests he’s just a big lad without any actual ability.

Edinburgh’s new coach tells a good story against himself from his time in charge of Leicester Tigers. Richard Cockerill used to write out the lineout codes longhand and photocopy them before distributing them to the forwards to learn. The England lock Ben Kay used to return his to the diminutive coach with all his spelling errors corrected in a red pen.

It seems unlikely that an Edinburgh forward will take similar liberties with Cockerill any time soon although that may change over time, presuming he is afforded that particular luxury. The Englishman has a three-year contract in his pocket but Edinburgh rugby has sullied more than one reputation. The last two (full-time) coaches, Michael Bradley and Alan Solomons, were both ushered out of the tradesman’s entrance midway through the season which suggests that it will take more than a roll of gaffer tape and some hope to fix all of Edinburgh’s myriad faults.

The little Englishman has already made an impact. The players breakfast together at 7.30am and appear to have taken to their new boss. For his part, Cockerill declared himself pleasantly surprised at the quality of player available to him even if his new squad can’t quite match the stellar wattage of his previous one, Toulon.

“From what I’ve seen, from my perception from the outside, they [the players] are better than what I thought,” was how Cockerill put it. “Hopefully I will start to drive the standards of where we need to be as a team. “I think their basic skills are OK. You could take half a dozen of those players and put them in a French team or a Premiership team and they wouldn’t look out of place, but how hard are they willing to work?”

Faced with a new set of journalists to whip into shape, the new coach kept his message simple. He wanted his players to be the best that they could possibly be and he repeatedly referred back to a core of talented Scottish youngsters who he hopes will become the backbone of the club. He name-checks the electric eel that is Darcy Graham, lock Callum Hunter-Hill and breakaway Luke Crosbie, all of whom starred for the successful national 20s team last season. The prop Murray McCallum got good game time last season and Blair Kinghorn has oodles of talent no matter his struggles last season. Jamie Richie, Hamish Watson and Magnus Bradbury all have what it takes and

Cockerill points to another former Leicester player to show just what the right environment can do for someone’s career. “Geoff Parling [moved] from Newcastle to Leicester. He sat on the bench for Newcastle and within 12 months [of moving] he was playing for England. The player is no different, it’s just the environment he is in. “We have to change the environment [at Edinburgh], that’s the starting point. What environment they get every day, conditioning, medical, coaching, do they feel part of it, is there an emotional attachment?” Cockerill’s emphasis on the environment/culture is surely the right way forward because Edinburgh are serial under-performers.

The coach’s problems are not tactical or technical but rather they lie in persuading his players to unearth the best of themselves every match, not just when they are playing against Glasgow. Edinburgh’s players think they work hard at the game but compared to successful sides like Saracens and Leinster, Glasgow and the Crusaders, they are only playing at professional rugby. The older crew have had their chance and failed and the little Englishman is putting his faith in a core of young, talented Scots who have tasted success at age grade and are hungry for more.

“I would much rather bring those [young] guys through than have a journeyman that just sits at the level,” Cockerill explains. “I want guys who have a bit of growth in them, because how do you get that cultural identity if we don’t keep those young players coming through. “If they grow up together in the next three, four or five [years], that’s a strong group of players, a bit like Glasgow who have grown up together in the last four, five, six years and they know what they are doing. “

Do we want to a group that is built on young Scottish players that will grow up together and will come through, with a bit of teething on the way, which means we’ll have some sh*t results, as we will, or do we just want to go down the line of we’ll go into the market place and spend twice as much money and just buy a team that will give us a success today? I think we all know the answer to that.”

Cockerill famously fell out with Clive Woodward when he coached England – he was dropped for his trouble – and his autobiography is even more scathing about the role of journalists. It may be a one-sided affair but journalists have taken to him. The Englishman is honest, interesting and occasionally laugh-out-loud funny. “I am finding out that everyone seems to have a cap,” he says to general mirth before adding.
“It’s funny because it’s true!”

He readily concedes that he doesn’t have all the answers and that things could go horribly wrong but he appeals for some balance and he recognises that, for a team in Edinburgh’s position, there are more important things than winning every week. “There’s going to be some road-bumps along the way, we might go to Cardiff and get our arses smacked in the first game of the season and then we’ll be looking at the season ahead and be going: ‘F**k, where are we?’ But it’s not where we start, it’s where we finish, so we have to take a measured view. If we go to Cardiff and win, its not all fixed; and if we go to Leinster and turn them over, that’s great but it doesn’t mean we have cracked it.”

“I want us to be a positive team, even when we kick the ball. I want people to roll their sleeves up, grit their teeth and get into the middle of it so the people who come to watch can see that Darcy Graham cares, Blair Kinghorn cares and Ben Toolis is in the middle of the sh*t-fight and Ross Ford is leading the charge. “Because, actually, that is what we identify with. That’s what we cheer about. People keep telling me the Edinburgh crowd is really quiet, well, I’m not f**king surprised, we’ve given them f**k all to cheer about!”

He has a tough season ahead, not least because of the extra travel with the twin South African franchises. Edinburgh play the Cheetahs on 25 November, the same day that Scotland are facing the Wallabies at Murrayfield, and the Southern Kings one week later. Cockerill will be without his best players but he appears unfazed. “I think its a great concept,” says the Englishman. “ If it works I think the English and French will go, ‘f**k, we missed a trick on that’ because we are taking the risk, aren’t we? “It adds a little bit of variety. Clearly the away game will be a little bit too far for supporters to go and watch. Clearly it will be us going there in their summer and them coming here in our winter… that will be an interesting one.

“I think it’s good variety, I think the top three is sensible around play-offs and the top two are semi-finalists and you play-off, I think that’s a good thing. They’ve kept the derby games which are important to everyone for all sorts of reasons. I think its a good concept but we’ll see what it is in reality. I think we have to approach it as the glass half full and see where it ends up. Let’s attack it with a bit of optimism and let’s attack it with a bit of gusto and let’s make it work because that’s the way the game is going to go isn’t it?”

You have to hope that Cockerill is the game-changer that Edinburgh needs because Scottish rugby cannot afford to have 50 per cent of their pro-teams on permanent life support. He may have matured and even mellowed a tad since his playing days, but at his core Cockerill remains the little big man, taking on the world and throwing himself into every challenge to the extent of uprooting his family and moving them lock, stock and barrel to Edinburgh. “That’s important to me and the family because I’m going to ask a lot of the players so I’m doing exactly the same. The kids have moved school, the wife has left her job, which she liked, so I better make it work!”

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/guinness-pro12/richard-cockerill-has-already-had-an-impact-at-edinburgh-1-4530108

RDW_Scotland wrote:Another good interview with Cockerill in the Scotsman - looks like it was done before the start of the season though. Sports journos are definitely getting lots to write about with him. Highlighted my favourite bits in bold!

I'm sure he's only got a 2 year deal - Morrison claims it is 3 (but then again, it is Morrison!)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/guinness-pro12/richard-cockerill-has-already-had-an-impact-at-edinburgh-1-4530108

Edinburgh’s new coach tells a good story against himself from his time in charge of Leicester Tigers. Richard Cockerill used to write out the lineout codes longhand and photocopy them before distributing them to the forwards to learn. The England lock Ben Kay used to return his to the diminutive coach with all his spelling errors corrected in a red pen.

It seems unlikely that an Edinburgh forward will take similar liberties with Cockerill any time soon although that may change over time, presuming he is afforded that particular luxury. The Englishman has a three-year contract in his pocket but Edinburgh rugby has sullied more than one reputation. The last two (full-time) coaches, Michael Bradley and Alan Solomons, were both ushered out of the tradesman’s entrance midway through the season which suggests that it will take more than a roll of gaffer tape and some hope to fix all of Edinburgh’s myriad faults.

The little Englishman has already made an impact. The players breakfast together at 7.30am and appear to have taken to their new boss. For his part, Cockerill declared himself pleasantly surprised at the quality of player available to him even if his new squad can’t quite match the stellar wattage of his previous one, Toulon.

“From what I’ve seen, from my perception from the outside, they [the players] are better than what I thought,” was how Cockerill put it. “Hopefully I will start to drive the standards of where we need to be as a team. “I think their basic skills are OK. You could take half a dozen of those players and put them in a French team or a Premiership team and they wouldn’t look out of place, but how hard are they willing to work?”

Faced with a new set of journalists to whip into shape, the new coach kept his message simple. He wanted his players to be the best that they could possibly be and he repeatedly referred back to a core of talented Scottish youngsters who he hopes will become the backbone of the club. He name-checks the electric eel that is Darcy Graham, lock Callum Hunter-Hill and breakaway Luke Crosbie, all of whom starred for the successful national 20s team last season. The prop Murray McCallum got good game time last season and Blair Kinghorn has oodles of talent no matter his struggles last season. Jamie Richie, Hamish Watson and Magnus Bradbury all have what it takes and

Cockerill points to another former Leicester player to show just what the right environment can do for someone’s career. “Geoff Parling [moved] from Newcastle to Leicester. He sat on the bench for Newcastle and within 12 months [of moving] he was playing for England. The player is no different, it’s just the environment he is in. “We have to change the environment [at Edinburgh], that’s the starting point. What environment they get every day, conditioning, medical, coaching, do they feel part of it, is there an emotional attachment?” Cockerill’s emphasis on the environment/culture is surely the right way forward because Edinburgh are serial under-performers.

The coach’s problems are not tactical or technical but rather they lie in persuading his players to unearth the best of themselves every match, not just when they are playing against Glasgow. Edinburgh’s players think they work hard at the game but compared to successful sides like Saracens and Leinster, Glasgow and the Crusaders, they are only playing at professional rugby. The older crew have had their chance and failed and the little Englishman is putting his faith in a core of young, talented Scots who have tasted success at age grade and are hungry for more.

“I would much rather bring those [young] guys through than have a journeyman that just sits at the level,” Cockerill explains. “I want guys who have a bit of growth in them, because how do you get that cultural identity if we don’t keep those young players coming through. “If they grow up together in the next three, four or five [years], that’s a strong group of players, a bit like Glasgow who have grown up together in the last four, five, six years and they know what they are doing. “

Do we want to a group that is built on young Scottish players that will grow up together and will come through, with a bit of teething on the way, which means we’ll have some sh*t results, as we will, or do we just want to go down the line of we’ll go into the market place and spend twice as much money and just buy a team that will give us a success today? I think we all know the answer to that.”

Cockerill famously fell out with Clive Woodward when he coached England – he was dropped for his trouble – and his autobiography is even more scathing about the role of journalists. It may be a one-sided affair but journalists have taken to him. The Englishman is honest, interesting and occasionally laugh-out-loud funny. “I am finding out that everyone seems to have a cap,” he says to general mirth before adding.
“It’s funny because it’s true!”

He readily concedes that he doesn’t have all the answers and that things could go horribly wrong but he appeals for some balance and he recognises that, for a team in Edinburgh’s position, there are more important things than winning every week. “There’s going to be some road-bumps along the way, we might go to Cardiff and get our arses smacked in the first game of the season and then we’ll be looking at the season ahead and be going: ‘F**k, where are we?’ But it’s not where we start, it’s where we finish, so we have to take a measured view. If we go to Cardiff and win, its not all fixed; and if we go to Leinster and turn them over, that’s great but it doesn’t mean we have cracked it.”

“I want us to be a positive team, even when we kick the ball. I want people to roll their sleeves up, grit their teeth and get into the middle of it so the people who come to watch can see that Darcy Graham cares, Blair Kinghorn cares and Ben Toolis is in the middle of the sh*t-fight and Ross Ford is leading the charge. “Because, actually, that is what we identify with. That’s what we cheer about. People keep telling me the Edinburgh crowd is really quiet, well, I’m not f**king surprised, we’ve given them f**k all to cheer about!”

He has a tough season ahead, not least because of the extra travel with the twin South African franchises. Edinburgh play the Cheetahs on 25 November, the same day that Scotland are facing the Wallabies at Murrayfield, and the Southern Kings one week later. Cockerill will be without his best players but he appears unfazed. “I think its a great concept,” says the Englishman. “ If it works I think the English and French will go, ‘f**k, we missed a trick on that’ because we are taking the risk, aren’t we? “It adds a little bit of variety. Clearly the away game will be a little bit too far for supporters to go and watch. Clearly it will be us going there in their summer and them coming here in our winter… that will be an interesting one.

“I think it’s good variety, I think the top three is sensible around play-offs and the top two are semi-finalists and you play-off, I think that’s a good thing. They’ve kept the derby games which are important to everyone for all sorts of reasons. I think its a good concept but we’ll see what it is in reality. I think we have to approach it as the glass half full and see where it ends up. Let’s attack it with a bit of optimism and let’s attack it with a bit of gusto and let’s make it work because that’s the way the game is going to go isn’t it?”

You have to hope that Cockerill is the game-changer that Edinburgh needs because Scottish rugby cannot afford to have 50 per cent of their pro-teams on permanent life support. He may have matured and even mellowed a tad since his playing days, but at his core Cockerill remains the little big man, taking on the world and throwing himself into every challenge to the extent of uprooting his family and moving them lock, stock and barrel to Edinburgh. “That’s important to me and the family because I’m going to ask a lot of the players so I’m doing exactly the same. The kids have moved school, the wife has left her job, which she liked, so I better make it work!”

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/guinness-pro12/richard-cockerill-has-already-had-an-impact-at-edinburgh-1-4530108

RDW_Scotland wrote:His first test will be the games coming up against Scarlets and Leinster away - we should be going into these with our first team and all guns blazing. If he can pull off a win out of either of these it would be a real promising start.

Problem is the opposition will be at full strength and all guns blazing too!

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:His first test will be the games coming up against Scarlets and Leinster away - we should be going into these with our first team and all guns blazing. If he can pull off a win out of either of these it would be a real promising start.

Problem is the opposition will be at full strength and all guns blazing too!

It won't be a disaster for Edinburgh not beating Scarlets or Leinster, so long as they put in a performance and don't capitulate as they have often done in the past. They will get a crack at some of the top teams when they are not at full strength and may well get a few scalps as the seasons goes on.

Edinburgh need to start off by winning the games they are expected to or at least are in the balance. That has been beyond them in recent seasons and would be a good sign of improvement if they manage to start doing it regularly.

To be fair, they have done so this season so far.

SRU wrote:George Goodenough (Edinburgh University)

Pro14 site wrote:When Richard Cockerill arrived in Edinburgh he pulled no punches with where he felt the club was and where he wanted to take it.

Two weeks and two wins in, the Cockerill effect seems to be working, with Edinburgh one of six unbeaten teams after two rounds of Guinness PRO14 action.

Next up they host Benetton Rugby at Myreside but even if they make it three from three, Cockerill has a long-term vision in mind for the team.

He explained: “It’s just a completely new experience for me. I know where I want the team to go, I know what it takes to win games, I know what it takes to win championships and this side has got a hell of a long way to go.

“Everyone understands that. But the thing I am is a realist. The first thing I did when I sat down with the squad and the people employing me, I said the reality is we’re a bottom four team.

“Everybody probably was in semi-denial, they said we should be a top six team. Well why would be a top six team when we’d never finished above eighth in the PRO12 format?

“So that’s the starting point. We’re not very good. This is what we need, which is around work ethic, getting fit and all the things you can control to get the best out of this squad.

“Once you’ve got the best out of this squad and the potential with this squad and what we spend, I’ll need to go and ask for more money to extend the squad and ask for more depth and things would naturally change as professional sport does.

“I’m here for the long term, I’m signed for two years but this project is probably four or five or six years and I don’t see any reason why that can’t work for me.”

The first change Cockerill made was to Edinburgh’s training schedule. Gone are the free weekends following a Friday night game, with the team now in on Sundays to train.

The coaching squad has also been shaken up – Duncan Hodge remains, but Nick Lumley and Callum MacRae have come in from the Scotland Sevens set-up while Roddy Grant follows in Cockerill’s familiar pathway of bringing former players into the coaching set-up.

The likes of Robbie Fruean – a try-scorer on debut against the Dragons – and Mark Bennett provide some star power this season, but in large parts it’s the same squad as last season.

Already Cockerill has made some bold moves, naming 22-year-old Magnus Bradbury as skipper being the first.

But after 13 years moving up the coaching tree at Leicester, where he won three Premiership titles and reached a European final, before a six-month stint in the cauldron of Toulon, now Cockerill wants the credibility in the Guinness PRO14.

He added: “We want to earn some respect in the competition. When teams come to us they probably expect to win. Bar two or three. It’s not very good.

“So when people talk about Edinburgh, we’re credible and we need to be consistent. Historically we’re a cup team, we can do well in Europe, they’ve got to a European semi-final, a Challenge Cup quarter-final last year, a Challenge Cup final a few years ago.

“They can raise their game but can’t do it every week. It’s there, now it’s making sure there’s a consistent training week, consistent effort the whole time, professionalism whether they are at training. We have 30 weeks of pro rugby, we need to make sure we are competitive every time we play, which at the moment we are not.

“Every time we play we try and win. We may not be good enough but we won’t be going to the bigger teams in the league away from home trying to keep the score down. We’re going to try and be competitive. How realistic that is within the season, we’ll see.”

Following the game against Benetton, Edinburgh face back-to-back trips to Scarlets and Leinster – the champions and the league’s most successful team.

Cockerill should have a good idea after those games of just how competitive his side can be in his maiden campaign.

RDW_Scotland wrote:So who does that leave us with - Allan, Bhatti......

We're doomed!

MacKnocked-on wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:So who does that leave us with - Allan, Bhatti......

We're doomed!

Don't forget Darryl Marfo, he's SQ apparently....

RDW_Scotland wrote:So there's a few months to go yet, but making assumptions on injuries (i.e. Hogg in, J/R Gray and Brown out) is this the kind of squad we'll be looking at?

1 - feck knows. Radge and whatever fat bloke we can find off the street
2 - Ford, Turner, McInally
3 - Nel, Fagerson, Berghan
4/5 - Toolis, Swinson, Gilchrist, Cummings, Bresler?
6/8 - Wilson, Ashe, Bradbury, Ritchie, Harley, CDP/Fagerson?
7 - Watson, Hardie

9- Price, Pyrgos, SHC
10 - Russell (Horne and Jackson cover)
11/14 - Seymour, Maitland, Visser, Jones
12 - Horne, Dunbar
13 - Jones,Taylor, Scott/Grigg
15 - Hogg, Jackson

Interestingly Visser hasn't played at all for quins and has been playing in the A-team - he seems to have fallen out of favour.

Not massively convinced by that backrow - lots of young talented players but when you compare it to the backrows of the Top 6 nations it is definitely not to their standard yet.

Anglobraveheart wrote:I thought that Grant was at Ayr, trying to regain world class status, but had struggled in that department whilst he had been training with Edinburgh.    
Low is still at Exeter, contracted to end of this season. He's a big lump, has loads of experience, is 'only' 32, which fr a prop isn't ancient. He could be an option.....

EWT Spoons wrote:Kyle Traynor has joined Leicester Tigers!!  What the hell!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Traynor is tied to Scotland too so Leicester must really rate him if they're willing to give him a squad place.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Could he get capped in the AIs given our LH shortage??

Exiledinborders wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Traynor is tied to Scotland too so Leicester must really rate him if they're willing to give him a squad place.

What difference does that make to Leicester?
.

Exiledinborders wrote:
Don't bank on him improving with Tigers. They are not a great development side. Their academy is barren ground hence them bring in the likes of Traynor.