Scotland Internationals - Game Week

First topic message reminder :

Scotland's 2017 Autumn Series



Saturday 11 November: Scotland v Samoa, Murrayfield Stadium (kick-off 14.30 GMT), live on BBC 1

Saturday 18 November: Scotland v New Zealand, Murrayfield Stadium (kick-off 17.15 GMT), live on BBC 2

Saturday 25 November: Scotland v Australia, Murrayfield Stadium (kick-off 14.30 GMT), live on BBC 1

Injury List

G Laidlaw
R Gray
J Barclay
M Bennet
A Dickinson
A Dell
G Reid
F Brown
R Ford
D Taylor
M Scott
A Ashe
S Maitland
J Hardie ( )

Scotland Squad here>>>>

https://i.servimg.com/u/f62/17/25/81/46/at17_s10.jpg

Is it true about Hardie?

Gwlad wrote:Is it true about Hardie?

apparently so, it's all being kept internal ie. no criminal charges, so you'd expect them to ban him from playing and then try and help him to get through his problem(s)?

it's a shame, we don't know what the circumstances are, if it's substance abuse or if he's just an idiot

He's been playing in the Currie cup and doing well by all accounts. They're in the final this weekend.

Squad announcement day! Hopefully he's found 31 fit players...

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's been playing in the Currie cup and doing well by all accounts. They're in the final this weekend.

Yes, apparently he played at IC in the quarters and semis. Let's hope to sh!t he doesn't get injured too.

Squad announced - a few talking points but the main one is there's a few players in there I've never heard of!

Head Coach Gregor Townsend has named ten uncapped players in a 36-man Scotland squad for next month’s Autumn Tests.

The national squad check in to camp next week and begin the 2017/18 season against Samoa at BT Murrayfield on Saturday 11 November - the only match for which tickets are still available - followed by tests against New Zealand and Australia, which sold out in July.

The uncapped group features four backs and six forwards, with centres Phil Burleigh (Edinburgh Rugby), Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons), wing Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) and scrum-half Nathan Fowles (Edinburgh Rugby) joined by front-row trio Jamie Bhatti, George Turner (both Glasgow Warriors) and Darryl Marfo (Edinburgh Rugby), Glasgow Warriors lock Scott Cummings and back-row forwards Luke Hamilton (Leicester Tigers) and Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh Rugby).

Bhatti, Burleigh, Cummings and Ritchie were involved in the senior Scotland squad in the summer camp in St Andrews, while Turner was also an uncapped tourist in the summer, so the selection stands as something of a recall, however it’s a first involvement for the remaining five.

Other notable inclusions sees full-back Stuart Hogg and wing Tommy Seymour return to the Scotland set-up, having missed the summer tour due to British & Irish Lions selection, while centre Huw Jones and Stuart McInally come back, having missed out on the summer tour through injury.

Scotland Head Coach Gregor Townsend, said: “The players selected have worked exceptionally hard at their clubs to earn inclusion in the national squad and we're looking forward to working with them throughout the autumn series.

"They will need to intensify their efforts further still to earn the opportunity and honour of play in front of capacity crowds in what are three exciting fixtures.

“We’re facing two of the world’s top three sides after a significant challenge from Samoa in our opening game. It will be an excellent challenge for our players.”

Former Glasgow Warriors back, McGuigan (28) played for Scotland 7s in 2012, making six tournament appearances.

He earned one Scotland A cap in 2014, scoring in the side’s 16-16 draw with England Saxons at Scotstoun. He joined current club Sale Sharks in 2016 and is joint top try-scorer in this season’s English Premiership.

Prop Darryl Marfo (26) has impressed at Edinburgh Rugby since arriving from Bath at the start of the season, featuring in every game so far this season. Born in London, he is eligible to play for Scotland through his mother, who is from Ayr.

Former Wales U20 player Hamilton (25) – whose father is from Stirling – joined Leicester in the summer of 2016 after two seasons in France with Agen, winning the Pro D2 in his first season.

He joined the Tigers last year and impressed in his recent starts in both of the club's European Champions Cup matches on the openside flank.

Fowles (24) joined Edinburgh Rugby in 2015, initially on a three-month loan from Sale Sharks, before committing to the club full-time ahead of the 2015/16 season, making 40 appearances so far.

Carlisle-born Harris (26) is a product of the Newcastle Falcons Academy and has played 57 times for the club since his 2014 debut, starting all but one of the club's matches in a season that sees them currently placed fourth in the English Premiership.

He is eligible for the national team through his grandmother from Edinburgh.

Unavailable through injury: Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors), Mark Bennett (Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Allan Dell, Alasdair Dickinson (both Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Gray (Toulouse), Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne), Sean Maitland (Saracens), Gordon Reid (London Irish), Matt Scott (Gloucester), Duncan Taylor (Saracens).

OK some key points:

- No Dell, Ashe or Duncan Taylor through injury
- Our loosehead options are Bhattie or Marfo
- Nathan Fowles is apparently 3rd choice
- No Tim Visser – McGuigan has obviously patched things up with Townsend
- Dougie Fife caps a remarkable return to the national team
- Falcons centre Chris Harries and Tigers openside Luke Hamilton are included

Arranged by position

LH – Bhattie, Marfo
H – Ford, Turner, McInally,
TH – Nel, Fagerson, Berghan
L- J Gray, Gilchrist, Cummings, Swinson, Toolis
6/8 – Barclay, CDP, Harley, Ritchie, Wilson
7 – Watson, Hamilton

SH – Price, Pyrgos, Fowles
10 – Russell, Jackson (15)
12 – Horne, Burleigh, Dunbar (he must be back from injury soon)
13 – Jones, Grigg, Harris
W – Seymour, Jones, McGuigan, Fife
FB - Hogg

Hamilton always gives his all one of those who i really like just not sure he is international level.

Well I always imagined that Toonie would throw a curve ball or two into the selection, but I have to say I did not see Hamilton or Harris coming and have to say like RDW I can't say I have ever heard of them.

That's not to say they are not decent players though, both Newcastle and Leicester are going well this season and I presume both have been playing well for them.

McGuigan is less of a surprise, top scorer in the league must count for something. Visser seems to have been in and out of the Quins team, though he did score a couple of tries the other week. He is probably a bit unlucky to miss out.

Fowles over SHC, I do struggle to see to be honest. He seems little more than a journeyman to me. SHC is talented, if maddingly inconsistent. If we were not going with him, then I would definitely have taken a prospect, like Steele, Horne or Vellacott.

Still we always knew it was going to be a bumpy ride with Toonie at the helm.

Hmm. Quite a few players there who don't strike me as test class - Burleigh, Fife, Fowles to name but 3. I still think that Lee Jones will get thrown around like a dog's chew toy against SH opposition and Barry has never really looked great against decent opposition. "Pete" Horne still has much to do in order to show that he can shine too.

I hope to hell that the backline is 9 Price 10 Russell 11 Not Visser 12 Dunbar 13 Jones 14 Seymour 15 Hogg because our forwards are going to struggle.

I am happy to see CDP given another chance to disappoint and Ritchie to step up but not at the expense of Josh Strauss. Why do we consistently fail to pick at least one serious ball carrier?

The problem with Fowles is just a visual one for me. Terribly unfair but he looks like a human pinkie ring with that Fauntleroyean mop. The sort of person who thinks it's fine to call waitresses 'darling'. Perhaps it's because he plays for Edinburgh. Who knows.

So making a guess at a 23 from that lot based on current form / experience (but it is Toonie so who knows), and also assuming Dunbar won't be fit in time for the first game

1 Bhattie
2 Mcinally
3 Nel
4 Gray
5 Toolis
6 Barclay
7 Watson
8 Wilson

9 Price
10 Russell
11 McGuigan
12 Horne
13 Jones
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

Subs - Marfo, Turner, Fargerson, Swinson, CDP, Pyrgos, Jackson, Jones

I'm not so confident!

Compare that to our everyone fit and on form XV and it is a bit of a step down

1 Dickinson/Dell
2 Brown
3 Nel
4 Gray
5 Gray
6 Barclay
7 Watson
8 Wilson/Strauss

9 Price
10 Russell
11 Seymour
12 Dunbar
13 Taylor/Jones
14 Maitland
15 Hogg

Yes Strauss fall from favour looks complete, Toonie knows him very well, so maybe knows something we don't. I don't know how well he has been playing for Sale, so hard to tell if it is justified or not.

CDP does seem to have been playing better recently, maybe having Cockers on his case was just what he needed. He was always felt to be the coming man, so maybe he is about to arrive. On the basis of the players in the squad, he probably should be the starting No.8.

I would see us with a back row of Watson, CDP, Barclay with either Wilson, or Ritchie on the bench.

Hard to see a backrow playing three games without any injuries though, so surely some of the others will be getting a shout as well.

Maybe Hamilton will turn out a bit like Cowan, who also came out of no-where and turned into a very decent international back rower.

Wow Chris Harris selected! Interesting...didn't even know he was available to them.

Strong Outside centre. He might surprise a few. Good pace, he plays on the wing aswell for us... and a ferocious defence.

Luke Hamilton is a decent, hard working journeyman. He has filled all the back row positions for us, but is (despite recent games) a 6/8. While he will always give to his absolute limit - like Welly I feel he is below international class. Some way below I feel.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Wow Chris Harris selected! Interesting...didn't even know he was available to them.

Strong Outside centre. He might surprise a few. Good pace, he plays on the wing aswell for us... and a ferocious defence.

Have you been impressed Geordie? Has he been consistently good recently? Does he have the potential to be test class?

Just noticed there's no Alex Allan and he's not listed as injured - he is capped so wonder why he's not there given we only have two looseheads.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just noticed there's no Alex Allan and he's not listed as injured - he is capped so wonder why he's not there given we only have two looseheads.

He will be next in line I would imagine if any injuries.

After that we may be going back to Kyle Traynor!

it also makes you wonder who is going to be turning out at LH for Edinburgh and Glasgow during the AIs...

Hope Radge still has his boots!

Struass has never really cut it at International level, he’s been ok, but nothing more, so not totally surprised he’s been left out.

CDP’s form is up and down currently, but a lot of that depends on what game he’s being asked to play, he’s got quick hands, likes to offload and is pretty happy taking the ball into contact.  If he can find the form that initially got him rave reviews then he could be well suited to international rugby.

Some questions for me on who will play LH and hooker.  Bhatti is a decent young player and could have a big future in the game, but Glasgow’s scrum seems to have been struggling of late (not sure how much of that is down to Bhatti and Glasgow fans will be better placed to comment on this) whereas Edinburgh’s scrum is probably one of the few positives and Marfo has been doing ok, he’s far from ideal and would be 4th choice at the club were everyone fit, but he’s held his own.  LH could go either way, but Bhatti and Townsends Glasgow connection could work in his favour.  Hooker – McInally has been in form and would be my pick for Hooker, but Fordy has the experience, and if you have Bhatti/Marfo making their international debut in the front row, it might be beneficial to have someone with Ford’s experience in there.   Plus McInally or Turner off the bench offers a lot more than Ford.

Locks pick themselves, Gray and Toolis
Back row of Barclay, Watson and (most likely) Wilson, are comfortable playing as unit and probably first choice anyway.

So in terms of the forwards that’s not a bad set, sure could be stronger in a couple of positions, but it’s not a million miles from first choice.

Backs, Price and Finn are first choice in their positions
Centre is a worry, Horne has struggled at centre at international level and I assumed was more thought of as a 10 these days for Scotland.  Burleigh is ok but isn’t first choice in his position for Edinburgh at the moment.  Dunbar can’t get fit soon enough, but only if he’s ready, not point rushing him back for a couple of friendlies (even if they are international friendlies)

Huw Jones has to be wrapped in cotton wool at training, Grigg didn’t really give a great account of himself last time he played for Scotland, but willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  No idea about Harris.

Wingers of Seymour, Jones and Hogg at FB seems realistic.  Not sure if Jones is up to International level and could easily be swapped out for McGuigan, but no idea if he’s up to it either.

So with the exception of a centre and a winger, that is probably not far from first choice either.

I guess what I am (painfully) slowly getting at is that it could be worse

RDW_Scotland wrote:it also makes you wonder who is going to be turning out at LH for Edinburgh and Glasgow during the AIs...

Hope Radge still has his boots!

Sutherland - He was on the bench for Hawick at the weekend (no idea if he got on) but a couple of weeks of training etc and he should be ready to start. Might be rusty as hell but will be fit/not injured

George Carlin wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Wow Chris Harris selected! Interesting...didn't even know he was available to them.

Strong Outside centre. He might surprise a few. Good pace, he plays on the wing aswell for us... and a ferocious defence.

Have you been impressed Geordie? Has he been consistently good recently? Does he have the potential to be test class?

He has been consistently good for 3/4/5/ years now mate like Mark Wilson whos just got his England recognition. He's a tall lean lad, pacy and quite elusive. Runs good lines. But his defence at 13 is very good indeed. He puts in the hits people expect the Samoans to make.

It'll be interesting if he is a premiership level player...or if he can take his game to the next level.

LH is going to be the glaring weakness in our pack, as we will be going in with two uncapped players. It does not really matter who starts and who benches, they will surely end up playing a half or so each.

Bhatti has been going well for Glasgow and the scrum (the one before HT when we gave away the try apart) held up pretty well against the Leinster (Irish) front row. Similarly Marfo seems to have nailed down the starting spot for Edinburgh and is getting good plaudits. However you look at it though, this is going to be a massive step up for both of them. Hopefully they will come out of the other side the stronger for it.

Who will hook is also the question?

Ford has hardly played this season and that seems to be based on selection and not injury. Cockers clearly has ideas about what he wants his hookers to do and that does seem to involve hooking the ball, something Ford has never been able to do.

He has preferred McInally as his starter, who finally seems to have learned to throw and brings a lot of other skills to the game. Turner has proved himself electric in the loose, but remains a bit lightweight in the front row, which may already be struggling.

If Toonie really wants to move the team on, he needs to look past Ross Ford, who may well struggle to be playing by the next WC in any case. Whether he feels this is the tournament to do so, with such a weak front row in any case, remains to be seen. If Fraser Brown was fit, then it would have been a much easier call.

Huw Jones was playing 12 last week for WP in the Currie cup semi and doing well at it in what I saw of the game.

So I guess a Jones/Harris combo might not be out of the question as well, with Horne on the bench to cover 10/12/15

I can't help but think back to last year's AIs when we were in a similar position at LH - Alan Dell had barely played for Edinburgh and was thrown straight in for Scotland and actually did well, going on to play in every Scotland game last season.

Whether the same will happen with Bhatti and Marfo I'm not so sure, but at least they've been playing regular rugby.

I’ve really enjoyed watching Chris Harris play at Kingston Park this season - a really intelligent, gutsy player. Who knew he was Scottish!

It just wouldn't be a toonie selection with some utterly baffling calls!

We know who they are! Even the players themselves will know who they are I suspect!

The thought of Horne and Lee Jones on the field at the same time trying to defend is utterly frightening!

I feel as though Townsend may have dropped Strauss and not selected Denton on a mix of form and style. Both big ball carriers who probably don't suit the Toonie philosophy of speed.

Interesting choices, I'll be interested to see how the pack gets on and if we'll see Nel starting alongside Bhatti or Marfo. Personally I'd go for an all Edinburgh front row of Marfo, Ford, Nel with Berghan, Bhatti and MacInally covering bench.

What happened to Welsh? Is he injured? Thought he'd be in the squad.

Backrow options look interesting as well, I'd stick with Barclay, Watson, Wilson personally and have either CDP or Ritchie on the bench.

Backline, here I would be asking, Horne or Burleigh at 12? Or do you go with Dunbar/Jones combo that did some terrific things in the 6N but also got punished by England. Personally I'd maybe drop Dunbar and add Burleigh at 12.

Back 3 of Hogg, Seymour with either McGuigan, Fife, or Jones competing for no.11 Jersey.

Guys are you sure former Wales U20 Luke Hamilton is available to you? It would be pretty embarrassing for Scotland to make the same mistake twice...

Well his father is from Stirling so he is covered there - which team is Wales' designated reserve team that counts towards national ties?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well his father is from Stirling so he is covered there - which team is Wales' designated reserve team that counts towards national ties?

Wales U20s. I'm not sure if he's tied to us though as he would have had to have played against France? He was a prominent figure in Wilson's U20 team.

Interesting. It's not like it is a secret that he was capped at under 20 level so I'd like to think that the SRU had definitively proven that he is eligible to play for Scotland!

Yeah you'd think they would do that this time around. I don't recall him playing alongside Shingler, Hamilton featured for Wales U20 the following season but so far I can't find any evidence to state that he's played against France.

Why is France important in all this - is that when Wales changed the designated reserve team to the Under 20s?

If I recall correctly, Wales and France designate their u20s as their official second international team. Shingler was tied to Wales because he featured in a game against France U20s. I'm pretty sure it's just Wales, France and now South Africa who do this but more will follow.

Doesn't the opposition team also have to have their u20 side their designated reserve team for it to trigger as being registered for one country, I'm pretty sure that's what scuppered the Shingler thing.  I assume therefore that France's designated reserve team is their u20 side.

I see Mikey beat me to it.

Anyway if he is eligible then good luck to the lad, he's been working his ass off since his move away from Wales. He's a good player but happened to come through at a time when Cardiff and Wales had too many 6's and 7's. I don't feel he's an 8, probably more of a 7 in the Robshaw mould though some Tigers' fans might disagree.

I guess given the SRU's announcement earlier this week about the expanded SQ initiative that that was a precursor to the selections of Hamilton & Harris and from now on there may well be players appearing in the squad that we had no real prior knowledge of, might be some more surprises come the 6Ns. However looks like Josh Bassett is a non starter.
On current form I'd have Berghan in the 22 ahead of Fagerson, for me the Edinburgh scrum is far stronger than Glasgow's and Berghan has really upped his all round game and fitness.

EWT Spoons wrote:Doesn't the opposition team also have to have their u20 side their designated reserve team for it to trigger as being registered for one country, I'm pretty sure that's what scuppered the Shingler thing.  I assume therefore that France's designated reserve team is their u20 side.

I think you're correct here and there were two sides whose U-20's would have tied him to Wales; France and , I think, Australia. Whichever, it is let's hope that this time the Numpties at Murrayfield have done their homework.

I see Glasgow have 19 players in the squad; Niko and Oscar Peterson possibly away too.

So, second rows on our books; Brian- injured, Jonny-Swinson-Cummings-called up, Oscar-probably off with USA. So Schiz and Bru in the boiler room?

My brother sent me an image showing the Glasgow squad with injured players and international call ups crossed out - there's only 23 remaining!

It is worth noting that not all Glasgow players will be unavailable for selection, but it certainly won't help preparation.

Not that there are any pro14 games scheduled but it’s still interesting

Unless I’m mistaken (which I probably am) between injuries and call-ups it leaves Glasgow with 4 props 4 hookers 1 lock 6 flankers 1 scrum half 3 fly half’s 1 centre and no fullbacks.

I know what you’re thinking. The mullet to fullback.

Not a big fan of all these changes - but then again I kinda trust Townsend and his hands been forced by injury. Sorry that J Strauss has been omitted - the guy is a beast.

Ah excellent, we’re back to selecting anyone who’s ever set foot in Scotland just to get a complete squad together. Fairly embarrassing, but I suppose we have to pick someone given the injury list at the moment!

I wouldn’t have Fowles in there, and although I’ve enjoyed watching Hamilton play for Tigers I’m not convinced he’s an international class player. It’s going to be an interesting series for sure though, going to be a lot of pressure on our key players to turn up from the start, and a fair few of them are not long back from injury!

It wouldn't be a Scotland announcement if I didn't have to Google a few members of our squad!!

I'm happy for Cummings and Ritchie though. Very bright prospects.

Jackson is surely there as back up full back / utility back? Horne will be back up 10 to Russell but baring injury Russell will play every minute

Tramptastic wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Is it true about Hardie?

apparently so, it's all being kept internal ie. no criminal charges, so you'd expect them to ban him from playing and then try and help him to get through his problem(s)?

it's a shame, we don't know what the circumstances are, if it's substance abuse or if he's just an idiot

Who said Scots players can't find the white line eh!!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good news for Scotland - Isreal Folau is being rested by the Aussies for the upcoming tour. We play them at the end of a 5 game run so hopefully they'll be fairly beaten up by the time the come to us!

Hopefully they'll have their tails up by time they meet Scotland.

They should account for the Barbarians and Japan relatively unscathed. For the matches against Wales and England I can understand your comment. However RDW, don't forget the Samoan & NZ fixtures should equally tenderise your blokes... just a touch. Should be some good games there.

I've just been reading through the posts over the last 3 days since my reply to the above quote.
Heck... that's quite a substantial injury/non-selection list.

Gwlad wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Is it true about Hardie?

apparently so, it's all being kept internal ie. no criminal charges, so you'd expect them to ban him from playing and then try and help him to get through his problem(s)?

it's a shame, we don't know what the circumstances are, if it's substance abuse or if he's just an idiot

Who said Scots players can't find the white line eh!!

I know right? tied 2nd for total tries scored in the 2017 six nations AND most coke lines done in the loos of Garibaldis!!

I've always felt that the most accurate cinematic representation of Scotland would be a blend of Braveheart and Trainspotting