Scotland v Australia 25th November

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Scotland v Australia
25th November 2017
BT Murrayfield Stadium

ko 14.30
Coverage BBC/BT Sport

While the overall balance in this fixture leans heavily towards Australia, it is also fair to say that the Aussie's don't have the hex over Scotland in the same way that the All Blacks do. Scotland have won on several occasions, including their most recent fixture in Australia in the summer and before that was the infamous (from a Scottish perspective) WC quarter final, with a certain dubious reffing decision, that may have had an impact on the result.

Australia were in the middle of a post WC slump during the summer, from which they have largely recovered now, but similarly Scotland were missing a few key players and it could well be argued are a more complete side now.

Probably more influential on the result will be what the two games this weekend have taken out of the two teams, particularly in terms of injured players.

Australia ended up well beaten by England, but with a score line that did not really reflect the match, in fact, with a few of the more marginal calls going their way, the result could easily have gone the other way. They did however worryingly run badly out of steam in the last 10 mins when the match ran away from them.

Scotland, on the other hand, despite taking a horrible injury toll against NZ, actually finished the game the stronger team and how often can that be said when playing the blackness.

My worries for Scotland are that they may have lost, from an already inexperienced side, just one or two players to many; as well as just how can they possibly get themselves back up again after playing so well and getting nothing to show for it. This match will actually be a massive test for them in terms of their progress. Are they just a team that can get themselves up for a big game, or can they be consistently good now and back up a performance with another. In the 6N last year and on the summer tour, they failed to do that and to move forward, they need to start doing so.

lostinwales wrote:
There are real issues too. Had a good look around Green and Gold which is a great site, with its combination of intelligent and wonderful insights and some incredibly sore losers . There does seem to be a feeling that Cheika only likes certain kinds of characters around the squad and that it lacks leaders. Also that he has managed to alienate players. How on earth they did not fight harder to hang onto Scott Fardy I will never know.

Hmmm. Trying to offload their coach?  A game like that is often the best way

No doubt that the Aussies were flat for 30 minutes but having come back with two quick tries and both centres making yards almost at will and with a dominant scrum, the sending off of Kepu was the obvious turning point. Managing to work the try after the break with 20 phases with such a disciplined and clinical attack was mighty impressive.But after that it was almost as if the lights went out in defence, exemplified by Barclay stepping through 3 attempted "tackles" at the end for his try.
If i was Steven Moore i would try to forget this dismal end of an illustrious career as quickly as possible and retain the memories of your first test against the same opponents back in 2006.  Moore has been a great ambassador for his country and his sport , I hope he has a long and happy retirement.

I didn't get to see the game...when did Kepu go off? How much of the game were they down to 14?

At around half time - on 39 minutes to be precise

Congratulations Fellas. Stunning result really after so many years of close results. Horrible result for us, but probably a fitting end to what has been a year to forget. Good luck in Feb with the 6 Nations.

boomeranga wrote:Congratulations Fellas. Stunning result really after so many years of close results. Horrible result for us, but probably a fitting end to what has been a year to forget. Good luck in Feb with the 6 Nations.

lostinwales wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The end of Cheika?  Or would that be too rash, considering Australia have time to get themselves back in order before next WC...and have been given the right shock treatment to help the study of where everything is going wrong.

Maybe a game too far. Maybe beating the AB's took a lot out of them. Following that with a good fight with Wales, then getting roughed up big time by us left them open to being hammered by the Scots.

For all the brilliance of the Scottish attacking play there is no way that some of those tries should have been scored. However much deserved Barclay's try was he should not have been able to make it. Too much of the defense was powderpuff in that 2nd half.

First I have read that Scotland's good score was actually down to Wales. I love it.

Well that was absolutely amazing. I'll say it now, Scotland have one of the best attacks in world rugby. A tremendous bit of analysis here:

The 22 entries for Scotland's amazing 53-24 win against Australia. Basically, Scotland scored (usually a try) EVERY time they entered the Wallabies' 22. Over the last 2 weeks, the Scots have been in the All Blacks and Wallabies 22 on 19 occasions.

This was the most points ever scored by Scotland against a Tier I team. The previous best was a 41-31 win against Argentina in 2014, followed by a 38-10 win against Ireland over 20 years ago.

Scotland scored at least 20 points in 9 of their 11 Tests in 2017.

Like Scotland today, New Zealand also broke 50 points against Australia this year but the All Blacks had 15 visits into the Wallabies' 22 whereas Scotland today required just 9.

https://twitter.com/SimonGleave/status/934479994264449027

We really have become a very potent attacking force, and it's not just because of Hogg. Russell keeps defenders guessing, we also have a potent threat at 13 in the form of Jones, Ally Price brings dynamism at 9 that Laidlaw simply can't. BMcG has also been a terrific find and Rambo now looks like a real hooker with an accurate line out, solid scrum and a pocket battleship in the loose. As for our backrow, I'm still not sold on Wilson, but Barclay and Watson are an absolute menace at the breakdown. An amazing autumn test series.

I'm going to Cardiff for the opening 6n match... Can't wait!

carpet baboon wrote:Not a bad game of rugby that.
Is Hamish Watson some sort of genetic experiment? Never seen so much power in such a small fella.

Congratulations lads. Brilliant score.

Watson is one of the strangest things I can recall seeing on a rugby pitch.

He's 6ft and 14st 9. But he plays like a much bigger man. Over the ball he's one of best turnover operators Scotland has ever had.

The NZ Herald said it best - that Watson and Hooper play 10kg larger than their actual size.

All the bluff and bluster around size. Size doesn't matter in rugby. It's all about strength (or speed)

Tim visser is a huge broke. Defensively though, powder puff. Hamish is little but strong as hell.

It's about strength of body and of mind. Yes, as a general rule, the bigger you are the stronger you are but it's not cast iron. You'll always get little dudes who are weak, a la Horne furra linee. But you'll also get wee blokes who are ridiculously strong a la Watson hooper or Back

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was absolutely amazing. I'll say it now, Scotland have one of the best attacks in world rugby. A tremendous bit of analysis here:

The 22 entries for Scotland's amazing 53-24 win against Australia. Basically, Scotland scored (usually a try) EVERY time they entered the Wallabies' 22. Over the last 2 weeks, the Scots have been in the All Blacks and Wallabies 22 on 19 occasions.

This was the most points ever scored by Scotland against a Tier I team. The previous best was a 41-31 win against Argentina in 2014, followed by a 38-10 win against Ireland over 20 years ago.

Scotland scored at least 20 points in 9 of their 11 Tests in 2017.

Like Scotland today, New Zealand also broke 50 points against Australia this year but the All Blacks had 15 visits into the Wallabies' 22 whereas Scotland today required just 9.

https://twitter.com/SimonGleave/status/934479994264449027

We really have become a very potent attacking force, and it's not just because of Hogg. Russell keeps defenders guessing, we also have a potent threat at 13 in the form of Jones, Ally Price brings dynamism at 9 that Laidlaw simply can't. BMcG has also been a terrific find and Rambo now looks like a real hooker with an accurate line out, solid scrum and a pocket battleship in the loose. As for our backrow, I'm still not sold on Wilson, but Barclay and Watson are an absolute menace at the breakdown. An amazing autumn test series.

I'm going to Cardiff for the opening 6n match... Can't wait!

Scotland played well enough but you are in danger of going over the top here. You need to bear in mind that they were playing against fourteen players for most of the game.

All true - we need to calm down a bit but I did like Paul Cully in the Sydney Morning Herald's 'things we learned' column who highlighted that Finn Russell could grow into the finest 10 in world rugby.

George Carlin wrote:All true - we need to calm down a bit but I did like Paul Cully in the Sydney Morning Herald's 'things we learned' column who highlighted that Finn Russell could grow into the finest 10 in world rugby.

Not lions material though

(Yes went there lol)

Indeed - since it's come up in jest - how much truth might there be in the notion that the Lions snub just added fire and brimstone to Scotland players and charged their batteries?

Or maybe Dave Rennie has got his Scotland contingent at Glasgow even fitter than they were in previous seasons?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Not a bad game of rugby that.
Is Hamish Watson some sort of genetic experiment? Never seen so much power in such a small fella.

Congratulations lads. Brilliant score.

Watson is one of the strangest things I can recall seeing on a rugby pitch.

He's 6ft and 14st 9. But he plays like a much bigger man. Over the ball he's one of best turnover operators Scotland has ever had.

Ever time I see him play at some point I'm asking how in the fudge has he done that. He's an absolute machine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42068847

Unselected Low scores winner vs Saracens today

SecretFly wrote:Indeed - since it's come up in jest - how much truth might there be in the notion that the Lions snub just added fire and brimstone to Scotland players and charged their batteries?

Or how the only player to really go on tour with the Lions in Seymour had the worst set of games in a Scotland jersey?

Hazel Sapling wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Indeed - since it's come up in jest - how much truth might there be in the notion that the Lions snub just added fire and brimstone to Scotland players and charged their batteries?

Or how the only player to really go on tour with the Lions in Seymour had the worst set of games in a Scotland jersey?

Maybe its that Scots don't compete in the 6 Nations. I fully expect that to change this term though and if they can kick on no reason why they can't compete for the laurels.

One last post to finish this thread off.

What a fantastic day at Murrayfield and so proud to have been their to witness it.

I am one of those rare people who have actually seen Scotland win more than lose when I have been to see them live, including a grand slam, an away win over England, two WC wins against Samoa and a home win against South Africa!

The atmosphere on Saturday was like nothing I had been to before. It was like a carnival that you did not want to leave. The 1990 grand slam was a different kind of game, on a knife edge until the very last kick, so no-one was really ready to completely let themselves go. The South Africa game, well it was not even full and everyone seemed quite surprised that we actually won!

This was different, the game was won, we were still playing great rugby and you had to pinch yourself to remember that it was Australia we were playing. We do not beat them by 50 points, it just dose not happen, or rather it did not. I can still hardly believe it!

It is a good show at Murrayfield now. A library no longer it would seem. I joyfully sang along (or should I say shang along) to the Bay City Rollers sound track along with 67,000 others in near ecstasy! My son was rather quizzically asking who the hell are the Bay City Rollers, but he managed to master the chorus pretty quickly. He is a bright lad, if I say so myself.

So, as they say, build it and they will come. We just had to provided the rugby and the atmosphere followed as if by magic. By what they have been saying, the players appreciated it and played for it as well!

The guard has changed...it used to be Wales who could beat anyone on their day but often didn't now its Scotland who apparently can beat anyone on their day having just lost a game to NZ ...we shall see but have to say i used to regards Scotland as a sure thing come 6 Nations time, now i'm afraid it will be tough but we will still win, on our day.

And here was me thinking that this was a Scotland/Australia thread?