Ulster Rugby 2017-18

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Jeez - O’Donoghue eeled his way through that maul and caught Herring.

Amazing given the competition for places than Deegan has made 10 appearances already. You have to credit Leinster, they not only have a production line but they give the youngsters a chance.

Overall, not as strong a team as I expected from Leinster but should still have enough to see us off fairly comfortably.

I'm glad we've given some youngsters a chance but worry that most of the squad will treat it the same way we did the Connacht match, whereby we've already allowed for a loss.

With La Rochelle the week after it should be an incentive to put their hand up and Im sure the euphoria from Munster will carry through, it's just down to whether Rodney decides he wants to play or not

Let's hope so Marty.

We're doomed

I expect so Pete.

You lot really know how to do New Year Cheer and optimism

Was a bit bemused at selection initially, but it seems like everyone else is injured

My optimism fell out during the first half against Munster, I can't find it.

marty2086 wrote:  

15. Jordan Larmour (11)
14. Fergus McFadden (161)
13. Garry Ringrose (43)
12. Robbie Henshaw (19)
11. Barry Daly (17)
10. Ross Byrne (38)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (41)
1. Jack McGrath (122) CAPTAIN
2. James Tracy (54)
3. Tadhg Furlong (75)
4. Devin Toner (208)
5. Scott Fardy (11)
6. Josh Murphy (2)
7. Jordi Murphy (96)
8. Jack Conan (64)

16. Seán Cronin (142)
17. Ed Byrne (16)
18. Andrew Porter (19)
19. Mick Kearney (28)
20. Max Deegan (10)
21. Nick McCarthy (16)
22. Johnny Sexton (142)
23. Noel Reid (92)

That front row is going to paste us in the scrum, big time.

The latest from UAFC "All Sorted, Good news winging it's way across the Pacific".

I do wish they'd just come out with it and stop teasing

Pete330v2 wrote:The latest from UAFC "All Sorted, Good news winging it's way across the Pacific".

I do wish they'd just come out with it and stop teasing

I really hope it doesn't turn out to be Donald after all this hype. Still hoping it's Sopoaga.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:The latest from UAFC "All Sorted, Good news winging it's way across the Pacific".

I do wish they'd just come out with it and stop teasing

I really hope it doesn't turn out to be Donald after all this hype.  Still hoping it's Sopoaga.

If it's Donald just for a few months then It won't be to bad. If it's longer then mmmmeeeehhhhh. Bit of a waste.
If it is sopoaga then blooming Norah a jig will be jigged.

carpet baboon wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:The latest from UAFC "All Sorted, Good news winging it's way across the Pacific".

I do wish they'd just come out with it and stop teasing

I really hope it doesn't turn out to be Donald after all this hype.  Still hoping it's Sopoaga.

If it's Donald just for a few months then It won't be to bad. If it's longer then mmmmeeeehhhhh. Bit of a waste.
If it is sopoaga then blooming Norah a jig will be jigged.

Donald is 34, it would need to be short term. Sopoaga out of contract in August. I would much rather make do with Nelson for the rest of this season and have Sopoaga in place for next then take Donald on a 2/3 year contract.

No word is an accident over there. I believe ‘winging’ is intentional and meant to imply something. But by the same token, many over there justenjoy making up fake teases.

I thought that too Clive. They do like their riddles.
Here a new one from there that has no riddles though, from KOTH "Nelson apparently pulled from H cup squad and mcphillips included. Is that possible?"

cough* Defence cough*

Amazing to see Stewart try and jackel the ball there.

F*** off Clancy. That's textbook coming in at the side of the maul.

How Leinster coming through that maul was even remotely legal I don't know.

....and because he didn't call could be looking at a yellow card.

His pass is a bit slow Stewart but I'd be happy if we don't play Marshall again.

Piutau is having a really awful game. Missing key tackles, running down blind alleys, throwing passes to nobody in particular. He was lucky to get away with that last mistake with no Leinster try.

As has Deysel.

Bit harsh on Stewart not seeing the game out but I suppose he gets to have Lealiifano outside him and bringing Cooney on gives McPhillips a bit of control inside him.

Leinster simply don't bother with the choke tackle anymore. Very few teams do.

Sexton's pass was, indeed, wonderful. I suspect he knew he had Trimble defending and would try the usual breaking the defensive line.

Our best jackel's tonight have been in the backs.

That we haven't scored a point yet with this wind is ...... disappointingly predictable.

I'm afraid that's typically embarassing even against the form NH side. There has been nothing to offer other than predictable cluenessness. The coaching crew should be disgusted in themselves.

Predictable that Ah You tries to take a ball which was too far behind him. He should have just left it.

Ulster were lucky they weren't nilled. The single score was more because Leinster took their foot off the gas. The difference was huge tonight. If Leinster wanted to they could have put 50 on us.

It's basically where I expected Ulster to be, both with selection and more generally squad depth.

I'm sorry to say lads the wild optimism some of you were showing after the Quins game was way off the mark. The warning signs were there, and if it wasn't for Arnold's red card we could have been looking at 3 defeats against our 3 fellow provinces. Our squad isn't great and, unlike previous seasons, even on our day the first XV won't beat top European teams.

That's were we are at the moment.

Yes Redman, don't think there was one Ulster player would have made the Team of the match. Ulster are being forced to recruit Leinster thirds, and that is a fair reflection of the difference in the sides. Neither Best not Henderson are looking untouchable for a green shirt, and Stockdale shredded his 6N claims. Profitius was bigging up Larmour as a RWC pick and there is no way Jacob should be picked ahead of him for Ireland - even Ferg outplayed him tonight.
Ulster need to protect their key non-6N players by leaving them out of the next two games as Europe is now irrelevant. If they don't there is a real chance they won't be in the ERCC next year

The Great Aukster wrote:Yes Redman, don't think there was one Ulster player would have made the Team of the match. Ulster are being forced to recruit Leinster thirds, and that is a fair reflection of the difference in the sides. Neither Best not Henderson are looking untouchable for a green shirt, and Stockdale shredded his 6N claims. Profitius was bigging up Larmour as a RWC pick and there is no way Jacob should be picked ahead of him for Ireland - even Ferg outplayed him tonight.
Ulster need to protect their key non-6N players by leaving them out of the next two games as Europe is now irrelevant. If they don't there is a real chance they won't be in the ERCC next year

It's sometimes too easy to see things clearly match per match... but I still think caution and a long term view of what actually happens when the International side comes together is the best approach at working out these conundrums.  Larmour (for now...in the now - nobody can predict the future) is truly a special player that just seems to have this extra sense for those evasive moves that more than often seem to work.  He is a mouth-watering prospect for us at International level, IF he gets there and IF he is capable of repeating the stardust stuff at that much higher level of rugby.

And there is the rub.  Larmour shines in a Province that has always shone in that kind of game that allows backs to express themselves and enjoy their natural instincts.  Ireland International is a much more pragmatic set-up.  Ireland (as we all now know from years of criticisms in this place and others) don't play like Leinster and much of the stuff we saw tonight from a revved up, attack orientated and impulsively playful Leinster would horrify our International coaches.  
So one would hope that IF Larmour gets his shot that he'd be used in the way Leinster allow him to play AND in having a team with him that is set up to support each other at such a risk taking, inventive gameplan.  Larmour as a player can't exist as he does without the team around him that facilitates his skill set.  Larmour could cut and dash as much as he wants at Ireland level but might just begin to look a bit of a fool if the team aren't set up to go with his instantaneous gut instincts.  Dare a player be caught out of position in a Joe Schmidt International team because he felt the urge to chase after Larmour to support one of his off-the-cuff numbers.  If it fails - both would get the hairdryer treatment.... and if it succeeded, they still might get an earful about keeping to systems.
I know Joe knows talent when he sees it, and nobody could doubt what Larmour potentially has and what he could give to Ireland...but Joe is Joe and, at International level, he has his theories and they don't seem to be shifting too dramatically towards the version of rugby his old Province still try to play.

And all that feeds back to Jacob Stockdale too.  He's on the other side of the coin at Provincial level.  He can't do everything and at times it seems his teammates want him to.  They want the special from him but....well, you have to have the side ready to assist a player like him.  At Ireland, surrounded by great Provincial players from all four Provinces, he has the tools to let his confidence levels in his own skill flourish.

I just don't think it's an easy task to judge International form on current Provincial form.  Leinster currently have many of the tools available to make any player look good.  Larmour has it...but he has the team game plan ready and more than willing to help him look so good too.

It'd be a big call but I think I agree with that Aukster.

If they want to target 1 game, then it should be Wasps away. Targeting both would be foolish with the squad we have at the moment and the way Cockerill has got Edinburgh performing recently.

SecretFly wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Yes Redman, don't think there was one Ulster player would have made the Team of the match. Ulster are being forced to recruit Leinster thirds, and that is a fair reflection of the difference in the sides. Neither Best not Henderson are looking untouchable for a green shirt, and Stockdale shredded his 6N claims. Profitius was bigging up Larmour as a RWC pick and there is no way Jacob should be picked ahead of him for Ireland - even Ferg outplayed him tonight.
Ulster need to protect their key non-6N players by leaving them out of the next two games as Europe is now irrelevant. If they don't there is a real chance they won't be in the ERCC next year

It's sometimes too easy to see things clearly match per match... but I still think caution and a long term view of what actually happens when the International side comes together is the best approach at working out these conundrums.  Larmour (for now...in the now - nobody can predict the future) is truly a special player that just seems to have this extra sense for those evasive moves that more than often seem to work.  He is a mouth-watering prospect for us at International level, IF he gets there and IF he is capable of repeating the stardust stuff at that much higher level of rugby.

And there is the rub.  Larmour shines in a Province that has always shone in that kind of game that allows backs to express themselves and enjoy their natural instincts.  Ireland International is a much more pragmatic set-up.  Ireland (as we all now know from years of criticisms in this place and others) don't play like Leinster and much of the stuff we saw tonight from a revved up, attack orientated and impulsively playful Leinster would horrify our International coaches.  
So one would hope that IF Larmour gets his shot that he'd be used in the way Leinster allow him to play AND in having a team with him that is set up to support each other at such a risk taking, inventive gameplan.  Larmour as a player can't exist as he does without the team around him that facilitates his skill set.  Larmour could cut and dash as much as he wants at Ireland level but might just begin to look a bit of a fool if the team aren't set up to go with his instantaneous gut instincts.  Dare a player be caught out of position in a Joe Schmidt International team because he felt the urge to chase after Larmour to support one of his off-the-cuff numbers.  If it fails - both would get the hairdryer treatment.... and if it succeeded, they still might get an earful about keeping to systems.
I know Joe knows talent when he sees it, and nobody could doubt what Larmour potentially has and what he could give to Ireland...but Joe is Joe and, at International level, he has his theories and they don't seem to be shifting too dramatically towards the version of rugby his old Province still try to play.

And all that feeds back to Jacob Stockdale too.  He's on the other side of the coin at Provincial level.  He can't do everything and at times it seems his teammates want him to.  They want the special from him but....well, you have to have the side ready to assist a player like him.  At Ireland, surrounded by great Provincial players from all four Provinces, he has the tools to let his confidence levels in his own skill flourish.

I just don't think it's an easy task to judge International form on current Provincial form.  Leinster currently have many of the tools available to make any player look good.  Larmour has it...but he has the team game plan ready and more than willing to help him look so good too.

That’s it in a nutshell, Fly. The chances of seeing either Stockdale or Larmour being allowed to express themselves are minimal - cos it’s all about safe rugby at test level. Ireland and Schmidt will probably be back to McFadden, Kearneys and Earls come February. They’ll probably put Payne back in if he’s suddenly available. Carbery, Larmour, O’Halloran, Stockdale, Sweetnam, Wootton, McCloskey, Farrell, Byrne, McGrath, Conan, Leavy, O’Donoghue, Thornbury, Dillane, Porter can all get a chance to shine in RWC23.

I see the BBC have an article up where Bryn has said the 10 signing will be announced next week. As for who, the excellent journos havebonce again written down the names they found on Internet forums. Cooper and Donald.

On that, I commented recently that a recent quote of ‘good news winging its way across the pacific’ was sure to be wordplay/riddle. Whether fabricated or not I wonder if the tenuous link may be Donald ... Duck... wing...
Who knows, but that’s how some of those boys think over there.

One last thing... anyone else fed up by the BBC repeatedly suggesting that Lealifano has been some sort of wonder signing in his time here? I mean better than anything we have, but come on, he’s been far from world class.

I think that’s a tad disingenuous Clive. He isn’t beauden Barrett but he’s been bloody good. Perhaps not in terms of pinging the corners etc but let’s not forget the pack he has providing him with a ‘platform’. Some of the hits he has put in (and taken) and turnovers he has won have been hugely impressive. God knows where we would be without him and for someone on a 6 month contract he’s invested a hell of a lot of himself into the team. Well done sir.

It's all perspective. I think you need to ask how much worse off could we be. Quite a bit really.

He's been dropped into a misfiring team, a pack going backwards, with a 9 new to the club, a backs coach which is new to the club, in a position which isn't his best. He's been expected to mentor the youngsters, play nearly everygame, captain the side on occasion, kick posts, kick sidelines and has lead from the front with some terrific defense.

There are plenty of mercenaries who have gone to France for more money and contributed an awful lot less.

All of this having come back from cancer not 12 months ago.

To boot he seems a really top guy.

I understand your point Clive in that he's not the world's best 10 but his commitment and overall contribution can't be faulted and I think it's fine to laud that.

On your point about the replacement Clive, I agree I think it's Donald too.

I can't be bothered to dig out the timestamp from the BBC iPlayer bit but if you watch Bryn when asked about whether the experience of Cooper or Donald would add to the team. He was stuck for words and grinned a bit, finally chipping in with "Yes either of them would ..."

The Duck reference passed me by but would be a very nice word play. Good spot on that.

Personally I'd prefer Giteau, who has been mentioned in the last week. Not a All Black obviously. I just have it in my head, totally absent of any evidence - that Donald hasn't played any real top flight rugby and isn't wanted anymore. Giteau still seems to be in demand.

Regardless of who it is we need to blood someone. That someone looks potentially like McPhillips at the moment but we need some sort of indigenous medium term solution.

Nothing against the guy but personally I’d call him handy, useful, I’d maybe even stretch to ‘very good’. But BBC are working with words like superb, fantastic and stellar.

I in no way begrudge the signing of the guy, just don’t buy the BBCs ability to report on reality. ‘Superb form this season’ . I’m not sure I’d have said that about any Ulster player this year. And if I had to, there would be handful higher in the pecking order than Christian.

At 7-0 down on 14mins Gusher says ‘another try here and this could be curtains for Ulster’.
Ok yes, we did get hammered in the end... but it’s a bit ridiculous to say any game is done and dusted at 14mins with a 12-0 scoreline.

The question is... are we about to hear the announcement of another short term cover signing? Or will it be long term? Or will it be short term followed by a different long term signing in the summer?

I suppose Donald will do fine until Sopuoga comes in for next season...

Lealiifano in the last month has found his feet at fly half though against Leinster he wasn't at his best, not helped by Stewart and his Marshall impression.

On Larmours first try, am I the only one who thinks it should have went to the TMO to look at Ringrose and Cave? Even if it wasn't a penalty, someone from Ulster should have been asking the question like Munster did a week before

marty2086 wrote:
On Larmours first try, am I the only one who thinks it should have went to the TMO to look at Ringrose and Cave? Even if it wasn't a penalty, someone from Ulster should have been asking the question like Munster did a week before

Did anyone else notice that Henderson appears to be quicker than Trimble?? I rewatched it a few times. Both were full tilt and yet Henderson passed Trimble.

Happy new year everyone.

Jesus wept Ulster defence is appalling, like something you'd see in u-13s. I wonder how many points we've conceded in the last 5 games?

The double over Harlequins and a great second half comeback against a 14 man Munster have papered over the cracks in what has been a woeful first half of the season.

Those we absolute drubbings from both Connacht and Leinster, easily some of the worst performances in years. The ease with which both opened us up, and for that matter Munster was embarrassing.

To be perfectly honest if we got Dan Carter at 10 it wouldn't salvage our season, something is really rotten at Ulster at the minute, most of the players don't even seem to be trying.

Sorry to see Bowe injured again, I wonder if this might be a season too far for him and Trimble looks to have very little left in the tank either.

The shift between being error prone in the first half against Munster and being more clinical in the second half then reverting back against Leinster shows that the problem is mental with the players, McCloskey is one of the worst offenders for it too. He just doesn't look after the ball in contact at times

I don't know if some of the issues lie with the coaches but this is a problem that predates the current regime, when teams get in Ulsters face the players can't handle it. It was the same against La Rochelle and will probably be the case on Saturday too.

It's how Ulster are without the ball that worries me most Marty, the defense is just so passive and the missed tackles are unforgivable.

Stockdale was culpable for 3 tries, Piatau for 1, it is just schoolboy stuff.

Even McFadden  whos as average as they come was making line breaks for fun, that line he just ran off Sextons shoulder was just so easy to defend, instead Cave gets sucked to the ball carrier and the outside defender has already drifted and no one picks up McFadden running through a huge gap, it is unbelievable to see it at this level.

The only thing I've seen worse from a pro team was our maul defense against Munster.

Part of the issue is clearly the structure and the slow drift defense leaving the outside backs exposed but also individually players just falling off tackles, it is embarrassing to watch.

I don't think the system helped but there were times I watched and thought we were going to be opened up and the system seemed to work, the lack of pressure though allowed Leinster to shift the ball with ease though and gave them too much freedom.

The likes of Piutaus tackle lie at the feet of the players, that was a bread and butter tackle that he butchered, he seems to have reverted back to last seasons approach and it's maybe symptomatic of problems at the club.

marty2086 wrote:Lealiifano in the last month has found his feet at fly half though against Leinster he wasn't at his best, not helped by Stewart and his Marshall impression.

On Larmours first try, am I the only one who thinks it should have went to the TMO to look at Ringrose and Cave? Even if it wasn't a penalty, someone from Ulster should have been asking the question like Munster did a week before

There was definite contact and I thought it would have gone to TMO. They were giving out to Cave for biting in on the dummy runner so it was obvious to everyone. It was at least worth a look. Mind you I also thought that JGP was flat for Larmour's kick but the pace he was running that line made him look offside (it was worth more than 1 replay from that just that off angle).

Leinster beat what was in front of them but injuries to furlong, conan, ringrose took the edge of the good mood.

Ulster were horrid, that was close to full string lineup. Henderson looks like he is starting to tire coming off the lions and so much rugby, Best was half a yard off the game, Stockdale had more negative plays than positive ones (some a matter of inches in the difference), Leliafano played decent but was hampered by quality of ball and Piutau (he played a howler, even getting stood for Daly's run in didn't shame into waking up and playing properly, he was verging on a liability for the match).

Piutau travelling to the other side of the world and back, then playing two derby games in five days might go some way to explaining his sluggishness?

What I don't understand is that if Ulster have signed a flyhalf, why he isn't in Belfast now and training with the team so that he gets a chance to integrate?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Lealiifano in the last month has found his feet at fly half though against Leinster he wasn't at his best, not helped by Stewart and his Marshall impression.

On Larmours first try, am I the only one who thinks it should have went to the TMO to look at Ringrose and Cave? Even if it wasn't a penalty, someone from Ulster should have been asking the question like Munster did a week before

There was definite contact and I thought it would have gone to TMO.  They were giving out to Cave for biting in on the dummy runner so it was obvious to everyone.  It was at least worth a look.  Mind you I also thought that JGP was flat for Larmour's kick but the pace he was running that line made him look offside (it was worth more than 1 replay from that just that off angle).

He looked a yard or so ahead of the kick to me but it wasn't so much the ref not looking but that Ulster didn't seem to ask him to. There just seemed to be an acceptance of the decision and maybe an inevitable defeat. That's why I mentioned Munster, they have that snarling, battling spirit whereas Ulster seemed to have a more grovelling, bottling spirit

The Great Aukster wrote:Piutau travelling to the other side of the world and back, then playing two derby games in five days might go some way to explaining his sluggishness?

What I don't understand is that if Ulster have signed a flyhalf, why he isn't in Belfast now and training with the team so that he gets a chance to integrate?

Well if it's Giteau, he's a bit busy this week playing in the play offs in Japan so maybe that's a good sign as to who It is

Any player coming in though Im sure has to go all sorts of immigration checks so they might only be getting clearance this week and they can't train until they comes in

Donald on the other hand. I can't see any evidence of him having played in months. There's an interview from the summer where he described himself as 'unemployed' but not finished with rugby. I can't see what he has been doing since. If he was free at that time, why did we sign Lealifano for half a season and not Donald for the whole season?

As Marty says almost certainly not yet available

I'll go out on a limb - its not Donald

Redmans assessment of CL is fair - under the circumstances he has done very well for us and deserves our admiration
One of the few positives

Someone said Stewart passing like Marshall - err no
Stewart is too slow and needs to improve but his passing is accurate, with Marshall it is all over the place.
Completely different problem.

Someone said Stockdale, Best and Henderson have blown their 6N starts - nonsense they will be there.
Stockdale, maybe, just maybe, suffered from not playing on the wing for 3 weeks.
If Kiss stopped playing the hokey kokey with selection players may just develop some consistency of performance.

Well we now know who was responsible for the totally undercooked Ah You and McCall starting against Munster - Dundon.
He should be castigated for that - they should have been playing AIB.
He persuaded Kiss whilst Gibbes was away - maybe that was why Gibbes was shaking his head.
Also a bit rich when Dundon said we have had has some players missing in action in recent weeks (true) - trouble is two of the worst
culprits were players you insisted on playing !

I see the pudding was absent again
Got too more names I'll use from now on
Logan - the Scarlet Pimpernel. Never has a man who has been so visible and so prominent gone missing
Disgracefully weak management
Kiss - Dorothy. Lives in a fancy world

It was me who commented on Stewarts passing geoff, Lealiifano was having to catch the ball above his head a few times and it stunted an already weak attack when it happened. Remember someone having to catch a pass off their toes at one point too. Given it was his first start and against one of the best teams around, it's not hard to put it down to nerves.