Basteraud in trouble?

First topic message reminder :

I see the daggers are out for Basteraud after calling someone a f*&king faggott.

Is this the PC / I'm offended brigade going OTT or should he be banned like Marler was over the gypsy boy case.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2018/01/6117/mathieu-bastareaud-shocks-fans-as-homophobic-slur-is-heard-worldwide

GeordieFalcon wrote:How did the player who he said it to react? I bet he didn't even bat an eyelid...

Quit that!

Scottrf wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Can't say I've been racist or homophobic at work no. Yourself?

I'm not sure he's really been homophobic. It's basically just a swear modifier, the same way people use the word like his surname without meaning it literally, or the W word.

I can accept that Bastareaud probably doesn't dislike homosexuals. But nevertheless he he used faggot as an insult. How are homosexuals who like rugby supposed to take that? That their sexuality can be used matter of factly when insulting someone? Whether Bastareaud dislikes homosexuals or not, he needs to be an adult and realise that 1) regardless of his intentions, it's possible for his words to contribute towards homophobia in rugby and 2) he's not allowed to say things like. There are rules against it.

Someone else has suggested that if the person receiving the insult wasn't bothered by it then it's okay. See above for why it's not okay, but also, that's not how the world works. You can go into work and call your best friend a faggot safe in the knowledge that he's your best friend and would never report you. However, should anyone else hear it, they could report you and you could still be sacked.

I just think, it's 2018, there's no need for homophobia in sport anymore and furthermore, people should be able to take responsibility for their own words and not just get to brush them off.

That word isn't exclusively a homophobic word for a gay person any more so why should it automatically be deemed homophobia. More often than not these days it's used to describe someone who's being Cat, which in itself could either mean a cat or a lady's fun place. It does however mean neither but refers to someone who is of weak character which, brings us back to the 'offending' word used by Basteraud. If you are offended by such a word you are a cat.

IS it just me, or is this thread actually quite good fun for trying to work out how to discribe words so everyone knows what you mean without saying it?

My 8 year old was sent home from school the other day.  When I asked why it turned out they used bad language.  I said to then “Your teacher told me why you were sent home.  You used the C word, you know that’s not clever!”, they replied “no dad, it’s c¥%#”

Kumquat????

Your kid said love?

Wot a little basteraud!



I knew the censor boys would fade that out. But sure isn't it dumb too as now Kumquat is the new Dreadful Word that needs banning coz I know what I think when I'm typing it.

SecretFly wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:How did the player who he said it to react? I bet he didn't even bat an eyelid...

Quit that!    

If anyone does not think homophobia is an issue in professional sport, rugby included.

How many professional footballers have ever come out as gay? One to my knowledge and he ended up killing himself, a real tortured soul.

How many professional rugby players? One to my knowledge and one referee. Both thankfully have been made welcome within the rugby community.

In many other sports, people are only happy to come out long after they have retired.

It is so massively at odds with the number of gay people in society in general that it is only reasonable to assume that a lot more players choose to repress themselves for the risk of harming their careers.

Robbie Rogers too.

Personally I think this whole area is very grey and we need to be careful where we go. For example for me personally there is nothing wrong with what Marler said, calling him a gypsy boy. But im a guy who is not easily offended by things.

I personally see nothing wrong with what Basteraud said INSIDE the rugby environment, however I can see why has blown up OUTSIDE of the rugby environment.

The reason is, me and my pals talk to each other like that regular at the rugby clubs and in the pub etc. if I had a penny for everytime someone has said to me.."come on you f'ing w*nk*r drink up we're off to the next pub" or "pass the ball you d!ckhead" I'd be a millionaire. Yet no offence is ever meant. Its a term of endearment if anything.

However people OUTSIDE the rugby environment still watch games and probably aren't used to that sort of behaviour, and possibly don't understand it, and subsequently will find what Basteraud said highly offensive. For example they probably take more offence than the lad it was actually aimed at.  

Its a different mentality at times...and anyone who tries to deny it, is kidding themselves.

With that in mind rugby players simply HAVE to show some intelligence that what goes on in the clubhouse and the training pitch, stays there, as EVERYTHING they say on a rugby pitch will be heard!
Marlers case has proven this.

At the same time we have to get the right balance of sensibleness. Its a physical game that can occasionally boil over - punches will be thrown, things will be said.
How these are dealt with and disciplined must be done correctly!

BigGee wrote:If anyone does not think homophobia is an issue in professional sport, rugby included.

How many professional footballers have ever come out as gay? One to my knowledge and he ended up killing himself, a real tortured soul.

How many professional rugby players? One to my knowledge and one referee. Both thankfully have been made welcome within the rugby community.

In many other sports, people are only happy to come out long after they have retired.

It is so massively at odds with the number of gay people in society in general that it is only reasonable to assume that a lot more players choose to repress themselves for the risk of harming their careers.

Just come out would be the advice from most people. Society is full of successful gays in all walks of life. Society is full of very very successful gays. There are role models all over the planet. Society is conscious of them, society is smart. Wasn't it only recently that Barry Manilow felt he could come out? And most of us were sighing..."but sure...like.... Barry.... we knew. We knew Barry."
Nigel Owens is loved - certainly by Irish followers. He's a great rugby ref with a little thing we love called personality and bite. He just happens to be gay too.... most Normal heterosexuals (and they are the majority, believe me) don't care what sexuality he is...it's the man that is respected - who he is, not what he is.

I'd bet that Basteraud doesn't give a schidt either. Indeed, if he consciously knew a certain player was gay he might have refrained from the comment because he would have been more conscious of his choice of words. His choice of words were, in my opinion, anger and frustration and using common 'offensive' terms to vent it. That's why people vent - being offensive is venting.

On that would the ref have taken action if it was Nige who had the whistle ?

This reminds me of the me too things going round. A lot of people (men in general) saying ah no it isn't s problem get over it. And those that get it. Maybe in another 10 to 15 years it'll get better, just as it's better now than the 70s.

GeordieFalcon wrote:"pass the ball you d!ckhead"

You should be more careful. Having a d!ck on your head is a protected characteristic.

No 7&1/2 wrote:This reminds me of the me too things going round. A lot of people (men in general) saying ah no it isn't s problem get over it. And those that get  it. Maybe in another 10 to 15 years it'll get better, just as it's better now than the 70s.

No I get it, 7. I get it. I don't get it down your direction of understanding but I get it. Gays are sometimes men, BTW - just to be clear on the topic.

Scottrf wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:"pass the ball you d!ckhead"

You should be more careful. Having a d!ck on your head is a protected characteristic.

Ah I know...especially when they call me weener boy! Hurts my feelings....

No 7&1/2 wrote:This reminds me of the me too things going round. A lot of people (men in general) saying ah no it isn't s problem get over it. And those that get  it. Maybe in another 10 to 15 years it'll get better, just as it's better now than the 70s.

You are correct 7.5

But also different groups and mentalities must be taken into consideration so things don't go OTT

I have black and gay friends, and within them...many have a "couldn't care in the least attitude people need to stop being so affected by everything" and others who are offended by the slightest thing.

The big picture as well is that social media is creating a different world...one ill be honest Im finding difficult to like.

SecretFly wrote:

BigGee wrote:If anyone does not think homophobia is an issue in professional sport, rugby included.

How many professional footballers have ever come out as gay? One to my knowledge and he ended up killing himself, a real tortured soul.

How many professional rugby players? One to my knowledge and one referee. Both thankfully have been made welcome within the rugby community.

In many other sports, people are only happy to come out long after they have retired.

It is so massively at odds with the number of gay people in society in general that it is only reasonable to assume that a lot more players choose to repress themselves for the risk of harming their careers.

Just come out would be the advice from most people.  Society is full of successful gays in all walks of life.  Society is full of very very successful gays.  There are role models all over the planet.  Society is conscious of them, society is smart.  Wasn't it only recently that Barry Manilow felt he could come out?  And most of us were sighing..."but sure...like.... Barry.... we knew.  We knew Barry."
Nigel Owens is loved - certainly by Irish followers.  He's a great rugby ref with a little thing we love called personality and bite.  He just happens to be gay too.... most Normal heterosexuals (and they are the majority, believe me) don't care what sexuality he is...it's the man that is respected - who he is, not what he is.

I'd bet that Basteraud doesn't give a schidt either.  Indeed, if he consciously knew a certain player was gay he might have refrained from the comment because he would have been more conscious of his choice of words.  His choice of words were, in my opinion,  anger and frustration and using common 'offensive' terms to vent it.  That's why people vent - being offensive is venting.

There are role models in pretty much all walks of life other than professional sport and it is easy for us to say just come out.

Colin Jackson and the swimmer that came out recently and it was an open secret that they were both gay both said the same thing, that they did not want the fact that they were coming out, to distract them from their athletic careers. They did not want to have to deal with the media storm and be known as the gay swimmer or the gay athlete. Their colleagues and largely the press, though there was plenty of innuendo concerning Jackson, repected their wishes on that and fair play to them for doing so.

The fact remains that athletes in general, male athletes in particular though not exclusively, are still not comfortable coming out.

Incidents like this and the media storm it is causing won't help that situation.

Let's face it as well basteraud was aiming.to be a nasty ignorant sod with this not the sort of banter some have been trying to address here

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:"pass the ball you d!ckhead"

You should be more careful. Having a d!ck on your head is a protected characteristic.

Ah I know...especially when they call me weener boy! Hurts my feelings....

This isn't about hurt feelings, it's bigger than that. It's about being gay being seen as a negative. That's oppression. As long as it's used as an insult, it'll continue to be seen as a negative. Things that aren't seen as a negative just don't work when you add them to swearing to form an insult do they. "You f***ing nice person", "You f***ing good player", "You f***ing hero". None of those work. Make no mistake, when Bastereaud added the word Faggot to his f***ing, he meant the faggot to carry a negative connotation, otherwise the insult just doesn't work. Does that mean he hates gay people, no not necessarily. But it's not right that he should have used homosexual as a synonym for w***er, for example.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:This reminds me of the me too things going round. A lot of people (men in general) saying ah no it isn't s problem get over it. And those that get  it. Maybe in another 10 to 15 years it'll get better, just as it's better now than the 70s.

You are correct 7.5

But also different groups and mentalities must be taken into consideration so things don't go OTT

I have black and gay friends, and within them...many have a "couldn't care in the least attitude people need to stop being so affected by everything" and others who are offended by the slightest thing.

The big picture as well is that social media is creating a different world...one ill be honest Im finding difficult to like.

You just need to look at America there seems to be a growing trend of people there (going form social media) that almost go hunting for things to be ‘victimised’ about. Almost as if it’s a competition to be the first to be offended.

Does the right to offend not have the same importance as the right to take offence, when it comes to freedom of speech? I know I will get stick for saying it, but does it not ring true. As if you can not say things that offend/oppose others viewpoints then are the anti-homophobia comments on here not offensive to (for argument sake) people who take their religious scriptures as literal texts on how to live their lives etc.

cascough wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:"pass the ball you d!ckhead"

You should be more careful. Having a d!ck on your head is a protected characteristic.

Ah I know...especially when they call me weener boy! Hurts my feelings....

This isn't about hurt feelings, it's bigger than that. It's about being gay being seen as a negative. That's oppression. As long as it's used as an insult, it'll continue to be seen as a negative. Things that aren't seen as a negative just don't work when you add them to swearing to form an insult do they. "You f***ing nice person", "You f***ing good player", "You f***ing hero". None of those work. Make no mistake, when Bastereaud added the word Faggot to his f***ing, he meant the faggot to carry a negative connotation, otherwise the insult just doesn't work. Does that mean he hates gay people, no not necessarily. But it's not right that he should have used homosexual as a synonym for w***er, for example.

I think he would be facing a ban even if he hand used w%^ker and it has been picked up on the mic (just like James Davies did for his sign language last season)

The world really is gone mad. Where I come from calling your friend a fagott is as common as saying hello to them. To think Basterau will be banned for this is laughable. It was nothing more than a throw away slag in the heat of the moment...what's next jail time?

I reckon this has all been blown out of proportion. People get called things like this on every walk of life.

I get called more when I have a hissy fit with my boys in work, come on, it's the heat of the battle, testosterone is pumping, they are hitting seven shades out of each other, getting called that should be the least of their worries.

So you'd be fine if basteraud himself had been told shut up n*****. Heat of the moment and all.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you'd be fine if basteraud himself had been told shut up n*****. Heat of the moment and all.

If you get offended by words coming from somebody else's mouth on a rugby pitch, you should really look at yourself.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you'd be fine if basteraud himself had been told shut up n*****. Heat of the moment and all.

Would you be fine if the opponent that said that was also black himself? They can say it, in cruel and hateful terms btw - it can be spit out with venom. Are people offended by the language blacks sometimes use to each other?

LordDowlais wrote:I reckon this has all been blown out of proportion. People get called things like this on every walk of life.

I get called more when I have a hissy fit heated exchange of words with my boys in work, come on, it's the heat of the battle, testosterone is pumping, they are hitting seven shades out of each other, getting called that should be the least of their worries.

Fixed it for you LD.

SecretFly wrote:

BigGee wrote:If anyone does not think homophobia is an issue in professional sport, rugby included.

How many professional footballers have ever come out as gay? One to my knowledge and he ended up killing himself, a real tortured soul.

How many professional rugby players? One to my knowledge and one referee. Both thankfully have been made welcome within the rugby community.

In many other sports, people are only happy to come out long after they have retired.

It is so massively at odds with the number of gay people in society in general that it is only reasonable to assume that a lot more players choose to repress themselves for the risk of harming their careers.

Just come out would be the advice from most people.  Society is full of successful gays in all walks of life.  Society is full of very very successful gays.  There are role models all over the planet.  Society is conscious of them, society is smart.  Wasn't it only recently that Barry Manilow felt he could come out?  And most of us were sighing..."but sure...like.... Barry.... we knew.  We knew Barry."
Nigel Owens is loved - certainly by Irish followers.  He's a great rugby ref with a little thing we love called personality and bite.  He just happens to be gay too.... most Normal heterosexuals (and they are the majority, believe me) don't care what sexuality he is...it's the man that is respected - who he is, not what he is.

I'd bet that Basteraud doesn't give a schidt either.  Indeed, if he consciously knew a certain player was gay he might have refrained from the comment because he would have been more conscious of his choice of words.  His choice of words were, in my opinion,  anger and frustration and using common 'offensive' terms to vent it.  That's why people vent - being offensive is venting.

Why is being gay offensive? I think I know why it's common, probably because too many people defend it and say, it's alright he didn't mean it like that, or if "you're offended by that that's your problem" or say, "it's always been that way" "PC gone mad". I understand that it's common, but I don't understand why being gay is considered derogatory enough to be classed as a common offensive term?

cascough wrote:Why is being gay offensive?

You're the one that thinks faggot is offensive. Perhaps you're homophobic

rodders wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I reckon this has all been blown out of proportion. People get called things like this on every walk of life.

I get called more when I have a hissy fit heated exchange of words with my boys in work, come on, it's the heat of the battle, testosterone is pumping, they are hitting seven shades out of each other, getting called that should be the least of their worries.

Fixed it for you LD.

Reckon we're not far off having delayed tv transmission.
5Star, Matt Bianco?

Scottrf wrote:

cascough wrote:Why is being gay offensive?

You're the one that thinks faggot is offensive. Perhaps you're homophobic

No-one is going to answer this, because to do so will undermine any logic they were using to form an argument that says "its okay to say that to someone".

cascough wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

cascough wrote:Why is being gay offensive?

You're the one that thinks faggot is offensive. Perhaps you're homophobic

No-one is going to answer this, because to do so will undermine any logic they were using to form an argument that says "its okay to say that to someone".

Probably the association with people who fake their personality to make themselves camp for whatever reason. Goes against the masculine environment in rugby.

EDIT: I don't think it is okay to say btw. I just don't think he was thinking about homosexuality when he said it.

Viewer discretion warnings on match tickets and on tv maybe?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:This reminds me of the me too things going round. A lot of people (men in general) saying ah no it isn't s problem get over it. And those that get  it. Maybe in another 10 to 15 years it'll get better, just as it's better now than the 70s.

You are correct 7.5

But also different groups and mentalities must be taken into consideration so things don't go OTT

I have black and gay friends, and within them...many have a "couldn't care in the least attitude people need to stop being so affected by everything" and others who are offended by the slightest thing.

The big picture as well is that social media is creating a different world...one ill be honest Im finding difficult to like.

You just need to look at America there seems to be a growing trend of people there (going form social media) that almost go hunting for things to be ‘victimised’ about.  Almost as if it’s a competition to be the first to be offended.  

Does the right to offend not have the same importance as the right to take offence, when it comes to freedom of speech?  I know I will get stick for saying it, but does it not ring true.  As if you can not say things that offend/oppose others viewpoints then are the anti-homophobia comments on here not offensive to (for argument sake) people who take their religious scriptures as literal texts on how to live their lives etc.

I am genuinely having a lot of trouble with the current society. All this reality TV (do you really think I want to watch Peter Andres life on TV!!!!???) , twitter, instagram etc. Go out these days in a bar, and you'll see a table of young people not talking, just all sitting looking at their phones, breaking that up with the occasional selfie. Its depressing. The amount of people ive nearly ran over because they are walking across the street not looking where they're going on their phone is unreal.

I do have facebook which I occasionally go on, but half my "friends" the ones who will walk past you in the street without acknowledging you are blocked, because they continually post continuous drivel like..."just been to the bog" " man im fuming" (looking for responses) , or post pictures of their dinner with NOM NOM

And as you say, this social media has now given a platform for people to be keyboard warriors of justice for every imaginable type of perceived "bad behaviour"

Its not taking society in a good way....

I'm genuinely a little surprised in this sort of thing being defended. Guess I shouldn't be with brexit and trump etc but yes.

Scottrf wrote:I don't think it is okay to say btw. I just don't think he was thinking about homosexuality when he said it.

Neither do I. I reckon he was just insinuating that he should man up/grow a pair/stop acting like a baby type of jibe.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you'd be fine if basteraud himself had been told shut up n*****. Heat of the moment and all.

If you get offended by words coming from somebody else's mouth on a rugby pitch, you should really look at yourself.

Anything goes is a pretty dangerous line to take.

So if anything goes for players, what about fans? Is monkey chanting on the terracing or throwing bananas onto pitch acceptable, should they take offence at that. Professional players need to set the example, that is part of their responsibility to the game and to society in general. If you are doing something on tv in front of potentially millions of people, you are going to be judged to a higher standard.

Yes that is football and as others have said we like to think that this sort of stuff does not exist in rugby.

Some things are worthy of offensive I am afraid, on or off a rugby field.

You have always got to look at the context in what is said before you start throwing accusations around though. Surely the people wanting this punished need to realise this ?

I am 100% confident that Basteraud did not mean what he said in a homophobic way. I am 100% confident he meant it in a man up type of way. Which can apply to gays or non gays.

Anyway, I am offended that people only think that gay people can get offended by this.

LordDowlais wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I don't think it is okay to say btw. I just don't think he was thinking about homosexuality when he said it.

Neither do I. I reckon he was just insinuating that he should man up/grow a pair/stop acting like a baby type of jibe.

yeah I don't think Bastereaud dislikes gay people. But why is being gay a synonym for acting like a baby? please explain to me what it is about being gay, that dictates "f***ing faggot" means you should grow up?

BigGee wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you'd be fine if basteraud himself had been told shut up n*****. Heat of the moment and all.

If you get offended by words coming from somebody else's mouth on a rugby pitch, you should really look at yourself.

Anything goes is a pretty dangerous line to take.

So if anything goes for players, what about fans? Is monkey chanting on the terracing or throwing bananas onto pitch acceptable, should they take offence at that. Professional players need to set the example, that is part of their responsibility to the game and to society in general. If you are doing something on tv in front of potentially millions of people, you are going to be judged to a higher standard.

Yes that is football and as others have said we like to think that this sort of stuff does not exist in rugby.

Some things are worthy of offensive I am afraid, on or off a rugby field.

who is saying anything should go? We are talking about name calling and clearly some people have to grow up and stop going out of their way of trying to be offended by something as ridiculous as this. This wouldn't have even been news worthy 10 years ago and now this player will be banned. Where is the line going to be drawn??? These things actually do more to divide society than good.

LordDowlais wrote:You have always got to look at the context in what is said before you start throwing accusations around though. Surely the people wanting this punished need to realise this ?

I am 100% confident that Basteraud did not mean what he said in a homophobic way. I am 100% confident he meant it in a man up type of way. Which can apply to gays or non gays.

Anyway, I am offended that people only think that gay people can get offended by this.  

In what context is using homosexuality as a synonym for an insult acceptable? What am I missing?

LordDowlais wrote:You have always got to look at the context in what is said before you start throwing accusations around though. Surely the people wanting this punished need to realise this ?

I am 100% confident that Basteraud did not mean what he said in a homophobic way. I am 100% confident he meant it in a man up type of way. Which can apply to gays or non gays.

Anyway, I am offended that people only think that gay people can get offended by this.  

I think he should and will be punished. Just trying to say that words evolve and take on new meanings, and I don't think it was specifically a homophobic slur.

cascough wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Scottrf wrote:I don't think it is okay to say btw. I just don't think he was thinking about homosexuality when he said it.

Neither do I. I reckon he was just insinuating that he should man up/grow a pair/stop acting like a baby type of jibe.

yeah I don't think Bastereaud dislikes gay people. But why is being gay a synonym for acting like a baby? please explain to me what it is about being gay, that dictates "f***ing faggot" means you should grow up?

What has a faggot got to do with being gay ? A faggot is a traditional Welsh food, why not haggis ? I don't know.

As for your gay synonym question, OK, I have got to chose my words carefully here, I guess it's because some gay people act like women, especially when they "camp up" so to speak. That's not all gays though, one of my oldest friends is gay, I have known him all my life, and he has never acted any differently to how he always has.

I hope I have answered your question correctly, I also hope that nobody gets offended by my answer, I have re-read it over a couple of times, and I have tried to be as diplomatic as I can with it.

cascough wrote:yeah I don't think Bastereaud dislikes gay people. But why is being gay a synonym for acting like a baby? please explain to me what it is about being gay, that dictates "f***ing faggot" means you should grow up?

A large proportion of outwardly homosexual people have a very fake effeminate personality. That's presumably where it comes from.

Cardiff Dave wrote:Viewer discretion warnings on match tickets and on tv maybe?

Post watershed games?


This is how weird the world has become actually.  In the 70s...on normal terrestrial TV....well how can you put it, there was lashings of nudity and sex and bed hopping and crude language and all kinds of stuff.... and it wasn't considered smut either... it was high art television drama, notable actresses and actors, renowned playwrights etc.  It was an age of enlightenment and casting off the shackles of oppression and stuffy grey post-Victorianism.

Now, they have programs on TV where the newer generations talk about these shows and plays as though they came from another world.... a terrible, disgusting, dirty, racist and vile world "that wouldn't be allowed on TV these days"

And what's on TV these days?  Endless crappy soaps where people don't even talk proper like wot they would in real life and instead get mad to the point of killing people but never use a profanity in speech.  What else do we have?  We have sport, sport and more sport, we have presumed 'edgy' comics on comic panel shows that never really say anything edgy at all but just go along with the tribe and make fun of real rebels and real edgy souls that challenge the cosy PC world these 'edgy' comics inhabit.

But then...then....here's the good bit.  These nice people that hate crude and offensive TV from back in the stone age.... they turn off the TV when they get time on their own and chase down the lovely Internet version of sleaze and filth and grime and offensive images and words.... they listen to their favourite hard core rap artists that make Trump sound like Gandhi.... they look at their regular supply of something called 'Porn'...that in this era is almost grotesquely lifeless and soul destroyingly numb, cold and sub-humanly mechanical.

They get through all that in the night time..... and back in daylight, 'It ain't Half Hot Mum' and Gollywogs are again frowned upon in the endless pursuit of "purity, equality and fraternity of one-soulness for all" (I think that was the line Oprah forgot at the awards ceremony)

Could all hypocrites on Earth put their hands up please? *Hand up*

The latest load of bollox I have heard, are people campaigning to have "man holes" re-named as "person holes".

Where does all this end ????????

Shut up Lady Dowlais!

LordDowlais wrote:The latest load of bollox I have heard, are people campaigning to have "man holes" re-named as "person holes".

Where does all this end ????????

Apparently, man in that instance is from the Latin to mean hand, as in manual.

LordDowlais wrote:The latest load of bollox I have heard, are people campaigning to have "man holes" re-named as "person holes".

Where does all this end ????????

I'd call them Insurance Claim Possibilities....