Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

I was thinkung similar McCloskey for me has been better than Arnold and Farrell and just isnt being picked. Hopefully a resurgent Ulster will make it all better

clivemcl wrote:So... The Schools Cup Final is now a ticketed event and it costs £18 for a stand seat or £14 for terrace?
SERIOUSLY???

Was it not last year clive?

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:As I said he explicitly said there will be no Director of Rugby.

A hands on Head Coach who has experience of coaching and understand what it means to run a Province/Club at this level.
He will run the show and will be responsible for the rugby.
Beyond appointing the Head Coach other roles not defined because that individual is central to deciding what those roles might be.
Did say they would like at least one Ulsterman on the coaching ticket but at the same time said they will not force the Head Coach to take on such an individual and that ability was more important than being an Ulsterman
On the surface it makes sense.

Sorry I got all that Geoff, I just meant with the coach having an input into the recruitment of players I wasn't sure if there was a clear line of demarcation when it came to responsibility for what end of it as it seems to have been an issue with Kiss.

Marty if you want to be clear as to where the buck stops then my reading of the meeting (and a brief chat afterwards) is:

When he was here David Humphreys called the shots over and above McLoughlin and Anscombe
Since then and up to now Les Kiss had the final say
For the rest of this season (crucial this includes 2/3/4 new NIQs) it is Cunningham
Next season ? - depends on the new Head Coach and his relationship with Cunningham

What was interesting was Bryn said what a great signing Murphy was
However he also said they hope to have the Marty Moore who played for Leinster.
The clear implication was he had gone to seed whilst at Wasps but they think they can turn him round
Also the explanation of VdeMerwe was worrying.
Implication was we signed him based on 3/4 year data because of limited game time at Montpelier and Kings
Sounds like another panic buy, ala Deysel, in this case to beat the 3 year project deadline in December.
Almost a case of we must get someone on a 3 year project regardless of quality - bad move

marty2086 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:So... The Schools Cup Final is now a ticketed event and it costs £18 for a stand seat or £14 for terrace?
SERIOUSLY???

Was it not last year clive?

I've no idea - refuse to go on principal to the final of a competition whose existing is detrimental to Ulster rugby

geoff999rugby wrote:
Next season ? - depends on the new Head Coach and his relationship with Cunningham

That's what I was afraid of

geoff999rugby wrote:However he also said they hope to have the Marty Moore who played for Leinster.
The clear implication was he had gone to seed whilst at Wasps but they think they can turn him round

I know Danny Cipriani made a few comments about Wasps S&C staff whereby he basically said he was in better condition when he worked with other staff and almost laid the blame for his injury lay off at their door. Their injury list this season may support it too

That being said, we don't have a great history of keeping props fit for long

Crikey our S&C staff will be volunteers if the club get their way so if he wants to stay fit he's probably not coming to the right place!

Would be interested to see how Moore and Murphy feel about things, I get the impression the opportunity to work with Kiss and Gibbs was one of the reasons they moved to Ulster.

FYI clive

March 17 2016

Ulster Rugby have defended the ticket pricing structure for the showpiece St Patrick's Schools' Cup final between RBAI and Campbell College at the Kingspan.

Some 7,000 spectators are expected to descend on the home of Ulster Rugby for the clash.

Tickets for the game can cost up to £30 for an adult and £16 for a under 16s - plus booking fees.

A family of five can buy a ticket for £41 and a family of four a ticket for £35.

In comparison, for the GAA's MacRory Cup final and MacLarnon Cup final in Armagh on Thursday, tickets cost £4 for children and £8 for adults.

While the All-Ireland Club Hurling Final in Dublin in Croke Park featuring Cushendall, costs under 16s £4 and adults £20.

Ulster and Ireland rugby legend Willie Anderson said - given Ravenhill's 18,000 capacity - money was needed to pay for stewarding and to ensure health and safety

Ulster Rugby, in a statement, said the money raised was used to help develop the game.

"Tickets for the 2016 Schools’ Cup Final are accessible from £6 for children and £14 for adults, while there is also a family offer available," the statement said.

"This pricing structure is similar to last year’s final and is in line with comparable rugby events hosted by other provincial branches.

"There are significant costs in hosting a game of this magnitude, which will have in the region of 7,000 spectators inside a newly refurbished stadium. The majority of these costs are for stewarding to ensure the safety of those attending.

"Revenue from the Schools’ Cup Final and other games held at Kingspan Stadium is continually re-invested to grow the game across the Province. This investment has led to an increase in participation in mini rugby, female rugby and disability rugby in recent years.

"Ulster Rugby continually reviews its pricing structure and all feedback is welcomed."

Kyle Goodwin linked to ulster next season according to super rugby commentators!
He's a 12 so that would fit with our outhalf recruiting structure. He's also been plagued by injury which would strengthen the link. Flippin hell.

On a brighter note Herron has been offloaded at last to the Jersey Reds.

Think its Connacht for Godwin Pete or at least i hope so

rodders wrote:Crikey our S&C staff will be volunteers if the club get their way so if he wants to stay fit he's probably not coming to the right place!

Would be interested to see how Moore and Murphy feel about things, I get the impression the opportunity to work with Kiss and Gibbs was one of the reasons they moved to Ulster.

Good point rodders. But I guess it's still a better opportunity for them to put themselves in contention for International - plus, I suppose on one level it's exciting to wonder about what coach/s they might get now especially given how much Ulster will want to get their next one right! The player will hope they get someone who will point them in the right direction.

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:
Next season ? - depends on the new Head Coach and his relationship with Cunningham

That's what I was afraid of

Why ???
I don't think Cunningham has any desire to take responsibility and will gladly hand it over
He sees himself as stop gap in this regard just whilst he gets the show back on the road

My belief is if the Head Coach wants it he will have it
Essentially the new Head Coach could demand the earth and he would get it.
Ulster simply have to get this appointment right

Goodwin would surprise me unless Jackson is definitely away

Cunningham touched on injuries.
He said you wont find a 24 year old professional player who hasn't had shoulder, knee or ankle trouble - that's the game these days.
He also mentioned the player we have signed with the worst injury record - Cooney
and he has been fine.

Led to a lighter moment when it was suggested that was the kiss of death.

Pete330v2 wrote: On a brighter note Herron has been offloaded at last to the Jersey Reds.

The promised clear out of dead wood begins

The problem is if you look at what Ulster have indicated, someone experienced at running a club/province it doesn't leave many options.

We won't attract anyone from the French or English leagues and even if they did it is unlikely they would accept the remit laid out by the IRFU with regards player welfare, restrictions around signings.

So you are looking at getting someone from the SH or someone previously at one of the other provinces.

I'd love to see Lancaster take over but can't see him leaving Leinster. I wonder if Matt O'Conner might be interested,

Another person who should be in consideration is Brian McLaughlin but it seems he burned his bridges.

Matt O'Connor?

Seriously rodders?

Matt O'Connor should not be anywhere near the job and wont be. No way Nucifora and Schmidt will subject themselves to him again. Its impossible to know who is available and who (if in a job) would consider moving to Ulster. Mallinder obviously has pedigree and i have some sympathy for him and Dorian West was considered a good forwards coach (i dont know are they both unemployed). My own preference is for a SHer, probably a kiwi like Tony Brown or Jamie Joseph. No idea if they're available. Dave Rennie would have been perfect.

SecretFly wrote:Matt O'Connor?

Seriously rodders?

Beggars can't be choosers Fly.

geoff999rugby wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:
Next season ? - depends on the new Head Coach and his relationship with Cunningham

That's what I was afraid of

Why ???
I don't think Cunningham has any desire to take responsibility and will gladly hand it over
He sees himself as stop gap in this regard just whilst he gets the show back on the road

My belief is if the Head Coach wants it he will have it
Essentially the new Head Coach could demand the earth and he would get it.
Ulster simply have to get this appointment right

That might not be the worst thing but it seems we've went from a DoR who was head coach and a head coach who was a forwards coach to a head coach who could be a DoR. Just seems they are messing around with titles rather than saying this is your responsibilities and this is mine. Just smacks of the NI approach, power is shared so no one gets too powerful and to me we need someone to take the reigns and ownership of it all

Standulstermen wrote:Mallinder obviously has pedigree and i have some sympathy for him and Dorian West was considered a good forwards coach (i dont know are they both unemployed). My own preference is for a SHer, probably a kiwi like Tony Brown or Jamie Joseph.

Mallinder was off to Cardiff but pulled out a few days ago and West is still at Saints against everyones wishes. He won't be there next season, he's apparently a throwback and Mallinder was told to get rid and wouldn't so was booted instead.

That's not how I read it.

The impression I have got is Ulster previously defined a role to fit it with existing personnel and then shoe horned the newcomer into that role.

Now all bets are off - the new Head Coach will be responsible for whatever he wants to be.
The structure will be built around their skills and their wishes.
Bryn implied if the Head Coach wants to take on multiple roles - Backs, Defence, Forward he can or if he wants to bring people in for those roles he can. The new Head Coach will call the shots, he will define his role.
This is why there will be no DofR overseeing him.

We have not recruited a Head Coach will that sort of remit for well over a decade - Alan Solomons perhaps

marty2086 wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Mallinder obviously has pedigree and i have some sympathy for him and Dorian West was considered a good forwards coach (i dont know are they both unemployed). My own preference is for a SHer, probably a kiwi like Tony Brown or Jamie Joseph.

Mallinder was off to Cardiff but pulled out a few days ago and West is still at Saints against everyones wishes. He won't be there next season, he's apparently a throwback and Mallinder was told to get rid and wouldn't so was booted instead.

That doesn't seem right to me, even if he got rid of West I reckon Mallinder was on borrowed time

One other point Bryn touched upon was recruitment for the Academy

Previously he said there had been too much emphasis on big blokes now the emphasis was on rugby brains and the right attitude
Mention Lowry as a player with a rugby brain as an example - young fly half who is Shane Williams size

Also pulled no punches on the unacceptable nature of many of this years performances and that teams come to Ulster expecting a hard nosed pack (Because of the past) when in reality we are a bit soft

geoff999rugby wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Mallinder obviously has pedigree and i have some sympathy for him and Dorian West was considered a good forwards coach (i dont know are they both unemployed). My own preference is for a SHer, probably a kiwi like Tony Brown or Jamie Joseph.

Mallinder was off to Cardiff but pulled out a few days ago and West is still at Saints against everyones wishes. He won't be there next season, he's apparently a throwback and Mallinder was told to get rid and wouldn't so was booted instead.

That doesn't seem right to me, even if he got rid of West I reckon Mallinder was on borrowed time

Just going by what some had said, board asked for some new ideas in the setup as they stagnated after Alex King left and West hadn't adapted to a smaller pack. All their coaches had been there pretty much since Mallinder joined, Phil Dowson is the only one who's been outside the setup in the last decade but Mallinder wouldn't budge. Get the impression King was forced out too because his thinking didn't match the collective

U20s tonight. Some thoughts.

Few standouts, 3 and 8 for Ireland were contenders for MOTM. Rightly went to the 8 for matching try and rip in the last 10 mins.
Scrum strong
For a Paul O’Connell coached team the maul defence and lineout were poor
Defence was excellent in structured phases. Very physical. Off the line fast and drove Scotland back often.
Defence not so good in broken field and 2nd half were the Scots worked out they could steal cheap yards round the fringes and via the maul.
Dalton good in the loose but very poor hands (in poor conditions). Dropped 3 restarts just because he took his eye off the ball. He’s very fast around the park though. They had a clear tactic of him playing wing on opposition restarts and bombing down the outside to scrag the receiver.
Wings, 14 looks good in the first half, much less so I’m the 2nd. 11 hardly saw any ball.
Scottish 9 was the worst player on the park.
Ulster tighthead looked like a good version of Ah You. Big hits, good carries, strong scrum and discipline seemed good. Unlucky not to be MOTM.
Ulster backrowers in the shade of the 8. Agnew with 2 good jackles late in 2nd half, otherwise didn’t see much of him.
If it was Dubleavy at 6, really didn’t see much of him at all.
Curtis at 12 reminds me of Olding without the feet. Looked ok.
Irish 15 with some excellent individual breaks, needed to think more for when he took contact and how the ball was to be recycled from there.
10 missed quite a few kicks. Seemed to try and leather the ball every time.

Murray kinsela seems to be a big fan of Curtis

O’Toole was excellent and should be delighted with the scrum and his efforts.
Dalton is very raw and need some an arm round him, talent is there.
Dunleavy was excellent I thought. Did the graft so O’Sullivan could be free as a carrier. Looks very good in the tackle as does Agnew, superb engine and tackling ability. Got two vital turnovers but they seemed to come when Scotland tired.
Stewart did well when on. First act was to take down a big Scottish forward or else they would have led. Really surprised and chuffed he nailed it.
Curtis does look useful. Perhaps another PW but I’m not sure what position he would play, seemed to bosh when he isn’t the biggest.
Keane did well defensively I thought as he was constantly faced with two on ones. Kernohan had a shocker second half. Get O’Toole promoted alongside Rory. His position isn’t going to necessarily get any easier with Rory and Hendo next to him. The backrow I’d potentially hold back and wait for Coetzee and Murphy. We really need these guys (and Hall who is injured) to kick on

Thanks Stand. Did you watch it on TV? I should clarify that being there in person I’m not going to see the unseen work. So Dunleavy could well of had a fantastic game, he just wasn’t that prominent in the loose.

Curtis was interesting. D’Arcy-esque in driving threw the tackle and earning cheap yards. He had a lot of half / nearly breaks but nothing clean.

Dalton was fine apart from the restarts, but they were bad mistakes. Hyper athletic and Ferris like with him galavanting our in the wings (albeit in a lock’s frame rather than a 6).

Kernohan was fine in the first half. Remember being happy with 1 thing he did but can’t remember what it was. Him skidding for the try in the 2nd half was chuff but it was the 10 who put the team under pressure with a dreadful kick.

O’Toole though was the real star for us though. How often do tightheads get close to MOTM performances? For the 2 penalties we won at the scrum the team rallied around him which suggests he was the catalyst. Big carrying game, big hits and great hands too to pick up a pass from the 9 around his ankles. He’s also massive. Well over 6’. He’ll probably disappear without a trace now but I was properly impressed.

Another one who looks massive was the replacement loosehead. Huge. Just massive, shame one of the first things he did was drop a pass.

On the lineout I’ve just seen the programme lists our replacement hooker as “An Other”. We lost the starting hooker about 10 mins in so that might explain things falling apart.

Don the envy you being there Red. You are 100% spot on about O’Toole. I’ve seen it a couple of times for the A’s but his scrum work last night was a lot better. Got in trouble once or twice but held it until O’Sullivan could control and pick.

You’re spot on about Dunleavy and I suppose Agnew. Neither carried much. Given that Hall is considered better than Agnew that bodes well. Similar to Lowry and Curtis as 10s. Curtis is an interesting one and a massive contrast to our current 12. I just feel a good kiwi coach with a record of bringing in youngsters would be excellent. Sin was on the money with Penney or someone like Scott Robertson (although the latter is a pipe dream)

Given what Bryn said the other night about us trying to make athletes into rugby players and that we should be developing rugby brains into our players of the future, Hall and Agnew are interesting.
From what I have seen Agnew looks a more natural 7 and whilst not as athletic, he definately has potential.

O'Toole was notable because of his composure. He has good hands commensurate with his Gaelic roots in Louth, and has a great attitude - no doubt fostered in Brisbane. Most importantly he can scrummage, but is he at the right province?

Another player with Australian connections, Finlay Bealham, never got a look in outside the Academy at Ulster yet after his move to Connacht has gone on to represent Ireland. Props' prospects at Ulster seem to retreat in proportion to the amount of coaching they receive. As well as Bealham, Paddy Macallister, Adam Macklin, Connor Carey, Kyle McCall, Ross Kane, Craig Trenier and Michael Lagan all had u20 caps but never really fulfilled their promise in Belfast. Part of the problem is that they don't develop because their "club" side is playing sub standard rugby in the lower levels of the UBL.

O'Toole has undoubtedly the raw material, but will it ever amount to anything if he stays at Ulster?

If Thursday night discussion comes through and delivers the answer is yes.
It is clear young players will be getting far more exposure at senior level than in the past.
The club situation is a problem but Malone looking good for promotion to 1B
and we should have 1 and possibly 2 teams in 1A next year.
Clarke was a problem with respect to some players development - he has gone.
Who the new Head Coach is and who he brings in will be key.

Ulster are largely blameless on at least two of those
Paddy McAllister did make the breakthrough, was offered a new contract and chose to leave. He is in truth no more
than a squad member at Gloucester
Macklin to put it bluntly did not have much between the ears.
He is an good example of player lacking the rugby brain and right attitude Cunningham talked about on Thursday.
What we could do with is a quality scrum coach - we benefited from Botha and Corrigan when they were here - but not since

On Thursday we got, for the first time, an exceptance we have been doing it wrong and are in a mess.
We also got some sensible actions outlined to bring us back on track.
For now they are just words but I feel we should at least see who our new Head Coach is and also see if some of those words are
turned into actions in the next 15 months or so

The Great Aukster wrote:O'Toole was notable because of his composure. He has good hands commensurate with his Gaelic roots in Louth, and has a great attitude - no doubt fostered in Brisbane. Most importantly he can scrummage, but is he at the right province?

Another player with Australian connections, Finlay Bealham, never got a look in outside the Academy at Ulster yet after his move to Connacht has gone on to represent Ireland. Props' prospects at Ulster seem to retreat in proportion to the amount of coaching they receive. As well as Bealham, Paddy Macallister, Adam Macklin, Connor Carey, Kyle McCall, Ross Kane, Craig Trenier and Michael Lagan all had u20 caps but never really fulfilled their promise in Belfast. Part of the problem is that they don't develop because their "club" side is playing sub standard rugby in the lower levels of the UBL.

O'Toole has undoubtedly the raw material, but will it ever amount to anything if he stays at Ulster?

O'Toole is towards the upper echelons of the UBL Aukster. Admittedly they need to be in 1A but they are in the mix at least. Was Bealham not let go by Clarke? McAllister and Macklin were walking injuries when here. Perhaps theres an argument they broke in too early or that we weren't patient enough in that regard. Kane, Trenier and Lagan aren't in O'Tooles league from what i can see. Anderson seems to be doing good things with the A's and we dont yet know who will be in charge of the seniors so asking will it amount to anything is really dependent on things we cant know. What i would say is he has shown more ability than Ah You, Kane and to a large degree Herbst and he has the benefit of a two time 6N winner coming in to sit behind in terms of development.

To go in parallel with what Geoff has mentioned we need that competitive streak thats prevalent in leinster. Again so much will come down to the new appointment but it did seem like the next coach will be given a free hand to beat the squad into shape

Well, well, well look who's back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f46h49Oi1Q&feature=youtu.be

What a waffling load of piffle.

Pete330v2 wrote:What a waffling load of piffle.

Yep only took him like 6 months to find answers for questions everyone was asking and even then they aren't very good answers.

So that's the famous or infamous Shane Logan. Never knew what he looked like.

Logan **** off

That was the message from Thursday

It really does show how inept and misguided the fool is if he thinks that video would help his case. Twit

Can't bring myself to watch it. I'll just get annoyed.

Some comments on Planet Rugby that Daverage (AKA Dave Kearney) might be headed to Ulster. Not hugely inspired by that news. Might suggest both Bowe and Trimble are off though.

Daverage would do but we need to be careful or we'll just become LeinsterII.

It's Logans smile throughout that is unsettling, it's like that of a sociopath

Redman heard the Kearney rumour and not an awful signing just not a world beater signing, even with Trimble we are short of back three options

While maybe Daverage is not all singing and dancing, but having a few Leinster players in the dressing room might help to create a winning culture.

I don’t have anything against Daverage per se. I’m more highlighting the fact that Ulster must feel we’ve a problem in the back 3 if they’re also saying they’re looking to push on youngsters at the expense of squad fillers.

Redman wrote:I don’t have anything against Daverage per se. I’m more highlighting the fact that Ulster must feel we’ve a problem in the back 3 if they’re also saying they’re looking to push on youngsters at the expense of squad fillers.

l

Ulster is lacking experience. Daverage will bring that. Look at Leinster bringing back Nacewa despite all the talent they have coming through.

In the back three we are no that overloaded with players
Bowe, Piatau away, Trimble on borrowed time

That only leaves us with Gilroy, Stockdale, Ludik, Lyttle and Nelson
Best and Owens on the books but to be honest not great.

As to pushing youngster through the irony, given our previous homegrowns that have made it, is that whilst we do have an exciting Academy what it doesn't contain is back three players.
Bottom line Kearney would be a decent signing

I don't think its fair to downplay Leinsters cast offs. They can work well. We have had cast offs who have went on to international caps from elsewhere. I think it's ridiculous to turn our noses up at Dave Kearney personally.

Move Dave to 12 or 13 please if he goes up.

SecretFly wrote:Move Dave to 12 or 13 please if he goes up.  

I think he would make an above average centre

Article by the 42 on the academy

http://www.the42.ie/ulster-academy-kieran-campbell-interview-3896050-Mar2018/

marty2086 wrote:Article by the 42 on the academy

http://www.the42.ie/ulster-academy-kieran-campbell-interview-3896050-Mar2018/

After listening to Logan you tube waffle and excuses this was a breath of fresh air. At least there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

It is rodders and the relationship between Campbell, Peel and Dundon seems to be a good one. Hopefully whatever happens going forward that those lines of communication remaining between the academy and senior squad