Miguel Cotto is overrated

First topic message reminder :

Not because he's beaten nothing but faded champs and inexperienced fringe contenders barely out of the Olympics, and not because most of his wins were at a weight class that he was too big for, but because people used to consider him to be this much of a threat to Floyd Mayweather even after knowing these facts.

All that we've been getting since the Hatton fight, is references to Cotto this and how Floyd is ducking him or avoiding him, etc, etc.. Cotto fans are building him into another Margarito based on Floyd's name; it is an endless cycle. The acclaim basically comes from two wins through out his 38 fight and 10 year career.

It is so undeniably hilarious that Floyd almost gets no credit for beating Zab, but Cotto does, even with the year lay-off and previous 2 losses. It bewilders the mind.

NEVER been the man at 140
NEVER been the man at 147
NEVER been the man at 154

Ducked Hatton and Floyd Mayweather at 140, nearly got beat at the weight by Paulie Malignaggi. Quit against Margarito and Pacquiao. Nearly quit against Clottey and Mosley. Went into survival mode against Mosley, Mosley threw the fight away more than Cotto won it. No doubt in my mind a prime Mosley smashes him to pieces. Ricky Hatton is a better fighter than him and would knock him out at 140 but Bob Arum helped him duck the challengers there and he knew Floyd Mayweather would expose Cotto so ducked Floyd Mayweather at 140 and 147.

Therefore, Cotto's status among some of his fans is unjustified. Moving up from 140 and 147 before winning a lineal title is already a bad sign and he still hasn't won one, yet Mayweather did in his 18th fight.

Young_Towzer wrote:You accuse others of being biased just because they don't share the same view as yourself, now you can continue to presume that Cotto was the man based on a win over Gomez which you are doing, the Mosley fight of course happened before Mayweathers retirement. Now being considered the man isn't something that gets inherited you have to earn it and had he beaten Margarito then yes he would have been the man but before the fight he simply wasn't.
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Mosley's a much bigger win than Baldomir or Hatton, Mosley would of destroyed both, the Shane of 4 years ago. I don't accuse anyone at all apart from this guy of being bias, how can anyone justify the way he is 195% in favour of Mayweather and nobody else? they can't. Goodbye, end of.

Baldomir was the lineal CHAMP at 147 not Mosley in 2006 and Mayweather beat Mosley when he was the main man at 147, keep on trying to argue with facts though. The fact that a lot of posters have trouble debating with you on 606v2 would suggest that your the problem not me.

Young_Towzer wrote:You guys did a great job, yesterday, of jousting and sparring without any nasty stuff. Let's not spoil it, eh ?
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Fine by me windy, anyone's free to comment on my article, if someone leaves a comment with regards to something i've said. I will respond to it, imperial gets a bit hot headed, nothing a good time out wouldn't cure, i'm sure he will cool down a bit, take a leaf out of my ice cool book. As i will say once again, i will make things easy for the mods and ignore bias.

Good man.

HumanWindmill wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

It's MY ARTICLE so I just you remove yourself from it...Looks like Imperial is schooling you again so no need to add anything.

You guys did a great job, yesterday, of jousting and sparring without any nasty stuff. Let's not spoil it, eh ?

He is now accusing Imperial of being a bit hot headed, priceless!

I wont get into a argument with mr delusional on here so don't worry windy.

Young_Towzer wrote:You guys did a great job, yesterday, of jousting and sparring without any nasty stuff. Let's not spoil it, eh ?
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Fine by me windy, anyone's free to comment on my article, if someone leaves a comment with regards to something i've said. I will respond to it, imperial gets a bit hot headed, nothing a good time out wouldn't cure, i'm sure he will cool down a bit, take a leaf out of my ice cool book. As i will say once again, i will make things easy for the mods and ignore bias.

Me hot headed? Unlike you dear boy I don't feel the need to make things up to try and prove a point which is in fact not a fact as you like to put it, nor do I accuse everyone who disagrees with my opinion of being biased, doing such things just highlights the fact you haven't got a clue and can't formulate a coherent argument otherwise. I would also add that considering Cotto the champion above Mayweather at the time is a clear case of bias so should I therefore ignore your opinion or is it only a one way thing where every debate starts and ends with your insular opinion?

The genius of PBF wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

It's MY ARTICLE so I just you remove yourself from it...Looks like Imperial is schooling you again so no need to add anything.

You guys did a great job, yesterday, of jousting and sparring without any nasty stuff. Let's not spoil it, eh ?

He is now accusing Imperial of being a bit hot headed, priceless!

I wont get into a argument with mr delusional on here so don't worry windy.

Thanks, PBF.

You pair managed to knock lumps out of each other's arguments yesterday, while still staying the right side of civil. It was very entertaining.

Baldomir was the lineal CHAMP at 147 not Mosley in 2006 and Mayweather beat Mosley when he was the main man at 147, keep on trying to argue with facts though. The fact that a lot of posters have trouble debating with you on 606v2 would suggest that your the problem not me.
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A win over Sugar Shane Mosley from 2007 is much, much more impressive than stinking the joint out in beating a roadsweeper in Baldomir. No, i aint a problem, do the posters/mods on here a favour and just stop trying to cause an argument, the board is about themselves discussing boxing, not you wanting to follow your idol who doesn't know you excist in arguing with everybody who doesn't share the same opinion as you . 2 minutes ago i was being 'schooled', now i'm 'the problem', haha what's that got to do with the sweet science of boxing?.

I wont get into a argument with mr delusional on here so don't worry windy.
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good, we wouldn't know what you were talking about if you started arguing with yourself behind a PC on a forum now would we 8)

goodnight......6:58 here in Manchester

Young_Towzer wrote:I wont get into a argument with mr delusional on here so don't worry windy.
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good, we wouldn't know what you were talking about if you started arguing with yourself behind a PC on a forum now would we 8)

goodnight......6:58 here in Manchester

Im off to the gym to do some training southpaw...have a good day

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

Young_Towzer wrote:You guys did a great job, yesterday, of jousting and sparring without any nasty stuff. Let's not spoil it, eh ?
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Fine by me windy, anyone's free to comment on my article, if someone leaves a comment with regards to something i've said. I will respond to it, imperial gets a bit hot headed, nothing a good time out wouldn't cure, i'm sure he will cool down a bit, take a leaf out of my ice cool book. As i will say once again, i will make things easy for the mods and ignore bias.

Me hot headed? Unlike you dear boy I don't feel the need to make things up to try and prove a point which is in fact not a fact as you like to put it, nor do I accuse everyone who disagrees with my opinion of being biased, doing such things just highlights the fact you haven't got a clue and can't formulate a coherent argument otherwise. I would also add that considering Cotto the champion above Mayweather at the time is a clear case of bias so should I therefore ignore your opinion or is it only a one way thing where every debate starts and ends with your insular opinion?

So true

Me hot headed? Unlike you dear boy I don't feel the need to make things up to try and prove a point which is in fact not a fact as you like to put it, nor do I accuse everyone who disagrees with my opinion of being biased, doing such things just highlights the fact you haven't got a clue and can't formulate a coherent argument otherwise. I would also add that considering Cotto the champion above Mayweather at the time is a clear case of bias so should I therefore ignore your opinion or is it only a one way thing where every debate starts and ends with your insular opinion?
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Bias?

Mayweather - Judah - struggles early and eats more jabs than flu sufferers
Baldomir - stinks the joint out against a roadsweeper who couldn't lace Cotto's boots


Miguel

Judah - absolutely destroys the big mouth
Mosley - outboxes Shane

i think them 2 wins are much, much more impressive of Cotto, and i aint bias, i don't need to explain that. Yes, you hot headed as well, calling me dear boy haha? what's all tha about?....i haven't accused anyone of being bias, i think it's plain to see he's bias towards Mayweather, most would agree with that. End of.

So true laughing
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much appreciated

Im off to the gym to do some training southpaw...have a good day
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Me too later Shantel, i will do, you too

You are without doubt the most hot headed person on here, your use of 'facts', 'lols' and 'end ofs' are just a sign that you've been gotten the better of

You may well consider the Mosley win an indication of Cotto being the man but you would be in the minority. Judah beat Cory Spinks for the lineal title which went through Baldomir and found itself in the hands of Mayweather, now that is beyond doubt a 100% bonafide fact. If we take into account single wins then surely Quintana's win over Williams would push him above Cotto because PWill was at the time rated higher than Mosley but who am I to argue against so called 'facts'.

You are without doubt the most hot headed person on here, your use of 'facts', 'lols' and 'end ofs' are just a sign that you've been gotten the better of
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Nah, they are an indication that im Loling, i am a really calm lad to be honest with you imperial haha. Things die down again, imperial brings them back up, i think your rattled haha, i really do. End of. PS, Didn't Cotto absolutely destroy Quintana, ? mmmmm. I think above all as well that joining forces with Shantel it proves your a bit over aggressive, i mean why else would you comment and target some of the things i respond to? mmmm

It takes a degree of intelligence to rattle me but think what you wish dear boy, in your own words you've been well and truly schooled

It takes a degree of intelligence to rattle me but think what you wish dear boy, in your own words you've been well and truly schooled
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they weren't my words they were Shantels, and if he said it was snowing outside i'd look twice, ps boy? that proves your angry haha im a 21 year old man, end of. Hahahaha

Young_Towzer wrote:It takes a degree of intelligence to rattle me but think what you wish dear boy, in your own words you've been well and truly schooled
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they weren't my words they were Shantels, and if he said it was snowing outside i'd look twice, ps boy? that proves your angry haha im a 21 year old man, end of. Hahahaha

End of. End of. End of. End of. End of. Repeat dozens of times over.

If only it was the end. This back and forth debate got boring about a page and a half ago.

End of. End of. End of. End of. End of. Repeat dozens of times over.

If only it was the end. This back and forth debate got boring about a page and a half ago.
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as put above if you read, i quite clearly put lets get back to talking boxing the forum is about the people discussing boxing, a merged tag team of mayweather's obessive fan and imperial ghosty kept bringing it up, and trying to rile me, which failed hugely. End of.

Fair enough, Towzer, though on the subject of the article I think a near enough unanimous verdict has been reached - Cotto is a very good fighter, but falls a fair way short of being a great one. Whether or not he was ever 'the man' at 147 lb doesn't change that.

Fair enough, Towzer, though on the subject of the article I think a near enough unanimous verdict has been reached - Cotto is a very good fighter, but falls a fair way short of being a great one. Whether or not he was ever 'the man' at 147 lb doesn't change that.
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the point is though chris, he isn't overrated imo, that was the title of the article. His achievements, the guys he's beat are top notch, Miguel's a quality fighter and imo will make the Hof, and rightly so.

I should remember that putting end of fully justifies a lie, also two people disagreeing with you isn't a tag team, it's merely a difference of opinion, if you weren't riled you'd have dropped the immaturity a long time ago.

Young_Towzer wrote:the point is though chris, he isn't overrated imo, that was the title of the article. His achievements, the guys he's beat are top notch, Miguel's a quality fighter and imo will make the Hof, and rightly so.

And in fairness, I mentioned in my first post on this article that the truth lies somewhere in between what you and PBF were saying. Cotto isn't just an overrated quitter and hype job as PBF has stated. But nor is he on par with someone like Alexis Arguello, which you argued the other day. Overrated or underrated is a subjective thing. I think PBF underrates him, while you overrate him to the same extent. But if I had to go with one over the other, I'd say that more people overrate him than they do underrate him.

I agree fully that he's a quality fighter, just not a great one by any stretch of the imagination. And yep, I'm sure that he'll be in the Hall of Fame one day - but so are Barry McGuigan and Ingemar Johansson. Granted, Cotto is a cut above the pair of them, but it still goes to show that being in the Hall of Fame isn't always a true reflection of greatness.

Please people can we calm down and stop the bickering.

Please respect each others opinion and debate in a respectful manner.

Thanks.

Right from the start, Cotto has fought and defeated former world title contenders like Rocky Martinez, John Brown, Demetrio Ceballos, Victoriano Sosa, Lovemore N'dou, Cesar Bazan & Justin Juuko.

Cotto had a total of 7 championship fights at 140lbs, and after claiming the 140lb world championship, Cotto defended the crown a total of 6 times against the likes of DeMarcus Corley, Ricardo Torres & Paul Malignaggi. It's worth nothing that both Torres and Malignaggi were undefeated at the time yet they both came back to claim world championships.

In 2006, Cotto then took on the highly skilled Carlos Quintana at 147lbs in a fight where many thought Cotto would lose. Cotto prevailed by retiring Quintanna in the 5th round. Once again, Quintanna was an undefeated fighter who came back to claim a world championship against the highly rated Paul Williams.

Cotto then had a further 8 championship fights at 147lbs where he successfully defended his title until his highly controversial fight with Margarito. In this time, Cotto beat the likes of former undisputed welterweight champ Zab Judah & all-time great Shane Mosley. It's worth noting that Mosley came back from the loss to dominate Margarito and become the man at welter.

On a recent note, Cotto claimed the WBO 147lb championship and defended it against Joshua Clottey. Let's NOT forget that Clottey was the IBF champion and was FORCED to vacate - so Cotto would have become the unified champion at welter.

In summary, Cotto has had a total of 18 world championship fights and he 16-1 - with 1 suspect 'loss' to Margarito. Cotto has beat something like 10 former world champions and he's a 3-weight world champion.

Cotto is a great of this era and history will re-evaluate him.

Cotto is a great of this era and history will re-evaluate him.
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i already knew that, and will second that