Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

First topic message reminder :

Carberry is 22, McPhillips is 21. Is this talk about sticking with McPhillips and hoping he turns out to be a gem maybe a tad naive? Carberry at a year older is being talked about as though he was the second coming and all this despite Sexton and Byrne and a whole backline of stellar players potentially blocking him. By contrast, it's almost as if we only know the name of McPhillips because we had no choice. A year ago the thinking was Jackson and Nelson. We then were saying Cooney can play 10 a bit. Then we signed Lealifano. Surely if McPhillips was the hot prospect, the coaches would have featured him more before Lealifano left.
In fact during Leanlifano's time here wasn't Nelson the preferred bench 10, and indeed started 3 games at 10 before Christmas, but then got injured?

Not meaning to be super negative, I hope I'm wrong. Cooney is a perfect example of a player suddenly shining from nowhere. I guess Ulster coaches know better than me if he's a real prospect worth thrusting into the limelight or not.

geoff999rugby wrote:There is a legal difference between a Provincial contract and a Central Contract. End

What a complete pointless statement to make.

There's a legal difference between the contracts of the CEO and the cleaner, but they are still both controlled by the IRFU.

Ahhh phills back for the new season, still more concerned about how unfair the Irish are to poor Wales, rather than looking at how Cardiff can kick on after there good season last year.

What a sad little ...... Man?

carpet baboon wrote:Ahhh phills back for the new season, still more concerned about how unfair the Irish are to poor Wales,  rather than looking at how Cardiff can kick on after there good season last year.

What a sad little ...... Man?

Oh, let's play the man and not the ball.

Thanks for projecting that you can only single task in your thinking, too. Top marks to you.

Haha Phill. You spend so much time looking to score points. Go outside enjoy the sunshine.

carpet baboon wrote:Haha Phill. You spend so much time looking to score points. Go outside enjoy the sunshine.

Again, with the single line of thought. What is it with you and this approach? For all you know, I could be posting this from my garden, from the beach, from the seafront, from wherever.

You really aren't very good at this kind of thing.

And it's always good fun to remind Martyn of those times when he claimed the IRFU didn't own every contract in Ireland, seeing that he's such the expert on Irish rugby.

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Haha Phill. You spend so much time looking to score points. Go outside enjoy the sunshine.

Again, with the single line of thought. What is it with you and this approach? For all you know, I could be posting this from my garden, from the beach, from the seafront, from wherever.

You really aren't very good at this kind of thing.

And it's always good fun to remind Martyn of those times when he claimed the IRFU didn't own every contract in Ireland, seeing that he's such the expert on Irish rugby.

Phill. Everyone knows exactly what your like, you have become quite tedious, with your grandstanding "look at me, look how clever I am, I'm special, recognise I'm correct, while I talk down to everyone to prove how superior I am"
It was funny laughing at you for a few years, now, well it's just a little sad.
Enjoy the beach, garden, basement

carpet baboon wrote:
Phill. Everyone knows exactly what your like, you have become quite tedious, with your grandstanding "look at me, look how clever I am, I'm special, recognise I'm correct, while I talk down to everyone to prove how superior I am"
It was funny laughing at you for a few years, now, well it's just a little sad.
Enjoy the beach, garden, basement

Thanks for the thoughts, especially on the sense of humour we all enjoy when laughing at others. Some enjoy laughing at the desperation of others who project their own problems when trying to mock others for being, erm, right. Some laugh at the hypocrisy of others.

I'm sure that we can all agree on laughing at the IRFU for wasting a fortune on Belfast's finest in return for next to nothing this century.

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:
Phill. Everyone knows exactly what your like, you have become quite tedious, with your grandstanding "look at me, look how clever I am, I'm special, recognise I'm correct, while I talk down to everyone to prove how superior I am"
It was funny laughing at you for a few years, now, well it's just a little sad.
Enjoy the beach, garden, basement

Thanks for the thoughts, especially on the sense of humour we all enjoy when laughing at others. Some enjoy laughing at the desperation of others who project their own problems when trying to mock others for being, erm, right. Some laugh at the hypocrisy of others.

I'm sure that we can all agree on laughing at the IRFU for wasting a fortune on Belfast's finest in return for next to nothing this century.

In fairness, Belfast's finest did help the Ireland team to a Grand Slam this year, our second Six Nations Championship in four years.

Of course, Wales were right there in second (yay!), bobbing along gamely behind us, having scrabbled upwards from fourth the year before. And of course, with your sharp assessment of the IRFU as a monolithic whole, you will know that Belfast's finest will take considerable pleasure seeing their national team-mates - nay, fellow IRFU work colleagues! - win the Pro14 and the European Cup!

The mighty Cardiff did edge the Champions Cup, or whatever it's called, against Gloucester. As a fellow Celt I'm delighted - I thought the only silverware in Wales this year would be at the Silver Mountain Experience outside Aberystwyth (which I would recommend, although the ghost tour is a bit half-hearted)!

Wales are third in the world rankings now, which you must be very proud of. Of course Ireland helped, going to Australia and beating them in a series in their own back yard. Not that Oz are the force they once were – although admittedly Wales haven't beaten them home or away since 2008. But the Irish stripping the Ozzies of ranking points meant that Wales are up to third. Much like the last Lions series, smart, talented Ireland players have delivered success for the Welsh on a plate. Go Wales! Enjoy!

Don commented a few days back on the civilised and informative discussion going on here.
I certainly, and I suspect others, appreciated that as well.
It would be nice to return to that.

And here I am ruining it myself!

If we're going to be trolled about "the IRFU wasting a fortune on Belfast's finest in return for next to nothing", I'm just going to give as good as we get.

Actually - it's the "we can all agree on laughing at" that oversteps the mark for me.

It's hard to argue, objectively, that the IRFU has seen a decent return on it's investment in Ulster.

But if your interest actually lies in the lols around the difficulties Ulster (and thereby the IRFU, as Phil is so quick to point out) have had, you'd better support a team that has achieved something.

Another couple of signings and I would be very happy going into the season. If Burns and Addison are half as good as told by some Sale/Glaws fans then its a brilliant start. We will see who comes in but the key issue was depth imo and that seems to be being addressed. Positive stuff at least

Financially speaking Don. THe IRFU have seen a better return in Ulster than any other province. Obviously we are a miles behind in other areas

With Super Rugbys regular season finishing this weekend would that be what Ulster are waiting for to announce one or two signings. Aren't there one or two IQ LHs playing there?

I honestly am pretty excited.

We won't win anything, but I'm hoping this season will see me proud of - and really engaged with - Ulster again. I want to see our Academy players coming through, I want to see good, committed coaches driving our players on, and it will just be a massive relief to see our province play without the storm-clouds of an ongoing r*** trial hanging over them.

Things seemed to be starting to click at the end of last season - I'm just desperate for that upward curve to continue.

By the end of this calendar year, we will effectively have had four head coaches. I just want a period of stability to let us grow and see what we're capable of. My one real concern is the loss of BBC NI coverage.

Oliver Jager is an Irish qualified TH at crusaders, however I feel he may be a bit over hyped and could be another James Hart, ie rave reviews when abroad but actually nothing special.

Who is better, Will Addison or Michael Haley? Who got the better deal?

I know last season was a tough season because of so much off field things and also the frustration of having to play in the Champion cup play-off. But let's remember it really wasn't as bad season as it seemed at the time.

1. They were only 6pts off the playoffs and 8pts off top spot
2. They were still in contention on the last weekend of the champion's cup to make the quarters. It wasn't like they had a weak group.

Just shows the high standards Ulster expect

Kingshu wrote:Oliver Jager is an Irish qualified TH at crusaders, however I feel he may be a bit over hyped and could be another James Hart, ie rave reviews when abroad but actually nothing special.

Who is better, Will Addison or Michael Haley? Who got the better deal?

Think we're stocked enough at TH for now, could have sworn there were a few more I could be wrong.

It'll depend where Addison ends up, if you look at Piutau I thought his best performances for Wasps were at 13 but he never played there for Ulster and he was hit and miss at times at 15 or on the wing

Brendan wrote:I know last season was a tough season because of so much off field things and also the frustration of having to play in the Champion cup play-off.  But let's remember it really wasn't as bad season as it seemed at the time.

1. They were only 6pts off the playoffs and 8pts off top spot
2. They were still in contention on the last weekend of the champion's cup to make the quarters. It wasn't like they had a weak group.

Just shows the high standards Ulster expect

It's been said here a few times, there was very little between Ulster and Munster when it comes to win and losses. The manner of those results and performances are a different thing all together though. If Munster hadn't made it out of their ERCC group would their season look as bright as it did. Ulster did better in the league than they did in 2011/12 when they got to the HC Final but some still idolise McLaughlin who finished 6th that year because of the final even though we lost to the likes of Treviso and Dragons and were soundly beaten by Ospreys, Munster and Leinster. There are fine margins sometimes and Ulster haven't helped themselves at times last season and been on the wrong side of those margins but there are shoots of something there from the run in last season and positivity around the place and some leadership within the setup and a guiding hand from Dublin too if needs be

Brendan wrote:I know last season was a tough season because of so much off field things and also the frustration of having to play in the Champion cup play-off.  But let's remember it really wasn't as bad season as it seemed at the time.

1. They were only 6pts off the playoffs and 8pts off top spot
2. They were still in contention on the last weekend of the champion's cup to make the quarters. It wasn't like they had a weak group.

Just shows the high standards Ulster expect

Ah it was a poor season and we got what we deserved. We only secured the play off spot with a last minute Timoney try in the penultimate game. We scraped past Kings in SA and Treviso at home. Our group was pretty weak in the grand scheme of things. La Rochelle and Quins didnt qualify for the Champions Cup this season after all albeit when we played the former in france they were arguably the form team in Europe. Im not trying to be negative but it was a really bad season. If its what we needed though to show the next generation(s) what is required then it will have been worth it though.

Kingshu wrote: Who is better, Will Addison or Michael Haley? Who got the better deal?

Put it this way I wouldn't swap

We don't need a TH
The obvious gaps are a LH, Lock, SH and back three player

it wasn't just the Trial, there was Kiss not being up to the job, injuries in the back row, the early part of the season morning Pienaar, Logan.

Cooney stepped into Pienaars Boots better than anyone expected, and once trial and injustice by Logan was done, and Kiss gone the season did pick up a bit.

But all said and done it actiulaly wasn't that bad a season.
the win % rose from 58.93% last season to 64.29% this season

https://thefrontrowunion.com/2018/06/ulster-rugby-who-did-what-2017-18/

In light of everything, it could have been a lot lot worse, there are small margins which I hope we can fix this year, and gain experience and have a real go at it next season.

My apologies for dragging it down. I should know better. Anyways he's on my block out at now so he can scream into the void.

I have seen Angus Curtis keeps been described as a centre, i know he played u20s there but came over as a 10. Where do Ulster see him playing?

Brendan wrote:I know last season was a tough season because of so much off field things and also the frustration of having to play in the Champion cup play-off.  But let's remember it really wasn't as bad season as it seemed at the time.

1. They were only 6pts off the playoffs and 8pts off top spot
2. They were still in contention on the last weekend of the champion's cup to make the quarters. It wasn't like they had a weak group.

Just shows the high standards Ulster expect

I agree, its funny but if you look back expectation were low coming into the season but some people like to rewrite history.

We probably exceeded expectations, narrowly missing out on a play-off place and managed to retain champions cup rugby, whilst blooding a lot of younger players in the process.

There were a few dire performances, particularly over the holiday period and into the new year but overall it was our best season since Anscombe and Humphreys were at the helm. Only when you contrast with the success Leinster and the national side have had does it not look so impressive.

We're certainly in a better place than Connacht and not too far off Munster all things considered.

carpet baboon wrote:My apologies for dragging it down. I should know better. Anyways he's on my block out at now so he can scream into the void.

I have seen Angus Curtis keeps been described as a centre, i know he played u20s there but came over as a 10. Where do Ulster see him playing?

Funny you mention him, just read this interview with him

https://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/hotshots/hotshot-ulster-ireland-u20-centre-angus-curtis-92940

Seems Ulster see him as a centre

Haha Marty I just found that after posting my question.

Don Alfonso wrote:
In fairness, Belfast's finest did help the Ireland team to a Grand Slam this year, our second Six Nations Championship in four years.

Of course, Wales were right there in second (yay!), bobbing along gamely behind us, having scrabbled upwards from fourth the year before. And of course, with your sharp assessment of the IRFU as a monolithic whole, you will know that Belfast's finest will take considerable pleasure seeing their national team-mates - nay, fellow IRFU work colleagues! - win the Pro14 and the European Cup!

The mighty Cardiff did edge the Champions Cup, or whatever it's called, against Gloucester. As a fellow Celt I'm delighted - I thought the only silverware in Wales this year would be at the Silver Mountain Experience outside Aberystwyth (which I would recommend, although the ghost tour is a bit half-hearted)!

Wales are third in the world rankings now, which you must be very proud of. Of course Ireland helped, going to Australia and beating them in a series in their own back yard. Not that Oz are the force they once were – although admittedly Wales haven't beaten them home or away since 2008. But the Irish stripping the Ozzies of ranking points meant that Wales are up to third. Much like the last Lions series, smart, talented Ireland players have delivered success for the Welsh on a plate. Go Wales! Enjoy!

Wow, that's what - Ireland's second proper Grand Slam? We'd done that by 1909.

As for the domestic success, it's a testimony to the need to spend large sums of money. Although, as Ulster prove, there's a little more to it than just the money...

PhilBB wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:
In fairness, Belfast's finest did help the Ireland team to a Grand Slam this year, our second Six Nations Championship in four years.

Of course, Wales were right there in second (yay!), bobbing along gamely behind us, having scrabbled upwards from fourth the year before. And of course, with your sharp assessment of the IRFU as a monolithic whole, you will know that Belfast's finest will take considerable pleasure seeing their national team-mates - nay, fellow IRFU work colleagues! - win the Pro14 and the European Cup!

The mighty Cardiff did edge the Champions Cup, or whatever it's called, against Gloucester. As a fellow Celt I'm delighted - I thought the only silverware in Wales this year would be at the Silver Mountain Experience outside Aberystwyth (which I would recommend, although the ghost tour is a bit half-hearted)!

Wales are third in the world rankings now, which you must be very proud of. Of course Ireland helped, going to Australia and beating them in a series in their own back yard. Not that Oz are the force they once were – although admittedly Wales haven't beaten them home or away since 2008. But the Irish stripping the Ozzies of ranking points meant that Wales are up to third. Much like the last Lions series, smart, talented Ireland players have delivered success for the Welsh on a plate. Go Wales! Enjoy!

Wow, that's what - Ireland's second proper Grand Slam? We'd done that by 1909.

As for the domestic success, it's a testimony to the need to spend large sums of money. Although, as Ulster prove, there's a little more to it than just the money...

Relax, PhilBB. Don't take it to heart. Instead, bask in the rosy glow of being third in the world before you have to play someone decent and slip down the rankings. This is your time.

PhilBB wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:
In fairness, Belfast's finest did help the Ireland team to a Grand Slam this year, our second Six Nations Championship in four years.

Of course, Wales were right there in second (yay!), bobbing along gamely behind us, having scrabbled upwards from fourth the year before. And of course, with your sharp assessment of the IRFU as a monolithic whole, you will know that Belfast's finest will take considerable pleasure seeing their national team-mates - nay, fellow IRFU work colleagues! - win the Pro14 and the European Cup!

The mighty Cardiff did edge the Champions Cup, or whatever it's called, against Gloucester. As a fellow Celt I'm delighted - I thought the only silverware in Wales this year would be at the Silver Mountain Experience outside Aberystwyth (which I would recommend, although the ghost tour is a bit half-hearted)!

Wales are third in the world rankings now, which you must be very proud of. Of course Ireland helped, going to Australia and beating them in a series in their own back yard. Not that Oz are the force they once were – although admittedly Wales haven't beaten them home or away since 2008. But the Irish stripping the Ozzies of ranking points meant that Wales are up to third. Much like the last Lions series, smart, talented Ireland players have delivered success for the Welsh on a plate. Go Wales! Enjoy!

Wow, that's what - Ireland's second proper Grand Slam? We'd done that by 1909.

As for the domestic success, it's a testimony to the need to spend large sums of money. Although, as Ulster prove, there's a little more to it than just the money...

For someone who wants to laugh at others for not getting things correct, I though you would have checked it. 3rd Grand Slam, Wales had done it by 1911.

"As to domestic success, it's a testimony to the need to spend large sums of money" Really the last 3 winners before Leinster were, Scarlets, Connacht and Glasgow, didn't release they all spent big for domestic success.

The domestic success I referred to was the Champions Cup.

I also wrote "second PROPER Grand Slam" for a reason. That seems to have flown over your head.

PhilBB wrote:The domestic success I referred to was the Champions Cup.

I also wrote "second PROPER Grand Slam" for a reason. That seems to have flown over your head.

Why was one not proper?
Which one 1948, 2009 or 2018

Domestic success being Champions cup is a strange usage of the term domestic "existing or occurring inside a particular country; not foreign or international"
In truth the Pro 14 shouldn't count as domestic, but its the closest we have, but the Champions cup is certainly not domestic.
Since there isn't an inter provincial championship Ulster do not play in a domestic competition, closest to it is the Pro 14 though.

Think when you said domestic you meant European success, but again for someone who laughs at others errors, you should really be getting these right.

That's a bit pedantic, Kingshu. With "domestic success" there, PhilBB is just trying to set his parameters.

He knows he can safely attribute winning the big European Cup to money, because he'll never have to defend a Welsh European Cup winner. Scarlets looked more likely to compete last season than any region in recent years (to the Welsh, at least). But now their best player, Irishman Beirne, has left, that's them done. Because they don't "have large sums of money".

Kingshu wrote:

Why was one not proper?
Which one 1948, 2009 or 2018

Domestic success being Champions cup is a strange usage of the term domestic  "existing or occurring inside a particular country; not foreign or international"
In truth the Pro 14 shouldn't count as domestic, but its the closest we have, but the Champions cup is certainly not domestic.
Since there isn't an inter provincial championship Ulster do not play in a domestic competition, closest to it is the Pro 14 though.

Think when you said domestic you meant European success, but again for someone who laughs at others errors, you should really be getting these right.

Right, so domestic is cross border and it isn't cross border.

1948.

Don Alfonso wrote:That's a bit pedantic, Kingshu. With "domestic success" there, PhilBB is just trying to set his parameters.

He knows he can safely attribute winning the big European Cup to money, because he'll never have to defend a Welsh European Cup winner. Scarlets looked more likely to compete last season than any region in recent years (to the Welsh, at least). But now their best player, Irishman Beirne, has left, that's them done. Because they don't "have large sums of money".

That is spot on.

PhilBB wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:That's a bit pedantic, Kingshu. With "domestic success" there, PhilBB is just trying to set his parameters.

He knows he can safely attribute winning the big European Cup to money, because he'll never have to defend a Welsh European Cup winner. Scarlets looked more likely to compete last season than any region in recent years (to the Welsh, at least). But now their best player, Irishman Beirne, has left, that's them done. Because they don't "have large sums of money".

That is spot on.

Cheers, I know.

PhilBB wrote:

Kingshu wrote:

Why was one not proper?
Which one 1948, 2009 or 2018

Domestic success being Champions cup is a strange usage of the term domestic  "existing or occurring inside a particular country; not foreign or international"
In truth the Pro 14 shouldn't count as domestic, but its the closest we have, but the Champions cup is certainly not domestic.
Since there isn't an inter provincial championship Ulster do not play in a domestic competition, closest to it is the Pro 14 though.

Think when you said domestic you meant European success, but again for someone who laughs at others errors, you should really be getting these right.

Right, so domestic is cross border and it isn't cross border.

1948.

What was wrong with 1948?

Well... this is pretty cringy...

clivemcl wrote:Well... this is pretty cringy...

Yeah, I'm not watching that.

clivemcl wrote:Well... this is pretty cringy...

I wonder if they'll be doing the same to appoint a new CEO

Henry Speight?

https://outline.com/kSkj5Z

Speight is the only name i could see that was out of contract when i tried to research it a bit last week, so it's interesting to see mention of this in an article. He's not a utility back though is he?

It's effectively an injury cover role? Special dispensation from IRFU because of Marshall and Ludik?

The utility back may be separate to this signing then.

Funny... not sure how I came up with Speights name now. I thought it must have been that I seen he was out of contract, but that musn't be the case if the chat is Brumbies only letting him go on the off-season to return.

I saw Brian O'Driscoll having a great time at the Co Armagh 12th demonstration in Loughgall, lots of selfies being taken with him and one pic of him giving a lambeg a blatter. Filming a documentary apparently.

The last person you’d want doing a documentary on Ulster culture.

It's apparently about how rugby brings communities together here, think someones spun his a tale

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/17481.php#.W0jE9dVKiUl

Actually, what's worrying is I think that's the whole 2018/2019 squad in that photo...

In other news -

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/irfu-announce-1-2-million-profit-for-2017-18-season-1.3564006

Woo-hoo!! Someone let PhilBB know that, despite being a car crash last season, we're absolutely minted this season!

Also, Ian McIlrath is the new president of the IRFU.

Truly, a Grand Age of Ulster is being born.

Don Alfonso wrote:Also, Ian McIlrath is the new president of the IRFU.

Truly, a Grand Age of Ulster is being born.

What does he know about rugby... he told me once that I had the skills to play for Ireland!

The Great Aukster wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Also, Ian McIlrath is the new president of the IRFU.

Truly, a Grand Age of Ulster is being born.

What does he know about rugby... he told me once that I had the skills to play for Ireland!

Is "Snap!" big on the international scene?

Just having a look at the website.

The Senior team includes, amongst the usual suspects -

David Busby (4 caps, wing/fullback, 24)
Matthew Dalton (7 caps, lock, 19)
Aaron Hall (1 cap, backrow, 20 last month)
Greg Jones (4 caps, number 8, 22)
Adam McBurney (3 caps, hooker, 22 in Sept)
Caleb Montgomery (0 caps, back row, 23 last month)
Tommy O'Hagan (0 caps, lh prop, 25 in Oct)
Jack Owens (1 cap, wing/fullback, 23 in Oct)
Johnny Stewart (4 caps, scrumhalf, 20)