Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

First topic message reminder :

Carberry is 22, McPhillips is 21. Is this talk about sticking with McPhillips and hoping he turns out to be a gem maybe a tad naive? Carberry at a year older is being talked about as though he was the second coming and all this despite Sexton and Byrne and a whole backline of stellar players potentially blocking him. By contrast, it's almost as if we only know the name of McPhillips because we had no choice. A year ago the thinking was Jackson and Nelson. We then were saying Cooney can play 10 a bit. Then we signed Lealifano. Surely if McPhillips was the hot prospect, the coaches would have featured him more before Lealifano left.
In fact during Leanlifano's time here wasn't Nelson the preferred bench 10, and indeed started 3 games at 10 before Christmas, but then got injured?

Not meaning to be super negative, I hope I'm wrong. Cooney is a perfect example of a player suddenly shining from nowhere. I guess Ulster coaches know better than me if he's a real prospect worth thrusting into the limelight or not.

Ulster v SCARLETS: C Blommetjies, T Prydie, Jo Davies, K Fonotia, S Evans, R Patchell, S Hidalgo-Clyne; R Evans, K Owens (c), W Kruger, D Bulbring, S Cummins, B Thomson, Ja Davies, J Macleod.

Subs: R Elias, P Price, S Gardiner, E Kennedy, D Davis, G Davies, D Jones, I Nicholas.

Despite their injuries that's a strong team, particularly that backline.

And Herbst. We've got real depth there and next to nothing at loosehead. A complete reversal of where we were post Afoa.

It's not a bad team on paper, but just feels we're missing a lot of people. Also have to worry about us clicking with so many new faces. Should be good though.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/truth-ulster-rugbys-dwindling-finances

This appears to back up exactly what Geoff was saying, and the opposite to PhilBB? How could that be?

I have only one question? What was the TMO on when he said there was no force in the shoulder tackle

neilthom7 wrote:I have only one question? What was the TMO on when he said there was no force in the shoulder tackle

I think he realized it was red territory for Mitrea unless he said there was no force.  Mitrea then then went yellow.  Bottled it a bit, although it would have been a fairly harsh red in my opinion.  Seen them given though.

Anyway, on the match thread I was saying that I thought Addison was pretty exceptional.  Billy Burns needs time, as it's difficult for a 10 with a new backline.  We got glimpses of what Speight can do, in particular one break on the outside.  Great to see Coetzee (almost for the first time).  We still have Jordi Murphy and Marty Moore to feature as well as the likes of Best and Stockdale.  

All in all it's been a very positive night with the result going our way.

Burns did some good stuff i thought, has a really quick pass but does look like he throws an intercept or 2 in there.
I agree Addison was really good, I am very glad to see that, Gilroy too is so slippery, thought Kernoghan made good ground when he came on.
Speight looks so dangerous when in open space, I think the crowd will love his running style.
Theres a lot of positives I agree and we battled well with a lot more fight in us than last year.

Is it just me or has cave found a yard of pace this season?

Thought Addison looked like a slower version of Payne. Classy and didn't look flustered.

Burns will need time because in truth we looked slow from 10. I assumed he is our first choice 10 ... but it was interesting to read the follow from McWhirter.

"Billy Burns was deemed surplus to requirements at Gloucester but is pretty high profile - his battle with Johnny McPhillips for the number 10 shirt will be an interesting one."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45263663

Maybe not as cut and dry as we think. Certainly I think he needs to gel more because I thought he was our poorest performer today.

The rest was .... mostly positive. Not sure the backrow worked that well together. Timoney though was fantastic. He's probably never going to be an international regular, maybe not even an international with the wealth of riches Ireland currently have there but he's looking like an excellent player for us.

Glad they didn't risk O'Toole, hope he didn't fail the HIA. Looked good in his 25 mins but any sort of head knock for a young player and they shouldn't continue. Kane did pretty well as a replacement. Real competition there.

McBurney kinda showed why he's both rated and hasn't played much. A talent that they haven't felt they could risk until now. Excellent in the loose, the issue is at the set piece. Hopefully good coaching and game time will sort that out.

Thought O'Sullivan looked lively when he came one considering no one had ever heard of him.

Keroghan had a few good cameos. He looked almost surprised at how easy he was breaking tackles (albeit in a tiring Scarlets defence).

Speight looks a good signing. Big, fast and physical. Ideal replacement for Trimble.

The attack in general looked indecisive at times for Ulster, thought Burns was the epitome of that. Looked like he was almost loading up at times before passing

Henderson really is a different animal these days, lineout steals, disrupting mauls, he looked absolutely done in when he came off too

The Ulster thread. It’s like the Ulster fry it will either give you a heart attack or great pleasure. The health warning should be “can lead to unreasonable fillings of happiness and confidence or that everyone including Darren Cave/Stu McCloskey etc should be on the Irish team”.

Anybody know if McFarland spoke to the cameras post match?

What's the story with Eric O'Sullivan? Been on the Ulster web site and can't find anything other than he's in our academy?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/45385950

McFarland post match.

McFarland talking about playing flat to the line, is it just me or were we too flat at times or was it just Scarlets line speed? Seemed to stifle the attack a lot

Scarlets were quick off the line and Ulster didn't use the inside ball to get through the dog leg defence. But we were playing very flat sometimes

It's always good to get off to a winning start especially against a side like the Scarlets and it's also very positive to see the early signs of how Dan wants to get Ulster playing. We've got some promise in the forwards for once especially in the back row and our backline options could, at times sizzle. It all for nothing if our halfbacks don't work and without Cooney we'll lose a huge amount of playmaking ability. Shanahan and Stewart are not good enough, I dread seeing either playing but I'm all for them proving me wrong.
On another not I see Munster landed Alby Mathewson on a short term contract to lessen their scrum half problems.

Looks like Jordi Murphy and Rob Herring will be back for Friday. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45399404

Or as he's called on t'other forum, Nordi Murphy

A phrase coined on Leinsterfans just before last Christmas

Actually think it was the Leinster players who came up with the nickname, heard a few of them using it in interviews after it was announced

The Ulster Rugby medical team have issued the following squad update, ahead of the Guinness PRO14 Round 2 visit of Edinburgh to Kingspan Stadium this Friday.

Kyle McCall had elbow surgery yesterday to repair a torn tendon sustained in training last week and he is expected to be sidelined for 12 weeks.

Tom O'Toole suffered a concussion in the win versus Scarlets and will follow the Return To Play protocols.

They join the following players on the current injury list:

Rory Best (hamstring)
David Busby (knee)
Jean Deysel (knee) Back in training and available soon
Louis Ludik (hamstring)
Luke Marshall (knee)
Marty Moore (calf)
Stewart Moore (knee)
Tommy O'Hagan (perforated ear drum)
Clive Ross (knee)
Jacob Stockdale (hamstring)

Anyone know who selects the kick off times for games in the new Celtic Cup? It's become a bit of a pet peeve of mine, since it happened with the B&I Cup games too I'm guessing the teams as for some reason Ulster seem to like 5pm on a Friday which seems idiotic to me

Questions for you Ulster supporters? Do you think you’ve emerged from the moral cesspool after scapegoating a few or does the general feeling run deeper in the club? Would a more root and branch enquiry have done you more good in the long term or are you happy with how you stand now make you comfortable with being a fan?

Cyril wrote:Questions for you Ulster supporters? Do you think you’ve emerged from the moral cesspool after scapegoating a few or does the general feeling run deeper in the club? Would a more root and branch enquiry have done you more good in the long term or are you happy with how you stand now make you comfortable with being a fan?

I’m not sure if moral cesspool is the correct phrase. I think moral quagmire would be better. Or perhaps cesspit?

Also does one “emerge” from a cesspool or would climb out of give a stronger indication of the struggle involved.

You might need to re-write the last sentence - it’s clunky, too long and difficulty to understand.

Good effort though for the start of the season.

Feel free to come back to us for more.

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:Questions for you Ulster supporters? Do you think you’ve emerged from the moral cesspool after scapegoating a few or does the general feeling run deeper in the club? Would a more root and branch enquiry have done you more good in the long term or are you happy with how you stand now make you comfortable with being a fan?

I’m not sure if moral cesspool is the correct phrase.   I think moral quagmire would be better.   Or perhaps cesspit?  

Also does one “emerge” from a cesspool or would climb out of give a stronger indication of the struggle involved.

You might need to re-write the last sentence - it’s clunky, too long and difficulty to understand.  

Good effort though for the start of the season.

Feel free to come back to us for more.

Cesspool is defined as "any place of moral filth or immorality", so "moral cesspool" is an oxymoron. Moral immorality is obviously something Cyril understands, but way beyond me.

Cyril wrote:Questions for you Ulster supporters? Do you think you’ve emerged from the moral cesspool after scapegoating a few or does the general feeling run deeper in the club? Would a more root and branch enquiry have done you more good in the long term or are you happy with how you stand now make you comfortable with being a fan?

I duno, I've just been watching a team with a lot of new faces play rugby. I've noted the team played pretty ok and am glad the new coach is in place.
There's been not much difference in terms of season tickets and attendance, and I hear other fans note the team played ok and are glad the new coach is in place.
The sports journalists also seem to think the team played ok and are glad the new coach is in place.
I think we all are hoping our team wins their next game too and that the new coach continues to look good and the new faces continue to impress.


As for emerging from some moral cesspool.... no idea buddy, just a rugby team playing rugby from what I can tell.

I just can't believe that childish moron actually warranted a direct reply. I know this is a reply of sorts but it's not aimed directly at the half-witted one that walks amongst us. As for the cesspit, come on in, the water's just fine.

So Cooneys signed a new contract until 2022, Nucifora for First Minister

marty2086 wrote:So Cooneys signed a new contract until 2022, Nucifora for First Minister

Is this Cooney fella any use?
I know about that other lad you mentioned and he'd do a better job at 1st minister than the current shower a ****

He's no Pienaar

I see Curtis is covering 10 again this week and mcphillips is starting for the A team.
Is this just a case of rotation or is Curtis now seen as a better option, even though he's now a 12 according to a couple of interviews?

carpet baboon wrote:I see Curtis is covering 10 again this week and mcphillips is starting for the A team.
Is this just a case of rotation or is Curtis now seen as a better option, even though  he's now a 12 according to a couple of  interviews?

Bench is a different story though. Curtis is probably there over McPhillips because he can play 10, centre and possibly elsewhere, its all about the versatility

Speaking of benches I see Carbery is sitting on the Munster bench again.

The Ulster Rugby medical team have issued the following squad update, ahead of the Guinness PRO14 Round 3 fixture against Southern Kings on Sunday.

Tom O'Toole, Jean Deysel, Clive Ross and Tommy O'Hagan are all now available for selection after recovering from injury.

Jordi Murphy sustained an ankle ligament injury against Edinburgh and he won't be fit for the upcoming fixture against the Kings.

Chris Henry incurred a calf strain in the Ulster A game against Leinster and he too won't be available this weekend.

Both Peter Browne and Jack Owens sustained concussive injuries in the A game and will follow return to play protocols.

Alex Thompson has a calf injury and is currently unavailable for selection.

They join the following players on the current injury list:
Rory Best (hamstring)
David Busby (knee)
Louis Ludik (hamstring)
Luke Marshall (Knee)
Kyle McCall (elbow)
Martin Moore (calf)
Stewart Moore (knee)
Jacob Stockdale (hamstring)

What are your guys views on the season so far. I know we are only two games in but against 2 of the teams you are fighting it out with to get that home Quarter final and Champ cup spot.

Do you view it as two wins so far
1. Ground out that you would of lost last year because the team gave up.
2. Looks a better team than last year but is just dealing with getting use to the new coach and will be playing better in a month or so.
3. Very lucky and more of the same as last year.

I think it's a bit of one and two. Interested to see how SA trip goes. Might tell us a bit more.

My optimism has taken too many beatings from Ulster over the last few seasons so I feel it's a little bit of 1. with a good dollop of 3.

It is however far too early to tell but there have been some very encouraging signs of what might be to come. I'm still kekking it at the thought of what'll happen when Cooney's with Ireland or gets an injury.

Like Pete says it's too early to tell. There is a lot of room for improvement from the last two games and it's hard to tell if that's a new gameplan bedding in or the same old problems

There is a lot of reason to be optimistic with young players putting their hands up and there is depth in places we didn't think we'd have it but then at 9 we're fooked as the drop off is substantial

Home form was good last year with only 2 losses, so expect at least the same this year its away form that will be telling if the team have improved or not.

After the big clear out and new additions it will be intresting to see. Always felt this year is pretty much a building year anyway so getting H cup rugby is the aim anything extra is a bonus.

Have to admit I am pleased so far, getting tight wins when we know there is a lot more to come from this squad as players develop and get customed to new coaches plans is nice. Think as season goes on and players get more used to McFarlands/coaches plans/formations and younger players get gametime they will improve and Ulster will get better and better as the season progresses, injuries permitting.
From that viewpoint I expected us to start slow and build from there, two wins at home then is welcome, trip then to SA to let squad and coaches bond comes at the perfect time. So good start and hopefully its onwards and upwards (still expect possibke slip ups losing to teams we are expected to beat, but also surprising a few we are not) and building to more consistancy as season goes on.

If Stockdale, Gilroy and Speight are all available for Tigers in the first round of the Champions Cup who do you start on the wings? I'd think you'd have to drop Speight at the minute. Could try him at 13 in South Africa and see how it goes.

I'd say wait and see how Tigers go over the next few weeks, they turned things around at the weekend with Geordan Murphy in charge. If they keep that up you got to go strong, if they revert back to how they were two weeks ago, it gives you room to mix it up and save some players for Racing.

I think the next two weeks will give an idea of how the squad will be managed, the Kings game could be a great opportunity to test McPhillips, Curtis and/or Stewart at half back. If Stewart goes to South Africa he has to get sufficient game time given he'll miss the A game and needs to be tested before November

Murphys injury provides an opportunity for Deysel maybe to come in especially to provide someone who'll target the ball at the breakdown a bit more and slow the Kings down when they are in possession.

marty2086 wrote:I'd say wait and see how Tigers go over the next few weeks, they turned things around at the weekend with Geordan Murphy in charge. If they keep that up you got to go strong, if they revert back to how they were two weeks ago, it gives you room to mix it up and save some players for Racing.

I think the next two weeks will give an idea of how the squad will be managed, the Kings game could be a great opportunity to test McPhillips, Curtis and/or Stewart at half back. If Stewart goes to South Africa he has to get sufficient game time given he'll miss the A game and needs to be tested before November

Murphys injury provides an opportunity for Deysel maybe to come in especially to provide someone who'll target the ball at the breakdown a bit more and slow the Kings down when they are in possession.

I wouldn't consider anything other than full strength against Tigers, I'd also be cautious of trying new players away to Kings. They nearly beat the Dragons away from home and also picked up a losing bonus point in their first game. They are looking a lot better than last season.

On the backrow front with Murphy out.....Coetzee's best performances before his injury were at 8 with Deysel at 6. I would go Deysel at 6 and Coetzee at 8. Dunno if we go Reidy at 7 or what the status of Henry is.

Dragons played into their hands though, thats why I think someone like Stewart it could be a good test as Ulster need some structure to their game and he's an organiser and needs testing coming towards November. With the 5 day turn around and heading into altitude against Cheetahs rotation is a must. Cooney needs a break some time and we have to try new players sometime too

Brendan wrote:What are your guys views on the season so far.  I know we are only two games in but against 2 of the teams you are fighting it out with to get that home Quarter final and Champ cup spot.

Do you view it as two wins so far
1. Ground out that you would of lost last year because the team gave up.
2. Looks a better team than last year but is just dealing with getting use to the new coach and will be playing better in a month or so.
3. Very lucky and more of the same as last year.

I think it's a bit of one and two.  Interested to see how SA trip goes. Might tell us a bit more.

Ulster were very lucky that the Scarlets had so many injuries going into in the first game and Patchell having to go off early. They also were lucky that Bulbring had a brain fade to hand them the game. The Edinburgh game was the reverse of the February fixture that Ulster should have won but lost. Two lucky home wins to build some momentum is great but the forecast is still the third option for this season.

The target for the season should be to match last season's 'triumph' and qualify for the Champions Cup again. Ulster should unapologetically reserve their best resources for the PRO14, and the three home European games. The bald truth is that unless McFarland is a Voodoo Bokor, Ulster will be hugely under-resourced for Europe with their best side, so they may as well invest the opportunity into their core young players who can build on the experience for future seasons.

Brendan wrote:What are your guys views on the season so far.  I know we are only two games in but against 2 of the teams you are fighting it out with to get that home Quarter final and Champ cup spot.

Do you view it as two wins so far
1. Ground out that you would of lost last year because the team gave up.
2. Looks a better team than last year but is just dealing with getting use to the new coach and will be playing better in a month or so.
3. Very lucky and more of the same as last year.

I think it's a bit of one and two.  Interested to see how SA trip goes. Might tell us a bit more.

I think we were playing much better rugby towards the back end of last season that what we've seen this year. The attack was much slicker with McPhillip's at 10 whereas it hasn't really gelled this season yet but it is early days.

That said MacFarland needs to be given time, especially with so many new players and on paper we have recruited pretty well, so things look pretty positive.

ULSTER RUGBY TOURING SQUAD

Forwards (17)
John Andrew
Marcell Coetzee
Jean Deysel
Weihahn Herbst
Rob Herring
Ross Kane
Adam McBurney
Caleb Montgomery
Alan O'Connor
Eric O'Sullivan
Tom O'Toole
Matthew Rea
Sean Reidy
Nick Timoney
Kieran Treadwell
Andy Warwick
Greg Jones

Backs (13)
Will Addison
Billy Burns
Darren Cave
John Cooney
Angus Curtis
Craig Gilroy
Angus Kernohan
Stuart McCloskey
Johnny McPhillips
Peter Nelson
David Shanahan
Henry Speight
Jonny Stewart

No Best, Henderson, Murphy, Stockdale, Moore, McCall, vDM, Ah You and Im sure I've missed a few names too

Who's bench second row? Rea? Montgomery?

When is Moore expected back?

Didn't Deysel cover second row for Munster when he was there?