Edinburgh at Murrayfield

Red Stag asked the question as to why Edinburgh play at Murrayfield in a previous topic so thought I would start a new one to make it a seperate debate from the Heineken cup post earlier.

Stag - surely a seasoned 606er like yourself will have seen the countless debates over the years on this issue?

I am actually in the Murrayfield camp on this debate. People often say that but when you look at the alternatives it really isn't an option to go anywhere else:

Hibs and Hearts football stadium - Easter Road and Tynecastle - are football pitches and are just too small for rugby. From memory they are even smaller than Firhill (where Glasgow play) and that is a pretty small pitch. I also doubt the cash strapt SRU will be happy to pay a football club for use of their pitch when there is an empty Murrayfield. Plus we will be at the beck and call of the football authorities which is far from ideal.

Turning to the rugby club stadiums, they simply aren't big enough. Myreside, Goldenacre, Inverleigth and Meggetland etc could maybe hold 3000 max but 75% of them will be standing, and standing on top of each other at that. Plus there is little room at most of those grounds for the infrastructure that goes with it - food and beer stands etc as well as parking. Plus they are all (bar Meggetland) private schools who turn their pitches into cricket or athletic venues so might clash with the end of the rugby season.

So the next option is build a new stadium - the SRU definitely cannot afford to do that just now unfortunately. I would love to see the back pitches of Murrayfield having a stand on it - if even temporary stands like Munster had/have at one of their grounds (if I am correct?). Have 8-10000 temporary seats on one of the back pitches and I think it would be a great venue as you have all the infrastructure of Murrayfield with the smaller stadium.

So to summaries yes it is far from ideal but there really isn't any other option. It is easy enough for people to say it is stupid to play there but when you look at the alternatives I have to say that I agree with the SRU on this one (for once).

Yes the atmosphere isn't great (espeically compared to other venues) but you get good atmospheres there sometimes and we try our best! There is still a good noise for some of the HK games with over 6000 people there against some of the big teams. It can be quiet for the magners games but there still is a bit of noise.

Stag's original question

"So best case scenario the stadium is 90% empty? Why play in Murrayfield? You will never get a good atmosphere nor an enjoyable match day experience."

Yes I've seen this debate before. But its a valid one IMO.

Are football pitches too small? Many Pro12 and Aviva Premiership teams share with soccer teams.

It will cost money to go to another stadium but surely it is an investment. I go to a match for the experience and the atmosphere. The game I can see on TV. I can't imagine that 6,000 in a 70,000 stadium will ever generate the kind of atmosphere that makes a fan want to come back.

I've not been to Edinburgh so I don't have a specific answer. Just I can't imagine that the current set up looks capable of drumming a fairly apatethic following into life and progressing forward.

I would say they are too small stag. You could maybe just get away length wise (with a tiny dead ball area) but they are quite narrow.

Yes it would be an investment that would probably raise interest, get larger crowds and increase revenue but this is the SRU we're talking about here!

The one I forgot to mention was Meadowbank (where we used to play) but that place is falling down!

Hibs (Easter Road) have the bigger pitch size at 105 x 64 m. That would mean you could maybe have a 2.5m (allowing for space for advertising boards etc) dead ball area but that is a very narrow pitch at 64m!

http://www.irb.com/mm/Document/LawsRegs/0/LAW1_4515.pdf

Easter Road is a terrible pitch. It can barely survive the football season without turning to dust so Playing Rugby on it too would not benefit either Edinburgh or Hibs.

I like what Edinburgh are doing this season with the option to stand pitchside, a bit like Club games. I will almost certainly take standing room unless it's a proper dreech night.

We'll see how ideas like that one pan out. You'll probably find getting closer to the pitch will generate a better atmosphere.

Were you at the 7s this year Radge? The standing area looked fun but it was far too far back from the pitch - it wasn't even on the grass behind the dead ball area (and Murrayfield has a massive dead ball area!) so you were still quite far away from the action. If they put a bar there too it will be a good idea I think - they just need to move it close to the pitch.

I wasnae at the 7s RDW so I have not seen this Idea in practice. I am optimistic but realistic too.

The whole Idea of getting closer to the action, if that has not been achieved I have no Idea what the answer is to this conundrum without developing a stadium or temporary seating at the back of Murrayfield.

As a leinster supporter I would love a trip to Edinburgh but have never been tempted because of the dead athmospher at Murrayfield. To my mind using the practice pitches at the back of the stadium coupled with "temporary" stands like in the RDS looks the best option.

There are six pitches at the back, I dont know what these are used for, but taking two of these, closest to the stadium and car park, gives you an area approximately 145m long x 135m wide with the main stadium nearby and a large tarmac area for toilets, bars, food etc. A rugby pitch with advertising, run out area etc will take up approx 122m long x 88m wide. this leaves areas for stands of 11.5m x 88m at each end and 23.5m x 122m at either side. Seating in a stadium uses approx 1m2 per seat, allowing space for walkways etc. This allows capacity of 1,012 at each end and 2,867 on either side giving a total capacity of 7,758 which would seem perfectly for magners leage and some Heineken cup games and could be increased if the ends were standing.

The RDS uses temporary scaffold seating (uncovered) at either end which is taken down at the end of the season and a more permanant (but still temporary) covered grandstand stand along one side.

Having someting like this allows the Scottish union to keep all takings and still allows use of facilaties at Murrayfield proper. proper

Sidewinder - that is exactly what I would like to see and good of you to do the numbers for us. Fancy doing the cost of it all too and we can send it to the SRU???

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sidewinder - that is exactly what I would like to see and good of you to do the numbers for us. Fancy doing the cost of it all too and we can send it to the SRU???

Now if we can just persuade Leinster to pick up the bill as well, we'll be laughing!

Well your mans just said he won't come to support Leinster at Murrayfield because of the lack of atmosphere so we can sell it to Leinster that it will increase the supporters for Leinster too, so they might as well pay for it!

It's not as if they are short of cash!

what ever happened to this idea

Hearts FC could be sharing a new 25,000-seat stadium with Edinburgh Rugby under plans by former Rangers supremo David Murray.

http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/news/205097-david-murray-proposes-hearts-stadium-share-plans/

Sounds like the solution, based on the Liberity Stadium model

If they insist on keeping MF as Edinburgh's home, then they need to focus on filling it.

Perhaps one way is cheap tickets - working on the same principle as budget airlines.

First 5,000 tickets cost £5
Next 10,000 tickets cost £10
Tickets thereafter cost £15

If the 15,000 tickets could be sold (with the right marketing in place), the SRU could generate at least £125k not including any extra full price tickets sold.

They could also work with the local bus/train companies to put on cheap transport from around the Lothian region to encourage fans from further out to attend matches.

It would sure beat 2000 fans paying £20(?) generating far less revenue.

On the original thread I'm with RDW. It doesn't really work having Murrayfield 90% empty, but currently there are no better viable alternatives.

More can be done do drive up the numbers at Edinburgh, and whilst it'll never be a sell out, at least the capacity will always be there to grow.

We don't have any cash, so it makes no sense to ignore existing facilities, and end up giving money to football clubs just so that we can play in inferior stadia for the sake of atmosphere.

The last thing Edinburgh need is a smaller pitch anyway, it runs completely against their style of play.

Hearts need a new stadium - their current one is a toilet.

Why don't they move to Meggetland the stadium of Boroughmuir?

Granted it only has a capacity of 3,500 but it could be developed over time and as Edinburgh only have 1,500-2,000 fans anyway it would still be only half full!

I think a better solution would be for the Scottish teams to go on a tour of the Scottish clubs during the season and try and encourage support from different areas. I bet most fans from Aberdeen, Dundee and the borders really can;t be bothered to travel to larger cities to watch a rugby team, why not take the team out of the cities to make them more accessable?

If I am paying for an Edinburgh Season ticket I don't really fancy going to Aberdeen to watch Edinburgh.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:If I am paying for an Edinburgh Season ticket I don't really fancy going to Aberdeen to watch Edinburgh.

Fair point I didnt consider it, thankfully all the 4 Welsh regions are within the distance you could throw a Frisby so travelling isnt so bad, as long as you can find the M4, and seeing as it's our only motorway it isnt hard!

I agree with what you say Alyn, I'm just not sure how it could be done

I don't think the pro teams should travel - hard enough to garner support in Glasgow and Edinburgh as it is. It certainly wouldn't help to play key games away. Local loyal fans should be rewarded.

Scotland on the other hand I would agree. More games should be played away from Murrayfield, including games against the SH. I'd keep the 6 Nations at Murrayfield always, but Scotland vs South Africa at Pittodrie would be a great event.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't think the pro teams should travel - hard enough to garner support in Glasgow and Edinburgh as it is. It certainly wouldn't help to play key games away. Local loyal fans should be rewarded.

Scotland on the other hand I would agree. More games should be played away from Murrayfield, including games against the SH. I'd keep the 6 Nations at Murrayfield always, but Scotland vs South Africa at Pittodrie would be a great event.

I think the reason this is being discussed is precisely because there are so few loyal fans .

1,500 fans turning up for a home game is abysmal to be honest, this is Scotland were talking about not some tier 3 nation.
Something will have to be done because professional rugby is about generating money and it is only a matter of time before Ireland, Wales and Italy will start to wonder what exactly Scotland is bringing to the table for the Magners league.
Most of Scotland star rugby players don't play in Scotland, their home attendences are abysmal and they don't generate any sponsorship for the league, yet they take a slice of the pie.

But do you really think fans in Aberdeen and Inverness will be interested in watching a side called Edinburgh?

I think you'd get a few die hards going along at first, but the real impact would be on the already slim viewing numbers in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

The focus has to be on getting more folk into the gates at Edinburgh and Glasgow. When I do eventually move back up north, I can guarantee Edinburgh that their crowd on a Friday night will go from 1500 to 1501. Happy days!

I also think it's harsh to say most of Scotland's star players play abroad, some of them do.

Still Playing in Scotland are :

Paterson, Visser (soon to be Scottish through residency), Ford, Jacobsen, Cross, Rennie, Thompson, Kellock, Barclay, Gray, Beattie, Cusiter, Jackson and others that I can't be bothered to list.

I agree there are some prominent exiles but a lot of Scottish Talent still plays in Scotland, making it harder for emerging talent to get game time.

Hang on AD, one swallow and all that! Yes, 10/11 was a terrible season for the Scottish pro teams in the ML, but Glasgow were in the playoffs and Embra just outside them in 09/10, and Edinburgh were 2nd from memory in 08/09.

The majority of Scotland 'start' players do in fact play in Scotland - for example, against England in the 6Ns, 9 out of the starting 15 and 13 of the XXII, or against Italy, 8 out of 15, and 12 out of XXII. Not sure how you can claim that Scotland don't generate any sponsorship for the league either - last time I checked Magners was an Irish brand, and RaboDPro12 came from a Dutch company, with the latter deal concluded by a Scotsman (A Irvine, Esq.). I do agree however that home attendances are not good, altho some other countries where rugby is the so-called 'national' sport might be less impressive in that regard too?

For whats its worth, I enjoyed my trip to Edinburgh on an exceptionally cold (-16 I believe) January evening to watch Edinburgh vs Cardiff. A young outhalf named Rory Hutton announced himself and his talents to the world only to later be 'disappeared' by SRU supremo Gordon McKie as part of his insidious plot to bring down Scottish Rugby from the inside. I assume.

The atmosphere in the stadium was absolutely dead. Even the fans who were there are much less vocal than other rugby fans I've come across outside Scotland. But the facilities, normally used for corporate guests on international matchdays, were absolutely wonderful and the rugby wasnae bad either.

So, I've heard that fans are no longer allowed access to that part of the stadium and the team has been undermined by some dodgy decisions regarding which players should be kept/signed so it would seem the powers that be have successfully undermined the two elements of my visit to watch Edinburgh play that I enjoyed

Rory Hutton was an odd one. They decided to ditch him in favour of David and Alex Blair.

David Blair fulfilled his potential this season by continuing to be average. Alex Blair didn't fulfil his potential because he got injured, so they ditched him.

Edinburgh now have a converted scrum half, Godman (who missed as many games as Alex Blair last season but because he has less potential he has been retained) and CP (whose credentials as a 10 have long been buried somewhere in Frank Hadden's back yard).

-16 degree in January! Shorts and T-shirt weather that!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Hang on AD, one swallow and all that! Yes, 10/11 was a terrible season for the Scottish pro teams in the ML, but Glasgow were in the playoffs and Embra just outside them in 09/10, and Edinburgh were 2nd from memory in 08/09.

The majority of Scotland 'start' players do in fact play in Scotland - for example, against England in the 6Ns, 9 out of the starting 15 and 13 of the XXII, or against Italy, 8 out of 15, and 12 out of XXII. Not sure how you can claim that Scotland don't generate any sponsorship for the league either - last time I checked Magners was an Irish brand, and RaboDPro12 came from a Dutch company, with the latter deal concluded by a Scotsman (A Irvine, Esq.). I do agree however that home attendances are not good, altho some other countries where rugby is the so-called 'national' sport might be less impressive in that regard too?

I'm not really sure how a Scotsman being involved in the sponsorship oppertunities makes much difference someone from the sponsorship side works out. The League would of been tendered by the league and companies would of been invited to bid for it, I'm assuming Robocop put the highest bid in.
I'm not really sure attendances are so much of a problem in Wales, the biggest problem are on the day walk up prices. Season ticket holders can pay £4-£8 per game yet if you go on the day you will pay £20-£28 per person so most people don't bother. It seems Welsh regions only want season ticket holders and want to push the casual fans away wish is plain silly to be honest.

AD, apologies, the Andy Irvine remark was tonhue-in-cheek, however without the appropriate emoticon