6 Nations - IRELAND v ENGLAND 2nd Feb 2019

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6 Nations

IRELAND v ENGLAND

Saturday 02 February 2019 16:45 GMT

Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Maybe a little early but I for one can not wait for this fixture. 2nd vs 4th.

The 6 Nations is officially the BEST rugby competition........................In the World.

England starting XV (485 caps)

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

Finishers (206 caps)

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).

GeordieFalcon wrote:When we went on our winning run, we had Haskell, Kruis, Itoje, Mako etc absolutely smashing the sh!t out of the breakdown, fast aggressive clear outs etc etc.
That has gone to absolute pot over the last year etc and we look like a bunch of clueless primary school girls in that area.

This will be the difference, and why Ireland will win by two scores.

GeordieFalcon wrote:England have the attacking players to cause Ireland a lot of problems. So i'm not overly concerned there - we can score tries and points....IF WE GET DECENT BALL.

So for me it comes down to:
a) Englands Defence. Can it stay rock solid - for 80mins - im not convinced

b) Englands Pack / and specifically the breakdown. Can England match Ireland there.
Ireland are fast and brutally aggressive there.

When we went on our winning run, we had Haskell, Kruis, Itoje, Mako etc absolutely smashing the sh!t out of the breakdown, fast aggressive clear outs etc etc.
That has gone to absolute pot over the last year etc and we look like a bunch of clueless primary school girls in that area.
We need to be aggressive, fast and clever - put our head where it hurts to have any chance of winning. (Underhill missing could be a blow in that regards)

We can get a win, but it will take one hell of a performance to do so, and im not sure we are capable of that yet, with so many positions returning from injury or still up for grabs.

The weather forecast doesn't look too clever - early light snow showers and generally cold and miserable.  This should play right into the Irish game plan - attritional forward play, kick and chase, crash ball up the middle.  I am not moaning, if England could do it I would be all in favour, but I don't see us being able to match Ireland.

miaow wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:When we went on our winning run, we had Haskell, Kruis, Itoje, Mako etc absolutely smashing the sh!t out of the breakdown, fast aggressive clear outs etc etc.
That has gone to absolute pot over the last year etc and we look like a bunch of clueless primary school girls in that area.

This will be the difference, and why Ireland will win by two scores.

If Ireland dominate that breakdown as I fear they might...it could be more than 2 scores.

Theres a few England players who owe the fans a big performance, Ill be interested to see how they go...

You've always been too pessimistic gf. We look much better with an attack coach there and we have a practical full strength team out for the first time I can remember (granted that could still change!).

Im not a pessimist 7.5 im a realist.

Ive said..we are good in attack...but we also have glaring weaknesses recently which could be brutally exposed by Ireland. It will be interesting to see how we go after a decent Autumn

It's actually the attack which has caused most of the issues we had with the breakdown. The 2 phases of planned play then play off script can often lead us into getting isolated. It's sorting itself out. 2 best packs in the game find themselves up against each other so I expect it to be a bit brutal but enjoyable! For spectators at least.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

miaow wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:When we went on our winning run, we had Haskell, Kruis, Itoje, Mako etc absolutely smashing the sh!t out of the breakdown, fast aggressive clear outs etc etc.
That has gone to absolute pot over the last year etc and we look like a bunch of clueless primary school girls in that area.

This will be the difference, and why Ireland will win by two scores.

If Ireland dominate that breakdown as I fear they might...it could be more than 2 scores.

Theres a few England players who owe the fans a big performance, Ill be interested to see how they go...

Who for example? For me Itoje, against Ireland last year he was weak enough.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You've always been too pessimistic gf. We look much better with an attack coach there and we have a practical full strength team out for the first time I can remember (granted that could still change!).

Is Billy V not injured?

Collapse2005 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You've always been too pessimistic gf. We look much better with an attack coach there and we have a practical full strength team out for the first time I can remember (granted that could still change!).

Is Billy V not injured?

Not yet.

Collapse2005 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

miaow wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:When we went on our winning run, we had Haskell, Kruis, Itoje, Mako etc absolutely smashing the sh!t out of the breakdown, fast aggressive clear outs etc etc.
That has gone to absolute pot over the last year etc and we look like a bunch of clueless primary school girls in that area.

This will be the difference, and why Ireland will win by two scores.

If Ireland dominate that breakdown as I fear they might...it could be more than 2 scores.

Theres a few England players who owe the fans a big performance, Ill be interested to see how they go...

Who for example? For me Itoje, against Ireland last year he was weak enough.

Itoje seemed off form all last year. This is no longer the case

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's actually the attack which has caused most of the issues we had with the breakdown. The 2 phases of planned play then play off script can often lead us into getting isolated. It's sorting itself out. 2 best packs in the game find themselves up against each other so I expect it to be  a bit brutal but enjoyable! For spectators at least.

The isolation problem was a clever bit of coaching by Toonie that the other international coaches then nicked... and actually happened because England were running three phases of planned play. Scotland just allowed quick recycling for two phases, and while England's breakdown specialists were still in the ruck they softened the line, let a player isolate themselves and swarmed the breakdown.

It was very clever, and England weren't able to adapt their style to respond to it. In the autumn, we looked to have a very different gameplan that worked much better - a very makeshift team beat SA and Aus and gave the All Blacks a lot of trouble. There may yet be flaws in the plan that Schmidt or others can find, but I don't think we will see the isolation issue as much again.

Agree with that Poorfour. What I'd expect to see against Ireland is the Irish slowing down and competing at most of England's rucks in the Irish half, utilising an aggressive defence to keep bludgeoning them in the tackle and make sure they keep them behind the gainline - and England to response with their power game through the likes of Vunipola and Tuilagi. Which makes it very intriguing - missed tackles, marginal mistakes at the breakdown could be the difference between winning and losing. Which is the beauty of sport, particularly for the neutral.

On the other hand, I expect Ireland to be much better on their own ball, and England to be less effective at the breakdown than Ireland - they've been sloppy, even when successful, in that area in the 6Ns under EJ, so I wonder if he might hold back some of England's aggression to avoid giving away penalties against Ireland. If they're going to be more selective in the way they challenge, they might struggle - it's not easily done against Ireland, let alone without Underhill. Itoje, Mako etc crucial in that area.

Think this game might be one for the purists, but I'm sticking by my prediction: Ireland by 11, but not a 'comfortable' 11. I actually think there might be quite a few points scored - maybe a 32-21 sort of game.

LondonTiger wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You've always been too pessimistic gf. We look much better with an attack coach there and we have a practical full strength team out for the first time I can remember (granted that could still change!).

Is Billy V not injured?

Not yet.

Haha. Watch that arm.

I also think EJ will throw everything he's got at this game. Expect an interesting offensive kicking game, possibly a strange choice at 12 or 13 as well. I don't think it will solely be an attritional affair.

According to the Telegraph Marcel Coetzee plays for Ireland. Wasn't aware of that.

Also surely Dan Leavy should be on Ireland's list of injuries and perhaps Marler should not be on England's and probably not Yarde either.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/0/six-nations-2019-injury-list-england-ireland-scotland-wales/

Looks like Wales and Scotland have the biggest injury lists.

Fingers and toes crossed that he at least makes it through the Ireland game. We'd beat the rest without him, but we need him against our Guinness loving cousins

Collapse2005 wrote:According to the Telegraph Marcel Coetzee plays for Ireland. Wasn't aware of that.

Also surely Dan Leavy should be on Ireland's list of injuries and perhaps Marler should not be on England's and probably not Yarde either.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/0/six-nations-2019-injury-list-england-ireland-scotland-wales/

Looks like Wales and Scotland have the biggest injury lists.

It does qualify by saying "unavailable", but yeah it's a stretch to include Marler. Obano, Willis, Francis and Yarde are nowhere near the side either.

It's a relatively clean bill of health for England. Hartley would have made the 23. Watson and Robshaw too, but their replacements are of a similar level. Underhill is the big miss for us.

Collapse2005 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You've always been too pessimistic gf. We look much better with an attack coach there and we have a practical full strength team out for the first time I can remember (granted that could still change!).

Is Billy V not injured?

Not yet.

Haha. Watch that arm.

Which one *sigh...

It was happening a bit before that Poorfour to be fair. Perhaps the feeding of the breakdown that Owens prefer s was the perfect storm though.

Is Cokanasiga actually available and fit to start against Ireland then? Huge plus if he is but I've not heard anything about him perhaps intentionally from England?

Think he will be "fit" for the game next week but with no game time i can't imagine he'd be selected, not when we've got so many options in the back 3. Might not be the worst idea to send him back to Bath for the first two weeks, with a view to returning after the first break weekend

The breakdown is indeed key, garces is very forgiving in that area. Who ever cheats best in the rucks will win. Hopefully the pack have been briefed and look to offload rather than die with the ball.

Him and may on the wings makes even Ireland think twice about targeting the wings in the air though.....still leaves daly

Ireland have certainly dominated the collisions and gain-line battle the last 2 years. This is clearly where England need to front up. Whoever starts to get some forward momentum will be hard to stop. Players like Sheridan and Deano came into their element in these situations. I am concerned that it is still too early for Billy V to be at his best, but I think we are in better shape than the last 2 years. A rejuvenated Maro, both Vunipolas, Hughes on the bench with Manu and T'eo starting will add significantly in this crucial area. If we get some hold in the game then it is how our half backs compare to theirs in game management. Excellent kicking will be required to play the game in the right areas.

My big worry.....penalties. England are the worst offenders and Ireland the best. If there are 7/8 penalties fewer for Ireland that could be the difference. And we are repeat offenders so I have little confidence for any significant improvement.

Why is Ashton not in the reckoning? Has May 'beaten' him in the pacey-finisher-but-flawed-overall position?

May’s all round game was excellent for England last year. Probably the player of the SA tour.

May is easily in the best 3 wingers in the world on his form in the last 12 to 18 months. Flawed. Jesus.
Ashton could well be in consideration for full back where he's been playing his club rugby.

I agree he is a super winger. Probably just behind Stockdale and Ioane as best wingers around right now.

I'd disagree.but my top 3 at present!

Disagree with what?

The order.

So what order would you put them at? Its ok to say it.

May ioane Stockdale from the last year. All had great years but have barely seen may make a mistake. Why I scoffed at him being called flawed.

Picking a best 3 is a lot safer than picking the best, for so many reasons, not least national (and AB) bias.

What I do know is that May is capable of truly extraordinary feats from time to time, even if he's not always scoring as regularly as the others. Two obvious examples was the try vs the All Blacks and the game vs Argentina when he appeared to play on both wings at the same time.

Yesterday at 5:03 pm
by Yoda
The breakdown is indeed key, garces is very forgiving in that area. Who ever cheats best in the rucks will win. Hopefully the pack have been briefed and look to offload rather than die with the ball.

——————————————————

(Still haven’t worked out how to quote on an iPad)

I think that there is a lot of truth in this and that will be England’s problem, because England are not very good at cheating. I’m not saying we don’t try but I do think we are more likely to get caught and England’s penalty count shows that this is the case.

Offloading/getting rid instead is a good alternative.

No 7&1/2 wrote:May ioane Stockdale from the last year. All had great years but have barely seen may make a mistake. Why I scoffed at him being called flawed.

I like May a lot myself a lot but Stockdale averaged about a try per game last year and is currently top try scorer in the champions cup. His tries for Ireland included individual efforts to beat England in Twickers and NZ in Dublin. To top it off he was named player of the six nations after equaling the top tries record. As good as May is and he is in my view a serious talent I dont think his 2018 can compare to Stockdales.

If he were Irish Id pick May to start on the other wing along side Stockdale.

lostinwales wrote:Picking a best 3 is a lot safer than picking the best, for so many reasons, not least national (and AB) bias.

What I do know is that May is capable of truly extraordinary feats from time to time, even if he's not always scoring as regularly as the others. Two obvious examples was the try vs the All Blacks and the game vs Argentina when he appeared to play on both wings at the same time.

I think May would score more tries if England were better at the breakdown. Faster ball, more posession and turnover ball would serve him well.

I was talking form across all aspects n9t justvtries scored. Not like May isn't scoring tries however. 8d agree with lost above it comes down to what you look at. As you focus on scores from a winger it's a point of view and I've had a similar discussion with an ex poster on May vs Ashton vs Howell in the past. On tries he had a point. On watching their impacts. Their decisions ie the wider game I'm not sure too many would say Ashton though some would. I keep going back to these match ups hopefully adding up to the great game I expect. So many match ups which are quality player vs quality player.

I imagine curry is going to be a surprise to a few people this 6ns.

Is he any good at kicking?

May scored 8 tries in 11 internationals last season with 5 assists. Pretty good record in a misfiring team. It is hard to rate players though as we all look at different things with a different perspective.

If you want a chuckle though look at RugbyPass's player ratings. None of these three make the top 15 wingers in a list that is topped by Cheslin Kolbe and base Dave Kearney at 11. From memory at least 3 Irish Wingers are rated higher than Stockdale a few Kiwis higher than Ioane and about a dozen Englishmen higher than May (including Lozowski on the back of one game).

Decent kicking game for a winger. Not in full back class I'd wager as discussed perhaps here or the England nations thread.

I like my stats it and how to twist things but that site has just made me very confused! I always in my head have may down as a left winger though I know he plays both.

No 7&1/2 wrote:May ioane Stockdale from the last year. All had great years but have barely seen may make a mistake. Why I scoffed at him being called flawed.

Hahahahahahahaha. Wow.

miaow wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:May ioane Stockdale from the last year. All had great years but have barely seen may make a mistake. Why I scoffed at him being called flawed.

Hahahahahahahaha. Wow.

Seems you have a fan 7&1/2! Good point on May certainly a threat. I think he could break the tries scored record for England before he's done. I wouldn't be suprised if stockdale did the same for Ireland both quality. Overall though ione is just a bit ahead of both.

He's in a good run of form, is a good to very good finisher depending on the try scoring situation, and would obviously top the 'lateral metres run' stats. But to suggest he's the best winger in the world?

To suggest on form he is is no stretch if you know rugby. No surprise to see you suggest that takes from your view I presume some alcohol abuse and no detail on how he's flawed. You've always faltered before, it seems you do again miaow. Like I said I'm willing to see personal opinion but you do seem to have a problem in the English. Hope it clears up.

No 7&1/2 wrote:To suggest on form he is is no stretch if you know rugby. No surprise to see you suggest that takes from your  view I presume some alcohol abuse and no detail on how he's flawed. You've always faltered before, it seems you do again miaow. Like I said I'm willing to see personal opinion but you do seem to have a problem in the English. Hope it clears up.

Are you mikey in disguise? Half of that doesn't even make sense:

"No surprise to see you suggest that takes from your  view I presume some alcohol abuse and no detail on how he's flawed."

Literally no idea...

I've never seen you engage in a discussion of 'personal opinion' in good faith - as soon as it gets down to the detail, you start trolling. The onus is, SURELY, on you to try to explain why you think May is...wait for it...the best winger...in the...world...

You're dodging again then miaow. Keep at it.

Would you say I'm dodging laterally, 7.5? Evading by travelling sideways?