European Tour - 2019
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Golf
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European Tour - 2019
First topic message reminder :
New Year, Time for a New Thread.
EuroTour makes it 2019 Debut this week with the Abu Dhabi HSBC Classic Presented by EGA. Next week is Dubai and the following week is the New Saudi Event
Guessing that the EGA Presentation got Abu Dhabi a promotion to a Rolex Series event.
DJ and BK are playing in Abu Dhabi. So is Fleetwood, Stenson, Oosthuizen, RCB, Barnrat, Poulter, and Oleson
Despite the the Hired Guns from USA and Rolex Promotion, Abu Dhabi will have its lowest OWGR rating in 10 yrs. Pelley can't be happy about that.
New Year, Time for a New Thread.
EuroTour makes it 2019 Debut this week with the Abu Dhabi HSBC Classic Presented by EGA. Next week is Dubai and the following week is the New Saudi Event
Guessing that the EGA Presentation got Abu Dhabi a promotion to a Rolex Series event.
DJ and BK are playing in Abu Dhabi. So is Fleetwood, Stenson, Oosthuizen, RCB, Barnrat, Poulter, and Oleson
Despite the the Hired Guns from USA and Rolex Promotion, Abu Dhabi will have its lowest OWGR rating in 10 yrs. Pelley can't be happy about that.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: European Tour - 2019
Andy Sullivan really playing well this past month
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
- Posts : 51298
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 29
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe
Re: European Tour - 2019
Tyrrell Hatton got a bit lucky. "Threw" his club and it went a fair distance but didn't hit anyone. Wonder if the powers will do anything? Found a clip HERE
Last edited by I'm never wrong on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Found the clip)
I'm never wrong- Posts : 2948
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Just up the road, and turn right at the lights.
Re: European Tour - 2019
Went to the Scottish open on Friday and can't quite work out why the course is playing so easy. The greens and fairways look over watered and the wind isn't up but still. What has the TV commentary been saying?
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: European Tour - 2019
Same thing Mac. My pro (who has played the course several times) says course is soft and no wind. Course has no defence.
I'm never wrong- Posts : 2948
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Just up the road, and turn right at the lights.
Re: European Tour - 2019
Walking with Eddie Pepperell. Part 1 and Part 2. Mizuno sponsored. Filmed at Bearwood Lakes GC, a former club of mine. Now I drive past it as I go to my current club.
I'm never wrong- Posts : 2948
Join date : 2011-05-26
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Re: European Tour - 2019
European Tour has announced the early part of their 2019-2020 schedule thru the Masters. http://www.europeantour.com...
So far there are a few potential changes... There are 16 events listed, compared to 18 last year in that span. Missing from their schedule is the Super 6 Perth event (has been on schedule since 2012 as the Perth International or Super 6). Also missing at this point is the Maybank event in Malaysia (Played the last 4 years as a replacement for the old Maybank Malaysia that went all the way back to 1999)
A 2 event change at this point isn't surprising for the European Tour (they average 3-6 a year)... but up until last year they had done a decent job of finding quick replacements to the ones they lost... as of now no replacements for the missing 2 are indicated.
Abu Dhabi remains the only Rolex Series event in the early part of the schedule. There was some speculation the Omega Dubai might be elevated to Rolex status too, but I guess not. So far at least.
Here's a comparison of the annual number of Discontinued events on the PGA Tour vs the European Tour over the last 20 years.
So far there are a few potential changes... There are 16 events listed, compared to 18 last year in that span. Missing from their schedule is the Super 6 Perth event (has been on schedule since 2012 as the Perth International or Super 6). Also missing at this point is the Maybank event in Malaysia (Played the last 4 years as a replacement for the old Maybank Malaysia that went all the way back to 1999)
A 2 event change at this point isn't surprising for the European Tour (they average 3-6 a year)... but up until last year they had done a decent job of finding quick replacements to the ones they lost... as of now no replacements for the missing 2 are indicated.
Abu Dhabi remains the only Rolex Series event in the early part of the schedule. There was some speculation the Omega Dubai might be elevated to Rolex status too, but I guess not. So far at least.
Here's a comparison of the annual number of Discontinued events on the PGA Tour vs the European Tour over the last 20 years.
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
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Re: European Tour - 2019
I wouldn't have thought one watch company would like to be branded with a rival.....robopz wrote:There was some speculation the Omega Dubai might be elevated to Rolex status too, but I guess not. So far at least.
I'm never wrong- Posts : 2948
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Just up the road, and turn right at the lights.
Re: European Tour - 2019
LOL... Perfect reasoning NOT to be.I'm never wrong wrote:I wouldn't have thought one watch company would like to be branded with a rival.....robopz wrote:There was some speculation the Omega Dubai might be elevated to Rolex status too, but I guess not. So far at least.
Bottom line: Dubai can probably do as well building a quality field using the extra money to pay appearance fees instead of raising their purse to Rolex levels anyway. And they usually do. All it takes is the right headliners to attract attention.
robopz- Posts : 3604
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Re: European Tour - 2019
I wonder if it's completely fair to compare the two Tours? Not exactly apples and apples unless you're counting relocations as discontinuations.
And: Where do WGC's fall?
Having said which, I would say the stability of the PGA Tour is incredible, surely one of its trump (unfortunate choice of words, sorry about that) cards which I would hope Monahan doesn't underestimate.
And: Where do WGC's fall?
Having said which, I would say the stability of the PGA Tour is incredible, surely one of its trump (unfortunate choice of words, sorry about that) cards which I would hope Monahan doesn't underestimate.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
I don't know why it wouldn't be fair to compare them. I've made similar comparisons with the Champions tour and KFT tour (and even Asian tour in the past). And by the way, KFT has had similar turnover in the past to ET, Champions Tour somewhere in between.kwinigolfer wrote:I wonder if it's completely fair to compare the two Tours? Not exactly apples and apples unless you're counting relocations as discontinuations.
And: Where do WGC's fall?
Having said which, I would say the stability of the PGA Tour is incredible, surely one of its trump (unfortunate choice of words, sorry about that) cards which I would hope Monahan doesn't underestimate.
As far as the WGCs... Starting in 1999, I counted events the WGC's took over as terminating then. So the Old World Series terminated 98, Tucson & Doral when they got WGC status. Memphis terminated last year when it got WGC status. That way when they eventually left Tucson, Firestone & Doral they were already accounted for. But the WGCs have continued uninterrupted since their Inception as the CHAMPIONSHIP, INVITATIONAL, MATCH PLAY & CHAMPIONS. And I do it the same way for the Euro Tour. For example.. British Masters counts as the same event despite it changing sponsors & venues. Perth International counted as the same event despite changing formats to 6's... etc...
And I even gave the benefit of the doubt to the ET events whenever I could. For example the Maybank... Technically the original Maybank Malaysia terminated 4 years ago and that's the way the ET books it too. The Maybank played this season has technically only been in existence for four years. But I've carried it through all the way from 1999 through this year as the same event.
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: European Tour - 2019
Relocation vs discontinued:
I was getting at events like the Rocket Mortgage which, as far as I can see, as been played in four different States. Or even the Fry's/Safeway.
Just asking, but such distances in Europe mean going from different countries, different cultures, etc, etc. Not to mention different reservoirs of sponsor.
I love the research(!), but wonder if it really all is comparing like with like.
My disclaimer of the stability of the PGA Tour still applies!
I was getting at events like the Rocket Mortgage which, as far as I can see, as been played in four different States. Or even the Fry's/Safeway.
Just asking, but such distances in Europe mean going from different countries, different cultures, etc, etc. Not to mention different reservoirs of sponsor.
I love the research(!), but wonder if it really all is comparing like with like.
My disclaimer of the stability of the PGA Tour still applies!
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
Robo
As pedro said, nice work. Just wondering if you have the numbers for nett change in number of tournaments per season. If new events can roughly match the discontinued events then things aren't too bad and it would be a measure of how well each tour copes with losing an event from the schedule. I could be wrong but the LET might be down to about 15 events per year, so not a tour able to replenish lost events.
My first thought is that it's not surprising the ET has way more discontinued events given the lower budget to begin with and that they keep trying to get tournaments going in areas with little to no interest in golf.
I am also sort of with kwini on whether it is fair to compare them but I suspect for different reasons. The PGAT is the premium product with a much larger market of people interested in it, while the ET is only really of interest to hard core UK golf fans. And this isn't unlike the Old firm debate on the other thread, where one sporting entity would love to compete with its wealthier and more popular rival but the finances and fan base just don't stack up. Hopefully European tour won't end up as the ET 2.0.
As pedro said, nice work. Just wondering if you have the numbers for nett change in number of tournaments per season. If new events can roughly match the discontinued events then things aren't too bad and it would be a measure of how well each tour copes with losing an event from the schedule. I could be wrong but the LET might be down to about 15 events per year, so not a tour able to replenish lost events.
My first thought is that it's not surprising the ET has way more discontinued events given the lower budget to begin with and that they keep trying to get tournaments going in areas with little to no interest in golf.
I am also sort of with kwini on whether it is fair to compare them but I suspect for different reasons. The PGAT is the premium product with a much larger market of people interested in it, while the ET is only really of interest to hard core UK golf fans. And this isn't unlike the Old firm debate on the other thread, where one sporting entity would love to compete with its wealthier and more popular rival but the finances and fan base just don't stack up. Hopefully European tour won't end up as the ET 2.0.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: European Tour - 2019
It's always a little "sticky" to figure out. and while I'm mostly consistent with how the respective Tour's show the "legacy" of an event.. I don't always carry them the same.kwinigolfer wrote:Relocation vs discontinued:
I was getting at events like the Rocket Mortgage which, as far as I can see, as been played in four different States. Or even the Fry's/Safeway.
Just asking, but such distances in Europe mean going from different countries, different cultures, etc, etc. Not to mention different reservoirs of sponsor.
I love the research(!), but wonder if it really all is comparing like with like.
My disclaimer of the stability of the PGA Tour still applies!
THE NATIONAL - agree with the PGA Tour on this one. Long running Kemper Open (Booz Allen as it was last named) was a DC area event. It ceased to operate after 2006 thus was gone. Tiger came in with "The National" in 2007, it may have been same local... but it was with different operating entity, sponsor, venue, beneficiary and format, thus a new event. But regardless of who the sponsor was, or venue played, it remained "The National". When the Rocket Mortgage in Detroit was formed... the ONLY thing in common to the National was the sponsor. But everything else was new... so its a new event.
Maybank Malaysia... I DONT have it the same as the ET does... I wasn't aware until recently that the Maybank Malyasia had morphed into a "different event" on the ET 4 years ago. I don't know the specifics... all I know is the "Malaysian Open" ran from 1999 thru 2015 under various sponsors, the last being Maybank. Then in 2016 the Maybank Malaysia OPEN was gone and replaced by Maybank CHAMPIONSHIP... but still in Kuala Lumpur... I have carried it as the SAME event, cuz I didn't know the difference (and still don't really understand)... I guess I should fix it and discontinue the Malaysia OPEN in 2015... and start the Malaysia CHAMPIONSHIP in 2016... and now looks like I might need to discontinue the CHAMPIONSHIP in 2019.
Frys - - -1st they stepped in as a "white knight" for the Las Vegas event which unexpectedly lost it's sponsor. Shriners came in the next 2 years and co-sponsored with Frys, but it was always the "Las Vegas Open".
The Fry's.com Open was a different event entirely. Safeway Open is a far different event than the original one in GreyHawk... so you could say it's a different event... but the way it kept "morphing" along the way, its impossible to have an "end date" for one and a "beginning date" for the other. So since the Tour books it as a continuing event, so do I.
Same thing for the Perth International morphing into the Super 6 Perth... (not to mention some back and forths and stops and starts for another Perth event)
One I do differently than the Tour is Western Open... like Wiki, I have the Western Open ending in 2006 and the BMW playoff event starting in 2007... it's still run by the Western Golf Association, but any other resemblance to the Open is long gone. But the Tour books it as the same continuing event...
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: European Tour - 2019
Doral? A loss in my book.
Westchester too.
(Had forgotten about the Frys Las Vegas wrinkle!)
Agree about the Western Open.
I guess my point is that, in Europe, only the European Open (sometimes) and Open Championship move from country to country, you couldn't move the KLM to Germany for instance.
Yet US companies do that, hence my Tiger tournament example, being played in three different States, like potentially the Northern Trust, yet being the same tournament.
The Philadelphia (sorry Sr) market has proven to be unable to sustain a tournament over the past 40+ years, yet happily fields cameos of different events. They would count as a loss for, say, Austria or Denmark, but not for the BMW or Tiger boondoggle.
Not sure I'm making my point, but I do have one!!
Westchester too.
(Had forgotten about the Frys Las Vegas wrinkle!)
Agree about the Western Open.
I guess my point is that, in Europe, only the European Open (sometimes) and Open Championship move from country to country, you couldn't move the KLM to Germany for instance.
Yet US companies do that, hence my Tiger tournament example, being played in three different States, like potentially the Northern Trust, yet being the same tournament.
The Philadelphia (sorry Sr) market has proven to be unable to sustain a tournament over the past 40+ years, yet happily fields cameos of different events. They would count as a loss for, say, Austria or Denmark, but not for the BMW or Tiger boondoggle.
Not sure I'm making my point, but I do have one!!
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
Comparability... IMO ANYTHING is up for comparison. IMO the question of is it fair or not is only valid if one is trying to make a contest out of it. I'm not doing the comparisons for that purpose. I do them more in that I'm interested in the "business of professional golf tours"... and event turnover is a big factor in that.McLaren wrote:Robo
As pedro said, nice work. Just wondering if you have the numbers for nett change in number of tournaments per season. If new events can roughly match the discontinued events then things aren't too bad and it would be a measure of how well each tour copes with losing an event from the schedule. I could be wrong but the LET might be down to about 15 events per year, so not a tour able to replenish lost events.
My first thought is that it's not surprising the ET has way more discontinued events given the lower budget to begin with and that they keep trying to get tournaments going in areas with little to no interest in golf.
I am also sort of with kwini on whether it is fair to compare them but I suspect for different reasons. The PGAT is the premium product with a much larger market of people interested in it, while the ET is only really of interest to hard core UK golf fans. And this isn't unlike the Old firm debate on the other thread, where one sporting entity would love to compete with its wealthier and more popular rival but the finances and fan base just don't stack up. Hopefully European tour won't end up as the ET 2.0.
And to the "business end"... IMO the mere fact the ET has to expend so much energy finding new events to fill new gaps every year... it makes it that much more difficult to focus on the other things they need to be doing to build a stronger tour. But maybe this new schedule will help that. While the PGAT has NO intention of ceding the entire fall to the Euro Tour, PGAT has gifted the ET a great opportunity to build REAL strength within a 12-14 week stretch. Only question is, can they do that beyond just a few Rolex events... and can they even support all the fall Rolex events with strong fields.
robopz- Posts : 3604
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Re: European Tour - 2019
Absolutely Doral was a loss... as was Firestone... as was Tucson... They all have to be accounted for as "discontinued" somewhere, and I do. I just account for them as discontinued events back when they ceased being "regular events" and were taken over by WGC's. So to me the Doral Open was discontinued after 2006... despite a WGC continuing to be played at Doral for another 10 years.kwinigolfer wrote:Doral? A loss in my book.
Westchester too.
(Had forgotten about the Frys Las Vegas wrinkle!)
Agree about the Western Open.
I guess my point is that, in Europe, only the European Open (sometimes) and Open Championship move from country to country, you couldn't move the KLM to Germany for instance.
Yet US companies do that, hence my Tiger tournament example, being played in three different States, like potentially the Northern Trust, yet being the same tournament.
The Philadelphia (sorry Sr) market has proven to be unable to sustain a tournament over the past 40+ years, yet happily fields cameos of different events. They would count as a loss for, say, Austria or Denmark, but not for the BMW or Tiger boondoggle.
Not sure I'm making my point, but I do have one!!
But the WGC CHAMPIONSHIP is a CONTINUING event ever since 1999... despite playing under a bunch of different sponsor names and in Spain, Ireland, Georgia, California, England, Florida and Mexico. as is the WGC MATCH PLAY is the same event ever since 1999 despite playing with 5 different sponsor names in the title and in California, Australia, Arizona & Texas.
And yeah... I'm not sure you are making your point. If you have examples of ET events that changed countries that should be counted as continuing events... give me examples and I'll see if I have or not. Take this past 2018 to 2019... Shot Clock Masters (formerly Austrian Open), Rocco Forte Open, Fiji, Tshwane, Joburg and Shenzhen gave way to Saudia Arabia, Vic Open & Kenya Open. I don't understand how any of those discontinued events could be though of as continuing events with any of the new ones.
Events on BOTH tours can change sponsors and venues (or event cities, states and sometimes countries) at anytime and lots and lots of them do... When they do that but are still the SAME event, then it's a continuing event... Irish Open, Scottish Open, British Masters. If the entity that runs the European Open wanted to start rotating it around Europe to other countries... it would still be the the European Open. But a Doral Open has to stay at Doral... but a Florida Open can play anywhere in Florida. A French Open has to stay in France, but it can be anywhere in France...
And I'm still confused about what you are saying about the National... on one hand you seem to be suggesting THE NATIONAL which ran from 2007-2018 should be considered 3 different events because it played in 3 different states in the DC area... But on the otherhand... Detroit should be considered the SAME event despite moving to Detroit and no longer being "The National"?
robopz- Posts : 3604
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Re: European Tour - 2019
!!
I'm not making my point . . . . . . and that's OK.
I'm not making my point . . . . . . and that's OK.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
does anyone remember an announcement that the Shot Clock Masters was canceled? Robo had it on his schedule in the Tour Schedule Thread, but sometime between that time and last week it was canceled.
I have googled and went through the archives at Europeantour dot com have not found any article that it was canceled.
It was a very weak event last year (even by European Tour Standards), but for it to be on the schedule, and then ***poof*** disappear without a trace is strange.
I have googled and went through the archives at Europeantour dot com have not found any article that it was canceled.
It was a very weak event last year (even by European Tour Standards), but for it to be on the schedule, and then ***poof*** disappear without a trace is strange.
GPB- Posts : 7283
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Re: European Tour - 2019
I'm always interested in what you have to say... I just don't understand. Maybe this listing of Discontinued and new events will help you point to examples???kwinigolfer wrote:!!
I'm not making my point . . . . . . and that's OK.
European Tour History of DISCONTINUED, (listed in the year last played) NEW events (listed in the year first played) starting in 2000.
2000 -
DISCONTINUED: Turewspana Masters, Dunhill Cup (Team event), Belgian Open, Rio de Janerio Open
2001 -
DISCONTINUED: Greg Norman Holden Int, Sao Paulo Open, Argentine Open, Moroccan Open, Cannes Open
NEW: Dunhill Links (replaces Dunhill Cup), Singapore Masters, Open de Madrid
2002 -
DISCONTINUED: English Open, Great North Open, NW of Ireland Open
NEW: ANZ Championship, BMW Asian Open
2003 -
DISCONTINUED: Benson & Hedges International, Nordic Open, Trophee Lancome
NEW: Mallorca Masters, Saint-Omer Open, M2M Russian Open
2004 -
DISCONTINUED: ANZ Championship, Open de Sevilla, The Heritage
NEW: Volvo World Match Play (pre existing but made official)
2005 -
DISCONTINUED: Henieken Class, Abama Open de Canarias
NEW: TLC Classic China, New Zealand Open, Indonesia Open, Volvo China Open, Austria Open
2006 -
DISCONTINUED: NONE
NEW: Abu Dhabi HSBC, HSBC Champions
2007 -
DISCONTINUED: Mallorca Masters, Open de Madrid (see Madrid Masters in 2008), TLC China Cloassic, Deutsche Bank Players Championship
NEW: Australian Masters, Open de Andalucia, Joburg Open, Portugal Masters
2008 -
DISCONTINUED: New Zealand Open, Indian Masters, BMW Asian Open, Volvo Masters
NEW: Madrid Masters (not the same event as prior Open de Madrid, but still a "quasi" replacement), Costello Masters
2009 -
DISCONTINUED: Australian Masters, Johnnie Walker Classic, Indonesia Open, German Masters
NEW: Singapore Open, DP World Championship Dubai.
HIATUS: British Masters begins 6 year hiatus, M2M Russian Open begins 4 year Hiatus.
2010 -
DISCONTINUED & NEW: Vivendi Cup (was a 1 year official event replacing the unofficial Vivendi Trophy the prior year)
NEW: Andalucia Valdarrama Masters (2nd Andalucia event added to schedule). Trophee Hassan II (1st year of official status after 28 years as an unofficial event), Africa Open
HIATUS: European Open begins 5 year hiatus
2011 -
DISCONTINUED: Iberdola Open, Czech Open, Madrid Masters, Castello Masters, Iskandar Johar Open
NEW: Rocco Forte Open, Volvo Golf Champions
HIATUS: Open de Portugal begins 6 year hiatus
2012 -
DISCONTINUED: Open de Andalucia (ended after 2 years of 2 annual Anadalucia events, St Omer Open, Barclays Singapore Open
NEW: ISPS Handa Perth International (which will eventually morph into Perth Super 6)
HIATUS: Valderrama Masters begins 5-year hiatus
2013 -
DISCONTINUED: Seve Trophy (unofficial team event), Johnnie Walker at Gleneagles, Najeti Hotels Open (only year this usually unofficial event was OFFICIAL), Avantha Masters
NEW: Tshwane Open, Turkish Airlines Open, Nedbank Challenge (becomes official after many years unofficial), Nelson Mandela Championship, BMW Masters
HIATUS: M2M Russian Open comes off 4-year hiatus
2014 -
DISCONTINUED: Nelson Mandela Championship, Volvo World Match Play, Wales Open, Ballentines (Laguna National - Korea), NH Collection, Volvo Golf Champions
NEW: EurAsia Cup (bi-annual continuation of annual Royal Trophy that ended prior year) D+D Czech Masters, Made in Denmark
2015 -
DISCONTINUED: BMW Masters, M2M Russian Open, Madeira Islands Open, Africa Open
NEW: Hero Indian Open (1st year of ET sanctioning), AfrAsia Bank Mauritius Open, True Thailand Classic, Paul Lawrie Match Play, Schenzhen International
HIATUS: Porsche European Open and British Masters return after 5-year hiatus
2016 -
DISCONTINUED: True Thailand Classic, Kings Cup (Taiwan event with 1 year of ET sanctioning)
NEW: Fiji International, Australian PGA
2017 -
DISCONTINUED: Paul Lawrie Match Play, Open de Portugal (plays only 1 final year after coming off 6-year hiatus), Shenzhen International
NEW: Golf Sixes
HIATUS: Rocco Forte Open returns after 4-year hiatus, Andalucia Valderrama returns after 5-year hiatus.
2018 -
DISCONTINUED: Joburg Open, Tshwane Open, Fiji International, Rocco Forte Open, Shot Clock Masters (prior Austria Open)
NEW: Belgian Knockout, NBO Oman,
2019
DISCONTINUED: TBD (but looks like Maybank and Super 6 Perth may have played their last)
NEW: Saudi Open, Vic Open, Kenya Open
Last edited by robopz on Wed 14 Aug 2019, 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: European Tour - 2019
robo,
No, it wasn't the efficacy of your data and research!
It was the fact that switching events from one country to another, under the same sponsor and name, is a lot more difficult/unlikely to happen than from one State to another.
Europe (and my focus would be there and there alone) is a lot smaller, cultures, languages, potential sponsors, change quite markedly, as you obviously know, in a matter of miles, and not as it is here. Though at the present rate of division, I wouldn't rule anything out.
But you, say, Denmark and the Made In Denmark doesn't play so well in Portugal.
Yes, the ET is struggling to retain any identity, but it's a lot more difficult than mere numbers suggest.
No, it wasn't the efficacy of your data and research!
It was the fact that switching events from one country to another, under the same sponsor and name, is a lot more difficult/unlikely to happen than from one State to another.
Europe (and my focus would be there and there alone) is a lot smaller, cultures, languages, potential sponsors, change quite markedly, as you obviously know, in a matter of miles, and not as it is here. Though at the present rate of division, I wouldn't rule anything out.
But you, say, Denmark and the Made In Denmark doesn't play so well in Portugal.
Yes, the ET is struggling to retain any identity, but it's a lot more difficult than mere numbers suggest.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
Kwini... I definitely understand the "cultures" challenges of the European Tour. Some of that is due to different nations, some is due to different business, charity & golf organization cultures.
But to get back to your point on "portability of events". Going thru the schedules I really don't think it's that much difference between the Tours. The vast majority of the PGAT events can't move all over the place either, or at least not significantly more or them can than on the ET. They are married to their city or state, or locale. (Los Angeles, San Diego, Pebble, Palm Springs, Las Vegas, etc, etc...).
And the vast majority of the ones that COULD move, simply haven't. I guess you could make a case that Tournament of Champions going from La Costa to Maui did... You also made a good case for Westchester as well.. and the Western was conceived as being portable even though it settled mostly in Chicago area.
PS... and I'm leaving the WGC's out of this... because they are entirely "portable".
But to get back to your point on "portability of events". Going thru the schedules I really don't think it's that much difference between the Tours. The vast majority of the PGAT events can't move all over the place either, or at least not significantly more or them can than on the ET. They are married to their city or state, or locale. (Los Angeles, San Diego, Pebble, Palm Springs, Las Vegas, etc, etc...).
And the vast majority of the ones that COULD move, simply haven't. I guess you could make a case that Tournament of Champions going from La Costa to Maui did... You also made a good case for Westchester as well.. and the Western was conceived as being portable even though it settled mostly in Chicago area.
PS... and I'm leaving the WGC's out of this... because they are entirely "portable".
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: European Tour - 2019
Whichever way one looks at disparities between the two Tours, the PGA Tour ace is the FedEx sponsorship.
Rolex is a good start, but a bit polarising as Inw mentioned.
When I win the lottery I'll be an umbrella sponsor of the European swing of the European Tour, hoping to maintain a Rolex-style sponsorship (which I feel is a bit too opportunistic in its current form), but definitely raising prize-money across the board on all tournaments that have a chance to succeed and be sustainable. Even if that starts with guaranteeing a minimum Euro3M purse and going from there.
In generalities, the US sponsors seem to take the high monetary road, the European benefactors the low road - put on an event for the bare minimum. And that won't work in the long term! As you've elegantly pointed out.
Rolex is a good start, but a bit polarising as Inw mentioned.
When I win the lottery I'll be an umbrella sponsor of the European swing of the European Tour, hoping to maintain a Rolex-style sponsorship (which I feel is a bit too opportunistic in its current form), but definitely raising prize-money across the board on all tournaments that have a chance to succeed and be sustainable. Even if that starts with guaranteeing a minimum Euro3M purse and going from there.
In generalities, the US sponsors seem to take the high monetary road, the European benefactors the low road - put on an event for the bare minimum. And that won't work in the long term! As you've elegantly pointed out.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
✓✓✓ at least one thing remains always true regardless of which tour or event we are talkin about. IT'S ALL ABOUT SPONSOR VALUE. You can't have sponsor stability if that's not happening.kwinigolfer wrote:In generalities, the US sponsors seem to take the high monetary road, the European benefactors the low road - put on an event for the bare minimum. And that won't work in the long term! As you've elegantly pointed out.
PGA Tour seems to have it mostly figured out, even for the events that don't pull in many of the big names. And actually the European Tour has a core of about half of their events which are fairly stable as well... So for them, it's about figuring out how to stabilize and add value to that other half.
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: European Tour - 2019
Tourist season update:
Field for Porsche European Open includes Messrs:
Reed
Schauffele
Kuchar
Merritt
But precious few top Europeans.
Field for Porsche European Open includes Messrs:
Reed
Schauffele
Kuchar
Merritt
But precious few top Europeans.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
Chris Wood (T66) one of 83 pros to make the Sweden cut, his first pay day since Dubai last autumn.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
I thought the European Tour Cut policy was Top 65 and ties.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: European Tour - 2019
GPB wrote:I thought the European Tour Cut policy was Top 65 and ties.
Top 65 pros.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
kwinigolfer wrote:GPB wrote:I thought the European Tour Cut policy was Top 65 and ties.
Top 65 pros.
DAVID NYFJÄLL - Northwestern Sophomore.
Guess the Chicago Winters might look balmy to a Swede.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: European Tour - 2019
Don't imagine there's much difference in the southern (and coastal) part of Sweden - the summers on the other hand . . . . . . . .
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
kwinigolfer wrote:Don't imagine there's much difference in the southern (and coastal) part of Sweden - the summers on the other hand . . . . . . . .
Swedish summers can be absolutely scorching Kwini. It's a bit of a myth that the Nordic countries are cold places. In winter the south of Norway, Sweden and Denmark are no worse than the UK, and in summer considerably hotter with more reliable weather.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway
Re: European Tour - 2019
super_realist wrote:kwinigolfer wrote:Don't imagine there's much difference in the southern (and coastal) part of Sweden - the summers on the other hand . . . . . . . .
Swedish summers can be absolutely scorching Kwini. It's a bit of a myth that the Nordic countries are cold places. In winter the south of Norway, Sweden and Denmark are no worse than the UK, and in summer considerably hotter with more reliable weather.
Agreed. But not sustained Chicago-like summer temps, on average at any rate . . . . . . .
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
European Tour launched another beta version of a new website.
Hoepfully it will be better than their relaunch 2.5 years ago.
Noticed that Bratislava's very own Rory is playing Switzerland. Is he joining the Euro Tour? Will he Ryder Cup eligible?
Hoepfully it will be better than their relaunch 2.5 years ago.
Noticed that Bratislava's very own Rory is playing Switzerland. Is he joining the Euro Tour? Will he Ryder Cup eligible?
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: European Tour - 2019
Watching the Omega European Masters. The Mechanic only needs another 7 tournaments to beat Sam Torrance all time appearance record. Still playing well at 55.
I'm never wrong- Posts : 2948
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Just up the road, and turn right at the lights.
Re: European Tour - 2019
I thought Lewis was nuts thinking he could come over here and make just one start in the KFT Finals and get his card...
Ummm.... STRIKE THAT !!!!
Ummm.... STRIKE THAT !!!!
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: European Tour - 2019
Sent you a PM Robo
I'm never wrong- Posts : 2948
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Just up the road, and turn right at the lights.
Re: European Tour - 2019
Americans on a Busmans Holiday contributing 41 of the 113 pts in the Porsche European Open in Germany
Xander, Reed, Kuch and Merritt.
Kaymer couldn't be bothered to play in his homeland.
Xander, Reed, Kuch and Merritt.
Kaymer couldn't be bothered to play in his homeland.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: European Tour - 2019
GPB wrote:Americans on a Busmans Holiday contributing 41 of the 113 pts in the Porsche European Open in Germany
Xander, Reed, Kuch and Merritt.
Kaymer couldn't be bothered to play in his homeland.
Never understood why people thought it should be a pre-requisite to play competitions in your homeland.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway
Re: European Tour - 2019
I don't know Kaymer's exact history, but I assume he got a lot of help from the Germany Golf Association.
And I would assume that Big Golf Tournaments in Germany help promote golf and Junior Golf.
That is why I think the current Faces of German Golf have an obligation to play tournaments in their home country.
And I would assume that Big Golf Tournaments in Germany help promote golf and Junior Golf.
That is why I think the current Faces of German Golf have an obligation to play tournaments in their home country.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: European Tour - 2019
GPB wrote:I don't know Kaymer's exact history, but I assume he got a lot of help from the Germany Golf Association.
And I would assume that Big Golf Tournaments in Germany help promote golf and Junior Golf.
That is why I think the current Faces of German Golf have an obligation to play tournaments in their home country.
Yet, you haven't bothered to check if he has a reason for missing it, you just claim he "couldn't be bothered". Where's Alex Cejka? Where's Marcel Siem?
How about the Americans that don't play every single tournament in their home country? Where's their "obligation"? There's no need to be jingoistic if the course doesn't suit. Poulter famously rarely plays Wentworth because he doesn't like the course, Rose the same. It's up to the player and I'm sure that all of these guys do plenty to promote, support and provide publicity for their home countries golf bodies and charitable events. In fact, I know for certain that they do.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway
Re: European Tour - 2019
Is there's still an ET requirement that players must play their home country event? And if there is, are there are exceptions to it? I wondered about that when Rory skipped the Irish Open. But the Open was in Ireland too, so maybe that negated it? Or maybe any UK event counts for Rory?
But even if that rule still does exist I don't think it would affect Kamer anyway cuz he played the BMW International. IMO it would be best if Martin was playing this week, but I don't see it as any kind of foul that he's not.
But even if that rule still does exist I don't think it would affect Kamer anyway cuz he played the BMW International. IMO it would be best if Martin was playing this week, but I don't see it as any kind of foul that he's not.
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: European Tour - 2019
super_realist wrote:GPB wrote:I don't know Kaymer's exact history, but I assume he got a lot of help from the Germany Golf Association.
And I would assume that Big Golf Tournaments in Germany help promote golf and Junior Golf.
That is why I think the current Faces of German Golf have an obligation to play tournaments in their home country.
Yet, you haven't bothered to check if he has a reason for missing it, you just claim he "couldn't be bothered". Where's Alex Cejka? Where's Marcel Siem?
How about the Americans that don't play every single tournament in their home country? Where's their "obligation"? There's no need to be jingoistic if the course doesn't suit. Poulter famously rarely plays Wentworth because he doesn't like the course, Rose the same. It's up to the player and I'm sure that all of these guys do plenty to promote, support and provide publicity for their home countries golf bodies and charitable events. In fact, I know for certain that they do.
whoooooooooooooooooooooosh
BTW, Marcel Siem is playing the European Open, and Alex Cejka is not a European Tour player and not probably not exempt for the tournament.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: European Tour - 2019
Can anyone explain what Kuchar was up to yesterday?
In a bunker classed as a waste area and removed every grain of sand around his ball.
The commentators were not impressed.
In a bunker classed as a waste area and removed every grain of sand around his ball.
The commentators were not impressed.
4putt- Posts : 252
Join date : 2011-01-28
Location : Udon Thani
Re: European Tour - 2019
Missed the cut anyway. Took his appearance money and disappeared, no doubt Reed was very complementary about the ET, saying how much he enjoys playing over here. But the story of the tournament must be the awesome play of young Robert McIntyre4putt wrote:Can anyone explain what Kuchar was up to yesterday?
In a bunker classed as a waste area and removed every grain of sand around his ball.
The commentators were not impressed.
LadyPutt- Posts : 1197
Join date : 2011-01-27
Age : 73
Location : Fife, Scotland
Re: European Tour - 2019
I know some of you have seen Danny Willett up close. But HERE is a link to his Twitter account offering someone to caddy for him at the BMW PGA. (I haven't looked too closely, so I suspect it's for a practice round or the Pro-Am day)
I'm never wrong- Posts : 2948
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Just up the road, and turn right at the lights.
Re: European Tour - 2019
EuroTour just announced that Hovland is playing BMW PGA. Can honorary membership be far away?
Pelley will probably consulting Captain Paddy next week.
Pelley will probably consulting Captain Paddy next week.
GPB- Posts : 7283
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA
Re: European Tour - 2019
If the American team is going into the Solheim Cup with any kind of overconfidence... I think they're going to get their hats handed to them. IMO the Euro team is WAY more stout than world rankings imply. Top to bottom the Euros are playahs... And in a home game? I think they should be two point favorites.
robopz- Posts : 3604
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas
Re: European Tour - 2019
robopz wrote:If the American team is going into the Solheim Cup with any kind of overconfidence... I think they're going to get their hats handed to them. IMO the Euro team is WAY more stout than world rankings imply. Top to bottom the Euros are playahs... And in a home game? I think they should be two point favorites.
As long as neither team paints those stupid bloody flags on their cheeks I might watch for a few minutes.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway
Re: European Tour - 2019
super_realist wrote:GPB wrote:I don't know Kaymer's exact history, but I assume he got a lot of help from the Germany Golf Association.
And I would assume that Big Golf Tournaments in Germany help promote golf and Junior Golf.
That is why I think the current Faces of German Golf have an obligation to play tournaments in their home country.
Yet, you haven't bothered to check if he has a reason for missing it, you just claim he "couldn't be bothered". Where's Alex Cejka? Where's Marcel Siem?
How about the Americans that don't play every single tournament in their home country? Where's their "obligation"? There's no need to be jingoistic if the course doesn't suit. Poulter famously rarely plays Wentworth because he doesn't like the course, Rose the same. It's up to the player and I'm sure that all of these guys do plenty to promote, support and provide publicity for their home countries golf bodies and charitable events. In fact, I know for certain that they do.
I had thought the Kaymer absence was a sponsorship "thing"?
Which pretty much all golfers have to contend with in event of duelling rival sponsors - e.g. Omega & Rolex.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: European Tour - 2019
The Open has Rolex branding all over it, do you suggest the Omega players should give it a miss?
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
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