European Tour - 2019

First topic message reminder :

New Year, Time for a New Thread.

EuroTour makes it 2019 Debut this week with the Abu Dhabi HSBC Classic Presented by EGA.  Next week is Dubai and the following week is the New Saudi Event

Guessing that the EGA Presentation got Abu Dhabi a promotion to a Rolex Series event.


DJ and BK are playing in Abu Dhabi.  So is Fleetwood, Stenson, Oosthuizen, RCB, Barnrat, Poulter, and Oleson

Despite the the Hired Guns from USA and Rolex Promotion, Abu Dhabi will have its lowest OWGR rating in 10 yrs.  Pelley can't be happy about that.

McLaren wrote:Any chance of some photo evidence?

You some sort of fetishist?

How about I provide evidence when you do for all the things you've been asked for?

All I am asking for is a leg selfie, no face or anything.

You sound like one of those freaks who buys used socks

Used panties maybe but socks aren't for me.

I saw a story earlier this week talking about how a lot of top Euro players still aren't supporting Turkey or the NedBank.

The story mentioned in 2021 they will be doing away with one of the ET playoff events. Does anybody know anything about that? I would post a link to the story I saw but I can't remember where I saw it... Anyone?

Anybody who thinks the PC isn't important to both the American and international sides is just ignorant. I wouldn't expect the PC to get the hype in Europe media. as I'm also sure the RC doesn't get near the hype in Asia that it gets in Europe or the USA.

And of course PC nothing to the level of the RC, doesn't make it crap, and the players both sides definitely want to make those teams now. [Sans Jason Day of course]. Its going to take the internationals winning a couple of them to turn the interest level way up. and now with Jason Day out (and Ben An in) the internationals probably have a better chance this year.

Hadn't seen Day's w/d, but bl00dy typical of him.
Probably saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to repeat making a mess in front of his home (sort of) crowd.

I WOULD say that, since the Task Force nonsense began after Gleneagles, perhaps the US pros see the PC and RC as more of the same event, the PC being perhaps something of an audition for the RC - play a strong PC, be part of the team, may enhance your RC wildcard chances if nothing else.

Agree that Ben An for Day enhances International chances, and probably makes Ernie's pairings a little easier to match up.

Kwini... Wasn't hard to read between the lines in the early 2000s the top American players were suffering "cup fatigue". One every year for them, one every other year for everybody else was getting to the Americans a bit. I don't know what it was, but something has definitely turned that around THIS decade. and it wasn't just the task force, it was 2-3 PCs before that at least. My guess is the apathy was mostly from the players older than Tiger, but not shared among those younger than him. And please I'm not using TW as the reason (he was apathetic towards it too), it's just a those who came along younger than him have really energized the American PC thing...

But why do they show up for the Presidents Cup but not the RC, mostly anyway? Plenty last year looked utterly disengaged, starting with blokes you'd have hoped would show leadership. Just like Gleneagles.
PS: Not excusing disarray in the US from a couple of European Teams.

robopz wrote:Kwini... Wasn't hard to read between the lines in the early 2000s  the top American players were suffering "cup fatigue".  One every year for them, one every other year for everybody else was getting to the Americans a bit.   I don't know what it was, but something has definitely turned that around THIS decade. and it wasn't just the task force, it was 2-3 PCs before that at least. My guess is the apathy was mostly from the players older than Tiger, but not shared among those younger than him. And please I'm not using TW as the reason (he was apathetic towards it too), it's just a those who came along younger than him have really energized the American PC thing...

In Europe we also have a tinpot competiton like the PC called the Seve Trophy which means European players may also have "Cup fatigue"
Playing a cup competition every year  is not a good enough excuse for continual failure in the big event

kwinigolfer wrote:But why do they show up for the Presidents Cup but not the RC, mostly anyway? Plenty last year looked utterly disengaged, starting with blokes you'd have hoped would show leadership. Just like Gleneagles.
PS: Not excusing disarray in the US from a couple of European Teams.

the US dominates the internationals simply because the internationals are by far the weakest of the three "cup" teams. Europe would have dominated them similarly as well.

super_realist wrote:In Europe we also have a tinpot competiton like the PC called the Seve Trophy which means European players may also have "Cup fatigue"
Playing a cup competition every year  is not a good enough excuse for continual failure in the big event

woosh... Right over your head apparently...

The comment about cup fatigue was about Americans back in the early 2000s not being so eager to play PC has nothing to do with the American failure in Ryder cups. From my view in the cheap seats, Europe dominates RCs because they figure out some way to use the pressure to elevate their play, while the Americans choke on it. PC has NOTHING to do with it.

And comparing the Seve trophy to the President's cup is simply daft... Many of the top Europeans don't bother to participate. Europe has to go about 20-25 deep to fill their team... on both the American and international side you have the top players begging to play PC...

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:But why do they show up for the Presidents Cup but not the RC, mostly anyway? Plenty last year looked utterly disengaged, starting with blokes you'd have hoped would show leadership. Just like Gleneagles.
PS: Not excusing disarray in the US from a couple of European Teams.

 the US dominates the internationals simply because the internationals are by far the weakest of the three "cup" teams. Europe would have dominated them similarly as well.

Dominance is not my point!
US Team engagement is something much more apparent at the PC than the RC.

kwinigolfer wrote:

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:But why do they show up for the Presidents Cup but not the RC, mostly anyway? Plenty last year looked utterly disengaged, starting with blokes you'd have hoped would show leadership. Just like Gleneagles.
PS: Not excusing disarray in the US from a couple of European Teams.

 the US dominates the internationals simply because the internationals are by far the weakest of the three "cup" teams. Europe would have dominated them similarly as well.

Dominance is not my point!
US Team engagement is something much more apparent at the PC than the RC.

I'm confused what you were saying. I don't think America's failures in Ryder cups has anything to do with "team engagement".  IMO its the old "wanting it too much" thing. Americans want it and are engaged so much they're choking on the self-induced pressure...

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:But why do they show up for the Presidents Cup but not the RC, mostly anyway? Plenty last year looked utterly disengaged, starting with blokes you'd have hoped would show leadership. Just like Gleneagles.
PS: Not excusing disarray in the US from a couple of European Teams.

 the US dominates the internationals simply because the internationals are by far the weakest of the three "cup" teams. Europe would have dominated them similarly as well.

Dominance is not my point!
US Team engagement is something much more apparent at the PC than the RC.

I'm confused what you were saying. I don't think America's failures in Ryder cups has anything to do with "team engagement".  IMO its the old "wanting it too much" thing. Americans want it and are engaged so much they're choking on the self-induced pressure...

Is that what you think? To most people it would be for most of the time they seem incapable of playing as a team and pick players on sentiment rather than suitability.

America "wanted it so badly" that only Justin Thomas bothered to do the proper preparation and play Paris in a competitive environment. They "wanted it so badly" that they were unable to put their petty squabbling behind them...….again.  They "wanted it so badly" that they continue to pick players on the basis of their name (Botox and Mickelson) who have the two worst US records in Ryder Cup history. They "want it so badly" that they play more like individuals.
Yeah, they look really engaged to me.

If you "really want something". Then the US team demonstrate far too regularly how not to go about it.

I know we've been round this loop before but I reckon super is spot-on.

Forty years ago perhaps the RC was like the PC has become - pick the team and everyone knew that 8 or 9 times out of ten they'd cruise. But 1983 presented a warning that things were about to change and '85 and '87 confirmed it. Teamwork and camaraderie usually, not always obviously, trumps individuals and the US have never learned that lesson.
Also agree that, not only did Justin Thomas due his Paris due diligence, but he also played like a leader - he'll be a thorn in Europe's side for the next twenty years if he keeps his form.

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:But why do they show up for the Presidents Cup but not the RC, mostly anyway? Plenty last year looked utterly disengaged, starting with blokes you'd have hoped would show leadership. Just like Gleneagles.
PS: Not excusing disarray in the US from a couple of European Teams.

 the US dominates the internationals simply because the internationals are by far the weakest of the three "cup" teams. Europe would have dominated them similarly as well.

Dominance is not my point!
US Team engagement is something much more apparent at the PC than the RC.

I'm confused what you were saying. I don't think America's failures in Ryder cups has anything to do with "team engagement".  IMO its the old "wanting it too much" thing. Americans want it and are engaged so much they're choking on the self-induced pressure...

Is that what you think? To most people it would be for most of the time they seem incapable of playing as a team and pick players on sentiment rather than suitability.

America "wanted it so badly" that only Justin Thomas bothered to do the proper preparation and play Paris in a competitive environment. They "wanted it so badly" that they were unable to put their petty squabbling behind them...….again.  They "wanted it so badly" that they continue to pick players on the basis of their name (Botox and Mickelson) who have the two worst US records in Ryder Cup history. They "want it so badly" that they play more like individuals.
Yeah, they look really engaged to me.

If you "really want something". Then the US team demonstrate far too regularly how not to go about it.

ok... I'll give you that much... The American RC team was not willing to disrupt their season to go play Paris (which I actually give them credit for). But I think all those internal squabbles are part and parcel of exactly what I'm talking about. You guys read way too much into your side winning, as you read too much into America losing. But if you think USAs issues are because they don't care or are disengage or uninterested, then you've lost your minds...

Name any team who does well when they don't get on well?
You can see there's a genuine friendship in the European team that you just can't buy. America don't have that to anything like the same degree, plus you have so many egos like Reed and Botox who don't make good partners.
When the European camaraderie is  absent, for example when the divisive Faldo was in charge Europe got totally smashed by the Yanks and deservedly so.

I think the Americans do care, I could see that in the reaction of their team when they lost at Celtic Manor, Medinah (which was hilarious considering they had the champagne already in their dressing room) I simply don't think they are very good at being a team, and they obviously don't care as much as Europe or as much as they say they do much considering they freely admit that they didn't prepare sufficiently.

What sort of idiot goes into something wanting to win, but not doing the correct preparation. Yet America (for all their desire) don't bother to turn up and play an event or in most cases even bother playing the course at all? It's ONE event in a sea of many. How much of a disruption would that actually have been? Virtually nothing. Thomas did it, and he was the stand out Yank in the team. You can be absolutely certain that Harrington will have all the players who are likely to make that team playing next years venue. I can't imagine the next US captain even knowing where the next European hosted one is (Rome) let alone send them across to play.

There's not much history of US teams in world sport, maybe that's got something to do with it. They've got nothing to relate to because their main sports simply aren't played internationally to any great extent or at a level where anyone cares.

Again, American pick on names and reputation. Why would anyone with a brain continue to pick the two worst players in US history? Compare that to Europe, pick players who a truly great at this format, even if they aren't in form. Garcia and Poulter for example. Two of the best players in the history of the event.  European captains use their brains to select their team, American captains pick on sentiment and name.

Again Super... Giant point missing by you.

I totally get a bunch of the reasons why Americans are so lousy in Ryder Cups. We may or may not agree on what's the biggest reason. But one thing I'm about as sure of as I can be of anything, not caring ISN'T one of the reasons, and I think it's daft for anyone on either side to believe that's the case.

robopz wrote:Again Super... Giant point missing by you.

I totally get a bunch of the reasons why Americans are so lousy in Ryder Cups.  We may or may not agree on what's the biggest reason.  But one thing I'm about as sure of as I can be of anything, not caring ISN'T one of the reasons, and I think it's daft for anyone on either side to believe that's the case.

How have I missed a point? I stated in that last post that I AGREE that the Americans do care. Not my fault if you didn't pick up on that.

I don't think I have ever claimed that the Yanks don't care about Ryder Cups and I'm not sure anyone on here ever has. However, they demonstrably don't care enough to bother preparing sufficiently, they don't care enough to pick players who might actually be suited, so while they may care, it's clearly not enough for them to amend their preparation, selection process etc.

If you genuinely care about something, you don't go at it half arsed, so while they may well claim to care, and I'm sure to a point they do, but it's obviously not enough to change their schedules or behaviour even slightly. Yes, it's clear from the faces of the players that they care, but Ryder Cups is about more than just the players, and the American Ryder Cup system is either stupid, inept or doesn't care as much as the Europeans do. Whichever reason it is, they need to get it sorted.

You do realize that going to Paris is not an hour flight away for American players?

Yes Thomas was the only player that played the French Open, but several players did play Le Golf Nationale (and not Paris National) before the Open Championship.

Is there any documentation that Europeans went to Hazeltine prior to the 2016 RC? I don't remember any, mostly because I don't think it is that important.

because their main sports simply aren't played internationally to any great extent or at a level where anyone cares

You do realize that the USA is about the size of Europe and even though you don't need a passport to go from New York to California, that baseball, NFL and Basketball teams routinely make the 5000 km trek several times per year.

New York to Los Angeles 6.33 hr flights
Istanbul (or Moscow) to London 4.33 hr flights

I guess the passport necessity is what you are focusing on

Right, Gotcha

And BTW. The Ryder Cup (and Prez Cup) are still, just an exhibition

GPB wrote:You do realize that going to Paris is not an hour flight away for American players?

Yes Thomas was the only player that played the French Open, but several players did play Le Golf Nationale  (and not Paris National) before the Open Championship.

Is there any documentation that Europeans went to Hazeltine prior to the 2016 RC?  I don't remember any, mostly because I don't think it is that important.

because their main sports simply aren't played internationally to any great extent or at a level where anyone cares

You do realize that the USA is about the size of Europe and even though you don't need a passport to go from New York to California, that baseball, NFL and Basketball teams routinely make the 5000 km trek several times per year.

New York to Los Angeles  6.33 hr flights
Istanbul (or Moscow) to London 4.33 hr flights

I guess the passport necessity is what you are focusing on

Right, Gotcha

And BTW.  The Ryder Cup (and Prez Cup) are still, just an exhibition

Yes, I realise that. I've have flown to America many times. Why do you think it's a big issue? What would be so hard for them to play an event in Europe instead of another -24 boreathon in the States?

Are you seriously trying to split hairs on flight times of 2 hours? That's truly pathetic. How about the distance that the Europeans fly to simply be part of the European Tour? South Africa, Middle East, Asia, Australia. That's far more than any yank does on the PGA and yet a 7-12 hour flight once every two years to prepare for an event you supposedly "really care about" is simply a stretch too far. We clearly have 2 different levels of what "care" actually means. I'm sure the Americans "care", just not as much as they actually need to.

If you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail. Your US Ryder Cup team wrote the book on this.

Delighted for Pablo Larazzabal,  what a round that was. Had really gotten away from him but he managed to pull it back with some great heart and cajones. If anyone hasn't seen it final round highlights on the European tour YT channel.

https://youtu.be/n9dLzE4MGfI

Wowsers! GMAC 'gonna be hostin the 2020 and 21 Irish Open!

2020 at Mount Juliet, Jack Nicklaus design that hosted the WGC American Express in 2002 & 2004. Lovely course and facility. There are rumours that it will be back up North for 21, Portstewart being touted. What'about'cha!
All welcome as always!

Good news!
Never quite sure about McDowell's Mr Nice Guy persona, always suspicious there's an underlying bit of nasty underneath it all (perhaps a little bit like Casey?), but if he's putting his money (or at least his good faith) behind the two tournaments, good for him

FA Cup 3rd round draw is done. Away to Bristol City. Never mind. (Sorry wrong thread)

kwinigolfer wrote:Good news!
Never quite sure about McDowell's Mr Nice Guy persona, always suspicious there's an underlying bit of nasty underneath it all (perhaps a little bit like Casey?), but if he's putting his money (or at least his good faith) behind the two tournaments, good for him  

He’s an accountant, so whaddaya know...

Be_the_ball wrote:Wowsers! GMAC 'gonna be hostin the 2020 and 21 Irish Open!

2020 at Mount Juliet, Jack Nicklaus design that hosted the WGC American Express in 2002 & 2004. Lovely course and facility. There are rumours that it will be back up North for 21, Portstewart being touted. What'about'cha!
All welcome as always!

I don't really see who hosting an event, which is really a token position is even remotely relevant to the tournament.
I'm quite surprised that Pie Man hasn't thrown his hat into the ring to "host" one.

super_realist wrote:

Be_the_ball wrote:Wowsers! GMAC 'gonna be hostin the 2020 and 21 Irish Open!

2020 at Mount Juliet, Jack Nicklaus design that hosted the WGC American Express in 2002 & 2004. Lovely course and facility. There are rumours that it will be back up North for 21, Portstewart being touted. What'about'cha!
All welcome as always!

I don't really see who hosting an event, which is really a token position is even remotely relevant to the tournament.
I'm quite surprised that Pie Man hasn't thrown his hat into the ring to "host" one.

Except that it could well bring sponsor support and assist with marketing the event. And perhaps persuade a player or two to play who might otherwise not have done so.

Can't imagine Woods spends any of his own money, and is a two-time (at least) beneficiary, of his Bahamas event, but the galacticos in this week's field wouldn't turn up for Zach Johnson (for instance). Hopefully McDool can have a similar impact, albeit on a much lesser scale.

pedro wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Good news!
Never quite sure about McDowell's Mr Nice Guy persona, always suspicious there's an underlying bit of nasty underneath it all (perhaps a little bit like Casey?), but if he's putting his money (or at least his good faith) behind the two tournaments, good for him  

He’s an accountant, so whaddaya know...

I don't think he is. Harrington is the accountant.

But didn't he have an Economics degree at UAB? Not sure which was the Major, Engineering or Economics. 'Course, Economics is not Accounting, but still.

kwinigolfer wrote:Good news!
Never quite sure about McDowell's Mr Nice Guy persona, always suspicious there's an underlying bit of nasty underneath it all (perhaps a little bit like Casey?), but if he's putting his money (or at least his good faith) behind the two tournaments, good for him  

Being pushed back into May, this event needs all the help it can get. GMac is probably the best host they could hope for. Kind of surprised they didn't put the Irish in the open week after The Open though. That's the week before the Olympics, but I still think it would have got a lot of quality holdovers from the major.

What would be so hard for them to play an event in Europe instead of another -24 boreathon in the States?

I can think of Million$ of reasons.

BTW, I asked a question about Euros making a scouting trip to Hazeltine.  is there any documentation that they did?

FTR, the World Class Euro Golfers typically don't make several trips to Africa or Asia each year and when they do, they get paid handsomely for it.  The best Euros certainly do not travel to all those locations you listed (Africa, Australia, Middle East, Asia)

and last time I checked, the Middle East is in Asia.

According to Wiki, GMAC studied Engineering at Queen's University in Belfast before transferring to Alabama-Birmingham

GPB wrote:

What would be so hard for them to play an event in Europe instead of another -24 boreathon in the States?

I can think of Million$ of reasons.

BTW, I asked a question about Euros making a scouting trip to Hazeltine.  is there any documentation that they did?

FTR, the World Class Euro Golfers typically don't make several trips to Africa or Asia each year and when they do, they get paid handsomely for it.  The best Euros certainly do not travel to all those locations you listed (Africa, Australia, Middle East, Asia)

and last time I checked, the Middle East is in Asia.

According to Wiki, GMAC studied Engineering at Queen's University in Belfast before transferring to Alabama-Birmingham

Jesus, these guys are richer than Croesus, don't you think they could take ONE week off if they actually genuinely cared about the  Ryder Cup as much as people claim they do?
If you care about something, you prepare appropriately. If you don't care, then you don't prepare.

I didn't say that the Europeans travel to all of those destinations, but they do travel to some, so your pathetic excuse that it takes 2 more hours to travel from East to West America than it does from London to Turkey is laughable when these guys might travel from Europe to Abu Dhabi in a week.

As for Hazeltine, I'm not sure if they did go there or not, but given that it was a massacre, I'm presuming they didn't, however at the very least given how you're always on about US Ryder Cup venues being "tour stops" at the very least most of the team will have actually played the course a good few times, a stark contrast to Paris.
You can be certain though that Harrington will send them over this time, and he's already stated he expects all his team to have played the course prior to the event.

Eyetoldyouso wrote:

pedro wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Good news!
Never quite sure about McDowell's Mr Nice Guy persona, always suspicious there's an underlying bit of nasty underneath it all (perhaps a little bit like Casey?), but if he's putting his money (or at least his good faith) behind the two tournaments, good for him  

He’s an accountant, so whaddaya know...

I don't think he is. Harrington is the accountant.

McDool is not an actual accountant, but he looks like a fat accountant as has been mentioned here many times.

kwinigolfer wrote:But didn't he have an Economics degree at UAB? Not sure which was the Major, Engineering or Economics. 'Course, Economics is not Accounting, but still.

Looking at some of the tax returns from the giant tech firms (OK and others) one can draw the inference that accounting is engineering though!

Roller_Coaster wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:But didn't he have an Economics degree at UAB? Not sure which was the Major, Engineering or Economics. 'Course, Economics is not Accounting, but still.

Looking at some of the tax returns from the giant tech firms (OK and others) one can draw the inference that accounting is engineering though!

Quite so!

Whilst in Mauritius, Kayl'em (Us pronunciation apparently) Hill is having another fine tournament. Is it too soon to hope that Scotland has found another top golfer along the lines of Rob McIntyre? Let's hope so.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Calum Hill (or Cay-lum Hill if you're a Yank) will win ROTY.

super_realist wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Calum Hill (or Cay-lum Hill if you're a Yank) will win ROTY.

I see that was before he imploded yesterday. A couple of other contenders battling it out in the playoff and a great win for young Rasmus Hojgaard!

LadyPutt wrote:

super_realist wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Calum Hill (or Cay-lum Hill if you're a Yank) will win ROTY.

I see that was before he imploded yesterday. :)  A couple of other contenders battling it out in the playoff and a great win for young Rasmus Hojgaard!

Super is renowned for his ability to foresee the outcomes in sport.

McLaren wrote:

LadyPutt wrote:

super_realist wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Calum Hill (or Cay-lum Hill if you're a Yank) will win ROTY.

I see that was before he imploded yesterday.  A couple of other contenders battling it out in the playoff and a great win for young Rasmus Hojgaard!

Super is renowned for his ability to foresee the outcomes in sport.

…...and you are an expert in what? Oh, too scared to say.

Calum Hill having trouble closing tournaments out right now, but he's improving rapidly.

Super cares about ROTY.. What’s next? Presidents Cup?

pedro wrote:Super cares about ROTY.. What’s next? Presidents Cup?

I couldn't care less, just think that Hill looks a fantastic prospect.

People giving their impressions of ET players HERE

Another video HERE of duffed shots on the ET.

240 players in the field at the South African open... Split tees/waves on 2 courses with 120 each... Yikes

From the scoring it looks like one of the courses is playing three or four shots easier than the other. Most the better players (few that there are in the field) except for Oosty are well back playing the harder course.

Signs of life from Brandon Grace - what's the story with him? Seems to have been in a funk for two years.

Something completely different, but:
Last season, an on-course commentator for the Golf Channel feed of European Tour coverage was Anthony Wall, recently retired due to injury, a couple of wins and 2 x "Open" Top 12's, but pretty journeyman otherwise.
But I really liked his matter of fact on-course work. Seems to forego the laddish crap some others indulge in and provides impressive insight.
Hope we hear more of him.

Kwini - I think I've seen him do bits for Sky Sports Golf. OK chap.

kwinigolfer wrote:Signs of life from Brandon Grace - what's the story with him? Seems to have been in a funk for two years.

Something completely different, but:
Last season, an on-course commentator for the Golf Channel feed of European Tour coverage was Anthony Wall, recently retired due to injury, a couple of wins and 2 x "Open" Top 12's, but pretty journeyman otherwise.
But I really liked his matter of fact on-course work. Seems to forego the laddish crap some others indulge in and provides impressive insight.
Hope we hear more of him.

There's a curious thing about Saffa's, perhaps due to being southern equator people. I've noticed that they often do well in the early part of the season. Always worth putting an eachway on Saffa's for early tournaments as they've already had half a summer to get their game in gear. Northern Hemisphere players are half interested and half engaged from Dec to March so are also off their game a bit.