6N 2019: France v Scotland

First topic message reminder :

Saturday 23rd Feb 2019
Stade de France
KO 14:15

France


Scotland


After two opening losses for France and a home loss for Scotland, both teams are looking to get their tournament back on track. Expect a response or implosion from France at home but also expect the same from Scotland.

This could be interesting.

Mad for Chelsea wrote: France do have a real issue with home grown 10s, so many foreign players there in the Top 14.

.

That's a bit unfair, given Scotland fans are fretting about their choices at 10 given Russell's injury scare.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:France do have a real issue with home grown 10s, so many foreign players there in the Top 14.

I think with Ntamack and Jalibert that's got a good chance of turning around.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote: France do have a real issue with home grown 10s, so many foreign players there in the Top 14.

.

That's a bit unfair, given Scotland fans are fretting about their choices at 10 given Russell's injury scare.

Scotland have two pro teams to France's 14 though. And Scotland do have options behind Russell (Hastings, Horne, Weir, even Laidlaw). It's just that Russell is a stand-out, so would be a huge loss, especially as he's been bang in form, while Hastings - his natural back-up - hasn't. France for the last few years have really struggled to find a decent 10, and I don't think it's unfair to say that the number of non-French players who are first-choice FHs for their clubs plays a part there.

I'd say Camera is one of the best players France have at the moment. It's still bonkers that he's not in th squad.

We'll see what our team looks like but with a hulking French pack and an inexperianced 9/10 then we should be able to exploite the French defence around the fringes. Quick ball will be a must so our back row need to be firing.

If we send runners into thier centres all day long, we'll be out of this. Our centres will need to be on it defensivly also as big Bastareaud will run right at them, holding the defenders which wil give Fickou space to cut inside or fire the ball out to the wings.

tigertattie wrote:I'd say Camera is one of the best players France have at the moment. It's still bonkers that he's not in th squad.

We'll see what our team looks like but with a hulking French pack and an inexperianced 9/10 then we should be able to exploite the French defence around the fringes. Quick ball will be a must so our back row need to be firing.

If we send runners into thier centres all day long, we'll be out of this. Our centres will need to be on it defensivly also as big Bastareaud will run right at them, holding the defenders which wil give Fickou space to cut inside or fire the ball out to the wings.  

Yeah, Camara is who I was thinking of when I mentioned them still not picking their best flankers. I'm also a big fan of Macalou but he seems way off the radar

Think Scotland's midfield will need to be wary of Fickou / Big Bast switching throughout the game, Fickou is a very dangerous runner and if they get too fixated on the big man and he has the ball pulled back to him, well as an England fan I can attest to the damage he can do

Finn Russell has been ruled out of the game - at least they can plan for it now.

Baws, baws, baws baws.

I actually think this is probably the best thing all round, much as I has hoped Finn would play.

It won't do our preparations any good, not knowing who is going to be our FH until the Saturday before the game. Now they can make that call and run with it, for better or worse. We can't be a one man team at the end of the day and have to have the depth to cope without him. Finn was never going to play in every game.

This also gives the right message about concussion. I don't think this was that bad a knock and in years gone by, he would have been playing. It is the right thing for both himself and for the greater message, that he should sit this one out.

Agreed BigGee, plus it gives us a chance to take a proper look at Hastings or Horne. I'd go with Hastings personally. We have Greg at 9 to starve him of ball (like he used to do with Jackson) and SJ will give him familiarity at 12. France also have a rookie at 10. Horne is a great bench option.

Hopefully Russell won't have to play for Racing in between the France and Wales games. That would be annoying!

Hastings gets my vote as well, with Horne on the bench in case he struggles.

Got to look to the future and Horne is not a test 10

Well it's bad news of course, but not unexpected. Scottish teams in general seem to take the concussion issue more seriously than most (I can't remember the last time a Glasgow player came off for a HIA check and actually came back on again), and this sends the right message that it's a serious issue. For all that, it's a desperate shame to lose such a key player, especially with Hogg and Jones already out - that's basically our three most dangerous attacking players missing.

Agree with BigGee though that this at least allows the team to prepare this week knowing the situation. I think you have to go with Hastings really. Imagine for the moment the horror that Finn picks up a nasty injury that rules him out of the WC. Are we really saying we'd rather go into it with Horne as first choice 10 than with Hastings? Surely not. Hastings is still a rookie at this level (indeed even at pro level he's only really got half a season under his belt), and needs all the experience he can get leading into the WC IMO. Horne offers a good bench option, and if things do go haywire with Hastings there'll always be the option of moving Laidlaw or Horne there.

I wonder if this might also push Toonie towards Grigg at 13. There's not much between the options at OC for me, and the extra familiarity of a Horne/Hastings Johnson Grigg midfield might just tip the balance in his favour.

BigGee wrote:Hastings gets my vote as well, with Horne on the bench in case he struggles.

Got to look to the future and Horne is not a test 10

Careful now, you'll have jimbo accusing you of being a small minded Neanderthal with comments like that

I think this will show Toonie's hand. Will he stick with the proven incapable 10 in Horne or will he deploy Hastings who has a future? Toonie being the maverick that he is, should likely go with Hastings.

But it's toonie we are talking about so get ready to see Blair "I'm the new mossy" Kinghorn starting at 10 on Saturday.

If Hastings does start i can see this making or breaking him. I'm not saying he either plays well and takes the change or fluffs it and his career at 10 is over, but more if he does struggle, if he comes back and learns from it then he's still in with a shout but if he doesn’t learn, well, big Gav might not get many more family passes for Murrayfield.

Hastings problem is that he had an absolute mare against Edinburgh but so far he doesn’t seem to have used it as a learning experience and he's still stuck in his rut.

I think that's a bit harsh. He was decent against Sarries, and hasn't played since (only a couple of brief cameos off the bench).

Wow. Have you read the comments on the BBC article?

Really does show that this forum really isnt bad at all when you compare it against the troggs and puddle drinkers on the BBC thread.

Folk lauhing about about a player getting concussion, some saying injuries are an excuse for why celtic nations arent very good.

And we get worked up when we argue over who is worse, Dave Denton on Batman!!!

tigertattie wrote:Wow. Have you read the comments on the BBC article?

Really does show that this forum really isnt bad at all when you compare it against the troggs and puddle drinkers on the BBC thread.

Folk lauhing about about a player getting concussion, some saying injuries are an excuse for why celtic nations arent very good.

And we get worked up when we argue over who is worse, Dave Denton on Batman!!!

never really look at the comments there, for exactly that reason, it's just full of the worst people.

Just read the Beeb comments under the article. Has anyone accounted for Schiz recently....

tigertattie wrote:And we get worked up when we argue over who is worse, Dave Denton on Batman!!!

I know I've been away for a while, but this was settled ages ago. Denton is miles better. Wilson is more damaging to the Batman legacy than that terrible film with George Clooney.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Just read the Beeb comments under the article. Has anyone accounted for Schiz recently....

I would have hoped that some of the comments from the so called English supporters are not typical of my fellow countrymen, but these days I am less sure of that.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

tigertattie wrote:And we get worked up when we argue over who is worse, Dave Denton on Batman!!!

I know I've been away for a while, but this was settled ages ago. Denton is miles better. Wilson is more damaging to the Batman legacy than that terrible film with George Clooney.

You need to stop leaving FES. Flouder Boy can't defend the honour of Edinburgh these days as he needs to be impartial.

We've had wild accusations such as (including, but not limited to):

"Glasgow are going to win the 1872 cup"
"Wilson is the best 8 we have"
"Wilson makes others around him play better"
"Stafford McDowell has played enough minutes of pro rugby to justify a place in the starting XV for Scotland"

So with Finn out, likely Hastings at 10, Jones, Hogg and Nel, etc all missing and France picking players in position for the first time it is now inevitable we will win comfortably. Surely this is the way things work nowadays?

BamBam wrote:Pretty sure Ntamack was at 10 for the U20s, I thought that was his main position and he'd just been playing a bit of 12 at senior level

He is more of a 5/8 than a proper modern 10. Even at U20 level Carbonel was sometimes above him. Think he did play a couple of games at 10 for Toulouse .
Clearly not enough for this level. I understand why Brunel wants to have youth and speed in his backs but he then wastes everything by putting Bastareaud inside Ntamack and Dupont... makes no sense and it shows how poor we are in terms of FH (also applies to wingers but at least we can import them from Fiji). I would have gone for broke and play a few ex U20 guy there to give them game time getting rid of the likes of Guirado, Huget , Lauret in the process.

tigertattie wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

tigertattie wrote:And we get worked up when we argue over who is worse, Dave Denton on Batman!!!

I know I've been away for a while, but this was settled ages ago. Denton is miles better. Wilson is more damaging to the Batman legacy than that terrible film with George Clooney.

You need to stop leaving FES. Flouder Boy can't defend the honour of Edinburgh these days as he needs to be impartial.

We've had wild accusations such as (including, but not limited to):

"Glasgow are going to win the 1872 cup"
"Wilson is the best 8 we have"
"Wilson makes others around him play better"
"Stafford McDowell has played enough minutes of pro rugby to justify a place in the starting XV for Scotland"

Stafford who??? This is worse than when ASBO wanted a 12 year old Mark Bennett to captain the Lions, or something to that effect.

Wilson makes others around him "look" better. That's very different.

but he plays above the ground!

takethelongroad wrote:So with Finn out, likely Hastings at 10, Jones, Hogg and Nel, etc all missing and France picking players in position for the first time it is now inevitable we will win comfortably. Surely this is the way things work nowadays?

France: Ramos; Penaud, Bastareaud, Fickou, Huget; Ntamack, Dupont; Poirot, Guirado (capt), Bamda, Vahaamahina, Lambey, Lauret, Iturria, Picamoles.

Looking at that team The first thing that occurs is where is Batman when you need him? Can you imagine him putting an arm around each of the baby-faced half backs as they walk off for a Farley's Rusk and choco -milk after their warm up. George Ford still wakens up in tears.

The second thing that occurs is, if we don't get in and rattle them early on then those callow youths may just run rings round us.

Fickou versus Smiling Sam should be worth watching.

Basteraud versus Grigg I actually think this could (should) be the end of the road for the one man front row. Grigg's pace and running lines should embarrass the man who is slightly less aerodynamic, and only a few kilos lighter than, le centre Pompidou.


Mr Longroad, I fear that logic, common sense and the laws of the corporeal universe will all be redundant for 80 minutes in Paris on Saturday afternoon. Les Blues may come into the match as Les Faux Monnayeurs but I fear they shall leave the field 20+ points better than us.


Or 35 points behind. But it won't be close. Probably not. Best put your centimes, bawbees and Euros on a 3-3 draw.

With the current negativity it's hard to believe you are the same guys who will be fancying your side against England next month.

Scottrf wrote:With the current negativity it's hard to believe you are the same guys who will be fancying your side against England next month.

my flat isn't big enough for the size of pillow fort I will be assembling to watch that game.

lostinwales wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Just read the Beeb comments under the article. Has anyone accounted for Schiz recently....

I would have hoped that some of the comments from the so called English supporters are not typical of my fellow countrymen, but these days I am less sure of that.

https://twitter.com/avoidcomments?lang=en

RDW wrote:

Scottrf wrote:With the current negativity it's hard to believe you are the same guys who will be fancying your side against England next month.

my flat isn't big enough for the size of pillow fort I will be assembling to watch that game.

You chose to live in that London, what do you expect for £2, 500,000? A living room AND a kitchen(ette)?

Now looks like Parra's international career is over after his comments about training, or rather the lack thereof, under Brunel. Also selecting Belleau for the bench, ahead of Lopez, is somewhat bonkers given Toulon's absence of any kind of structured back play this season. Then again France exhibit no structured back play so maybe its a genius move!
If our back row can get into Ntamack's face and he starts to wobble then there is a good chance that France will implode.

For all our worries about Hastings lack of experience, he probably has more than Ntamack.

I don't doubt he is a great prospect, but this is a massive step up for him to try and be the playmaker in a team so lacking in confidence and self belief.

Though that no doubt means he will be MoM in a crushing French victory!

I wonder how we're going to play this - if we play fast and loose we'll be playing into their hands potentially. A crazy open game is probably the most likely way France will beat us.

If we tighten up though we're not going to win an arm wrestle against the French beasts.

One thing's for sure though - we need to keep the error and penalty count very low. We can't give France any easy outs (or ins).

There is no way we should win this game - we are without our two main play-makers, our most dangerous strike runner, a whole host of would be starters in the forwards, and playing in a place where we haven't won in 20 years....... yet I still think we have just about enough to squeeze home.

sod it. I'm doing it!

Bru's stone to the mast (where is he btw? not seen him on much)

Les Bleus 19 The Blues 28

Just bringing this back to reality, does it really make sense to play Horne at 10?

This is precisely the excuse which Toonie needs to play Hastings. Schmidt wouldn't think twice (and hasn't) about dropping Joey Carbury in, so why are we fretting about this? It's how test class players develop. Enough of this Horne at 10 nonsense.

Stick the Meatball on the bench to miss a 79th minute drop goal and Robert's your mother's brother.

It is a strange position to be in. We are missing our first choice TH, the entire starting backrow and most of the next 8-10 options, at least 5 centres, star fly half and star FB. Our 2nd/3rd choice hookers and formerly star lock are only just back from injury. Our star nine has played another 80 minutes on a rest weekend. Basically only our wings, loosehead and locks have come through unscathed.

With all that....we have a more settled side than the French.

Brunel has actually said with a straight face that he hasn't dropped Parra and Lopez for their negative comments in the press about his training regime, only that they had to be dropped because they were the main reason that France got horsed at twickers and he needs to find some new answers by giving fresh faces a chance.

Hence Du Pont and Ntamack to start in their stead. Apparently the fact that Ntamack has played almost exclusively at 12 for Toulouse, during his first season as a pro, isn't a problem. They had a chat about playing 10 and Romain said he quite likes playing 10 so that should be ok then!

How he justifies maintaining  Basteraud at 13 is anyone's guess.

George Carlin wrote:Just bringing this back to reality, does it really make sense to play Horne at 10?

This is precisely the excuse which Toonie needs to play Hastings. Schmidt wouldn't think twice (and hasn't) about dropping Joey Carbury in, so why are we fretting about this? It's how test class players develop. Enough of this Horne at 10 nonsense.

Stick the Meatball on the bench to miss a 79th minute drop goal and Robert's your mother's brother.

I guess the difference is that Carbery is getting game time at his club, whereas Hastings hasn't been and when he has played it wasn't all that well.

I'd prefer Hasting played against France, but I can totally see the argument for Horne.

Disagree with Meatball being anywhere near the side though. He's playing for the 2nd worst side in the prem, and whenever he has played for Scotland he's generally not been good enough.

I want Hastings playing on Sunday. Quite simply we can play a scrum-half at 10, a centre at 10 or a previously unsuitable international at 10. Hastings has had good or bad games, so did Russell at the same stage and the same age. But he played simply because there’s no one else and we didn’t gripe because he wasn’t Dan Parks and it would be frankly unfair on Russell to compare him to Phil Godman (don’t get me wrong Russell’s good but he’s a mere mortal).

We need Laidlaw at 9, don’t ask me why because I can’t possibly understand it. He slow and he’s ponderous and his pass isn’t even that good but without him we’re useless. Last time Horne started a six nations game at 10 we lost to Italy in a completely rudderless performance. Now it’s unfair to base someone on a single performance 4 years ago but I’m going to do it anyway. Horne is a centre, the same as Gray is a lock. Horne can do a job there at club level but for God’s sake let’s play players in their position. Same goes for Laidlaw.
I like Duncan Weir, he seems a cracking guy. And he’s very popular amongst the players. Back when him and Jackson were coming through I thought he was the future. I actually tipped him for the Lions in 2013, I can only think I was several pints deep at the time. His drop goal against Italy was a rare peak in a time of Scott Johnson shaped troughs. But he’s not good enough. He simply isn’t. He wasn’t good enough for Glasgow, he wasn’t good enough for Edinburgh. He’s not good enough for Scotland.
Let’s see what Hastings can do. If we win, that’s cracking and we know what we can do. If we lose then it’s another to add to the Poopie ton we’ve seen this century.

123456789. wrote:I want Hastings playing on Sunday. Quite simply we can play a scrum-half at 10, a centre at 10 or a previously unsuitable international at 10. Hastings has had good or bad games, so did Russell at the same stage and the same age. But he played simply because there’s no one else and we didn’t gripe because he wasn’t Dan Parks and it would be frankly unfair on Russell to compare him to Phil Godman (don’t get me wrong Russell’s good but he’s a mere mortal).

We need Laidlaw at 9, don’t ask me why because I can’t possibly understand it. He slow and he’s ponderous and his pass isn’t even that good but without him we’re useless. Last time Horne started a six nations game at 10 we lost to Italy in a completely rudderless performance. Now it’s unfair to base someone on a single performance 4 years ago but I’m going to do it anyway. Horne is a centre, the same as Gray is a lock. Horne can do a job there at club level but for God’s sake let’s play players in their position. Same goes for Laidlaw.
I like Duncan Weir, he seems a cracking guy. And he’s very popular amongst the players. Back when him and Jackson were coming through I thought he was the future. I actually tipped him for the Lions in 2013, I can only think I was several pints deep at the time. His drop goal against Italy was a rare peak in a time of Scott Johnson shaped troughs. But he’s not good enough. He simply isn’t. He wasn’t good enough for Glasgow, he wasn’t good enough for Edinburgh. He’s not good enough for Scotland.
Let’s see what Hastings can do. If we win, that’s cracking and we know what we can do. If we lose then it’s another to add to the Poopie ton we’ve seen this century.

Who is he going to play for on Sunday? 

Well if Wayne Barnes is the ref, we'll still be playing France on Sunday...

Speaking of refs, I see we've got Nic Berry on Saturday, whom I don't know anything about. Has he reffed us before? Other international games he did I might have seen?

He did Samoa in the AIs I think. Pretty inexperienced ref.

123456789. wrote:I want Hastings playing on Sunday. Quite simply we can play a scrum-half at 10, a centre at 10 or a previously unsuitable international at 10. Hastings has had good or bad games, so did Russell at the same stage and the same age. But he played simply because there’s no one else and we didn’t gripe because he wasn’t Dan Parks and it would be frankly unfair on Russell to compare him to Phil Godman (don’t get me wrong Russell’s good but he’s a mere mortal).

We need Laidlaw at 9, don’t ask me why because I can’t possibly understand it. He slow and he’s ponderous and his pass isn’t even that good but without him we’re useless. Last time Horne started a six nations game at 10 we lost to Italy in a completely rudderless performance. Now it’s unfair to base someone on a single performance 4 years ago but I’m going to do it anyway. Horne is a centre, the same as Gray is a lock. Horne can do a job there at club level but for God’s sake let’s play players in their position. Same goes for Laidlaw.
I like Duncan Weir, he seems a cracking guy. And he’s very popular amongst the players. Back when him and Jackson were coming through I thought he was the future. I actually tipped him for the Lions in 2013, I can only think I was several pints deep at the time. His drop goal against Italy was a rare peak in a time of Scott Johnson shaped troughs. But he’s not good enough. He simply isn’t. He wasn’t good enough for Glasgow, he wasn’t good enough for Edinburgh. He’s not good enough for Scotland.
Let’s see what Hastings can do. If we win, that’s cracking and we know what we can do. If we lose then it’s another to add to the Poopie ton we’ve seen this century.

There is no doubt that Horne has had some ropey performances at 10, but he came on for Finn Russell after 5 mins in our 2016 win over the French and played well, its also worth noting that Hastings recent form for Glasgow has not been good.

If we go with Hastings at 10 and assume Harris is at 13, then we have a 10, 12 & 13 with about 15 caps between them - many of which have been won off the bench.

Pity it isn't Owens. We could use a loose and fast game with a blind eye to the set piece!

I'm wondering if we'll see Hasting-Horne-Johnnson. As has been previously mentioned if Horne doesn't play we're going to have a very inexperienced midfield. Plus Johnson has been in the press recently saying how he's comfortable playing 13.

Apparently Josh Strauss has lost his passport and they are trying to put together some emergency measures to allow him to travel to France!

You could not make this up!

RDW wrote:I'm wondering if we'll see Hasting-Horne-Johnnson. As has been previously mentioned if Horne doesn't play we're going to have a very inexperienced midfield. Plus Johnson has been in the press recently saying how he's comfortable playing 13.

This is maybe not a bad shout (least worst option), if Johnson can indeed play well at 13. You could then go for the two flair players Graham and Johnstone on the bench and bring them on for the last 20 as the game breaks up a bit and hopefully the French start to tire.

It would certainly be a ball playing backline and should produce a fast open game.

RDW wrote:I'm wondering if we'll see Hasting-Horne-Johnnson. As has been previously mentioned if Horne doesn't play we're going to have a very inexperienced midfield. Plus Johnson has been in the press recently saying how he's comfortable playing 13.

I wouldn't mind that midfield at all - only question in my mind is if Johnson has good experience at 13? Something tells me he has played outside Dunbar earlier on in his Glasgow career.

BigGee wrote:Apparently Josh Strauss has lost his passport and they are trying to put together some emergency measures to allow him to travel to France!

You could not make this up!

Where did you see that??

BigGee wrote:Apparently Josh Strauss has lost his passport and they are trying to put together some emergency measures to allow him to travel to France!

You could not make this up!

Jesus! That’s ridiculous.

It's been doing the rounds on twitter from a story in the Sun (so not necessarily true).

They are saying that David Mundell has approached the foreign office to help on behalf of the SRU. That seems unlikely as Strauss has a South African passport!

It would be about the first useful thing that Mundell has done if that were the case.