6N 2019: France v Scotland

First topic message reminder :

Saturday 23rd Feb 2019
Stade de France
KO 14:15

France


Scotland


After two opening losses for France and a home loss for Scotland, both teams are looking to get their tournament back on track. Expect a response or implosion from France at home but also expect the same from Scotland.

This could be interesting.

BigGee wrote:Apparently Josh Strauss has lost his passport and they are trying to put together some emergency measures to allow him to travel to France!

You could not make this up!

FFS

https://theoffsideline.com/josh-strauss-passport/

Here it is!

Read it and weep!

Ashe's chance of playing has just improved massively. Just hope we don't see Harley again

Sometimes you just have to laugh.

Maybe they'll get it sorted out (it would indeed be the first useful thing Mundell has done in his tenure).

Otherwise, options are Bradbury to 8 and Harley/Graham/Hardie on the flank (with Richie possibly switching to BS), or Ashe at 8.

At least he noticed now and not when he turned up at the airport!

My wife used to work at Stansted on check in, the days before you could do it online and it was amazing how often that happened, people suddenly realised it was out of date or they had left them at home.

Hopefully the auld alliance holds strong and the French let him travel.

BigGee wrote:At least he noticed now and not when he turned up at the airport!

My wife used to work at Stansted on check in, the days before you could do it online and it was amazing how often that happened, people suddenly realised it was out of date or they had left them at home.

Hopefully the auld alliance holds strong and the French let him travel.

I did that last year for a work trip Realised the day before trying to check in it was out of date

https://theoffsideline.com/josh-strauss-will-make-paris/

Stand easy everyone, Josh will be on the plane!

I bet he has to buy the beers on Saturday evening though!

Where are the lawyers when you need them?

I thought we were still part of the schengen area so Josh wouldnt have needed his passport to go from the UK to France. Sure an airline may have needed it as a policy to get on the plane, but we could have sent him on the channel tunnell???

anyway, it seems to have been sorted now.

I'm off to make sure my passport is in date now

UK isn't Schengen

Scottrf wrote:UK isn't Schengen

shows what I know

As you were everyone, as you were

Scottrf wrote:UK isn't Schengen

And even if it was, was he not travelling on a South African passport?

Given that the UK foreign office got involved he must have a UK passport.

RDW wrote:Given that the UK foreign office got involved he must have a UK passport.

Offside Line says SA passport. Not actually sure how it works with nationality versus sporting qualifications.

So the UK foreign office said to the French "we have a South African man wanting to come into your country from the UK without a passport - I'm assuming that's cool because he's playing rugby??"

RDW wrote:So the UK foreign office said to the French "we have a South African man wanting to come into your country from the UK without a passport - I'm assuming that's cool because he's playing rugby??"

Well whatever they said, it worked!

In other news, Duncy is back with Worcester, so it is going to be Horne or Hastings at FH.

Phew! Good news on both counts.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/scotland/sean-maitland-says-peter-horne-has-been-promoted-to-scotland-leadership-group-1-4876551

Strong hints here that Horne is starting at 10 - would be strange to put him in the leadership group if he's on the bench!

Agree. Worrying.

I've resigned myself to whoever is picked we're in a less favourable position than having Russell, so I'm fairly relaxed who it is. If it's Hastings we have an actual 10 who plays a similar style to Russell, but is inexperienced and off form, and if it's Horne we have an experienced solid player, but he's a 12 filling in at 10.

What's more worrying is whoever is picked will be our back up goal kicker!

For goal kicking we've got the grand master, wee Greig (not the really wee Greig who may be playing at 13, the not so wee Greig that plays 9)

For longer range pops (if needed) we have Sir Blairhorn.

RDW wrote:https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/scotland/sean-maitland-says-peter-horne-has-been-promoted-to-scotland-leadership-group-1-4876551

Strong hints here that Horne is starting at 10 - would be strange to put him in the leadership group if he's on the bench!

It would suggest that Furra Linee will be starting, but it could be at 12 just as easily as 10. There is nothing in the article that says 10 for certain.


Going from the media duties; Berghan, Seymour and Maitland would seem to be starting ( Furra Linee too).


Here's who I think are the certainties;


1. Dell
2. Rambo
3. Berghan


the second row is pretty open; Ickle Jonny has looked jaded recently but we will need someone to put in his kind of defensive shift, GG seems to be the form lock at the moment so probably will start, Toolis would bring more athleticism and a greater likelihood of lineout steals (for us, mind) but Toonie hasn't been picking him, Surfer Dude could be in line for a return. The only certainty is BBB won't be starting.

6. probably Bradbury. Although with two rookie half-backs to attack I would have liked to see a real aggressive 7 hounding them all day; Barclay or Batman with Ritchie at 6.
7. Ritchie
8. Bluto

9.Frodo Who will be first choice kicker, but Furra Linee kicked very well at Cardiff.

10-12-13 Is awaiting the last spin of the Magic Tombola: conservative option is Horne-Johnson-Harris, which looks defensively sound, the least whacky option Hastings-Horne-Johnson. But there are at least five other possibles.


Back three NoMaits-King Hornblare-Seymour.

Ya know, it really is time we updated the "Scotland Pro Players Thesaurus". Poor old Whocares must be reading this thread with utter bamboozlement around who we are talking about.

The last list available still mentions players such as Nikki Walker and Kelly Brown!!!

Has Richie Grey joined the squad yet? I would have thought they'd call him up but didn't see it in any of the announcements. Maybe giving him a couple more weeks.

Horne for Hastings aside, it's a good effort from Toonie all things considered. I'd have probably also switched Bradbury and Graham but that's not a biggie. Bradbury was always going to play some part in the game.

Grigg is going to need to have to have the game of his life, but he'll make himself an awkward customer for the French defence.

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/19/02/21/four-changes-face-france

Interesting side for France. Bradbury and Grigg dropped into the starting XV and Horne at 10 rather than Hastings. Gonna be a big game for those 3 and a varied mix of experience that’s for sure.

As Grigg has been keeping Jones out of a Glasgow shirt a lot this season that swap makes sense I think. Jones hasn’t played badly he just hasn’t shined as he did in last years 6N and Grigg keeps knocking at the door with big Glasgow performances. Let’s see what he can do, fingers crossed it’ll involve scoring trys.

Pretty happy with the squad, not as mental as it easily could have been.

I totally get the thinking behind Horne starting at 10, if Hastings was in anything resembling form then he would have been straight in, but he's having a tough time of it and a 6n game away to France isn't the best time to try and get his confidence back.

Also delighted to see wee Darcy on the bench, his pace and bizarre strength coming off the bench can only be a good thing.

Still think we'll lose but I'm happy with the team that'll take the field.

I'm pretty happy with that team, all things considered - there is no good option at 13, and Grigg is probably the most dangerous option going forward although he is a huge worry defensively.

As for Horne over Hastings, I think it's the right call although can see why others might disagree. For all his limitations, I think we need his experience and he is in better form than Hastings.

I'm not sure on balance that Gray Jnr deserves his spot in the starting 15, but I suppose he has money in the bank so to speak....I just hope Toonie gives Toolis some game time.

Finally, delighted to see Graham on the bench, he could be electric in the last 20 mins.

Well its nice to see there's no Harris who has been playing rather mince in a rather mince team.

Our Centres are dangerously low on international caps but at least they've been about the Pro 14 for a good bit. It may have been better if we were facing Wales/Ireland/Italy as there'd have been familiarity on the opponents from the league.

Sam and Nick will need to stay strong against Big Bas's direct runs while also keeping an eye on Fickou who is still a classy player.

Horne, despite Jimbo's attempts at brainwashing, just isn’t an international 10. Worrying here but hopefully wee Greig will hold his hand through the process and Horne's job will be to forego the need to manage the game and concentrate on getting the ball to the backs. What’s the odds of Horne playing a blinder now and I have to eat my words? (unlikely but I'd be happy to be proven wrong)

Hopefully Berghan can put in a decent shift at 3 before ZooZander is deployed as he'll be wayyyyyy off the pace of things.

To end on a positive note though, our backrow, for all our injuries to "first choice" players, is looking rather tasty. Bradbury off the back of his MOTM return for Edinburgh, Strauss seems to be finally taking club form to the international arena and Ritchie is just growing more and more.

There are relatively few caps but with the missing players to come in, this is the time to build the outer parts of the squad.

That is what makes starting P Horne at 10 so uninspiring. It is safe without actually being safe. If he plays well, it is only a disjointed French side. If he gets beaten up, we have lost an opportunity to get key minutes for the future competition to Russell for the next 5-10 years.

It is a decent side and I am happy with the back row. Considering the injuries, the back five have a good balance. It is great to have tight carriers in the back row. It gives us actual options to get go forward and suck in defenders without having to try tight offloads all the time.

Only OC looks weak but Grigg is so small and fast that, if the ref actually penalises high shots, he may get Bas sent off. Only problem is going to be keeping Bas from being in a position to poach. Going out wide early is riskier than normal. Going to have to be patient

tigertattie wrote:Well its nice to see there's no Harris who has been playing rather mince in a rather mince team.

Our Centres are dangerously low on international caps but at least they've been about the Pro 14 for a good bit. It may have been better if we were facing Wales/Ireland/Italy as there'd have been familiarity on the opponents from the league.

Sam and Nick will need to stay strong against Big Bas's direct runs while also keeping an eye on Fickou who is still a classy player.

Horne, despite Jimbo's attempts at brainwashing, just isn’t an international 10. Worrying here but hopefully wee Greig will hold his hand through the process and Horne's job will be to forego the need to manage the game and concentrate on getting the ball to the backs. What’s the odds of Horne playing a blinder now and I have to eat my words? (unlikely but I'd be happy to be proven wrong)

Hopefully Berghan can put in a decent shift at 3 before ZooZander is deployed as he'll be wayyyyyy off the pace of things.

To end on a positive note though, our backrow, for all our injuries to "first choice" players, is looking rather tasty. Bradbury off the back of his MOTM return for Edinburgh, Strauss seems to be finally taking club form to the international arena and Ritchie is just growing more and more.

Thing is though, I don't think I saw Bastareaud carry the ball effectively a single time against england. This might speak more to englands effective defence but also might indicate how sodding useless france are. I honestly don't think Bastareaud is a good player and if you shut him down early he goes missing.

Tramptastic wrote:Thing is though, I don't think I saw Bastareaud carry the ball effectively a single time against england. This might speak more to englands effective defence but also might indicate how sodding useless france are. I honestly don't think Bastareaud is a good player and if you shut him down early he goes missing.

He's good in a very limited gameplan, like France employed last year.

But they've changed their gameplan (or more accurately removed it), so he's a bad choice.

Hazel Sapling wrote:There are relatively few caps but with the missing players to come in, this is the time to build the outer parts of the squad.

That is what makes starting P Horne at 10 so uninspiring. It is safe without actually being safe. If he plays well, it is only a disjointed French side. If he gets beaten up, we have lost an opportunity to get key minutes for the future competition to Russell for the next 5-10 years.

It is a decent side and I am happy with the back row. Considering the injuries, the back five have a good balance. It is great to have tight carriers in the back row. It gives us actual options to get go forward and suck in defenders without having to try tight offloads all the time.

Only OC looks weak but Grigg is so small and fast that, if the ref actually penalises high shots, he may get Bas sent off. Only problem is going to be keeping Bas from being in a position to poach. Going out wide early is riskier than normal. Going to have to be patient

Or you could look at it another way: Hastings chucked in to a midfield with a combined total of less than 10 caps, away to France, and has a shocker of a performance (see last few games for Glasgow), with his subsequent form falling of a cliff like Ali Price after Wales away...

I get we want to see Hastings progress, but I think putting him in as a starter is too risky given the players around him and where we are playing.

You can see why he's gone with Horne certainly, but I agree with Hazel that it's rather uninspiring: Hey ho.

Pleased to see Grigg in there, he's been generally very good for Glasgow this year (has kept Jones largely out of the side), and the familiarity of the midfield axis will surely be helpful. Hoping for another good showing from Johnson too.

Given the absences, the backrow looks more than decent. Hoping Bradbury can bring his club form (excellent before his injury, and a stonking return last Friday) to the international game.

I like the look of the bench too, seems to have plenty of impact.

Interesting that Allan gets the bench spot ahead of Bhatti. Much of a muchness, but it is a bit of a problem for Scotland that all their options there get limited gametime at their club. Much as Keeble and the Schoe have strengthened their packs, it's not ideal. Hopefully Dell's move to LI will see him starting more regularly, and I wonder if we'll see one of Allan or Bhatti move across to Edinburgh at the end of the season, with maybe Marfo or Sutherland going the other way.

Would be silly swap Allan or Bhatti of Marfo or Sutherland

Why move a 2nd/3rd choice from one club to another where'd they'd still be 2nd/3rd choice.

Well currently Allan and Bhatti are 2nd/3rd choice at Glasgow, but also in the Scotland pecking order, ahead of Marfo and Sutherland. So you'd want them to get more gametime. Switching, say, Bhatti and Marfo leaves you with Keeble - Allan - Marfo in that order at Glasgow, and Schoe - Bhatti - Sutherland at Edinburgh. Given current Scotland pecking order, I'd argue that's more useful than Keeble - Allan - Bhatti and Schoe - Sutherland - Marfo.

There's very little between Bhattie and Sutherland though, and given a run of games next season Sutherland could easily be Scotland's number 2 (he was getting there before he was injured for a long time). Bhattie was only seen as number 2 because there was no one else really - it's not like his performances were screaming for him to be picked.

Outside of Dell there's no real difference between Allan, Sutherland and Bhattie IMO, so there's no point swapping them around.

Fair point.

RDW wrote:There's very little between Bhattie and Sutherland though, and given a run of games next season Sutherland could easily be Scotland's number 2 (he was getting there before he was injured for a long time). Bhattie was only seen as number 2 because there was no one else really - it's not like his performances were screaming for him to be picked.

Outside of Dell there's no real difference between Allan, Sutherland and Bhattie IMO, so there's no point swapping them around.

I know I am alone on this, but I disagree.

Before his injury Sutherland was the form LH in Scotland and was pushing Dickinson for 1st place at Scotland and Edinburgh. He was just as dominant in the scrum and was better in the loose than Dicko. Sadly his injury was horrific and it has pushed him down the pecking order. With Dell leaving though his gametime will increase.

If he can find a run of games over the next season or two, I can see him overtaking Dell and staking a claim for Scotland. He's apparently the strongest player in the Edinburgh squad, so seems like he's getting his strength back, so I've high hopes for the lad.

Scotland by 2.

mikey_dragon wrote:Scotland by 2.

I would settle for that

BigGee wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Scotland by 2.

I would settle for that

I would to. This looks a much better French selection than faced England a fortnight ago.

Seriously, how does anyone still rate France?

The French are likely to turn up for at least one game this championship, it will be just our luck if it is this week.

Their whole is currently less than the sum of their parts, but it won't necessarily always be that way. Some of their young kids coming through are very good. They may not get there on this WC cycle and under Brunel, who seems to have lost the dressing room, but they will be good again somewhere down the line.

mikey_dragon wrote:Seriously, how does anyone still rate France?

If the game was being played at Murryfield. then i would fancy Scotland's chances.

But playing France in France, i do not see France losing this one.

mikey_dragon wrote:Seriously, how does anyone still rate France?

France have the players but have been less than the sum of their parts for a while. You look at their line-up on a Thursday and think they'll be good, then you see them on a Saturday and they're just not!

France's team looks better this week than last week time out.
Scotland's team looks weaker this time around because of the injuries.
France have an indifferent home record while Scotland have an awful away record.

Before the tournament I thought this could be a pivotal game for Scotland. If they could match their 3 home wins in 2017, this would be their best chance of getting that elusive 4th win that would make them Championship contenders. Having lost to Ireland, they'd need an away win or this tournament may be seen a failure, but with the injuries stacking up it will be a very tough ask to get anything in France.

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW wrote:There's very little between Bhattie and Sutherland though, and given a run of games next season Sutherland could easily be Scotland's number 2 (he was getting there before he was injured for a long time). Bhattie was only seen as number 2 because there was no one else really - it's not like his performances were screaming for him to be picked.

Outside of Dell there's no real difference between Allan, Sutherland and Bhattie IMO, so there's no point swapping them around.

I know I am alone on this, but I disagree.

Before his injury Sutherland was the form LH in Scotland and was pushing Dickinson for 1st place at Scotland and Edinburgh.  He was just as dominant in the scrum and was better in the loose than Dicko.  Sadly his injury was horrific and it has pushed him down the pecking order.  With Dell leaving though his gametime will increase.

If he can find a run of games over the next season or two, I can see him overtaking Dell and staking a claim for Scotland.  He's apparently the strongest player in the Edinburgh squad, so seems like he's getting his strength back, so I've high hopes for the lad.

I can see what you're saying but rugby moves on quickly and Sutherland isn't really getting a look in these days - he gets 10 minutes at the end of the game if he's lucky.

You just need to look at Marfo to see what can happen - Sutherland showed a lot of promise and was very good before his big injury, but that's all in the past now. He's not got back up to that level again yet so as much as we can say he's the potential #1 loosehead he's got to earn it with his performances.

On the plus side he's still young for a loosehead, and Dell moving on will certainly help.

On the positive side Ntamack wasnt deemd good enough to start at 10 for France U20's in their semi final or final matches last summer. he ahd toplay outside Carbonnel who controlled both games brilliantly. He also has spent almost all his time at Toulouse playing 12. As we know with Pete, a player can look good/decent at 12 and look average/pants at 10.
As France play with little or no structure in their  back play a player of Lopez' quality struggles to make any impact in the blue of France. So what chance has a rookie who has not played at 10 under this type of pressure before? I think he will either play a blinder without any fear or he will have a nightmare, throwing loose passes and kicking badly to our back three.
I guess we will find out on saturday!

BigGee wrote:The French are likely to turn up for at least one game this championship, it will be just our luck if it is this week.

Their whole is currently less than the sum of their parts, but it won't necessarily always be that way. Some of their young kids coming through are very good. They may not get there on this WC cycle and under Brunel, who seems to have lost the dressing room, but they will be good again somewhere down the line.

France are a good team playing well below the sum of their parts

RDW wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW wrote:There's very little between Bhattie and Sutherland though, and given a run of games next season Sutherland could easily be Scotland's number 2 (he was getting there before he was injured for a long time). Bhattie was only seen as number 2 because there was no one else really - it's not like his performances were screaming for him to be picked.

Outside of Dell there's no real difference between Allan, Sutherland and Bhattie IMO, so there's no point swapping them around.

I know I am alone on this, but I disagree.

Before his injury Sutherland was the form LH in Scotland and was pushing Dickinson for 1st place at Scotland and Edinburgh.  He was just as dominant in the scrum and was better in the loose than Dicko.  Sadly his injury was horrific and it has pushed him down the pecking order.  With Dell leaving though his gametime will increase.

If he can find a run of games over the next season or two, I can see him overtaking Dell and staking a claim for Scotland.  He's apparently the strongest player in the Edinburgh squad, so seems like he's getting his strength back, so I've high hopes for the lad.

I can see what you're saying but rugby moves on quickly and Sutherland isn't really getting a look in these days - he gets 10 minutes at the end of the game if he's lucky.

You just need to look at Marfo to see what can happen - Sutherland showed a lot of promise and was very good before his big injury, but that's all in the past now. He's not got back up to that level again yet so as much as we can say he's the potential #1 loosehead he's got to earn it with his performances.

On the plus side he's still young for a loosehead, and Dell moving on will certainly help.

Totally see what you are saying, I guess I am just hopeful we'll see the best of him again, and when in form, he's possibly Scotland's best LH. But you're right, he's not getting games at the moment, I was hopeful when he played and scored the other week that we were beginning to see him find his old self, but sadly he picked up a different injury and he ended up missing a few more games.

I think Marfo is a slightly different situation as he's apparently got a bit of an attitude issue, which came about after he was called up and played well for Scotland. Sutherland doesn't have that, but again I see your point in terms of how things can change.