About v2Israel Folau
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Israel Folau
by yappysnap Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:32 am
First topic message reminder :
You may or may not be aware of his latest Instagram outburst.
Personally I find views like his appalling and no matter what he may believe I do not think he should be allowed to say it in a public space like on social media. Hate speech has no place in the world, certainly not in sports and recreational settings and definitely not from role models to the future generations.
Folau should be dropped by the Wallabies and his SR side, and although I wouldn't believe any apology that came from him he should be told why his words are unacceptable.
If you haven't seen it then then here it is https://www.instagram.com/p/BwEWt2uHcLI/?hl=en
And amongst many responses here is what Gareth Thomas had to say:
You may or may not be aware of his latest Instagram outburst.
Personally I find views like his appalling and no matter what he may believe I do not think he should be allowed to say it in a public space like on social media. Hate speech has no place in the world, certainly not in sports and recreational settings and definitely not from role models to the future generations.
Folau should be dropped by the Wallabies and his SR side, and although I wouldn't believe any apology that came from him he should be told why his words are unacceptable.
If you haven't seen it then then here it is https://www.instagram.com/p/BwEWt2uHcLI/?hl=en
And amongst many responses here is what Gareth Thomas had to say:
Gareth Thomas @gareththomas14
I don’t write this with hate or anger after Israel Folau’s comments.I write with sympathy. To everyone who reads it, don’t be influenced by his words. Be the better person and be YOU. Whoever YOU is..Hell doesn’t await YOU.Happiness awaits YOU.
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Re: Israel Folau
by Cyril Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:29 am
Ok, Taylor. He’s both homophonic and dumb. The two are generally the same though.
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Re: Israel Folau
by Pie Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:30 am
Taylorman wrote:Cyril wrote:Taylorman, he’s not sacked for being ‘dumb’, he’s sacked for being homophobic (among other things).
Ahh no, he is not. You can be homophobic (among other things) without being sacked, simply by not pasting your thoughts all over Social media.
He was 'dumb' to do that, homophobic or not.
Give Taylorman this one, he is the expert on being dumb
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Re: Israel Folau
by eirebilly Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:46 am
Whilst I do not share his views, he has every right to them. Many on here, including myself, will have views/beliefs that may be offensive to others. I just do not, nor have I ever, felt that personal views/beliefs should be forced onto others. Be it by door knocking, social media etc. that's what I feel is wrong.
Saying all that, the ARU have to be very careful here as they could be seen as dismissing someone due to their own personal beliefs. Its not as if he is a person who works 9-5, he is one of the best and most high profile rugby players in the world so this could get very messy.
Saying all that, the ARU have to be very careful here as they could be seen as dismissing someone due to their own personal beliefs. Its not as if he is a person who works 9-5, he is one of the best and most high profile rugby players in the world so this could get very messy.
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Re: Israel Folau
by RDW Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:45 am
I have heard a few people say "but if gay people don't believe in hell why should they find it offensive" - a few things:
- who put them in charge of deciding what offends people?
- just because you don't believe it doesn't mean you won't be offended. Someone could say "your mum is a wh*re", which people would find offensive even though their mum's aren't in that profession
- there are plenty gay Christians out there who are already struggling balancing their faith and their sexuality.
- who put them in charge of deciding what offends people?
- just because you don't believe it doesn't mean you won't be offended. Someone could say "your mum is a wh*re", which people would find offensive even though their mum's aren't in that profession
- there are plenty gay Christians out there who are already struggling balancing their faith and their sexuality.
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Re: Israel Folau
by RDW Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:12 am
Aussie media reporting that he attended a short meeting with the ARU today.
When approached and asked by reporters whether he regretted what he posted online, he replied with “no” before before getting into a car and driving away.
Last edited by RDW on Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Israel Folau
by BigGee Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:38 am
RDW wrote:Aussie media reporting that he attended a short meeting with the ARU today.When approached and asked by reporters whether he regretted what he posted online, he replied with “no” before before getting into a car and driving away.
If that is the case then it does sound like he really does not get it, or does not care!
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Re: Israel Folau
by RDW Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:48 am
I think there's a zero chance he is going to backtrack and withdraw what he said - for all I don't agree with what he said at all, at least he's staying firm to his beliefs...
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Re: Israel Folau
by BigGee Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:53 am
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/wallabies/its-time-for-israel-to-be-moved-on-exwallabies-teammate-drew-mitchell-backs-rugby-australias-stance-on-israel-folau/news-story/96e83acdd8fbdedfae313a03eb81f2d8
A pretty damming summary of this from his ex team mate Drew Mitchell.
He also speculates as to what his real motives were and suggests he knew exactly what he was saying.
A pretty damming summary of this from his ex team mate Drew Mitchell.
He also speculates as to what his real motives were and suggests he knew exactly what he was saying.
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Re: Israel Folau
by Collapse2005 Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:09 am
That's true. It was a stupid move unless he was angling for a move elsewhere. I agree with the right to a job comments and it doesn't sit well that people get sacked for expressing their views even if they are horrible. There is good logic behind those arguments.
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Re: Israel Folau
by BigGee Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:15 am
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/12/israel-folau-tight-lipped-despite-rugby-australias-threat-of-sack
Another decent article which again questions his motives.
Apparently Mourad has publicly criticised him in L'Equipe, so it would not seem a move to Toulon is on the cards.
Australian Rugby League have also said that he won't be coming back to them.
Another decent article which again questions his motives.
Apparently Mourad has publicly criticised him in L'Equipe, so it would not seem a move to Toulon is on the cards.
Australian Rugby League have also said that he won't be coming back to them.
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Re: Israel Folau
by LondonTiger Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:17 am
Is this thread on a GCHQ watchlist? Colours seem different.
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Re: Israel Folau
by RDW Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:18 am
LondonTiger wrote:Is this thread on a GCHQ watchlist? Colours seem different.
They're different for me too - absolutely no idea why!
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:22 am
LondonTiger wrote:Is this thread on a GCHQ watchlist? Colours seem different.
Are they rainbow colours? Solidarity maybe?
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:29 am
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2019/04/israel-folau-once-poster-boy-for-gay-rugby-s-world-tournament.html
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Re: Israel Folau
by dummy_half Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:22 am
the-goon wrote:I will always defend free speech, and I will defend his right to say it even if don't agree with it.
The question is, is there a clause in his contract that mean any statements he makes as Israel Folou, the private citizen, fall into the same level of scrutiny as when he representing his employer.
As a 'celebrity' (and this would apply as much to stars in other fields), is there a difference between his personal and professional persona? In his use of social media, he will have followers because of his position as a rugby player, and so I would say that even when using his personal social media accounts, he is still de facto a representative of his club and country.
With regard to free speech, this is often somewhat mis-represented. Even in the US, there are limits on what is protected speech - incitement to violence for example is not protected. Also, the First Amendment only provides restrictions on the ability of the Government to limit freedom of speech and expression - the origin of the amendment was to avoid the situation whereby criticism of the Government itself was illegal (as had been the case for the British Government prior to the US Revolution). There is little protection against restrictions imposed by private contract, as would the case here, in that Folau's contract would have included a code of conduct (and I assume this would now include some clauses regarding the use of social media), with the objective of this code of conduct to protect the reputation of his club and national team.
As such, regardless of what Folau might think, it was stupid of him to actually make any comments on social media, especially as he had already been warned because of his earlier similar comment.
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Re: Israel Folau
by the-goon Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:43 am
yappysnap wrote:Brendan wrote:Saying certain people are going to Hell is only offensive if you believe in Hell. He listed off alot of different groups, some of us may be members of more than one of those groups. If you don't believe in Hell what's the problem. If you believe in Hell maybe you should read a bit more about who the religious book you believe in says is going there. Today we live in a world of hypocrites where we hold two opposing view in our head and can't accept that they are in conflict with each other. I don't care what you believe just make sure you know what you believe and don't lie to yourself. We haven't heard a single story of any person who Folau has treated differently because they are part of one of the groups he mentions. All this fakeness of I have a badge supporting X so I am not Y, show me how much you love me is so annoying.
Also saying he can't say things he believes is stupid. I would much rather people say to me what they think or feel rather than this fake PC to your face yet don't believe what they say. At what point do we need to Google what we are going to say to make sure it is approved to say.
France is alot less PC than Australia and many there would hold simillar views in public (unlike in Australia). In the back of my mind I wonder if he got an unbelievable offer from a French club maybe Toulon or Racing so he did an act that he knew would terminate his contract. What is the value of a player like Foley who will now have a longer off season before playing during the WC and rip things up.
Australia not having him in the 15 shirt will be less worrying WC time. If they take him back they have no morals and act on wims. If they are sad to see him go they don't believe in what they say and are only doing it to earn points with the Public.
The thought police are great until they disagree with you. They don't care if you were drunk young our stupid if you said something wrong in your life you deserve to be publicly shamed forever.
I grew up as a religious minority of non national parents who was in awkward situations continously from people who said what they were thinking. I was taught to judge people by actions not words, and it hasn't let me down. If people can't handle that other people don't see the world like them then society is failing and we better get ready for conflict.
That's an incredibly simplistic view from someone in a position of privilege.
It's not that homosexual people are suddenly going to be worried about going to hell, no one is freaking out about what happens after death suddenly. It's that someone with a social media reach of tens of thousands has decided to publicly say that this particular group are wrong and not just that they're wrong, but they should be actively punished for their life choices, that punishment if the correct thing for them and they deserve it. Now imagine how many young impressionable people he's hitting with those beliefs, ones with homosexual friends or colleagues, imagine how many homosexual people are out there worried about coming out that'll see this and be effected. Yes he can have views, but it's not ok to preach hate on a public forum as a celebrity and he should expect to be censored for it.
Punished how? In the next life, so therefore not in this life at all. Also, he states that these sinners do have a path to redemption, therefore it's clear he wants them to save themselves. How evil. He is describing the rules of entry to heaven and hell as his religion has dictated, and how to save yourself. At no point does say he doesn't want certain ppl to be saved, nor are any too far gone to be saved.
His statements do not show enjoyment or glee in the punishment to be meted, it is more a statement of fact as he sees it.
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Re: Israel Folau
by Barney McGrew did it Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:50 am
I'm not seeing any support for the "drunks,... adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters". There's at least 3 in there that have me bang-to-rights.
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Re: Israel Folau
by Brendan Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:59 am
So what I'm getting from all this is that no rugby player (or at least those professional) can have the view that Folau does, or are we saying they should be but put in the players closet. What about Transgender as that is a growing issue. With the growth of professional women's games should WR be forced to take a view on who can and can't play women's rugby or is it up to the individual player to choose their gender
Should we be calling for WR to un-member every union where homosexual behaviour is illegal in the country unless the Union states it is opposed to the law of that country. If we believe that Rugby Union should be against homophobic things shouldn't we be actively seeking them to do it.
I don't believe just because someone is famous they should have to act differently. If organisations dont like peoples views don't sign them. We need to remember that RA just signed him up on a bumper deal knowing his views and didn't have a problem with him. They didn't have an issue with his morals then. If they had morals they would not have resigned him as he opposes their views, not saying his views doesn't mean he didn't have them.
Folau has never been charged with homophobic behaviour on the field (as others have) or any other non related playing behaviour. No social media stories have come out to say how horrible Folau was to them because they were gay. I wonder if the people involved on Folau side want to use it as a test case, what he said wasn't illegal but discrimination based on ones beliefs probably is. It would be a mine field but does need to be sorted at some stage
Should we be calling for WR to un-member every union where homosexual behaviour is illegal in the country unless the Union states it is opposed to the law of that country. If we believe that Rugby Union should be against homophobic things shouldn't we be actively seeking them to do it.
I don't believe just because someone is famous they should have to act differently. If organisations dont like peoples views don't sign them. We need to remember that RA just signed him up on a bumper deal knowing his views and didn't have a problem with him. They didn't have an issue with his morals then. If they had morals they would not have resigned him as he opposes their views, not saying his views doesn't mean he didn't have them.
Folau has never been charged with homophobic behaviour on the field (as others have) or any other non related playing behaviour. No social media stories have come out to say how horrible Folau was to them because they were gay. I wonder if the people involved on Folau side want to use it as a test case, what he said wasn't illegal but discrimination based on ones beliefs probably is. It would be a mine field but does need to be sorted at some stage
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Re: Israel Folau
by Rinsure Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:02 am
I see Billy Vunipola has added his weight to the discussion, and not in a good way.
https://twitter.com/alistokesrugby/status/1116640054309474304
It's on Billy's instagram, but I'm not on that...
Just... no, Billy. No.
Well dealt with by the Aus RFU. Intolerance and hate have no place in modern society.
https://twitter.com/alistokesrugby/status/1116640054309474304
It's on Billy's instagram, but I'm not on that...
Just... no, Billy. No.
Well dealt with by the Aus RFU. Intolerance and hate have no place in modern society.
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Re: Israel Folau
by Brendan Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:03 am
Barney McGrew did it wrote:I'm not seeing any support for the "drunks,... adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters". There's at least 3 in there that have me bang-to-rights.
And that is the issue. He is quoting a verse in the bible. Either you accept or reject the verse (not the bible) you can't do both. If you accept part of the verse what's the point as that is a half truth or half lie
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:06 am
Brendan wrote:Barney McGrew did it wrote:I'm not seeing any support for the "drunks,... adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters". There's at least 3 in there that have me bang-to-rights.
And that is the issue. He is quoting a verse in the bible. Either you accept or reject the verse (not the bible) you can't do both. If you accept part of the verse what's the point as that is a half truth or half lie
What verse is he quoting?
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Re: Israel Folau
by RDW Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:07 am
Rinsure wrote:I see Billy Vunipola has added his weight to the discussion, and not in a good way.
https://twitter.com/alistokesrugby/status/1116640054309474304
It's on Billy's instagram, but I'm not on that...
Just... no, Billy. No.
Well dealt with by the Aus RFU. Intolerance and hate have no place in modern society.
Saracens and England rugby just now -
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:16 am
RDW wrote:Rinsure wrote:I see Billy Vunipola has added his weight to the discussion, and not in a good way.
https://twitter.com/alistokesrugby/status/1116640054309474304
It's on Billy's instagram, but I'm not on that...
Just... no, Billy. No.
Well dealt with by the Aus RFU. Intolerance and hate have no place in modern society.
Saracens and England rugby just now -
Does look a lot like Eddie too
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Re: Israel Folau
by Collapse2005 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:16 am
Folau has in the past promoted gay rugby:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/111990807/israel-folau-was-a-poster-boy-for-gay-rugbys-biggest-tournament
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/111990807/israel-folau-was-a-poster-boy-for-gay-rugbys-biggest-tournament
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Re: Israel Folau
by Brendan Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:19 am
Rinsure wrote:I see Billy Vunipola has added his weight to the discussion, and not in a good way.
https://twitter.com/alistokesrugby/status/1116640054309474304
It's on Billy's instagram, but I'm not on that...
Just... no, Billy. No.
Well dealt with by the Aus RFU. Intolerance and hate have no place in modern society.
Should Billy now be dropped by the RFU as liking a tweet is the same as writing it. I look forward to double standards
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:20 am
Brendan wrote:Rinsure wrote:I see Billy Vunipola has added his weight to the discussion, and not in a good way.
https://twitter.com/alistokesrugby/status/1116640054309474304
It's on Billy's instagram, but I'm not on that...
Just... no, Billy. No.
Well dealt with by the Aus RFU. Intolerance and hate have no place in modern society.
Should Billy now be dropped by the RFU as liking a tweet is the same as writing it. I look forward to double standards
Double standards by who exactly?
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Re: Israel Folau
by Brendan Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:28 am
marty2086 wrote:Brendan wrote:Rinsure wrote:I see Billy Vunipola has added his weight to the discussion, and not in a good way.
https://twitter.com/alistokesrugby/status/1116640054309474304
It's on Billy's instagram, but I'm not on that...
Just... no, Billy. No.
Well dealt with by the Aus RFU. Intolerance and hate have no place in modern society.
Should Billy now be dropped by the RFU as liking a tweet is the same as writing it. I look forward to double standards
Double standards by who exactly?
I did say I look forward to not that it has happened.
Everyone who has publicly stated they agreed with Folau being sacked should now be actively seeking Billy to be sacked by Sarries and England. If not how can it be ok to treat the two people differently for the same view
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:33 am
Brendan wrote:marty2086 wrote:Brendan wrote:Rinsure wrote:I see Billy Vunipola has added his weight to the discussion, and not in a good way.
https://twitter.com/alistokesrugby/status/1116640054309474304
It's on Billy's instagram, but I'm not on that...
Just... no, Billy. No.
Well dealt with by the Aus RFU. Intolerance and hate have no place in modern society.
Should Billy now be dropped by the RFU as liking a tweet is the same as writing it. I look forward to double standards
Double standards by who exactly?
I did say I look forward to not that it has happened.
Everyone who has publicly stated they agreed with Folau being sacked should now be actively seeking Billy to be sacked by Sarries and England. If not how can it be ok to treat the two people differently for the same view
Well there would be a number of reasons, the first being that Folau had previous and received a warning which he didn't heed and Billy has gone further and made a clearer point regarding his view point. Folau didn't
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Re: Israel Folau
by No 7&1/2 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:35 am
It's the second time Folou has done this. Vunipola comments don't go quite as far but yes he needs to be warned not to be homophobic. If he does want to echo such comments he shouldn't be welcomed to play for England.
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Re: Israel Folau
by Brendan Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:39 am
marty2086 wrote:Brendan wrote:Barney McGrew did it wrote:I'm not seeing any support for the "drunks,... adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters". There's at least 3 in there that have me bang-to-rights.
And that is the issue. He is quoting a verse in the bible. Either you accept or reject the verse (not the bible) you can't do both. If you accept part of the verse what's the point as that is a half truth or half lie
What verse is he quoting?
Galations I think it's readily available with articles on the tweet
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Re: Israel Folau
by Brendan Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:40 am
So it's ok to say them once just not twice just so I'm clear for future players caught up in this
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:47 am
Brendan wrote:marty2086 wrote:Brendan wrote:Barney McGrew did it wrote:I'm not seeing any support for the "drunks,... adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters". There's at least 3 in there that have me bang-to-rights.
And that is the issue. He is quoting a verse in the bible. Either you accept or reject the verse (not the bible) you can't do both. If you accept part of the verse what's the point as that is a half truth or half lie
What verse is he quoting?
Galations I think it's readily available with articles on the tweet
Except Galations doesn't mention homosexuality, it mentions immorality
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Re: Israel Folau
by No 7&1/2 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:50 am
I don't think it's right for anyone to be homophobic Brendan.i think people make mistakes and can apologise. There comes a time where lines have to be drawn. If Vunipola wants to follow Folou in his comments he can do so and give up his England career.
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:52 am
Brendan wrote:So it's ok to say them once just not twice just so I'm clear for future players caught up in this
No one said that but since there are policies and laws around it all people can call for him to be sacked all they want it doesn't mean the RFU could do it just like the ARU may not have been in a position to do it before
But some people may be more understanding of someone making a mistake, they may not be as sympathetic of them making it again.
Just a pity Billy and others weren't more familiar with the Gospels than the hateful elements of the Bible
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Re: Israel Folau
by Brendan Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:53 am
If you would like to give the English for each of the hebrew/Greek words used in that verse for each group that is condemned by Paul
Peoples view is theirs. You either accept or reject the verse you can't pick and choose what on the list you agree with
Peoples view is theirs. You either accept or reject the verse you can't pick and choose what on the list you agree with
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:56 am
Brendan wrote:If you would like to give the English for each of the hebrew/Greek words used in that verse for each group that is condemned by Paul
Peoples view is theirs. You either accept or reject the verse you can't pick and choose what on the list you agree with
Well it seems Izzy and the other ignorants like him pick and choose plenty in the bible that doesn't suit them since it's loaded with contradictions
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Re: Israel Folau
by Brendan Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:03 pm
marty2086 wrote:Brendan wrote:So it's ok to say them once just not twice just so I'm clear for future players caught up in this
No one said that but since there are policies and laws around it all people can call for him to be sacked all they want it doesn't mean the RFU could do it just like the ARU may not have been in a position to do it before
But some people may be more understanding of someone making a mistake, they may not be as sympathetic of them making it again.
Just a pity Billy and others weren't more familiar with the Gospels than the hateful elements of the Bible
Look Marty I don't want to get in a fight over this. Like lots of PIs Billy and Folau come from religious backgrounds. Billy doesn't view it as a mistake and has sent a second one to confirm it wasn't a mistake.
This isn't the place for religious debate so sorry if I turned it into one. I am here to talk rugby so I am going to ignore this thread going forward as it has nothing to do with Rugby
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:07 pm
You make a point then say you don't want to debate the matter?Brendan wrote:marty2086 wrote:Brendan wrote:So it's ok to say them once just not twice just so I'm clear for future players caught up in this
No one said that but since there are policies and laws around it all people can call for him to be sacked all they want it doesn't mean the RFU could do it just like the ARU may not have been in a position to do it before
But some people may be more understanding of someone making a mistake, they may not be as sympathetic of them making it again.
Just a pity Billy and others weren't more familiar with the Gospels than the hateful elements of the Bible
Look Marty I don't want to get in a fight over this. Like lots of PIs Billy and Folau come from religious backgrounds. Billy doesn't view it as a mistake and has sent a second one to confirm it wasn't a mistake.
This isn't the place for religious debate so sorry if I turned it into one. I am here to talk rugby so I am going to ignore this thread going forward as it has nothing to do with Rugby
Seems you like contradictions of your own
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Re: Israel Folau
by Pete330v2 Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:16 pm
I honestly feel for the guy. He's been indoctrinated with a religious belief that he believes in strongly enough to throw his career to the same firey pit he alludes to in his social media post. I take this stand as an atheist married to a devout Christian so I'm very much aware of how very different peoples' belief systems can be. One person's delusion is another's enlightenment. It is my belief that Folau is deeply deluded, it is his belief that he's truly enlightened. These days we're being programmed to reject certain divisive opinions while being forced to accept others.........anyway, let's just say I've been told I'm going to burn in hell for my lifestyle/beliefs but I've never felt offence at such comments, only pity. Nuff Said!!!
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Re: Israel Folau
by RDW Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:41 pm
Lots of high profile players have liked Billy's post, including more England players and other players round the world. Meanwhile the likes of Haskell are putting very strong posts in the counter arugment.
This could be come really messy very quickly.
This could be come really messy very quickly.
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:48 pm
RDW wrote:Lots of high profile players have liked Billy's post, including more England players and other players round the world. Meanwhile the likes of Haskell are putting very strong posts in the counter arugment.
This could be come really messy very quickly.
Hopefully leads to plenty of falling out in squads in the run up to the RWC, makes it easier for the Irish
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Re: Israel Folau
by RDW Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:52 pm
marty2086 wrote:RDW wrote:Lots of high profile players have liked Billy's post, including more England players and other players round the world. Meanwhile the likes of Haskell are putting very strong posts in the counter arugment.
This could be come really messy very quickly.
Hopefully leads to plenty of falling out in squads in the run up to the RWC, makes it easier for the Irish
Nah you've got the scots to get past first, and they're not stupid enough to get invovled!
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Re: Israel Folau
by marty2086 Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:56 pm
RDW wrote:marty2086 wrote:RDW wrote:Lots of high profile players have liked Billy's post, including more England players and other players round the world. Meanwhile the likes of Haskell are putting very strong posts in the counter arugment.
This could be come really messy very quickly.
Hopefully leads to plenty of falling out in squads in the run up to the RWC, makes it easier for the Irish
Nah you've got the scots to get past first, and they're not stupid enough to get invovled!
Sure they'll probably have recruited a load of SQ PIs by the time the WC rolls around anyway
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Re: Israel Folau
by RDW Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:58 pm
marty2086 wrote:RDW wrote:marty2086 wrote:RDW wrote:Lots of high profile players have liked Billy's post, including more England players and other players round the world. Meanwhile the likes of Haskell are putting very strong posts in the counter arugment.
This could be come really messy very quickly.
Hopefully leads to plenty of falling out in squads in the run up to the RWC, makes it easier for the Irish
Nah you've got the scots to get past first, and they're not stupid enough to get invovled!
Sure they'll probably have recruited a load of SQ PIs by the time the WC rolls around anyway
A few may become available soon!
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Re: Israel Folau
by Collapse2005 Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:14 pm
marty2086 wrote:RDW wrote:Lots of high profile players have liked Billy's post, including more England players and other players round the world. Meanwhile the likes of Haskell are putting very strong posts in the counter arugment.
This could be come really messy very quickly.
Hopefully leads to plenty of falling out in squads in the run up to the RWC, makes it easier for the Irish
Id imagine we have our own religious nuts. I think JVdF is quite religious for example.
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Re: Israel Folau
by Rugby Fan Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:26 pm
I've no doubt there are a number of Test players, and not just islanders, who believe homosexuality is a sin, do not support the ordination of gay clergy, and don't think gay marriage should be legal.
Ruan Pienaar attended the Christian Fellowship Church in Belfast, which isn't known for liberal views on homosexuality. Euan Murray, who refused to play on Sunday's, attends the Free Church of Scotland, which publicly opposes gay clergy and gay marriage. Neither player made any public statement of their beliefs, however.
I'm not a lawyer but I do wonder whether the Folau case raises a couple of legal points. There was footage circulating showing Folau speaking at his church, talking about his beliefs. In that case, his topic was the right way to celebrate Christmas and Easter. If he decided to talk about homosexuality, and footage was subsequently spread on social media, I wonder whether that would be a breach of his contract, especially if he hadn't uploaded the video himself.
If so, then Folau might claim that the contract constituted an unreasonable intrusion into his private life. If not, the Folau might argue the social media ban was meaningless, since it would not be about the public awareness of his beliefs.
In short, there are plenty pf rugby players with religious views on homosexuality which mirror Folau's but they are happy to keep them private, or at least out of the public eye. However, Folau might regard preaching the gospel as his religious duty, which would raise the question of what limits an employment contract can legally place on that duty.
Ruan Pienaar attended the Christian Fellowship Church in Belfast, which isn't known for liberal views on homosexuality. Euan Murray, who refused to play on Sunday's, attends the Free Church of Scotland, which publicly opposes gay clergy and gay marriage. Neither player made any public statement of their beliefs, however.
I'm not a lawyer but I do wonder whether the Folau case raises a couple of legal points. There was footage circulating showing Folau speaking at his church, talking about his beliefs. In that case, his topic was the right way to celebrate Christmas and Easter. If he decided to talk about homosexuality, and footage was subsequently spread on social media, I wonder whether that would be a breach of his contract, especially if he hadn't uploaded the video himself.
If so, then Folau might claim that the contract constituted an unreasonable intrusion into his private life. If not, the Folau might argue the social media ban was meaningless, since it would not be about the public awareness of his beliefs.
In short, there are plenty pf rugby players with religious views on homosexuality which mirror Folau's but they are happy to keep them private, or at least out of the public eye. However, Folau might regard preaching the gospel as his religious duty, which would raise the question of what limits an employment contract can legally place on that duty.
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