England World Cup Warm Ups

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England Wales 11th August
Wales England 17th August
England Ireland 24th August
England Italy 6th September.

Squad for the world cup is due 2nd September so theres a chance the 1st 3 could be used for selection purposes and likely to see some combos not considered 1st choice.

BBC saving me typing:

England: Daly; McConnochie, Slade, Francis, Watson; Ford, Heinz; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Cole, Launchbury, Ewels, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Singleton, Marler, Williams, Kruis, Ludlam, Youngs, Marchant, Cokanasiga.

Wales: L Williams; North, J Davies, Parkes, Adams; Anscombe, G Davies; Smith, Owens, Francis, Beard, Jones, Wainwright, Tipuric, Moriarty.

Replacements: Dee, Jones, Lewis, Ball, Shingler, T Williams, Biggar, Watkin.

I've never understood the penchant for coaches at all levels to beast players mid season or in normal training sessions. The number of injuries caused during training sessions I have seen have often been worst than games. The games themselves are ample physical conditioning for the body to cope with. International camps surely should assume a basic level of fitness that needs to be demonstrated in session one with those not fit enough sent home as they haven't been looking after themselves. This will dramatically increase time on other areas, reduce physical stress, help bodies recover and be fresh. If players are taking pills just to get by like kieren myall suggests then surely this should be a very clear message.

Rugby Fan wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:We're all passionate fans and get wrapped up in the competitiveness of the game, so for me this was a thought provoking read

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/19/kearnan-myall-england-players-mental-health-training-camp

That's the second time this week I've seen ex players talk about how amateur a lot of the coaching is from coaches who grew up in the amateur game and still carry all that (out of date) ethos with them.

What was the first?

On House of Rugby, Haskell, Flannery and Robshaw all mention very amateur coaching at some clubs and Int level with too much focus on beating players up and over training them just "because we've always done it".

Could that be a dig at Jones?

No, it wasn't. Haskell and Robshaw couldn't speak highly enough of Jones. They both praised his man management, saying he was very good at working out how to motivate players. They also rate Borthwick.

Thats interesting, as we keep hearing how hard they are smashed in England camps and the injuries coming out.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thats interesting, as we keep hearing how hard they are smashed in England camps and the injuries coming out.

There's a big difference between training very hard to achieve a specific purpose, and being continually beasted because the coach doesn't have any better ideas. By all accounts, Eddie's training is done at test match or higher intensity, with an associated risk of injury, but they are also short, and focused on a defined goal. He's also reputedly very good at giving his players the right individual messages to motivate them.

The contrast is with old school, run 'em into the ground type training, where the coach just puts the players through an endless slog of training hard.

Can't help but think we look tired all the time, really hope Eddie has learnt some lessons from the past 6 nations.

The biggest lesson would be trust your bench

TightHEAD wrote:Can't help but think we look tired all the time, really hope Eddie has learnt some lessons from the past 6 nations.

I'd agree that we looked tired last weekend, just as Wales had the weekend previous.

But i'll always remember the 2015 warm up games when our boys looked absolutely dead on their feet. I distinctly remember all the players looked considerably leaner than they had done during the 6N, most of them too much so. Dan Cole almost looked like a Love Island contestant. I don't think it's any secret that Lancaster got the cardio conditioning totally wrong for that world cup.

TightHEAD wrote:Can't help but think we look tired all the time, really hope Eddie has learnt some lessons from the past 6 nations.

Bear in mind that this is the peak period for strength and conditioning - pretty much every team will still be in "preseason" mode and will not have tapered training. For most teams, they won't start to taper until two weeks before their first competitive game.

Which raises an interesting thought: because England have such an unusual pool stage, with the easier games up front and the harder ones at the end, I suspect that Eddie might taper at least some of the players quite late. I think he might taper the starters for the Argentina and France games specifically for those games, a couple of weeks later than he tapers the players who will start the Tonga and US games. It's a bit of a risk - but it's exactly the sort of thing Eddie might do to have his players closer to peak fitness going in to the pointy end.

bluestonevedder wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Can't help but think we look tired all the time, really hope Eddie has learnt some lessons from the past 6 nations.

I'd agree that we looked tired last weekend, just as Wales had the weekend previous.

But i'll always remember the 2015 warm up games when our boys looked absolutely dead on their feet. I distinctly remember all the players looked considerably leaner than they had done during the 6N, most of them too much so. Dan Cole almost looked like a Love Island contestant. I don't think it's any secret that Lancaster got the cardio conditioning totally wrong for that world cup.

Dan Cole on Love Island I'd actually watch the show for that.

No, not with Dan Cole or even Courtney Lawes, not even with Maggie Alphonsi.

Rugby Fan wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:We're all passionate fans and get wrapped up in the competitiveness of the game, so for me this was a thought provoking read

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/19/kearnan-myall-england-players-mental-health-training-camp

That's the second time this week I've seen ex players talk about how amateur a lot of the coaching is from coaches who grew up in the amateur game and still carry all that (out of date) ethos with them.

What was the first?

On House of Rugby, Haskell, Flannery and Robshaw all mention very amateur coaching at some clubs and Int level with too much focus on beating players up and over training them just "because we've always done it".

Could that be a dig at Jones?

No, it wasn't. Haskell and Robshaw couldn't speak highly enough of Jones. They both praised his man management, saying he was very good at working out how to motivate players. They also rate Borthwick.

Yea they both massively praise him, John Wells not so much!

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:No, not with Dan Cole or even Courtney Lawes, not even with Maggie Alphonsi.

Dan Cole is a very funny guy. The preening peacocks would be ruthlessly mocked throughout, most of time without them realising. Be hilarious.

Game day then. Clean bill of health for all the players the #1 desired outcome, then the win would be nice too. Interested to see how the back row and midfield go.

Totally agree robbo277
That said it mist be approached as another game of rugby. If players and to a lesser degree coaches start thinking otherwise then things will go wrong.

Marchant to the bench in place of joseph so hes likely to get some game time today.

Youngs is back to annoying me. Rubbish kicking and now not knowing the laws.

Looked a very suspect arm to the head by May on 1st viewing. Not being checked. Hope it doesn't cost us a citing.

Can’t help thinking, that Ireland are on a backward slip. 6 Nations was the start of it, and I think they’re in for a woeful RWC. Going to get to knockout stages, probably as group winners and face Wales All Blacks or Boks. But can’t  to see them progressing further.

Peaked too soon, about 18 months too soon.

(Sorry misread the table... oops)

Think they'll fancy their chances should they play wales.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think they'll fancy their chances should they play wales.

Yep, just like they did inthe 6 Nations.

Well that underlines it.... Ireland are a spent force. England are schooling them.

No9 wrote:Well that underlines it.... Ireland are a spent force. England are schooling them.

2 weeks ago the same was said of another team. It's not the RWC yet.

7.5, are England the best team in the world in ‘your’ opinion? Surely they are, they are magnificent.

Yup.

I knew it, England are amazing, so good!

Uh oh, we have a French AR getting involved here

Bring out the roulette wheel

lostinwales wrote:

No9 wrote:Well that underlines it.... Ireland are a spent force. England are schooling them.

2 weeks ago the same was said of another team. It's not the RWC yet.

Disagree... Wales where woeful I agree, but England wasn’t much better. You won by 2 try’s and we gifted 2 try’s.

But this is the worst Ireland performance I’ve seen in decades. It’s like watching Ireland of the 70s.

This Ireland team would struggle to beat Argentina

ebop wrote:This Ireland team would struggle to beat Argentina

Play like this and I recon Japan will be targeting them to try and get second spot.

They dont have to play england in their group.

Scotland and Russia will fancy their chances against Ireland.

Peaked too soon, nice effort though.

Does help having a good Ref in charge.

Get Tuilagi off now....rap in cotton wool

No 7&1/2 wrote:They dont have to play england in their group.

Did I say they did.....

No9 wrote:

ebop wrote:This Ireland team would struggle to beat Argentina

Play like this and I recon Japan will be targeting them to try and get second spot.

Good call, Eddie Jones is now coaching England but Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown aren’t mugs. Ireland should be mindful of the risk if they turn up like wet rags.

No you didn't no 9. You seem to be assuming other teams will be able to put them under this much pressure. They won't.

2015 pressure?

Ireland's first game?

Assuming you mean england? Personally think it was more down to a change to trying to be pack focused rather than the expansive game we had through the 6ns of that year. You could say it was pressure that made Lancaster and the coaches go to that plan I suppose.

No 7&1/2 wrote:No you didn't no 9. You seem to be assuming other teams will be able to put them under this much pressure. They won't.

Think Ireland are putting themselves under pressure by playing so bad. England have just taking advantage of a really p!$$ poor Irish performance. Don’t think England have look good themselves, and they would look average against, All Blacks, Boks, Australia or even Wales.

England are ticking all the usual boxes of the last RWC. Win warmups ready to go out in the pools.

Hopefully not though, looking forward to knocking England out in the quarters.

THAT is what our first team can do!

Only poor performance was Ben Young’s, Heinz has upped our game.

Oh right. Fair enough then 9.

Vunipola hopefully coming off as a precaution.

Fingers tightly crossed.......

Banter aside..... how biased are the Sky commentary team. It’s embarrassing, and worse of all ....Barnes

Really hope all injured players make the WC

Crap game to be fair. Glorified training run. Ireland are better than that pathetic effort and score line.

Wow, Was not expecting a score line like that against Ireland.

Well played England a perfect all round game. Ireland, what happend today?

I thought when Ireland score that first try it would be a far tighter game than it was. Ireland was simply way off the mark today.

Well played England a great win today.

Well done England, didn’t see the match but read the live feed. Huge Scoreline...!

Is this the most points England have scored against Ire?land

maestegmafia wrote:Well done England, didn’t see the match but read the live feed. Huge Scoreline...!

Ref was good