Brexit

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Tea anyone?

The Benn Bill only ensures he has to go to the EU to ask for an extension if a deal can't be assured but this will come after he has already contactyed them all with a more detailed plea to veto the extension. All he needs his one extension and Benn's Bill means nothing.

And then we get a no deal Brexit, and he has to answer for the government's assurances that it wouldn't be a sh!tshow.

I've said it before, but I fail to see what political capital there is in proving the naysayers right.

Haven't the EU countries already voted to accept an extension request, done with the intention of stopping BoJo and his cronies from playing these very games

Think he's just hoping the muppet from Hungary will get a push in that direction from the east, but don't think any of the member states would go against the wishes of the collective

I think all member states are aware of the need to look after the Republic of Ireland, which didn't ask for any of this.

The Troubles were real.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Well here we are in October - it promises to be quite an eventful month. It's begun with the government denying it's proposing customs checks away from the Norther Ireland border - but the time for it to finally produce its actual proposals is a matter of days away now.

Boris Johnson's said repeatedly that there are plenty of feasible alternatives to the backstop - let's see them.

Rumours abounding that Cummings wants to try to pro-rogue again....

They are desperately worried about Brexit voters deserting because of the Extension that is almost certainly assured..

To be honest the Extension cannot be assured. All BJ needs to do is wait for a country to veto an extension then it is No Deal madness. Apparently, he has already been doing the rounds asking EU members country's leaders to veto an extension.

Colluding with a foreign power? Perish the thought!

I'd imagine that Donald Trump is on the phone to each EU state talking about foreign aid and them vetoing.

Completely separate conversations of course, just mentioned in the same call

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And then we get a no deal Brexit, and he has to answer for the government's assurances that it wouldn't be a sh!tshow.

I've said it before, but I fail to see what political capital there is in proving the naysayers right.

He isn't interested in the long term...

Win GE get five years and leave after three when he's bored..

All a game to the Muppet.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Well here we are in October - it promises to be quite an eventful month. It's begun with the government denying it's proposing customs checks away from the Norther Ireland border - but the time for it to finally produce its actual proposals is a matter of days away now.

Boris Johnson's said repeatedly that there are plenty of feasible alternatives to the backstop - let's see them.

Rumours abounding that Cummings wants to try to pro-rogue again....

They are desperately worried about Brexit voters deserting because of the Extension that is almost certainly assured..

To be honest the Extension cannot be assured. All BJ needs to do is wait for a country to veto an extension then it is No Deal madness. Apparently, he has already been doing the rounds asking EU members country's leaders to veto an extension.

They will VONC him before Oct 31st....

The EU wants a deal and their money.....Custom's Union etc etc..

They will grant an extension.

I don't know how I feel about Brexit at the moment

Obviously if it goes through the Welsh economy will be decimated. But it could help start the breakup of the UK which would be great

Steffan wrote:I don't know how I feel about Brexit at the moment

Obviously if it goes through the Welsh economy will be decimated. But it could help start the breakup of the UK which would be great

That's a great attitude, make sure everyone suffers so it helps nationalists.

Steffan wrote:I don't know how I feel about Brexit at the moment

Obviously if it goes through the Welsh economy will be decimated. But it could help start the breakup of the UK which would be great

It Must Be Love wrote:

Steffan wrote:I don't know how I feel about Brexit at the moment

Obviously if it goes through the Welsh economy will be decimated. But it could help start the breakup of the UK which would be great

That's a great attitude, make sure everyone suffers so it helps nationalists.

He's not saying he wants Brexit to happen. Neither Plaid nor the SNP want it to happen at all. He's just pointing out that there would likely be consequences to the union from Brexit, particularly a hard Brexit, and it's really something that Brexiter unionists don't seem to care. As Queen almost sang, it's a kind of madness.

The only party at Westminster that wants to 'make sure everyone suffers so it helps nationalists' is the Conservatives.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

Steffan wrote:I don't know how I feel about Brexit at the moment

Obviously if it goes through the Welsh economy will be decimated. But it could help start the breakup of the UK which would be great

That's a great attitude, make sure everyone suffers so it helps nationalists.

He's not saying he wants Brexit to happen. Neither Plaid nor the SNP want it to happen at all. He's just pointing out that there would likely be consequences to the union from Brexit, particularly a hard Brexit, and it's really something that Brexiter unionists don't seem to care. As Queen almost sang, it's a kind of madness.

The only party at Westminster that wants to 'make sure everyone suffers so it helps nationalists' is the Conservatives.

He's expressed an actual positive (for him) benefit of Brexit that could realistically be achieved. This is no mean feat.

Quite!

Just about to go in to a recession and Johnson is going to be chucking money around like confetti with his promises....(Too much for journalists to ask where it is coming from though !!)

So much for this rabble of a Party being known as the fiscally competent one..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Just about to go in to a recession and Johnson is going to be chucking money around like confetti with his promises....(Too much for journalists to ask where it is coming from though !!)

So much for this rabble of a Party being known as the fiscally competent one..

Gave you a green bar...  

I can understand the need for some stimulus when the recession starts to pinch but I'm not sure "buses" will be a core part of the post Brexit success story. It was a very strange speech - sort of like one of those embarrassing wedding speeches one might hear... and you can't believe what you're hearing.

Given the seriousness of the situation both the content and the tone of delivery of his apparent solution is alarmingly naive. Wish him well though...

It's all very well to talk 'big' and promise that if you back him it will all be fine and rosy. I just can't take the man seriously. What is the cost of these proposals v Labour's alternative approach? Which one has maximum short/medium/long term benefits and minimal negative impact on the people's jobs, health, education, security, etc? I'll keep saying it - the UK needs/deserves better than this bumbling cartoon character.

It needs better than an electorate that voted to change a relatively prosperous status quo without understanding what membership of the EU means, on what terms we would be giving up that membership and the implications.

The government has laid out its latest request for unicorns and flying pigs

It still doesn't seem to have dawned on the goverment that the EU is under no obligation to compromise the integrity of the single market and customs union to accommodate a member state that's decided to leave. Nor is it the responsibility of anyone other than the UK to come up with a solution the border issue, given that the Republic of Ireland didn't ask for Brexit and Northern Ireland voted against it.

Leaving the EU has consequences. These are our problems to solve. This was our bright idea.

From Nick Eardley, BBC political correspondent:

CONFIRMED: Government intend to prorogue Parliament next Tuesday - and hold Queen's Speech as planned on 14th.

29 days to D-Day....3 years since the vote and still no idea on how they will exit...

Really is a sham of a mockery of a mockery of a sham of a mockery..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:29 days to D-Day....3 years since the vote and still no idea on how they will exit...

Really is a sham of a mockery of a mockery of a sham of a mockery..

And when this all started we had May touting the Tories as 'strong and stable'.

Au contraire - it started with the option of the Tories or chaos with Ed Miliband

Ed would have had Brexit sorted and carved in stone by now.......

Stephen Barclay was on Sky News this morning, taking what the government is trying to portray as a reasonable position when it's actually pretty despicable.

When it was pointed out to him that the initial response of the Irish government was that these proposals for customs checks somewhere on or near the border were unacceptable, he said that if the UK was to leave without a deal, there'd be a much harder border between ROI and Northern Ireland. Now that's certainly true, but the only reason there needs to be any hardening of the border is because of the UK's decision to leave the EU. This is our fault! Don't we care? And how do we think the rest of the world sees this, with future trade deals in mind?

The UK is a falsehood though or should be renamed. It is not a 'united' Kingdom on Brexit. It is fractured. Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain in the EU whilst Wales and England voted to leave. A fairer way of running the Brexit Referendum would have been to only leave if all four countries within the UK voted to leave. The way things have panned out means its claim to be a 'union of equals' is far from the truth.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Stephen Barclay was on Sky News this morning, taking what the government is trying to portray as a reasonable position when it's actually pretty despicable.

When it was pointed out to him that the initial response of the Irish government was that these proposals for customs checks somewhere on or near the border were unacceptable, he said that if the UK was to leave without a deal, there'd be a much harder border between ROI and Northern Ireland. Now that's certainly true, but the only reason there needs to be any hardening of the border is because of the UK's decision to leave the EU. This is our fault! Don't we care? And how do we think the rest of the world sees this, with future trade deals in mind?

I have heard that the new proposals were sent direct to the heads of governments of 26 of the EU nations. The one that missed out was of course Ireland. I am not seeing anybody bar the usual nutters claim that these proposals are remotely serious.

There are 50m people in England and 5 million in Scotland...

Yougov poll...Do you think Britain was right or wrong to leave the EU ?

Right 40%
Wrong 49%
Don't know 11%....

Sobering to know that the 11% of air-heads will probably decide the next GE..

I’d fully support the Scots pushing for independence on the back of this, if only it wasn’t that the pot maybe doesn’t need stirring further right now.

Can't we convince the Brexiteer yokels that they're best off seceding from the UK to Unicornland or something?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yougov poll...Do you think Britain was right or wrong to leave the EU ?

Right 40%
Wrong 49%
Don't know 11%....

Sobering to know that the 11% of air-heads will probably decide the next GE..

I think 'don't know' is a valid response given we haven't left yet!

BamBam wrote:Can't we convince the Brexiteer yokels that they're best off seceding from the UK to Unicornland or something?

Surely Rees-Mogg owns enough land to fit them all. They could all move there and we would happily grant them independence from both us and the EU.

They get to worry about just themselves, make their own rules and decide who can enter. The rest of us can continue to worry and feel a sense of responsibility about more than just what's on our own doorstep.

Everybody wins

Here we go - from the European Parliament's Brexit Steering Group:

"While we remain open to workable, legally operable and serious solutions, the UK’s proposals fall short and represent a significant movement away from joint commitments and objectives."

Afro wrote:

BamBam wrote:Can't we convince the Brexiteer yokels that they're best off seceding from the UK to Unicornland or something?

Surely Rees-Mogg owns enough land to fit them all. They could all move there and we would happily grant them independence from both us and the EU.

They get to worry about just themselves, make their own rules and decide who can enter. The rest of us can continue to worry and feel a sense of responsibility about more than just what's on our own doorstep.

Everybody wins

I'd vote for it

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Here we go - from the European Parliament's Brexit Steering Group:

"While we remain open to workable, legally operable and serious solutions, the UK’s proposals fall short and represent a significant movement away from joint commitments and objectives."

In other news, bears have reportedly been seen defecating in woodland areas, and Pope Francis has shockingly confirmed that he is Catholic

BamBam wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Here we go - from the European Parliament's Brexit Steering Group:

"While we remain open to workable, legally operable and serious solutions, the UK’s proposals fall short and represent a significant movement away from joint commitments and objectives."

In other news, bears have reportedly been seen defecating in woodland areas, and Pope Francis has shockingly confirmed that he is Catholic

I don't think any of us could have seen that coming.

What do we make of this?

'A senior Downing Street source said: "The government will comply with the Benn Act, which only imposes a very specific narrow duty concerning Parliament's letter requesting a delay - drafted by an unknown subset of MPs and pro-EU campaigners - and which can be interpreted in different ways.

"But the government is not prevented by the Act from doing other things that cause no delay, including other communications, private and public.

"People will have to wait to see how this is reconciled. The government is making its true position on delay known privately in Europe and this will become public soon."'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49936352

Is it possible, or likely, that the goverment has found a loophole that no one's thought of?

TwisT wrote:I have been hovering over this board for a while now so I thought I would contribute.

My main concern with having another referendum is I still there would be a definitive answer and the worst possible outcome would be a 52/48 split for Remain.

Obviously I get what you lot are saying concerning the questions would be different for a second referendum (Deal, No Deal, Remain), and for that reason it could be a 25/25/50 split.

Being concerned about the outcome of the referendum should not be a reason not to have it at all. But do you lot feel a small Remain win in a 2nd referendum could actually have more dramatic consequences to the UK then leaving the EU without a deal?

This kind of questions split on another referendum would never be allowable as it would split the 'leave' vote, whereas there's only a single 'remain' option.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And then we get a no deal Brexit, and he has to answer for the government's assurances that it wouldn't be a sh!tshow.

I've said it before, but I fail to see what political capital there is in proving the naysayers right.

He isn't interested in the long term...

Win GE get five years and leave after three when he's bored..

All a game to the Muppet.

Yep, and he can tick the 'Been a UK Prime Minister' box on his CV, which is what he's always wanted.

Steffan wrote:I don't know how I feel about Brexit at the moment

Obviously if it goes through the Welsh economy will be decimated. But it could help start the breakup of the UK which would be great

In what way, exactly, would it be great? I'm really interested...

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I’d fully support the Scots pushing for independence on the back of this, if only it wasn’t that the pot maybe doesn’t need stirring further right now.

Despite my philosophical despair at the apparent drive to fragment the UK and leave the EU, I'm more and more convinced that the UK can go **** itself TBH. Best case, let it continue to exist with everything but full independence for Scotland, Wales and N.I. Let them have the full responsibility for their own local economies, raising taxes, health care, education etc etc. Let them explain to their own electorates how they're going to do it and remove the convenient excuse of blaming Westminster. Maybe just leave defence and a few other issues as a UK-wide issue? Scotland rejected independence in 2014, but the hypocrisy of then returning almost universal SNP MPs in 2015 is enough to make me . Just **** off.
England can have its own Parliament as well - wouldn't mind betting that the lack of such played into Brexit outcome in England.

Shame we'd lose global influence and UN Security Council veto position etc, but we're an ex-empire power that simply hasn't realised it no longer has any clout anyway. Not long until we're the same as Greece, Italy, France, Spain or Portugal, for example.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:What do we make of this?

'A senior Downing Street source said: "The government will comply with the Benn Act, which only imposes a very specific narrow duty concerning Parliament's letter requesting a delay - drafted by an unknown subset of MPs and pro-EU campaigners - and which can be interpreted in different ways.

"But the government is not prevented by the Act from doing other things that cause no delay, including other communications, private and public.

"People will have to wait to see how this is reconciled. The government is making its true position on delay known privately in Europe and this will become public soon."'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49936352

Is it possible, or likely, that the goverment has found a loophole that no one's thought of?

Nope. They're asking one of the E27 to veto an extension request.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I’d fully support the Scots pushing for independence on the back of this, if only it wasn’t that the pot maybe doesn’t need stirring further right now.

Despite my philosophical despair at the apparent drive to fragment the UK and leave the EU, I'm more and more convinced that the UK can go **** itself TBH. Best case, let it continue to exist with everything but full independence for Scotland, Wales and N.I. Let them have the full responsibility for their own local economies, raising taxes, health care, education etc etc. Let them explain to their own electorates how they're going to do it and remove the convenient excuse of blaming Westminster. Maybe just leave defence and a few other issues as a UK-wide issue? Scotland rejected independence in 2014, but the hypocrisy of then returning almost universal SNP MPs in 2015 is enough to make me . Just **** off.
England can have its own Parliament as well - wouldn't mind betting that the lack of such played into Brexit outcome in England.

Shame we'd lose global influence and UN Security Council veto position etc, but we're an ex-empire power that simply hasn't realised it no longer has any clout anyway. Not long until we're the same as Greece, Italy, France, Spain or Portugal, for example.

There are many, many Scots out there who feel robbed and cheated right now. They are pro-EU and voted No in 2014 as Bitter (sorry some people will cry for me using that term)...Better Together told them it was the only way to remain in the EU and now look where we are. It is such a massive issue it totally negates how people voted in 2014. Ask any MP up and down the UK and they will all tell you EU membership is the biggest political issue this country has faced since the Second World War so it is not a non-issue. And before you get me started there were a bucket load of other promises not kept by Better Together.

You can have the sick bucket after me as I need it just now.

Love that clip with Granny calling Johnson a toe rag...

Brenda from Bristol can retire now..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Love that clip with Granny calling Johnson a toe rag...

Brenda from Bristol can retire now..

I found out this morning what a toe rag is - and it should be 'tow rag', as apparently it's the piece of material sailors used to wipe their arses, which was then towed in the sea behind the ship to clean it for the next user.

EDIT: a Google search reveals a few other theories, but I like this one!

Good idea! Maybe should be brought back to help save the Planet!

She actually called him a "filthy piece of toe (tow) rag), which if we go by LP's explanation, means he's one that hasn't yet been towed through the sea!

Even more apt

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I’d fully support the Scots pushing for independence on the back of this, if only it wasn’t that the pot maybe doesn’t need stirring further right now.

Despite my philosophical despair at the apparent drive to fragment the UK and leave the EU, I'm more and more convinced that the UK can go **** itself TBH. Best case, let it continue to exist with everything but full independence for Scotland, Wales and N.I. Let them have the full responsibility for their own local economies, raising taxes, health care, education etc etc. Let them explain to their own electorates how they're going to do it and remove the convenient excuse of blaming Westminster. Maybe just leave defence and a few other issues as a UK-wide issue? Scotland rejected independence in 2014, but the hypocrisy of then returning almost universal SNP MPs in 2015 is enough to make me . Just **** off.
England can have its own Parliament as well - wouldn't mind betting that the lack of such played into Brexit outcome in England.

Shame we'd lose global influence and UN Security Council veto position etc, but we're an ex-empire power that simply hasn't realised it no longer has any clout anyway. Not long until we're the same as Greece, Italy, France, Spain or Portugal, for example.

There are many, many Scots out there who feel robbed and cheated right now. They are pro-EU and voted No in 2014 as Bitter (sorry some people will cry for me using that term)...Better Together told them it was the only way to remain in the EU and now look where we are. It is such a massive issue it totally negates how people voted in 2014. Ask any MP up and down the UK and they will all tell you EU membership is the biggest political issue this country has faced since the Second World War so it is not a non-issue. And before you get me started there were a bucket load of other promises not kept by Better Together.

You can have the sick bucket after me as I need it just now.

I don't think I implied Brexit was any sort of non-issue. I simply don't give a damn anymore. Go: have your second referendum and independence. Actually take responsibility and stop blaming someone else. I'm afraid I don't give a scheisse anymore. Take the Welsh and NI with you while you're at it...