Leicester Tigers 2019-20

by **LondonTiger** Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

September
13th Misc - Premiership Sevens, Pool Fixtures
14th Misc - Premiership Sevens, KO Fixtures
21st 15:00 - Worcester (a), Premiership Cup
27th 19:45 - Exeter (h), Premiership Cup

October
5th 15:00 - Bath (a), Premiership Cup
12th 15:00 - Northampton (h), Premiership Cup
19th 15:00 - Worcester (a), Gallagher Premiership
27th 15:00 - Saracens (h), Gallagher Premiership

November
2nd 15:00 - Gloucester (h), Gallagher Premiership
10th 15:00 - London Irish (a), Gallagher Premiership
16th 15:00 - Pau (h), Challenge Cup
23rd 20:00 - Cardiff (a), Challenge Cup
30th 15:00 - Northampton (a), Gallagher Premiership

December
7th 15:00 - Calvisano (h), Challenge Cup
14th 13:30 - Calvisano (a), Challenge Cup
21st 15:00 - Exeter (h), Gallagher Premiership
28th 16:30 - Harlequins (a - Twickenham), Gallagher Premiership

January
4th 15:00 - Bristol (h), Gallagher Premiership
12th 15:15 - Cardiff (h), Challenge Cup
17/18/19 - Pau (a), Challenge Cup
24/25/26 - Bath (a), Gallagher Premiership

February
14/15/16 - Wasps (h), Gallagher Premiership
21/21/23 - Sale (a), Gallagher Premiership
28/29/01 - Worcester (h), Gallagher Premiership

March
6/7/8 - Saracens (a), Gallagher Premiership
20/21/22 - Exeter (a), Gallagher Premiership
27/28/29 - Beth (h), Gallagher Premiership

April
3/4/5 - Castres (h), Challenge Cup 1/4 Final
10/11/12 - London Irish (h), Gallagher Premiership
17/18/19 - Gloucester (a), Gallagher Premiership
24/25/26 - Sale (h), Gallagher Premiership

May
8/9/10 - Wasps (a), Gallagher Premiership
15/16/17 - Northampton (h), Gallagher Premiership
29/30/31 - Bristol (a), Gallagher Premiership

June
5/6/7 - Harlequins (h), Gallagher Premiership

Squad & Coaching Team

Head Coach: Geordan Murphy
Forwards Coach: Mark Bakewell
Attack Coach: Mike Ford
Defence Coach: Phil Blake
Scrum Coach: Boris Stankovich
Senior Development coach: Brett Deacon
Team Manager: Teresa Carrington

First Team Squad:
Props (8): Greg Bateman, Dan Cole, Gaston Cortes, Ellis Genge, Facundo Gigena, Joe Heyes, Owen Hills, Nephi Leatigaga
Hookers (5): Charlie Clare, Jake Kerr, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Jimmy Stevens, Tom Youngs
Second Row (4): Calum Green, Tomas Lavanini, Will Spencer, Harry Wells
Back Row (8): Jordan Coghlan, Dave Denston, Sione Kalamafoni, Sam Lewis, Hanro Liebenberg, Tommy Reffell, Jordan Taufua, Guy Thompson
Half Backs: (8)Sam Harrison, Harry Simmons, Ben White, Ben Youngs, George Ford, Tom Hardwicke, Johnny McPhillips, Noel Reid
Outside Backs (13): Sam Aspland-Robinson, Kyle Eastmond, Andy Forsyth, Jonah Holmes, Jonny May, Jordan Olowofela, Jaco Taute, Joe Thomas, Adam Thompstone, Manu Tuilagi, Telusa Veainu, EW Viljoen, George Worth

Development Squad:
Props (3): Osman Dimen, Keston Lines, James Whitcombe
Hookers (0):
Second Row (3): Cameron Jordan, Tom Manz, George Martin
Back Row (5): Ollie Ashwoth, Sam Eveleigh, Taylor Gough, Henri Lavin, Thom Smith
Half Backs (3): Jonny Law, Jack van Poortvliet, Sam Costelow
Outside Backs (4): Joe Browning, Kyran Bungaroo, Leo Gilliland, Freddie Steward

by king_carlos Sat 18 Jan 2020, 4:56 pm

Agree on Simmons. Only natural that Harry will look rusty though. Given time I think White and Simmons will both be excellent players so I'm delighted the club have shown faith by having three scrum-halves in the squad now Shazam has departed. In recent years an average loan signing may well have been made in the same situation. JvP and Law coming through look promising as well.

Reid is an odd one. I really think he's an excellent club player but hasn't clicked at Tigers yet. This is his second club so it may just be acclimatising. Leinster have such ingrained systems in place that Tigers frequent lack of shape in the backs will be a shock to the system. When Ford plays flat I think he looks better, taking the ball closer to the line and making decisions instinctively. When standing deeper, taking passes passes behind a forward pod he looks a touch lost though.

Perhaps that's why Eastmond was backed recently as Hardwick does stand deeper than Ford, Eastmond looks more comfortable acting as the second playmaker taking the ball out the back. I've been critical of Eastmond at Tigers but he was good in his last two games.

Whilst Reid has struggled in attack I feel he's growing in defence as the systems improve. I certainly rate him higher defensively than Eastmond.

by Khouli Khan Mon 20 Jan 2020, 6:44 am

If you'd have told me before the season that tigers would qualify as fourth seeds in the Challenge Cup, i'd have taken it. Home game is more than winnable.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 20 Jan 2020, 9:04 am

So, with the threat of relegation lifted, what should we be looking for from the rest of the season?

I would like us to go all guns blazing come spring in the Challenge Cup. Meanwhile I want us to win every home game and secure decent performances away.

by Khouli Khan Mon 20 Jan 2020, 9:06 am

LondonTiger wrote:So, with the threat of relegation lifted, what should we be looking for from the rest of the season?

I would like us to go all guns blazing come spring in the Challenge Cup. Meanwhile I want us to win every home game and secure decent performances away.

To finish above London Irish.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 20 Jan 2020, 9:33 am

Khouli Khan wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:So, with the threat of relegation lifted, what should we be looking for from the rest of the season?

I would like us to go all guns blazing come spring in the Challenge Cup. Meanwhile I want us to win every home game and secure decent performances away.

To finish above London Irish.

I would say we should be aiming to finish above LI, Wasps, Worcester and Bath. Perhaps Quins too.

by Khouli Khan Mon 20 Jan 2020, 9:48 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Khouli Khan wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:So, with the threat of relegation lifted, what should we be looking for from the rest of the season?

I would like us to go all guns blazing come spring in the Challenge Cup. Meanwhile I want us to win every home game and secure decent performances away.

To finish above London Irish.

I would say we should be aiming to finish above LI, Wasps, Worcester and Bath. Perhaps Quins too.

Yes, but we have to be realistic too. Whistle

by formerly known as Sam Mon 20 Jan 2020, 10:01 am

Borthwick confirmed as leaving England at the end of the season. New skills coach joins England in November. Unsure when the determine the season to be over. Is that post 6N or post the summer tour? No confirmation from Tigers yet.

I think in terms of this season we should target the home games and Europe. Experiment a little away from home to help embed the younger players develop them on. When I say experiment I mean two or three young player getting game time in the 23 when normally they wouldn't. The 6N period will help with this as well.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 21 Jan 2020, 9:02 am

Steve Borthwick is to join Leicester Tigers as head coach with Geordan Murphy appointed to the role of director of rugby.

Forwards coach to the England squad that reached the Rugby World Cup Final in 2019 after a highly decorated playing career with club and country, Borthwick is now skills coach with the national set-up under Eddie Jones preparing for the 2020 Six Nations and will join Tigers at the end of his international commitments.

Murphy’s move into the director of rugby role follows a year as head coach at the club where he won eight Premiership titles and back-to-back European Cups as a player.

Tigers chairman Peter Tom CBE said: “The appointment of Steve Borthwick as head coach and Geordan Murphy in the role of director of rugby provides an exciting combination of leadership, expertise and experience to drive the club forward in its desire to challenge for major honours again.

“The club has enjoyed many of its greatest successes with a blend of the Tigers DNA alongside fresh, innovative ideas from outside, both among the players and the coaching staff, and we look forward to Geordan and Steve leading that in their respective new roles.

“At the end of last season Pat Howard was commissioned to conduct a detailed review of operations at the club and one of the key findings was the need for stability in the coaching and playing structures to encourage development in line with the high standards and expectations of its Board, management, players and supporters.

“Geordan’s new role provides that stability as he knows the Tigers as well as anyone and has played a key part in the club’s successes, working with many world-class players and staff in his time here.

“He appreciates what makes the Leicester Tigers the club it is and will continue to drive those requirements and standards within the playing squad and backroom team.”

Welcoming former England captain Borthwick to the club, he added: “We are delighted to confirm that Steve will be joining us as head coach. He is regarded among the brightest and most astute young coaches in the game and he played a prominent part in the coaching team which led England to the Rugby World Cup Final last year.

“He has a wealth of knowledge and experience at the very highest level as player and now as a coach, and has a clear vision of where he wants to take the team. We look forward to welcoming him on board.”

Borthwick said: “The last four-and-a-half years working with the England team has been an incredible journey. I have worked with some brilliant players and staff. In particular I would like thank Eddie Jones. To have worked with one the greatest head coaches in the world for so long has been an unbelievable experience.

“I am delighted to be joining Leicester Tigers as head coach. The Tigers have such a long and successful history, and are one of the greatest rugby clubs in the game. Welford Road, with the special atmosphere created by the club's incredible supporters roaring their team forward, is a very special place to be.

“We must now work to build upon that great history, and create our future to get this club to the top of European rugby. It is a brilliant challenge and I am excited to start working with the players and everybody associated with the team.

“Geordan provides a link with the club’s greatest teams and we will be working together to ensure that there are many successful days ahead for this club, and for our supporters to enjoy."

Murphy’s playing career with the club began in 1997 and he joined the coaching staff in 2013, becoming head coach during the early part of the 2018/19 season.

He said: “The players and staff have all been working incredibly hard to get the club back on a pathway to where we all want to be, at the top of the professional game.

“We have been building a lot of the foundations around recruitment and retention of the playing squad and the success of our academy structure, and we look forward to Steve’s arrival to drive the playing squad onwards.

“Steve is a world-class coach with the skills and determination to get the best out of everyone around him.”

by **LondonTiger** Tue 21 Jan 2020, 9:05 am

I wonder how the responsibilities will be split. Borthwick fully responsible for First Team matters including selection - Murphy overseeing the whole player base? What about recruitment and contracts?

by Gooseberry Tue 21 Jan 2020, 9:11 am

LondonTiger wrote: What about recruitment and contracts?

Would you trust anyone from Saracens with that job Laugh

by **LondonTiger** Tue 21 Jan 2020, 9:21 am

Gooseberry wrote:
LondonTiger wrote: What about recruitment and contracts?

Would you trust anyone from Saracens with that job

Fair point. And Bath before that and we know about them Very Happy

Of course would you trust the former co-owner of an Italian restaurant?

by Welly Tue 21 Jan 2020, 9:42 am

McGinty is in charge of Recruitment and contracts.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 21 Jan 2020, 10:49 am

Welly wrote: McGinty is in charge of Recruitment and contracts.

What is the input from coaching staff though. Surely at the least the DoR/HC says what is needed and should approve whoever McGinty comes up with?

by Gooseberry Tue 21 Jan 2020, 1:23 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Welly wrote: McGinty is in charge of Recruitment and contracts.

What is the input from coaching staff though. Surely at the least the DoR/HC says what is needed and should approve whoever McGinty comes up with?

The DoR will have a big say in the players he wants and general direction and make up of the squad, but Murphy isn't going to do the contract negotiations and check the numbers (this is not a cheap racist Irish joke just reality, hes an ex player not a lawyer or accountant). Thats kind of what the DoR role is largely concerned with.
The coach would pretty much just deal with whoevers chucked infront of him and look to get the best from them. Obviously he will have his opinions of who he rates or doesnt and pass up some ideas for types to improve the squad but mostly hes just working with the materials given.

Im a little concerned about Muprhy as a DoR tbh, based on his poor record with Tiger so far promoting him seems a touch generous. But he does understand the current players and gives some continuity to the vision of the shape of the squad going forward. Its also better than having someone entirely new come in and clear the decks again, whilst theres players who need to go Murphy is better placed to know who they are and who maybe can deliver more in a more positive team environment. He also understands the club culture and board politics better than an outsider would and at least will have a clear focus rather than just sticking fingers in holes.

Borthwick as a head coach focused solely on week to week team matters makes absolute sense. Hes very highly rated as a technician and has good track record of developing players with Saracens and England. Hes the sort of figure who will have automatic respect from the dressing room.

by Welly Tue 21 Jan 2020, 1:46 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Welly wrote: McGinty is in charge of Recruitment and contracts.

What is the input from coaching staff though. Surely at the least the DoR/HC says what is needed and should approve whoever McGinty comes up with?

Ideal world.
Mruphy and Borthwick will tell McGinity who or what type of players they want. McGinity will scout and give a list of names that will 1. fit the criteria, 2. fit the cap.

Basically what Ged Glynn did but McGinity is actual experienced at this stuff.

The way I see it
Borthwick - Technical
Murphy - Emotional
McGinity - Contracts

Say what you want about Murphy form but not many players seem to be keen to leave despite it, how we signed Taufua and Lavanini despite french club being after them. The guy sells the club.
It's similar to Scotty Robertson and Cullen at crusaders and Leinster although money does talk most players like to play for coaches who live for the club and unlike Cockers was, Murphy is more relaxed in his management.

also wouldn't be surprised if Murphy has more involvement with the backs.

by king_carlos Tue 21 Jan 2020, 4:31 pm

Welly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Welly wrote: McGinty is in charge of Recruitment and contracts.

What is the input from coaching staff though. Surely at the least the DoR/HC says what is needed and should approve whoever McGinty comes up with?

Ideal world.
Mruphy and Borthwick will tell McGinity who or what type of players they want. McGinity will scout and give a list of names that will 1. fit the criteria, 2. fit the cap.

Basically what Ged Glynn did but McGinity is actual experienced at this stuff.

The way I see it
Borthwick - Technical
Murphy - Emotional
McGinity - Contracts

Say what you want about Murphy form but not many players seem to be keen to leave despite it, how we signed Taufua and Lavanini despite french club being after them. The guy sells the club.
It's similar to Scotty Robertson and Cullen at crusaders and Leinster although money does talk most players like to play for coaches who live for the club and unlike Cockers was, Murphy is more relaxed in his management.

also wouldn't be surprised if Murphy has more involvement with the backs.

My thoughts too. Murphy is clearly very liked by the players but lacks the on-field coaching experience. Hopefully the partnership with Borthwick allows Geordie to concentrate on what he's good at and Borthwick to do likewise.

McGinity has an excellent reputation in an area where Tigers were very poor for years. It feels like positive moves that make me excited for the clubs future once again.

Between Stanko and Borthwick we should be able to put together an outstanding set-piece to build the game plan around. Especially if the rumours of looking at another international class lock - Alemanno currently but Kruis is now on the market - are true.

I just hope we can tie Costelow and Reffell to long term contracts. Wayne Pivac is clearly targeting Prem based WQP talents to increase his talent pool to pick from. Hopefully we can convince both of them that Tigers can give them a club and international future. Both are Welsh lads and I hope they play for Wales. They are also Tigers grads so I hope they stay at Welford Road as well.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 21 Jan 2020, 7:40 pm

Murphy to DOR makes perfect sense to me. Since he took over the off field side of things has been very good. Players being developed, young players given meaningful game time and being promoted to the first team. Culture developed. Working with McGinty to sign the right kind of players. The on field stuff has been creeping closer to looking good as well and hopefully Borthwick will take that on. Borthwick will get the advantage of what will effectively be a long pre season as we can't go down.

by king_carlos Tue 21 Jan 2020, 8:13 pm

I do wonder if McPhillips and Viljeon have long term futures at the club.

They are turning 23 and 25 this season respectively. Both are at an age where they will want to be playing more regularly and both could presumably pick up contracts elsewhere if they were to want releasing.

With Costelow coming through at 10, Steward at 15 and Hardwick an option in the centre they are being overtaken by the academy grads as well.

I was excited when McPhillips arrived but playing championship rugby and seeing Steward/Costelow picked ahead of him for the Cardiff away game won't be what he moved to Tigers for.

by bluestonevedder Wed 22 Jan 2020, 10:30 am

Viljeon hasn't really worked out as we intended has he? Mostly been running out with the development squad.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 22 Jan 2020, 11:00 am

Viljoen could still come good. He hasn't adapted as we would have liked but is still young and has plenty going for him. A diamond that might need some polishing.

McPhillips on the other hand was an odd signing and I don't think he'll be staying. He should be going to get regular rugby not playing development rugby and Championship rugby. It sounds like we wanted a goal kicking 15 that could also step in to 10 and hole McPhillips could do that but seemingly not. Perhaps Geordie was looking for the next Geordie.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 22 Jan 2020, 12:06 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:Viljeon hasn't really worked out as we intended has he? Mostly been running out with the development squad.

My view is tainted by that first home game against Saracens where he missed half his tackles and failed to find touch twice from penalties - both times taking the longer route to touch.

by bluestonevedder Wed 22 Jan 2020, 12:09 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:Viljeon hasn't really worked out as we intended has he? Mostly been running out with the development squad.

My view is tainted by that first home game against Saracens where he missed half his tackles and failed to find touch twice from penalties - both times taking the longer route to touch.

Same. Talk about a nightmare debut.

by king_carlos Wed 22 Jan 2020, 3:23 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:That is very true Carlos. Unless we are losing one I suppose we just won't need Hill. I think Hardwick Jnr has left the development squad though. Not idea why or where he's gone but he doesn't appear on the website and I can't recall him being in any of the development squads.

Robin Hardwick is still at school (Rugby) but listed as with us in the England U18s announcement.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/england-men-u18s-squad-for-october-development-camp

Hardwick is almost certain to come into the development squad next year I think. I believe he's final school year but maybe he's a year younger? He was getting picked ahead of Whitcombe for the England age grade at one point so perhaps his rapid development has thrown me!

Near certainties for the development squad from the school leavers this year I'd guess are:

Archie Vanes (hooker), Emeka Illione, Kit Smith, Ben Muncaster (all back row), Ollie Smith v2 (fullback/centre), Matt Potts (centre)

Jack Rowntree and Lynx Noumey are highly rated players but in a competitive position at prop. Noumey has just moved to loosehead so that's hard to call. I could see Rowntree and Hardwick both coming up.

Charlie Titcombe and Harry Glynn are highly rated 10s but it's another competitive position if Costelow re-signs.

Sam Edwards is the latest 9 of the production line but again tough to call with JvP and Law in year 1 as development squad members. Jack van Poortlviet is in the England U20 squad and growing as a player. One for the future there I reckon.

Will Bailey is a good young lock but Cam Jordan, George Martin and Tom Manz are currently in the development squad. The highly rated Bob Singer seems to be settling into the row rather than no 8 (having recently converted from tighthead after a growth spurt!) as well but he's a year below Bailey.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 22 Jan 2020, 3:30 pm

Hmm, some posts seem to have been deleted. Odd.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 22 Jan 2020, 3:36 pm

Unless Hardwick has left mid season it's odd he's not on the website but not surprising I suppose the media team have improved but still isn't great.

We do have a glut of good young talents. I wonder whether there is a time limit on them to breakthrough otherwise they risk being surpassed by the next batch. Cam Jordan for instance must be looking over his shoulder nervously knowing Manz and Martin have already got development contracts and Singher is getting very good reviews. If Jordan can't push on and start challenging for some more senior game time by the end of next season it'll be likely he'll be cut loose.

by king_carlos Wed 22 Jan 2020, 3:37 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Hmm, some posts seem to have been deleted. Odd.

I edited that one a few times due to phone typos if that's what you mean LT?

I copied and pasted the quote from the silly seasons thread over here to avoid derailing it with Tigers chat.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 22 Jan 2020, 3:39 pm

king_carlos wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Hmm, some posts seem to have been deleted. Odd.

I edited that one a few times due to phone typos if that's what you mean LT?

I copied and pasted the quote from the silly seasons thread over here to avoid derailing it with Tigers chat.

Aha - only just spotted that.

by king_carlos Wed 22 Jan 2020, 3:39 pm

Cornac Calnan was training with the academy all seasons but appeared on the squad list later than most if I remember correctly. Hopefully just an error on the page.

I remember Ricardo Brugnara jumping from senior squad to development squad and back again a few times according to the listings a few years back.

Sam Grahamslaw disappeared from the website before any official announcement that he'd signed with the SRU though.

Who knows!

by king_carlos Wed 22 Jan 2020, 3:41 pm

Ben Muncaster being tempted to the England U18s after appearing for the Scotland U16s is interesting. He's a very promising all action back rower who has played 6, 7 and 8 well.

by king_carlos Fri 24 Jan 2020, 3:20 pm

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/34895/george-ford-still-has-his-best-years-ahead-of-him-says-eastmond/

“We’ve got work to do here, I’m contracted beyond this season and I’m hoping to be a big part of what we do.

Eastmond in contract beyond this season according to the man himself.

Hopefully his form keeps improving and he stays fit. I've been frustrated by Eastmond at Tigers. He's had injury issues but his defence at times has been non existent and he's often compounded poor back play by shoveling **** ball in hand.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 24 Jan 2020, 3:26 pm

I agree Eastmond is a frustrating player to watch. He's more than capable of winning turnovers in defence and making things happen in attack. He's equally likely to go high and either concede a penalty or get bumped off or as you say shovel furious

ball. If he can stay fit for an extended period hopefully his form will remain good and he can find some rhythm and cut out the errors.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 24 Jan 2020, 3:29 pm

Also means our stable of centres are under contract for next season;

12. Eastmond, Reid, Worth
13. Manu, Taute, Viljoen, Thomas (I assume he signed a two year deal)

Add in Hardwick staying on and it's an area we probably won't look at so unless Lozowski fancies being considered a fullback we won't be going after him. Having said that he could make a great fullback. We have been linked with the EQ lad in France who's a 10/15.

by king_carlos Fri 24 Jan 2020, 3:53 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Also means our stable of centres are under contract for next season;

12. Eastmond, Reid, Worth
13. Manu, Taute, Viljoen, Thomas (I assume he signed a two year deal)

Add in Hardwick staying on and it's an area we probably won't look at so unless Lozowski fancies being considered a fullback we won't be going after him. Having said that he could make a great fullback. We have been linked with the EQ lad in France who's a 10/15.

Lozowski would fit into the squad well, I'd love to see Ford/Manu/Lozowski in a midfield together. If Eastmond is staying it will never fit the cap though. Given how much churn we've had a bit of stability might help as well. Finally see some familiarity built. I've been critical of Eastmond but he was much better in his last 2 starts.

I do wonder whether any/all of McPhillips, Thomas and Viljeon might be in discussion to leave via mutual consent. All three are at an age where they need first team game time to kick on.

Viljeon has talent but looked lost in several of his starts. I've wondered whether he'd be better working his way into Prem rugby on the wing rather than 13. He has pace but his decision making seemed poor, as was his defensive positioning and tackling. His canon of a boot should be a weapon. Hughes signing on loan suggests the coaches don't think so.

I'd be quite happy with us losing a few squad players this summer and signing 2-3 potential starters (hooker, lock, wing) then using the development squad for depth. There's little to be gained for either party with players in their mid-20s not playing much rugby.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 24 Jan 2020, 4:21 pm

I would imagine it would probably be all of Viljoen, Thomas and McPhillips in order to acquire Lozowski. A risk I'd certainly consider if it was up to me. The question is whether we are happy with the likes of Browning and Steward being ready to come in and play more games.

I think Lozowski could be an excellent 12 or 15 for us. At 12 our inside is often the option out the back linking with the wider backs. His skills would fit that well. We've always tended to have a creative fullback and Geordie does seem keen to have that again as McPhillips was considered at 15 initially. Lozowski certainly has the pace and skillset, some work under the high ball would be the icing on the cake and if he does want to play for England again could be his best way back in.

by Welly Sat 25 Jan 2020, 2:04 pm

Rob Hardwick I believe was kick out.

Lozowski would cost more than those 3 combined BTW.

Talking about the academy 9's with Youngs getting picked for England still we should have room for Edwards.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 25 Jan 2020, 2:48 pm

Hardwick kicked out? Is there a story there or is it a case of lacking general discipline?

The academy 9s should see plenty of action with White and Simmons now the understudies to Youngs. We'll need to rotate at least one other in with those three and Simmons doesn't have much luck with injuries.

Agreed Lozowski will be expensive and he will also have quite a few offers out there.

by king_carlos Sat 25 Jan 2020, 4:25 pm

Sounding like Sam Costelow is off... Bugger.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 25 Jan 2020, 4:59 pm

king_carlos wrote:Sounding like Sam Costelow is off... Bugger.

Rumours to Scarlets gaining momentum. Be a real shame but it'll be easier to get Patchell out the 10 shirt there than Ford out of the 10 shirt at Tigers.

by king_carlos Sat 25 Jan 2020, 5:42 pm

I completely understand Sam's view. I disagree with the plan that bringing players who will get professional exposure anyway into the regions will help Wales longer term, but that seems to be what Pivac and the WRU feel is the case.

It'll be a gut punch if Sam goes though. Following the academy setup closely I've watched the lad for a good few years now, had great hopes for him playing in the senior shirt. Not only is a brilliant talent but also a very fun player to watch given his all round skills.

I must admit that rumour put more of a dampener on things today than stodgy rugby for us at the Rec! A similarly disheartened feeling to hearing that Harry Thacker and Will Evans were off in recent seasons.

by king_carlos Mon 27 Jan 2020, 12:22 am

Walesonline reporting Costelow to Scarlets as a done deal. 2-year contract apparently.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:42 am

Borthwick cannot come soon enough - just for lineout coaching. Yet again it was a shambles this weekend and arguably cost us a rare away win.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:47 am

LondonTiger wrote:Borthwick cannot come soon enough - just for lineout coaching. Yet again it was a shambles this weekend and arguably cost us a rare away win.

I don't think you can argue it at all. When we actually set the rolling maul Bath were in reverse and conceding penalties. Had we not stuffed up quite so many, particularly the not straight, then we could have easily won that game. We nearly won the game even conceding territory and possession unnecessarily.

Borthwick will be here in a couple of months and it's just fingers crossed he'll provide that edge we are currently lacking.

by Khouli Khan Tue 28 Jan 2020, 7:27 am

LondonTiger wrote:Borthwick cannot come soon enough - just for lineout coaching. Yet again it was a shambles this weekend and arguably cost us a rare away win.

Like I said, finishing the season above London Irish should be the immediate goal, finishing above anybody else is pie in the sky.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:02 pm

Why are you having constant digs at Leicester. Who do you support ? Is this an aim at being funny?

by Khouli Khan Wed 29 Jan 2020, 6:35 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why are you having constant digs at Leicester. Who do you support ? Is this an aim at being funny?

What I write about the team I follow is none of your business. You're obsessed with my posts - are you stalking me? Do you fancy me? Do you want my phone number hunny?

by No 7&1/2 Wed 29 Jan 2020, 7:01 am

This is just weird.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:55 am

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7971233/England-stars-Jonny-Ben-Youngs-face-100-000-year-pay-cuts-remain-Leicester-Tigers.html

Not a reader of the Daily Heil but it is an interesting article. In line with the rumours that have come out of the club. If both do opt to stay that's two internationals retained with a £200k saving. That saving is probably essential after the new deals for Genge and Ford.

by king_carlos Thu 06 Feb 2020, 4:03 pm

Ford will be the marquee next season. He's rumoured to be on £450k currently and Manu circa £500-550k. So it's an increase of £50-100k in the cap there with Manu coming under the noose. Then Genge's increase on top of that.

It seems clear that McGinity is targeting the right areas IMO. Signing a loosehead and fly-half to replace the quality Tigers get from Genge and Ford will cost the same as they have signed for. Youngs meanwhile is I believe the second highest paid 9 in the league after Faf and not playing like it regularly. May is one of my favourite England players and has been blistering for Tigers in a poor backline but there are more quality wingers around (Nadolo and Ben Lam for starters) than 10s or LHs.

Youngs ---> Singleton
Polota-Nau ---> Moriarty/Earl/A starting 8
Spencer ---> Alemanno
McPhillips ---> Henry

Those could make sense with Tigers overpaying for forwards recently. If Nadolo is coming into the backs with Thompstone the only senior back he could potentially be replacing then savings will be needed in the forwards you'd presume. Kalamafoni and Thompson are both out of contract, neither will have as many suitors as when they last signed.

If Tigers do manage to sign a starting hooker, lock, 8 and winger then I will be delighted but have even more questions than I do already about recruitment over the previous 3 years!

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:14 pm

Youngs ---> Singleton
Polota-Nau ---> Moriarty/Earl/A starting 8
Spencer ---> Alemanno
McPhillips ---> Henry

That would be a good set of changes. It would only be better if we could somehow get Spencer to stay on a cheaper one year deal. The more quality we can get at lock the better. Jordan and Martin are on the way through but aren't quite ready yet. Green and Wells aren't the biggest units so currently we're reliant on Lavanini to add the engine room grunt and I'm not sure Alemmano will really be like for like.

If we can acquire Earl that would be the ideal long term replacement for Guy Thompson who at 33 hasn't got that many years left, especially with the way he plays.

by king_carlos Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:55 pm

I can take or leave Spencer to be honest. If he was willing to sign a lower contract then I get what your saying but Worcester wanting him makes that unlikely. Particularly with Fatialofas horrible injury.

I was really happy when he signed but he's flattered to deceive. Not a strong enough jumper to run the line out and not physical enough to impose himself as others do in the loose. I'd even take Anton Bresler over Spencer if Worcs are signing up both Kitch brothers and Spencer. Or look to the Currie Cup where Marvin Orie and Le Roux Roets were excellent last season. JD Shickerling is a brilliant lock just short of Springbok selection. Similar sort of standard player to Jacques du Plessis who has been a great signing for Montpellier.

Joseph Dweba could be a similar quality signing at hooker to Akker van der Merwe, Franco Marais and James Hanson elsewhere in the Prem.

Cam Jordan will be 21 next season so hopefully he comes up as I rate him highly. He's a physical guy as far as strong line out jumpers go. I'd be happy with Batley signing for longer as well as well.

With Polota-Nau, Youngs, Spencer, Thompson and Kalamafoni out of contract I think it's time for the club to make some tough decisions. Especially if guys like Singleton, Alemanno, Moriarty and Earl are on the market. Kruis and Nick Isiekwe also out of contract.

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